Pablo Kraus: When I stepped in, I didn't want to come and turn the company upside down and change what we're doing. We've done over the years limited editions with different artists. It is really frustrating, but that's why we have to hold on to our, I guess, integrity and authenticity and kind of show ourselves, warts and all.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to ADD to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail.
Nathan Bush: Here's your host, Bushy. Hello there and welcome back to another episode of Add to Cart. My name is Bushy joining you from the land of the terrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. Today's guest is someone who's been championing sustainable living long before it was cool. Pablo Kraus is the CEO of Eco Store and he has helped guide the company from its humble mail order roots and and into a household name. Kiwi born and family owned, eco store turned 30 last year and was one of the first brands to deliver truly sustainable products into the market. From a small mail order startup to an internationally recognized brand, Eco Stores Eco Friendly Products now line supermarket shelves in Australia, China, Japan and beyond. In fact, Eco you've probably scoped the brand's distinctive black and white branding in the aisles of your local Coles or Woolies, if not on your own bathroom or cleaning shelves. In this episode, Pablo and I discuss everything from Eco Stores successful sustainable journey to their recent partnership with Sesame street in Japan. Didn't see that one coming, hey. We'll also talk about how the company maintains its authenticity in an increasingly noisy and disingenuous space. We discuss how ecostore have embraced innovations like Sugar Plastic that was new for me and talk about their unique approach to Eco friendly packaging. Now before we get started, I want to invite you in to join my weekly e commerce newsletter. Every Tuesday morning I send out a snapshot of the latest industry insights as well as my opinion on a topic close to those in e commerce. As well as that, I'd love to invite you to join our campus community where we have over 150 e commerce professionals coming together to share resources, tips and commentary around what is happening in their day to day lives. Head on over to add to cart.comau to sign up to the newsletter and get involved in the campus community. As always, a big thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Deliver in person for making this episode possible. Now let's jump into my chat with Pablo. Pablo, welcome to Add to Cart.
Pablo Kraus: Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here.
[Voiceover]: Great to have you here. I was doing a little bit of research before we jumped on our call and I did like Pablo Krause Eco Store videos and searched on Google and one of the first videos that popped up was you and Cookie Monster, I think. And I was like,
Pablo Kraus: this is interesting.
[Voiceover]: It was unexpected. What's going on? And I hear you did a recent collaboration with Sesame Street.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, that's awesome. Actually that. That came up. I was actually up on a trip to Japan recently. We have a partner in Japan and they had collaborated as a larger business with Sesame street and Eco Store did a collaboration and we had a whole range of our products with Eco Store with Sesame street characters on it and it actually looked really awesome. So when I was in Japan, we had a. What do you call it? Like a visit with the Cookie with both. With Elmo and the Cookie Monster.
[Voiceover]: That's so cool. How did that partnership come about?
Pablo Kraus: They have. So our partners in Japan have a much larger sort of fashion retail business and they were collaborating on something else and then they saw the opportunity with Eco Store to actually bring different consumers in that wouldn't normally look at Eco Store. And it's just. It was amazing up there when they had the. The visit with the characters because there was women almost in tears meeting these like characters that were actually like just dress up characters. And it's just amazing. The pull of a brand or a character like that can have an emotional impact. So that was like. It seems to be going really successful and it's. It's just amazing. Like those collaborations how looks seems like an odd idea, but it actually can, you know, bring a whole new connection to people.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome.
[Voiceover]: And that's Japan only at the moment.
Pablo Kraus: It's Japan only at the moment. Yeah. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Cool. All right, well, let's take us back a bit. Can you give us the overview of Eco Store and the products that you're ranging how you're selling and where you're located at the moment?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, sure. So Eco store had its 30th birthday last year. We were one of the first brands ever to make sustainable products. And I guess in New Zealand and Australia. So interesting enough, we're like one of mail order business to start out. So shipping one arguably the heaviest consumer product, which is laundry powder, 4 kilos at a time around the country. So almost our origins are somewhat in E commerce as we've evolved and we are across supermarkets in New Zealand and Australia as well as export to China and Japan, our next biggest markets, and then predominantly through Southeast Asia. And we make A range of home and household and baby products. Anything that you kind of, you know, clean in your house to, you know, laundry liquid, dish liquid to body wash, shampoo, conditioner.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, amazing. All right, cool. And I think anyone who is unsure whether you've seen Eco Store, if you pause and you Google ecostor, bring up the website as soon as you see the packaging. I feel it's one of those brands that everyone goes, oh, yeah, I've seen that.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, totally, yeah. Often meet people in that ecosystem, they sort of think, oh yeah, black and white. And they go, yep, yep, I've seen you before. I've seen that in my drawer.
[Voiceover]: So true. So how did you get into it? I heard that family business with the family coming into it in 2013. Is that right?
Pablo Kraus: Yep. So my family actually bought into it in 2003. So 10 years in and my father walked out of a supermarket and he saw it across the road in a small little store there and they were doing refill stations and things. Wow, this is actually amazing. You know, I need to be a part of this. So since I think I was in my 10 years, I've always had an interest and been always curious, asking my father, what's going on with the ecosystem, what's happening there? And before I went off and did my own thing and came back and he said, hey, do you want to come and work in the family business? And by that point I was pretty excited to jump in and give it a go. So that was almost 12 or 13 years ago. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Wow. So it was a no brainer for you at the time. Did you have like that trepidation going into the family business when you were out doing your own thing? Because you were doing film, weren't you?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, close to film. I'd never pictured myself working in the family business, but I did go to film school. Yes. I originally wanted to become a film editor and I went to Vancouver Film School and I did foundation visual art and design and then specialized in digital design. And I got really into motion graphics, but also flash development back at the time and making like interactive experiences. So my first job, I came and worked in an agency here in New Zealand called Sellout Media and I was making touchscreen applications but also websites and front end development mostly. So I actually have made a number of websites and things. So I have that in the back of my mind when I'm working at ecostore, understanding, I guess a lot more than your average person who might not know so much about E commerce, I guess.
[Voiceover]: So when did you come in and take on the CEO role.
Pablo Kraus: So that was about six or seven years ago. So I'd been came in as a director in governance role and was very much, I guess what you call an executive director where I was very much working in the business, working alongside a number of really great, awesome, talented people and almost mentored into the CEO role. And I think when the, when the job came up, I, you know, as much as I was nervous about it, I knew that I probably knew more about the business than anybody else and was, you know, closer and more excited about it than, you know, anybody else could be. So it was a natural kind of progression.
[Voiceover]: That's cool. And with your background, especially in the digital and art, did you bring new ideas in straight away that you were like, oh no, we've got to do it this way, like we've got to be more online, more digital. Or is it kind of. It was always in place because you had that transition.
Pablo Kraus: I think it was always in place when I stepped in. I didn't want to come and turn the company upside down and change what we're doing because, you know, the reason we have been so successful is because we have been so authentic and part of our DNA to continuously improve and do better. We set out to make products that are better for the environment and better for your health and ultimately products that work as well. So we have to continuously strive with innovation and change. So it was natural for us to always be innovating and moving in the digital space not only with our physical products.
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[Voiceover]: and you mentioned that the brand itself is over 30 years old now and one of the first that was in the sustainable space, obviously a very different market at the moment where sustainability is now mainstream. What's the biggest challenge for you as a brand at the moment? To stand out or differentiate yourselves when there is so much noise out there around sustainability?
Pablo Kraus: I think one of the greatest things about us is that we are truly authentic and transparent and we haven't changed, you know, we're still a family Kiwi owned business and so, you know, we were one of the first ever to actually put all the ingredients on the back of our pack as well. Now everyone has to do that and I think by us remaining to be transparent and open, you can't hide anyone in terms of greenwashing. Any consumer can just jump online and go, hold on a minute, that's not quite right. I believe that's what sets us apart, is that authenticity and transparency to who we are as a brand.
[Voiceover]: That makes sense. And you mentioned before that mail order business originally shipping four litre containers around New Zealand and Australia. What's the model today? Is it. Is there still a D2C model with customers versus how much is wholesale retail?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, I mean we certainly sell. I think we're roughly 80% of our sales go through a retailer, traditional wholesaler and 20% online. But that you can see is growing massively. And I think looking around at our competitors, you know, New Zealand, Australia, we're probably one of the only ones that are actually selling E commerce, doing E commerce ourselves and we have started to see some of the numbers even with the retailers that work with the likes of Coles and Woolies and then a lot of our sales are going through their online channels as well. So that number might actually be higher than I think and I think longer term, obviously it's going to continue to grow. But ultimately we want to be where our customers are shopping and that's changing all the time.
[Voiceover]: Do you get much visibility from your Coles and your Woolies around where your sales are coming from when they've got that one to one customer relationship through all their online and direct to boot and everything like that?
Pablo Kraus: Now we can see a bit of it. I mean, I think we'd always like to see a lot more data than they're willing to share, but I think that's the case with most of them. Yeah, yeah.
[Voiceover]: And is Amazon a consideration? Obviously household goods and those products which we need on a regular basis is really popular in Amazon and gaining traction. Is that a consideration for you at the moment?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, we're selling on Amazon in Australia, and we have done for a while now, we've actually just taken that over. It used to be with one of our distributors, but we've taken that in house now and running that ourselves. So also in Japan, it's one of our largest channels in Japan and a lot of our E commerce sales go through Amazon and all of our reviews and all of that feed through that. So. And I think, you know, we don't really have that in New Zealand and Australia the same that we do when you're in like the US or some of those, you know, larger metropolitan cities where you can have delivery within an hour. And it's just like the logistics and supply chain aren't really set up for that in New Zealand, Australia yet, I don't think. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And. But you're planning that. You think it will get to that point?
Pablo Kraus: I certainly hope so. Yeah. And I think probably more likely so in Australia and those metropolitan, you know, Sydney, Melbourne, you know, it's already. You can see how much Amazon and things have invested in to get that running. Right.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Incredible growth. And you've got locations, I understand, here, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, which talked about. And then also China. Is that right?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, yeah.
[Voiceover]: How are those markets different for. You've already called out that, you know, obviously Amazon in Japan is a big market for you, which is different to Australia, New Zealand. How does China fit into the mix?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, so China is similar. We. We've been over, must be just over 10 years now, and it was at a time when Timor was looking for international and foreign brands to sell them. And we were probably one of the first brands to, I guess, be successful out of New Zealand. And we had, you know, incredible growth over a number of years. And that direct consumer, you know, us actually owning all the way through and making sure that we've got control of all our own pricing as opposed to going through a general trade or wholesaler is really important, I guess, in those markets. So China is basically 90% online, Japan's probably 50% online.
[Voiceover]: And in China, are you selling much direct or is it all through marketplaces that you mentioned?
Pablo Kraus: Mostly marketplaces, but we have a couple of offline retailers as well that are coming on. So we've got like 40 or so supermarkets. Yeah. And growing. I think we've kind of made it a focus in the last year or so to get those general trade products.
[Voiceover]: And what's driving the growth in China?
Pablo Kraus: We're looking to, I guess to sell offline, which we haven't really done. So that's Kind of why we've put a concentrated effort into it and having someone on the ground there as well just makes it a lot easier to be able to go in and talk to customers and see them all the time.
[Voiceover]: That makes sense. You mentioned authenticity was really key for eco store brand and that, you know, obviously that heritage of 30 plus years doing it, being really upfront with ingredients. But does the New Zealand heritage, do you play a lot on that when it does come to those markets like China and Japan does account for a lot in brand equity?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, 100%. I've done some consumer visits, so I'll go into someone's apartment in China and, you know, we talk to them about the products that they're buying. And online you kind of see what's in there. It's such quite an amazing experience. But, you know, you start to hear what they say and they initially, you know, talked about what's natural for them and they said that Australian products, Australian equals natural and New Zealand in the same way. So what? They specifically seek out products because they think of New Zealand and Australia as natural and green and safe. So that really resonates up there. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: If we've got brands who are being locally manufactured or made in Australia or New Zealand and want to leverage that for international markets such as China and Japan, where do you recommend the best places are to make sure that that stands out? Like, do you have any tips around how to represent that on packaging, website marketing? How do you make that shine for those markets?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, totally. I think particularly in those online marketplaces, that's where you tell your story and that's where you go through, you know, Made in New Zealand, you know, founder, and this is where it is. And that really resonates. And I think that's a lot of your selling is done there. But, you know, in New Zealand we've got something called a fernmark, which gives that authenticity of where it's from. And then Fernmark Also, which is NZStory, they do a lot of branding and marketing around what New Zealand is and why that's important. And I think Australia's probably got the similar thing with the little kangaroo, green and yellow. Is that right?
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And I think you have to buy the mark.
Pablo Kraus: Yes, you do. You got to buy it. But it kind of groups you together with other exported products and gives that authenticity that it is, you know, genuinely from New Zealand or Australia. And it's, you know, if you think back to when Daigo used to be a lot stronger, you know, people used to have photographs of them standing outside a New Zealand supermarket with all of our products and a trolley to show that it was authentic. From New Zealand. Yeah, that's cool.
[Voiceover]: That's cool. One of the things that I loved having a look at the products was your packaging design. So we kind of talked about that before. Where most people would recognize the packaging when you say Eco Store and you go. And you go, oh, yeah, I've seen that before. What I didn't realize was that you commission artists to create unique artwork for each of your packaging. Where did that idea come from and how is that received by artists?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, so we've had for a very long time before my time. We work with a local artist, John Reynolds, and he and his sister is also a photographer. And we, we used them for a number of years. And it just seems really natural that we've got this meeting between science, art and trying to keep things as simple as possible to make these formulas that that worked. So it was really natural for us to do that. And you know, we've done over the years limited editions with different artists. I even made, did my own piece of art. We put on some of our body wash. No. For our hand wash when we did a New Zealand bird of the year specific skew and I did some quite minimal art birds on packaging. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Did you keep a few?
Pablo Kraus: Yep, kept a few, definitely.
[Voiceover]: That's awesome. And how do you. Do you pay your artists or is it a promotion piece? Joint promotion.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, we pay the artists. So depending on what it is. So we have licensing deal in one sense. And then if we have like a one off, we'll do a one off paid payment for the art.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Pablo Kraus: Although I didn't pay myself for it.
[Voiceover]: I was like, there's a bit of a cost cutting exercise here. It's like, no, the CEO put his hand up to do a bit of artwork here. You mentioned that one of the things that you're really proud of with Eco Store is that you've been in the sustainable space for a long time, you know, long before it was mainstream. But you're always striving for new innovations. What's been an innovation recently that you're most proud of recently?
Pablo Kraus: I think what I am most proud of is this kind of change to go back to sort of concentration, concentrated product and you're getting a lot more effective product and allowing consumers to use it. Can imagine, as I said back in the day, four kilo laundry powders being shipped around the country and you can just imagine people in urban cities carrying the groceries home now we're getting products that are a lot smaller and more effective. So things like laundry pods have come out recently and they're awesome. Absolutely amazing product. And then you've got concentrated laundry liquid. But the other innovations that are coming back are actually not necessary innovations. It's just bringing back what we used to do. So we've got like a dish bar now, for example, which is, you know, something that has been done forevermore, but it's actually more sustainable because we're not using plastic to be the dish bar.
[Voiceover]: Gotcha. So it's just a bar of soap for your dishes, essentially?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, yeah.
[Voiceover]: Okay, cool. That's what I was going to ask you about is like the fourth, right? Because I could imagine that sustainability for you isn't necessarily what just goes in the product, but how the product's packaged, the different forms. There'll be so many different angles when it comes to sustainability, not just what goes down the sink 100%.
Pablo Kraus: It's everything from the suppliers that we work with and ensuring that they're, you know, that they're not doing a number of terrible things. And all the way through the people that, you know, the designers or people that we work with, you know, ensuring that they're right. So packaging is a really important thing for us. And, you know, for a long time it's always been that we can make these amazing, beautiful formulas, but you're putting it into, like a nasty petrochemical plastic. So now it's about format and understanding how we can get that to consumers in a much more sustainable way. For sure.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. I saw that you had sugar plastic as part of your packaging, which I'd never come across before. Can you tell us what sugar packaging is?
Pablo Kraus: So sugar plastic is plastic which is grown from sugar cane. It's carbon positive because it's actually capturing carbon. And it's essentially same at a molecular level as regular petrochemical plastic. So it can be fully recycled, but you're not drilling oil from the ground to make it. So it is by far the best plastic that you can get and much more sustainable. So we found that and we were probably the first to use it in Australasia in the consumer packaging, and we had to do that at a cost. You know, it's almost twice the price as a regular petrochemical product. But for us as a business and that authenticity is really important that we did that. So now we use sugar plastic, but we use also a combination of recycled plastic and sugar plastic. And it's about, you know, ensuring that we're Looking after our own waste as well as. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And are you finding that since you took on sugar plastic, is it gaining in popularity and there are more manufacturers using it to bring that price down?
Pablo Kraus: You're certainly seeing more and more of it around. The price hasn't necessarily come down. But talking with our supplier, you know, they're building more factory to be able to keep up with the demand and they see it as a much larger opportunity than it is.
[Voiceover]: So.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, so there's a number of ways to approaching the plastic problem and one of them is to use much better source plastic. And the other way is how do we deal with the insource and making sure that we're reusing what has been used?
[Voiceover]: That makes sense. Love it. With the economy, we're in Australia, obviously cost of living is a big thing at the moment. I understand similar story in New Zealand. For retailers there's a real focus on value. I saw a research report the other day, it was a shipping report and it was about, hey, what are customers really valuing when it comes to shipping? And sustainability was one of the lowest factors there at the moment, especially from a retailer's perspective. Where are you focusing on? It was all about cost savings rather than it was around sustainability. That was very different during COVID when there was less pressure on margins, especially in the E commerce space. How are you finding it from a customer perspective? Is the sustainability message still landing as strongly as it was now that times are a bit tougher?
Pablo Kraus: Look, I think if you're not talking sustainability or you're not thinking about sustainability as much as it might not be a consumer's top of mind when they're purchasing, it's certainly not going away. So as a business and if you're not worried about it, I think you're going to be out of business within 5 years time if you're not worrying about it. And it's consumers for us at ecosil, we've got, we've got choices. You know, it's all about having different format sizes for people to do, you know, in the same way people are at different parts of the sustainability journey. So being able to offer them, you know, things like a dish bar or a dish liquid, you know, a dish bar is actually a lot more affordable and you get a lot more washers out of it. But consumers still like to use a dish liquid, but it's more expensive. So having options for consumers is still really important and it doesn't have to cost nam and a leg to be thinking about putting the environment first.
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[Voiceover]: The example that you gave around the sugar plastics was great in that we've got to look at sustainability end to end and that's a sacrifice for you. Like I could imagine, there are times where you looked at the balance sheet and you went we could save half our costs on packaging. Have there been other times where you've had to make really tough calls to make sure that you're as sustainable as possible even though if it impacts the bottom line?
Pablo Kraus: Yes, certainly. I mean I think sustainability is more expensive to do and we are trying to take a mainstream product and make it sustainable and eco friendly and sometimes it costs more and sometimes we have to make a little bit of a choice. But sustainability is definitely a journey and it's about as I said for us every year we're trying to improve our formulas, our packaging or what we're doing. And one way for us to keep ourselves accountable is for example, our sustainability report. So we just done another one that's just come out recently and we try to keep up to date on that every couple of years. But you know, certainly we've got some ugly stuff in there that we know that we can improve on. But being able to measure it is one of the most important things and be transparent about it with that report.
[Voiceover]: I love that you're putting that report out there in the public eye for people to see. When it comes to measuring your success against the benchmarks that you're setting, are you doing that yourself or are you bringing independent people in to measure your sustainability efforts?
Pablo Kraus: We have independent help to help up set up a structure, but ultimately it's up to us to make sure that we're measuring and counting it. It's just cost prohibitive to have somebody else independent to do it all the time. And it's even costs us a lot of our own resource to make sure that we're doing it. But it is really important to us in a similar sense. We went through the B Corp as well and we're B Corp certified and that, you know, just as much holds us accountable as both sustainable company, but also a whole encompassing whole Encompassing company as well. So, you know, all the way through our employees, to everyone, suppliers who we work with allows us to know where we're at and how we can continue to improve.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, great. And what are your big goals around sustainability? So obviously 30 years old, have been doing it for a long time. Where do you see the biggest improvements that you can be making?
Pablo Kraus: I think the biggest improvements are going to come from consumer and consumer wanting change. So I mean I can imagine a world where, you know, imagine a world where apartment blocks were actually just plumbed in with all your cleaning products and you didn't have to go to the shop to buy, you know, a whole packaging every single time. And that could be almost the utopia as you know, just there's no need for packaging. You don't convenience factor. It's all just built in. Like you've got water coming in.
[Voiceover]: Has that ever happened in any country? Is there any case studies of that setup?
Pablo Kraus: I haven't heard of it or seen it, but I've been thinking about it for a long time. So I'm like, I need to kind of work out how to do it. But like for us at the moment, resource stations have really taken off. You know, we're over 100 locations in New Zealand and I think a number of locations in Australia as well. And it's one of those things where it's like kind of, it's a little bit more difficult for consumers but more and more wanting to do it, to remember to bring your bottles in to refill.
[Voiceover]: And do you do that through your own stores or through your partner stores?
Pablo Kraus: Through partner stores. So New Zealand, a number of supermarkets and then in Australia a lot of independent sites like organic stores and things like that.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, great. It's that constant trade off, isn't it, for customers between convenience and sustainability. But if you can bring both together, then happy days. And yeah, like you said, it's covering much more than just the product itself. It's how customer, customers are handling it, how, how it's being packaged up. That is where the real impact's being made. With you putting so much effort into reporting on your sustainability measures, going through processes like B Corp and being transparent around your ingredients and the rest. Do you feel like there is much greenwashing in your industry that you get frustrated with? When you put so much effort and emphasis on being as upfront as possible
Pablo Kraus: around it, it is really frustrating. You know, we, we often see other brands that are claiming certain things or claiming to be natural and you kind of, you dig deeper into it, it's that, well, how are they able to say that? And you know, we hold ourselves so highly in such high regard and accountable that we're not even comfortable to say something. So it is really frustrating. But that's why we have to hold on to our, I guess, integrity and authenticity and kind of show ourselves warts and all. But as I said, consumers aren't that silly anymore. And anybody can, you know, as much as they might read a claim, often people dig one little bit deeper and go, oh, hold on, that's not quite right. And it's different to how it used to be. So greenwashing, everyone's getting turned over more and more now. It's harder to do.
[Voiceover]: It is harder to do, thankfully. Do you find that you have to educate customers once or customers fairly well educated now in what to look out for?
Pablo Kraus: A bit of a mixture, I think like even just talking to people here, the whole recycling system is just so confusing for people. You know, they're putting in TVs and things into the recycling. Then I'm like, you know, you can't do that or polystyrene, all of these things. So educating consumers is probably one of the most difficult and challenging things to do for sure. So yes, we try to do as much as we can.
[Voiceover]: How do you do that? Do you do that through your marketing? Do you do that through your kind of loyalty? How do you educate?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, we do it through our marketing. We do it through unpack. But it's difficult because, you know, unless someone's really interested. And I think it's more about once you can convince someone to do one small thing, you know, whether it's all of a sudden they start walking to walking the 10 minutes to work rather than the two minute drive, the penny almost drops and they start to think about everything that they're doing. And that's everything from, oh, I didn't realize that my dish liquid actually has a negative environmental impact. And then everything changes and it's like, so it's about educating that the Eco Store is one part of this whole sustainability journey. We can provide products, but it's actually much larger than that because every little bit that we do all together has a much greater impact.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, that makes sense. It's all about that habit stacking, isn't it? Are there any other brands that you partner with or would like to partner with to help build out all those different habits or different ways that people can be more sustainable in their day to day?
Pablo Kraus: I can't think of any brand specifically, but I think the only way to kind of actually get that awareness out there is to partner with brands. You know, as much as governments can try to do some things, they're just far too slow. So partnerships with other brands can really accelerate both that education, but also actually have a much larger impact.
[Voiceover]: I need to ask you about your website. I did a bit of a browse around. You're built on Magento, so that's a platform obviously from Adobe. Very popular platform, probably five, 10 years ago, isn't as well known now. Is there a reason that you are sticking on Magento for the moment?
Pablo Kraus: There's not necessarily a reason we're on there, but what we do consider is that Magento is open source. There's still, you know, hundreds of thousands of developers that are on Magento, making it one of the easier platforms to get things done. You can pretty much almost do anything as long, you know, hack your way to do anything. But the more you hack, obviously the more challenging it is. But we have looked at some of the bigger players, but it doesn't quite do what we're trying to do. So I'm not saying we're going to
[Voiceover]: be there forever, but anything unique that you guys do from a D2C or digital perspective that people might not expect?
Pablo Kraus: Not that I can think of. I mean, we do a bit of surprise and delight sometimes with our orders.
[Voiceover]: And what kind of response do you get from customers when they get that bit of surprise and delight?
Pablo Kraus: It's one of the best ways that you can sort of reward or reward your customers without praising or going out and saying. And it's one of the things that people talk about without you having to do anything.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it's a great way to get a bit of word of mouth happening. And I could imagine that with your setup because it was really interesting when you were talking about all your different markets. You know, Japan being more Amazon Marketplace in China, Australia and New Zealand being more traditional D2C that with a platform like Magento is flexible enough to give you all those options to make whatever works for those markets happen.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah, certainly. And Australia and New Zealand is the only one that is Magento and the other markets are different.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah, great.
Pablo Kraus: And it's the Australia, New Zealand's probably and Japan are the only markets that we do have our own website direct to consumer. Really?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah. I've come across that a fair bit lately. Is, you know, a lot of brands that are saying there's no point making a website for China because it's all market place. Anyway, it's just going to be a show site anyway.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: If you had any advice for brands who know they are doing the right thing from a sustainability perspective and know they're putting the right processes in place, the right accountability, but are struggling to get that message across to consumers. Do you have any advice on how they can best get that message, the sustainability message across in the right way so that it doesn't look like they're suddenly turning on a greenwashing tap?
Pablo Kraus: I think it's about being authentic and saying, you can say, look, we've started on this journey as opposed to just flipping 180 and going, hey, we're green now. Taking consumers and customers on that journey is probably the most important thing as opposed to just turning on and feeling like you're greenwashing.
[Voiceover]: So, small steps along the way, introduce it as part of the story rather than one big in your face campaign.
Pablo Kraus: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. And any plans for you to extend beyond household and personal care products? What does growth and expansion look like for Eco Store?
Pablo Kraus: Yep, certainly we've always got ideas in the pipeline. I won't share too much, but we're also in baby. So I don't know if you know that, but we've got a whole baby range in there which has just been recently revamped and refreshed packaging, which is looking awesome at the moment.
[Voiceover]: Awesome.
Pablo Kraus: But yes, certainly more in the pipeline.
[Voiceover]: Okay. More countries.
Pablo Kraus: More countries, yep. At the moment we're predominantly Southeast Asia, as you know. But I think on the cards, not. Not in the short term, but in the medium term for sure.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. I was surprised to see in the research that ecostore isn't your only venture. You've also got another brand called Chantelle Organics. Can you tell us about that?
Pablo Kraus: Yeah. So Chantal. Chantal Organics is organic wholesale business and we do everything from canned tomatoes, canned beans to peanut butter to roasted muesli. And we've also got a fresh produce arm here in New Zealand which sells all organic products. So very much similar to ecostore. You know about health and health environment products that are good for you. That company has been around for over 40 years now and my family got involved six or seven years ago. We bought into Ecostore and so it's another really cool company, really proud of and we're actually starting to sell through some independence in Australia as well through a distributor.
[Voiceover]: Awesome. Fast growing space. Do you have much team crossover there or. They run as totally separate teams.
Pablo Kraus: Separate teams. So we've got a distributor over there that runs that. But we do have an EcoSore team over there. We've got about six, six or seven based out of Melbourne that does all of our Eco Store stuff.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. So what's next? What's the next 12 months look like for you and the Eco Store team? What's the priority?
Pablo Kraus: I think the next 12 months is we've come out of a year last year which has been hammering us in terms of inflation and costs and supply chain disruptions and a little bit of a tickle of that this year. But I think the focus going forward is actually we actually got some stability now. You know, prices aren't moving around too much anymore. Get back to basics and really ensure that we're delivering on our consumers needs. So there's the two parts is the being creative and doing the innovative fun stuff and then just ensuring that business is ticking along as usual.
[Voiceover]: Solid. Love it. So if people have heard this and want to check out more of Eco Store, what's the best way way for them to go about that?
Pablo Kraus: Best way is to go to our website, ecostore.com au or ecostore co ng. I think it'll redirect you either way. You can find out all about our products and see a bit more about us here for sure.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. Pablo, thank you so much. I think it's been a really great conversation to understand more, to go behind the scenes because sometimes you look at a website and you can see the B Corp logo, you can see all sustainability claims but genuinely the effort that you put into packaging even when it isn't as cost efficient as other options. Things like being involved in B Corp and all the considerations you report that you've got out at the moment is really showing how to be authentic around sustainability, not just using it as a marketing place. So thanks for sharing. Light on that, that was fantastic.
Pablo Kraus: Awesome. Thank you very much for having me, Nathan. I really appreciate it.
Nathan Bush: Pablo sure knows what it means to grow a sustainable brand with purpose and passion. I especially love that it's a family business and he has been able to maintain that passion from his parents and bring it through to a whole new generation. Here are the three big takeaways from our conversation that really stood out to me. Number one, keeping it real. Eco Store has built its success by being genuinely transparent long before it was regulated. From listing every ingredient to earning certifications such as B Corp, they make sure that customers know exactly what they're buying and it is paying off. Eco Stores commitment to openness has earned them loyal customers who feel confident choosing their products over less transparent options. For anyone in E commerce, this is a great reminder that building trust by showing customers that you've got nothing to hide leads to long term loyalty and keeps customers coming back even if you don't see it in the analytics every week. Number two Adapt to local markets ecostore tailors its approach in each market and it's fascinating to see how that has come about. In Japan, Eco Store partnered with Sesame street characters to create a product launch that connects with families and adds a playful edge to their packaging. This partnership was developed to draw in new customers who might not have considered Eco Store before. Meanwhile, in New Zealand and Australia, where they are more well known, they work closely with local independent stores, tapping into trusted and local retail channels that align with their customers values. It's a great reminder that adapting to local tastes and habits can make a huge difference in reaching and resonating with new customers. And number three, Make Sustainability a journey, not a Box to tick Eco Stores commitment to sustainability goes well beyond their products. It's woven into the fabric of their operations and absolutely shines through their packaging and delivery and has done so for generations. From refill stations and concentrated formulas to innovative packaging options like sugar based plastics, everything they do is designed to reduce waste. Their approach reminds us that sustainability isn't a one and done task, it's a journey. And it is never, ever, ever done. It's about continuous improvements, big and small, that add up over time. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a friend or a colleague or leave us a quick review on Spotify or Apple podcasts. And thanks once again to our sponsors, Shopify plus and Deliver in person for making this conversation possible. Before you go, we'd love to invite you to join our free e commerce learning platform Add to Cart Campus, Meet other professionals and learn from e commerce experts to take your business and your e commerce career to the next level. Register to join campus@addtocart.com now. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague. Or even better, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple. It really makes a difference.
