[Voiceover]: It's very much like opening up the chip packet and you're like, well, hello, where do all the bloody chips go? This is probably a good example of coming up with an idea that no one, absolutely no one has faith in. It's not reinventing the wheel, it's perfecting it, smoothing out any bumps that have occurred and just doing what someone else is doing better. Welcome to ADD to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at E commerce talent agency E Suite. Is it just me or if packets of chips got less full over the years? I swear I used to get more pop from my Pringles. Today's guest feels exactly the same, except she's a salt and vinegar lover. But the analogy applies to how she approaches business. She's determined that her customers will never get that ripped off feeling of being shortchanged. Bryony Kennedy started Pure Play brand Adorn cosmetics back in 2009 to create a luxury beauty range with ethics at its core. And their products, which are organic, vegan, low impact and sustainably packaged, fit the bill. This was well before the sustainability movement hit its stride. With their eco refill program, color matching and unique sample kits, they've grown a huge and devoted following. Some call it a cult of united adorners of all ages. In this chat we discuss the major replatforming project Adorn have just gone through. How a reluctant decision from Bryoni just five years ago doubled Adorn sales overnight and why her team prepare a lot of packages for royalty. Bryony speaks and sells from the heart and that really comes through in today's chat. From sharing how she didn't take a wage for 10 years through to the ambitious plans for Adorn today. I dare you not to be inspired. So let's get into it. Thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Signet. Here's our conversation with Bryony Kennedy from Adorn Cosmetics. Briony, welcome to ADD to cart.
[Voiceover]: Thank you for having me. Exciting.
Nathan Bush: It is. It is. Now you are looking fresh, bright eyed even after launching a new website. How does that happen?
[Voiceover]: I think the secret is the Adorn concealer that I've got on Underneath my eyes, just to. I'm gonna have to borrow some honest. Yeah, yeah, look, it's been a. It's been a bit of a journey, that's for sure. But yeah, we're getting there. Definitely getting there.
Nathan Bush: So we're gonna get into the story of Adorn Cosmetics, but before we do, I think everyone will be interested, given we're an E commerce podcast, to get a little bit of information around what you guys have done in the re. Platforming.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, look, I. I mean, I've been in this business online for 13 years now and one of the things that became quite obvious very quickly and a mistake I think some people may make, is that being online may be a cheaper alternative to retailing a product. And you know, in some ways it is. But really building a really stable, engaging, seamless site is something that is just as costly as creating a floor plan and a beautiful retail store. Not something I realized until I had my foot too far in to get to step back again. But yeah, very. You know, it's very much worth it though. And of course what I love is that where a store you may not be able to track as well what's going on. You know, obviously with a good E commerce and platform you can. So for me, I've had different platforms along the way. The one with. The one we were on was on the unpaid Magento back end. I'm surprised, as is the new platform that we've survived as long as we have on an unpaid Magento platform. But it just became obvious that we're starting to get a lot of glitchy issues. And it was simply because we were obviously adding in all of your plugins and your bolt ons and all of that sort of stuff. And it was just really starting to cause a bit of havoc in the coding and a bit like a needle in a haystack when that starts happening, you just kind of don't know where it's happened. So we just reached a point 12 months ago where we thought this is something we really need to invest in. And prior to that we probably really couldn't afford it. If I'm really honest, Adorn really has found its feet over the last five years. The first 13. So 13 years in business, but the first last five years we've really found our feet. So it kind of all happened at a right time. We needed it, we could afford it because it is a very costly exercise, but one that I know will absolutely provide proved to be worth it just because of the seamless transaction side of things. You know, the artificial intelligence that we can pop into the site, the reporting so important, you know, it's great to know when things are going wrong and why and fixing things. But you know, for me what's super important is why are things working? Like, you know, once you get something working, how do you emulate that and replicate that? That's, you know, it's a bit the same, same adage of, you know, if you keep an existing customer happy, they're going to spend more money and it's a lot less effort than finding a. And the same applies with your website and the reporting. So the Magento paid backend obviously with Adobe, so that relationship I found, really a good one. They've been very involved with each step of the way and of course I think there's a lot more for us to play with, which is what I'm excited about. We have a very unique color matching service so of course something that's had to be built on the wish list, but of course really quite custom made and obviously I can have multiple wish lists on the paid versus non paid. So one of those wish lists is being custom or has been custom made to really tailor towards this service around custom matching. So someone uploads a photo, we color match them with real people and then we're able to select the products that would suit them. They receive an email, et cetera and then they can add those to cart. So I think the individualized nature of how we can give customers access to various things along the way, their whole journey feels very personalized. You know, I think from their point of view. And also the page like page clicks like so much quicker. Wow. Like I think, you know, most of the pages can be sort of reached, you know, in half the time that they were before because the back end of the current, the old Magento platform was just bogged down with all of those plugins and you know, just not working efficiently. I guess it's expecting Ferrari speed out of a Datsun, you know, and you know, you've added all bells and whistles and it just bogs it down. So super happy with how it's going and what we are going to be able to do with it moving forward.
Nathan Bush: That's brilliant. So developing custom experiences is still really important for you. You didn't want anything kind of just off the shelf.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And look, one of the things that I guess was the big bottleneck for me when I started was that you know, 13 years ago it was unheard of to buy cosmetics online. Like it would be like, no way, I'm not doing that. I want to touch, feel, see, smell it. But for me, at that point in time, it was the only option I actually had because, you know, sometimes, you know, what is holding you at your peril becomes a positive thing. And that was that I didn't have the finances to, to go into stores and have reps and, and I couldn't afford the stock to go into stores. So for me, I thought I need to do this in a way that I can obviously control it. And that's really how the evolution of working online occurred for me. But it also occurred that this is such a personalized product that it's not about just getting the right size for a piece of clothing. It's, it's so tangible in that, you know, what foundation, type, what color, it's personal preference, all of these things. So for me, it was about bringing in that personalized service around sampling. So the samples on the site, the color matching, of course, and you know, having things like the live chat feature. So if someone doesn't want to talk, they've got that opportunity. Of course they can email us, of course they can call us. But just having that real live interaction with us also is super important. And what I'm excited about moving forward is in a couple of months time is looking at the artificial intelligence side of things because our spectrum of audience is so large and like with there's two main audience sizes and there's, you know, there might be a few percent different between the age groups and it's almost negligent. So we've got quite a big demographic. And that being said, though, like, if we're promoting an ant, we never probe anti aging. But if it's some sort of hydrating product that's more geared towards a more mature woman, it's probably not going to be something that a younger girl is interested in seeing. So the AI artificial intelligence for me is so important because every step of the way customers are going or consumers going to feel it's personalized. So it will know, okay, well, when I go on there, my age, based on my footprint, what to show me at the front end. So when they land on the homepage, they're not going to show me, you know, acne products, they're going to show me something for a more mature woman, vice versa, someone who's a bit younger, they'll be able to see the acne products. So that's super exciting for me because you've got a nanosecond to catch someone's attention. However they found you, whether It's Facebook, social, YouTube, whatever, you've got a second to catch their attention. They're not even. And then when they get to your site again, they're so time poor that if that landing page is not specific to them and their needs, you've lost them. So I'm super excited about what this means to move forward with all of this. AI.
Nathan Bush: Fashion retailer Incoo has been introducing customers to new international brands for nearly 20 years. With 10 retail stores, E Commerce has been a support player, but in the last year it got really serious. They've upgraded from a custom site to Shopify and now Shopify Plus Incoo sales have grown nearly 300% year on year. Shopify plus features such as Launchpad for automation flow to manage nearly 2,000 SKUs, scripts for customization and Shopify plus merchant growth model have all had a compounding effect. Not only are sales up 300% year on year, conversion rates are up 80%, average session engagement up 91% and bounce rate down 40%. Incoo more like in whoa. To read more of Incu's story and see other case studies, visit the customer sections on shopify.com au+ what are the signals that you take to be able to personalize that content? What are the key ones?
[Voiceover]: I think for me it's knowing then the customer journey. I think that's the most important thing because I know once we have a customer we retain them. Like our retention of customers is higher than average. So once they become an adorner, they stay put. But it's giving a customer a journey. And I think that people buy into relationships and stories now. So yes, I want to engage with them at a very quick level. First impression, yes, we have what you want because that's ultimately people want to know, do you have what I need? Yes, you do. Awesome. I'm willing to spend a bit more time looking through the rest of your brand, like what your brand stands for. Do you have other products that can continue my journey? So I think that we may as consumers be looking for things to solve pain points. Because ultimately we're not selling products, are we? Or services. We're solving the pain point or we're solving the solution or the issue. So I'm not selling foundation, I'm selling better skin. So it's really looking at how do I get them to engage straight off the bat. And then what's key for me is that I can then start quantifying what that lifetime value becomes and how I get that is by Their journey. And for me, it's looking at getting that, say, four stock turns a year out of a customer. So I know that they're engaging with us every few months. And that could be the skincare journey, it could be a makeup journey, it could be even a lifestyle journey. We're looking at that category more for lifestyle things. But keeping them engaged is so damn important because there's bloody products coming out of every angle that you can lose someone so quickly. So if you don't stand for something and you don't deliver on what they need, they're going to go somewhere else. If you can retain a customer, customer and actually give them a journey, I think that's what's key. And that's why personalization is so important for me. Right down to your emails. You know, everything. Like, don't bombard 500,000 million database with the same email. It's got to be personalized and specific or they're going to lose interest. Where we're so consumed by data and info and images that it's fatiguing. And I think if you want to encapsulate any of that, it's gotta be super important, super personalized. And then when you've got them, you've got to provide your customer with a journey and support, absolute support. Not just an email, but an ability to be able to speak to a real person and get real service as well.
Nathan Bush: There's a lot in there. There's a lot in there to unpack,
[Voiceover]: a lot to pull from that. But what I love.
Nathan Bush: No, I like it. I like it. I like where we're heading here. Because in my research, and I have to admit, I'm not a Dawn Cosmetics customer, I probably should be.
[Voiceover]: Oh, we might be able to turn you around.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's right. That's right. But I did a lot of research and obviously you've got a huge cult following. Like the Cult of Adorn is real and obviously featured in the Daily Mail, and you've got some really great publicity, especially around the mineral foundation product. When you talk about retention, do you feel the pressure to continually release new products and new things, or is your idea of retention around getting someone hooked on one particular product that they just can never find a replacement for and just keep delivering that product at the best quality possible.
[Voiceover]: Yep. So definitely that and a little bit of the other. So I'll explain. So for me, it's about never sacrificing or compromising. And just recently we've had to increase some of the prices of our core Products, not all of them, but some of them. And we haven't had a price increase for five years. We try and keep things pretty stable and we can do that because of our ethos around providing naked products. So what that means is we don't spend money or waste environmental resources by putting products in boxes that you're throwing out a second later or soap in a. You just don't need that. You get the product and that is it. So we can keep our prices quite competitive. But obviously with the environment we find ourselves now, the prices of things have just gone through the roof. Shipping, you know, ingredients, all of that stuff. So we have recently put our prices up at. And the reason for that is I just will not sacrifice on the quality of the product. To me, what I, what I find even as a consumer is that I have been on a journey with brands myself. Not cosmetics, of course, but other brands where I've fallen in love with things and then all of a sudden they're not my go to anymore because the quality's just fallen down. And it's, you know, maybe the price has been the same, but the quality's fallen down. So rather than put a price up, they've sacrificed the quality. Maybe they're doing it for margins, I don't know. But that is, for me, you just lose your integrity as a business. Because I don't like being taken for a fool. And I feel as a consumer, that's what you feel like, that the brand thinks you're a fool. It's very much like opening up the chip packet and you're like, well, hello, where did all the bloody chips go? You know, do you not understand salt and vinegar in my life, I want the extra 10 chips. Like, seriously, I will notice. I would have preferred to pay more to get what I want, what I have always fallen in love with. So I think always hold your integrity and never ever be prepared to sacrifice on that. Because your customers will notice. They really will. And if you're a brand, the way I see adorn, and that is that we are the Chanel of the natural world. We are not a brand that's going to be discounting left, right and center. We're not going to be bringing in new things all the time. We are going to be a staple and one that builds trust so that you as a consumer, when you fall in love with something, you know that it's always going to be exactly that. And unless we've notified you differently through emails or campaigns, it will stay the same. So it's that trust. And I think that's so important. And the reason I believe we've got such a cult following now, and it's probably not a great word, but it's kind of, that's what it is. I mean, we've got 5,000 women or more now in our private adorner group that are just the most loveliest, kind obsessed adorners that you'd ever like. They're just bouncing off each other, showing each other their makeup tips and ideas. They're sharing other things. Lifestyle, when they up, when they're down, when they've had something amazing happen in their life. So it's gone beyond makeup. The makeup has become the medium for the consumers to get together and create their own community. And when you create that, they become your soldiers. They start talking about your brand for you. But to get that initially it's, you must have integrity, trust, and you must prove to your customers that what you say is what you're delivering. And when you get to that point, it's so much easier to bring a new product in without selling it. They just know Adorn is going to be cruelty free, it's going to be vegan, it's going to be allergen free, it's going to be Australian made, it's going to be minimal packaging, it's going to have a refill. They don't even read up about it. They just buy it now because there's that trust there. So when I started the brand, I really wanted it to be a tried and true staple Evergreen brand. It's got, and most of what I call our core range, the stuff that turns over quickly, like your foundations, have been with me since I started. So I had those created right at the beginning. They're still there. They've never changed. We've added shades in, but that's about it. So when it comes to bringing in new things now, this is going to be different on depending on the brand, isn't it? Right. Like, I get that fashion, you know, I wouldn't want to be in that field. Wow. Like, I take my hat off to you guys.
Nathan Bush: But even in fashion, there are brands. So say, for example, take Ray Bans, for example. If they started producing shit Wayfarers, the rest of their products go out, right? It's like they've still got four products that they need to make sure they maintain quality on.
[Voiceover]: Totally agree, totally agree. I think the rag trade's probably the where I wouldn't want to be from an environmental point of view too. Kind of doesn't sit well with me, all of that whole churn over. But I get it. It's business. Right. I get that. But for me, it's about providing something that's a staple. But of course, you'd need to add on to that. And so I would say that probably the last few years there's been more of a focus on. It's not to say we've never added in over the years, but this last few years we've had more of a focus of bringing new things in because we're really content with where we're at and the customer base we have now. And rather than constantly seeking new customers to build how many customers we've got, it's of course, now also looking at how can we service them more from a convenience point of view. They don't have to go somewhere else. Of course, we're maximizing our sales and profit based on customers being able to shop with us more. So we do bring out products, but they won't be. Rarely will they be seasonal. And what I mean by that is we'll bring it out. And we might say if. I'm not sure how it'll work. If I think, will our customers want bright lipsticks or do they really want more neutrals? Is that our demographic? So we might bring something out that's a limited edition and we produce a minimal amount, and then if it sells, then it stays. So the intention is always to have a product remain as part of the core, rather than it just being a seasonal, get this. And then it's not available again, it's kind of not the way our brand works. People very much commit to adorn and they want to be able to buy that time and time again. And if anything, they get quite upset if something does get discontinued. And it will only get discontinued because I can't source the ingredients anymore. And I'm not going to compromise. So, yeah, it's a little bit of both, I think, with answering that question.
Nathan Bush: No, that makes total sense. What I love, what I'm hearing so far is the effort that you put into acquiring customers and then keeping customers. And one of the things that you guys do really well is the samplers.
[Voiceover]: Yes.
Nathan Bush: How did you come up with the idea for the samples? And can you explain to our listeners how that works?
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So this is probably a good example of coming up with an idea that no one, absolutely no one has faith in. So when I first started the idea of samples, again, it was that whole, how do I get people to have faith in using this brand? Because it's online, like how are they going to try it? And I really started this brand pounding the pavement and teaching makeup classes in women's homes. That's how I started. And of course was able to sell the products there. They'd call me and I'd be able to send them out more. And the natural progression was I need a website because I can't keep up with the sales. But of course I can't keep doing classes all the time. How do we maximize on this? So the sample idea came about just because I thought, well, that's what I'm just going to have to provide samples. I was definitely not in a position that I could give them away so they were going to be sold. Now 13 years ago, people still got them free from David Jones and Maya. So no one in their right mind thought I would succeed with selling samples. So it was really hard. But I knew in my gut that it was right. I just knew it would work because I know, look, I've never had a business plan. I've never had a marketing plan up until recently. Everything I do, I do on my gut. If my gut is something, I listen to it and I always know I treat myself as the consumer. Would I honestly buy this? And if I think yeah, honestly I would, I'm thinking there's other brineys out there that will too. It's that, that's you know, as I suppose high tech as my marketing goes. So I started the samples and of course, you know, there's some people that were whinging, I don't want to buy them and, and the rest of it. But most people have never ever considered been concerned with it because they want to be able to try it out. So we started selling them individually and initially it was really just I'd have a stand with full size products on it and we would just be dispensing one at a time and you know, the Dynamo label, putting one on there, real time efficient, not that's how we created them because I just didn't know if they were going to work when. Now of course it's much more sophisticated and that, you know, there's thousands of samples being made by machinery. But the sample boxes, one of the things I noticed was that even though women or men still could sample the product, they still had the issue of okay, well I can sample them, but what samples do I buy like? And let's face it, we're also time poor. We kind of, if we're honest, want someone to make our decisions for Us sometimes, especially when it's something that's not life or death, you just want like, I don't know, tell me what foundation to, to buy. I don't know, do these jeans look good on me? Just tell me and I'll get them. You, you, you want that one because you're just time poor. But two people have that insecurity. They're not sure. So I thought, okay, well if that's, then they're having to make more decisions. It's less sales. So the more decisions your customers have to make, the less sales that's going to equal. So that's where the sample of boxes, the ultimate complexion. There's a, There was, we did have a foundation box for a period of time. We've got a skincare box. And all you have to do is just select whether you think you've got a light medium or a dark skin. And then in those boxes there's about four or five different shades that fit into each. And I know from my experience that most women think they've got fair skin or lighter skin than they actually have. So I'm able, I know now through experience what samples to curate for each box. Because what I found was that most women that even should be probably buying a dark foundation wouldn't buy the dark box, they'd be buying the medium or the light box. And so what we've had to do over time is realize what are the first products they're buying because they think they're those. And then what do we actually know they really are going to be? And we know this through the color matching as well, all the images we're getting. So we put the product, the colors in there that we know they think they are, and then the ones we know they're going to be, it's a bit of that.
Nathan Bush: So they're not predetermined boxes.
[Voiceover]: They're predetermined. Yeah, we just know now after, you know, like we used to have quite, I think we had five or six from memory. Now we've just got three. Because over time we've known exactly what shades are the most popular and the shades that women commonly pick, but also actually they're not and the ones they really are. So, so. And it's a, it's a soft way of getting them to try something else. And one of the things we also do as a follow up from the samples is that before they receive the box, there is a video emailed to them about, you know, this is what you're getting. This is how you'll use it. How exciting. So we're holding their hand every step of the way. After they get it, they'll receive another one. And then if they haven't purchased, there's a follow up where we offer a couple of free samples, complimentary, if you've still not found the right color. Because often it's just that their needs haven't been met. It's not necessarily because they don't like the brand, it's because maybe the color isn't correct. And again, it's just that holding their hand and building that relationship every step of the way. But the samples have just been the absolute establishment of this whole brand. Like without a doubt. We wouldn't be where we are without having those in place. And to this day we sell hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them. Like it's just phenomenal how many samples that we sell.
Nathan Bush: And do you measure the conversion rate or the lifetime value of the customers that start with samples?
[Voiceover]: Yes, we do. And I'll have to be honest that that's been very tricky with the old Magento platform. As you probably aware, the reporting's quite minimal there. So there was different reporting software that we used. It still wasn't super accurate. So I'm hoping moving forward we get a better understanding of that. So what we did to counteract the conversions was we implemented of course the follow up emails with codes so we would know how many people converted based on the amount of codes that we had or had been used. And of course the lifetime value is a bit easier because you've got Google Analytics and things like that. So again our conversion rate is very high and I've been told it's higher than the norm, which I think is amazing. So I'm really super happy with that. But I'm kind of thinking it might even be more so than what it is once we can get some actual data, which is the new Magento paid platform. What we did notice though over time with the samples is that we were putting too much in there. So I would say maybe the first eight years it was really trial and error and discovering through the Colt adorners that some of them had sample pots from like a couple of years prior that they were still using. And that's fabulous. But it's also not a business can't survive on people just buying samples. So we have had to really, you know, pivot and be quite dynamic around how we do things because just sometimes things last way too long. And ultimately the goal is give someone a week's experience out of it and that's it. Anything beyond that and it's too much. So I think that's a lesson that I learned, is that there's a fine line between not giving them enough but also giving them too much. And that's something that, you know, with a bit of research and trial and error we discovered.
Nathan Bush: But it sounds like in this whole ecosystem that you've created here, this whole community, that you've really taken control and you're not relying on channels like Instagram and obviously they have an input. But everything is about having a direct relationship with your customers, whether that be the Facebook group, it's the personalization of the messages. It's using samples to acquire new customers rather than having to pay huge acquisition costs.
[Voiceover]: Yes.
Nathan Bush: At the same time you've said that you don't have a business plan. It's amazing that it's that you've used your gut feeling to get into this direction. Where do you go for inspiration and to make decisions?
[Voiceover]: Disclaimer. I don't want anyone to just think they can start a business and not have a plan, okay? Like, I'm not responsible for anybody. But look, for me, you know, look, I had my very first business when I was in primary school. I had a profit and loss book. I've still got it from then. I think it's just the way wired. I'm very good at coming up with ideas. Business. I love it. I love the challenge of business, but more importantly, I love the challenge of creating that relationship with customers. I find that whole psyche really interesting. What makes people tick, you know, what makes someone commit to you, the brand. And so I find all that stuff really interesting, genuinely. I also love numbers and figures. So I think that my advice to anyone would be that, yes, listen to your gut, but always understand the numbers. Because, yes, you might have a really good idea, but possibly no money to back it up. So be sensible about it as well. And you know, I have always made a point of understanding financials and reporting so that I have ultimately the end say so. I'd love to know myself how I just. Because then I could probably bottle it and sell it, but I just wake up with ideas and think, okay, this is a really good idea. Or I notice something that maybe I'm doing and taking it for granted and thinking, hang on, this could be a product. But also I just look at the things that I think caused me issues. So it really just comes back to me thinking, okay, well, I don't like, believe it or not, going into Shops, I hate it. I buy everything online. So for me I just would. It's a time thing. I just haven't got time for all the, the fluff. So I think. But then how do I know it's going to fit? How do I know if I'm going to like it? So it's really just looking at what a bottlenecks for me when I'm looking at other brands and there's so many cosmetic brands. Like, honestly, never in my wildest dreams would I think I was sitting, sit here talking to you and being in the position we are as a, you know, a multi million dollar brand compared to, you know, like maybe even five years ago when I was on the bones of my bottom. But even when I started, everyone thought I had rocks in my head because there's so many other cosmetic brands and unless you've got a ton of money to back it up and advertise, it was almost like, this is just not going to work. But for me, I guess it's really about the small steps along the way. It's not reinventing the wheel, it's perfecting it, smoothing out any bumps that have occurred and just doing what someone else is doing better. It's really all it is. I mean, often you could start the same business as somebody else and just provide better service. Probably all you need to do. We've all had experiences that are quite shit and I just think, God, if we could replicate that and just be good people to the customers, we'd have business coming out of our ears. So that's how I look at it. One of the mottos we have here is that any of the parcels that go out, if you wouldn't give that to the Queen, it doesn't go out. It's as simple as that. If you wouldn't be proud to hand that over to her, it's not happening. And don't treat a customer any differently to how you would expect if you were on the phone. So the girls in customer service have got free for all. Really. It's all down to what they think. Thank goodness. We don't have many complaints. It's usually just a postage related issue. But I always just say to the girls, if in your mind this was you complaining and you feel that the result or the standard is, is unreasonable, don't do that, do what they say. If you think that it should be replaced, replace it. Yeah, it's, it's really that simple. Just treat people the way you want to be treated, not just a number, it's Very, very simple. And you end up with an absolute, as we've discussed, a cult, an army of people that are singing your praises because you've actually validated them as being important. And that's all we want, is to feel important and feel that, you know, the money I'm giving you I could have spent with anybody. And to me, I genuinely appreciate the fact that of all of the brands, they've given me their money, not someone else. And that's, you know, I think that's a real testament to any brand that if someone's picked you like, you should be proud of that but also honor that because they could have given it to someone else.
Nathan Bush: I love that tip around, give the experience that you would expect yourself. And I think it's so easy, especially as you get into an organization, whether as a founder or as an employee, to easily look at experiences and complaints from customers and go, yeah, well that's because our piece of technology doesn't allow us to do this. Or that's the way our courier system set up. And that this courier doesn't do it. You go, it doesn't matter to the customer if it's a shit experience, it's a shit experience. You got to take ownership of it.
[Voiceover]: Correct. And if you know they're going to have a shit experience and it's out of your hands, pre warn them, email them and say, you know, post is just atrocious right now, but we still aim to dispatch within the first 24 hours. Let them know so they can make this educated decision, have it as a pop up, you know, we're experiencing delays or, you know, like one of the things that we're really honest about is, you know, as we've been growing, it's been hard to look at exactly the volume of products to have because for me, I'm always about having fresh products because it's a natural product. You know, I don't want to make 100,000 units of something then have to throw half of it out. It goes against our brand and our philosophy around waste and landfill. So I'm really, really, really very careful about how much we produce to the point that it probably jacks some customers off because we're out of stock of things a little bit. So there's a fine line because I don't want them to be upset. But also sticking to our values and not too much, but also in the instance of that is it could be that we've produced something and it's not. The quality's not there. Let them know don't try and hide it. Just say, look, I know you've been waiting for the XYZ lipstick. The quality came through. We were not happy with it. We wouldn't wear it ourselves. We wouldn't expect you to let them know. Then they know there's real people behind this. You do have quality control. You're not just passing on and hoping no one notices. And the same, you know, if we know that we're running out of stock or we're running low on stuff, we let people know so that they aren't missing out. So just have that communication with people and then you don't have people pissed off.
Nathan Bush: We've talked a lot about B Corp. Retailers on past episodes of Add to Cart and our packaging partner Signet are playing their part. They recently helped nail polish brand Sienna Byron Bay achieve B Corp status and 99% plastic free orders from start to finish by switching from bubble lined mailer bags three years ago to Signet's Giami Protective packaging. Not only is Sienna's practices better for the environment, it keeps the nail polish better protected. Visit signet.net aublog to find out more. Now, you've mentioned a couple of times here and my curiosity's gotten the better of me. You've been in business for 13 years and you mentioned that something happened at five years where the business boomed, obviously put prices up. We talked about that about five years ago. But you had a real boom at five years. What happened?
[Voiceover]: Look, when I first started Adorn, I did not want to be the face of the brand. Like I felt that whole thing was a bit vulgar. Like I just didn't want to, that's not why I started it. I didn't want to be Ms. Model on the like, that's not what I was about. I just wanted to create products that I wanted that made it, that met my ethos around natural and the environment. So there was a few things I did initially just because I couldn't afford models, but I never wanted to be anything other than just the odd face here and there. So I really, I felt and it was wrong that the products would stand on their own two feet and that they were that good and that accredited. Like we're the most accredited Australian brand there is. The colour cosmetics that, that should be enough. So. And I guess there's always that imposter syndrome. You know, when I started it was very much Vogue magazines and it was still very, you know, manufactured, beautiful cut and paste imagery, you know, like edited to the point you don't look like yourself anymore. So it was very different. And I didn't have the funds to do that. Like I didn't have the funds to have those photographers and to do all of those things. So for me, I just felt like, well, if I can't be them, I won't do any sort of advertising. So we got to around year and running the business has always been hard. The business has always grown and I guess that's always been the hardest thing for us, is that it's always grown, but we've always been cash flow strapped. And that's because of the amount of money you're pouring into products. You're reinvesting. And on a side note, I didn't take a wage for 10 years. Let that just sink in for a moment or two.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's belief.
[Voiceover]: So that's right. So. So for me, when it got to about year, yeah, it was about year eight, I suppose we were literally getting funding from family to buy our groceries. Like this is how poor we were. And it was so difficult for me because the brand was really, it was doing well, but it just wasn't getting as. It wasn't tracking as quickly as I would have liked. It was so frustrating because I knew everyone loved the products that was using them, but it was like, how do I get it into more people's hands? Facebook clearly wasn't really a thing even five years ago for business was right on the cusp. So I was at a point where I actually had the conversation with my husband that I would start packing shelves of a night, he'd get a day job and the little team that we had would just keep things ticking over until maybe we had to sell the business or I don't know, we're just not sure. But we've got no money and we are literally in dire straits. Do we go bankrupt? What do we do? This is just awful. And my biggest was great. I've worked all this hard work, so I'm going to come in, take over all my good work. It was never about the business not being successful. It was about not having the cash flow to sustain it. So my husband, who had been in my ear for many years around me being the face of the brand, me representing the products, talking about them, showing them. He said, you used to do the classes and everyone would buy from you because you. It's just people like listening to you. Why, why are you not doing this for the business? And so I'd always resented I didn't want to do it. And then I thought what have I got to lose? Like, honestly, I'm literally about to lose my business here. How bad can it get? So I thought, well, this is the only thing I'm not doing that I can think that could maybe make a difference. I'm still reluctant. I did my first video on precariously. Had my phone hanging on the second story with the window adjust so I'd have just enough lighting in so that it looked like I had the right lighting and the crappiest bathroom you could ever imagine we were in. At that point, it was echoing. I had no idea what I was saying because it was really hard looking at myself and speaking. It's difficult, as you probably would know. It's like your brain's having a delay. So I said about 50 times, it was the worst video ever. And so. And there was two more like that that I did that week. But I look back and I now like to say that the first few videos I did definitely made the first few million for the brand. So sometimes the worst thing that you can do ends up being the best thing ever. And for me, it is testament that if you are just unsure, just get out and do it. Do it. Because these videos were shocking, Shocking. I'm embarrassed by them. And there is that saying too. If you. If you've entered the market and you're proud of your product, maybe you've entered too late. So, you know, I even look back at some of my packaging and I think, holy shit, why did anyone buy this? It's crap.
Nathan Bush: Like, it looks crap,
[Voiceover]: honestly. So those videos were shit. In all honesty, they were crap. But I do remember specifically because I could see the back end of Magento, the reporting. And when your cash flow strapped, you're, like ticking off over, like, refreshing every minute to see how am I going to pay staff tomorrow, how am I going to. Like, oh, so I'm always checking sales and one particular day, my mum was there. So this is about five years ago after I'd done those videos. And I also sat down with my marketing team and said, look, there's something not right about the few videos we are doing on Facebook, because Facebook just became a thing for business then. It was still really raw, but people were starting to utilize it for that and I just felt like there's something missing. And so we looked at all the ad sets, we went through them all and I think we were just so close to the product that we were missing the point. We weren't sharing with our customers what the product really was. And we came up with the tagline adorn is luxury without the guilt. And it is, that's what you know, whether you've got an issue with buying overseas or whether it's landfill or whether it's cruelty, whatever it is, it's a luxury product that you have any guilt associated with. So that was the other change we made within about a week, as I said, I was sitting there with my mum and I was refreshing the sales and I thought, bloody hell, these bloody sales are being duplicated. There's something fucking wrong with Magento. Honestly. Magento bloody Magento. Honestly. And so I went into the office next. I even messaged the girls and said, look, please check the sales when you're printing them out, because I think it's stuffed up and it's duplicating orders. And then I get the message before I get in that, no, no, they're all orders. This is not right. And then from that day forward, it never stopped. And it was the moment in time that really changed the business. Now, would that have happened without the eight years of hard slog behind me and establishing the products, learning from my mistakes, making financial mistakes, Would it have, would have it turned around that quickly? I'm not so sure. Like, I think that there would have had to have been some element of the brand having had all the pieces, the right setup and, you know, all of that and also, you know, being able to facilitate that growth because you can grow too quickly and go out of business because you can't facilitate the growth. So I do think that, look, yes, while in some ways I feel like I market, we've become an overnight success where we at that point were a ten year overnight success. And I guess the motto of all of this is, is that, you know, it's about refining the wheel, doing things better than everybody else, simplest things, increase your sales, but also having a story and putting a person or a Persona to your brand. Because everybody wants to look up, up to someone. Not so that it's unachievable, but someone that they can relate to and that they feel that they could achieve something similar. And now more than ever, we're in an environment and a society where people want raw stuff. They want to see your pimples, they want to see, you know, the warts and all. And like to the point that even when I was on this trajectory of growth, I was like, how else can I communicate with customers? Now I'm very time poor, as we all are. And one day I thought, there's a few things I need to tell everybody in the adorner group. I haven't got time to butt ass around writing emails. I'm just going to jump on alive. I was in my bathtub naked and I thought, oh, I don't know how this is going to go down. But my three boys, they're busy, they're not in my face, I'm not at the office, no one's to bother me. Bugger it. I'm going to do a live to our audience and tell them all of the stuff in. So it's now called bath time Waffle. Yes, I'm really naked. Yes, I'm really in my bathtub. And we sit there and talk about all sorts of stuff and you know, you don't get any more raw than that. People see me without my makeup, I talk about all sorts of things and they love it because they can associate their life to some degree but deliver it with kindness and without judgment. There's also that, you know, you can have a very clear passion but also do it without judgment and accept that some people are not going to see things your way or wear things your way or want to do things your way as well. So that's super important as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, you're better to have a tribe of like really strong followers and trying to appeal to everyone.
[Voiceover]: Correct.
Nathan Bush: Briohnie, what you've shared today is fantastic. And you know, from founders who may be in their own struggle points that you've been through and sharing your experience and even to team members who might be working in E commerce where we talked about delivering the experience that you would expect to have as a customer, you shared so many great practical tips. Thank you. And I think from my own perspective I might start bath time add to cart live streaming as well so our audience can look forward to that. Like just the luxury of me and my bathtub. Just live streaming.
[Voiceover]: Oh, absolutely. Sure. Get some conversion.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. So what's next? Next for yourself and Adorn Cosmetics.
[Voiceover]: So we are very quickly running out of room where we are at the moment. So I think over the next sort of 12 months or so we will be looking to move because we do have our own pick packing area. We do also have our own fulfillment area. So we do everything in house. So we're becoming quite a massive team. So there's that. But also looking at global operations. So expanding the team to include some people that are quite savvy because I'm also very aware of where, you know, where my expertise doesn't lie. But also knowing that we need to go and look at global opportunities. So I will be looking at that. And we are also are looking at the opportunity of a retail concept store. And I can't tell you too much about that. Maybe you can have me back one day when I can talk to you about that a bit bit more. But I've had a really exciting concept that I'm working on that is more about a destination and an experience than just coming and getting makeup and not even just getting your makeup done. It's beyond that. Like, this is just something that I know is going to blow people away. So, yeah, lots of, lots of awesome stuff in the pipeline.
Nathan Bush: Oh, you've got me intrigued. I'd love to hear an update on the story when we get there. Now, if people have heard this and they want to get in touch with you or the Adorn team or just check out what you're doing, what's the best place to to go?
[Voiceover]: So definitely the website, which is adorncosmetics.com if you're curious to check out the amazing Adorners, there's also the Adorners exclusive community on Facebook. You of course can find us on Instagram, even TikTok now, who would have thought? And of course our normal Facebook page. But you can email, of course, live chat, we're here. And you can also check me out on my own podcast too, which is business and Babies. So if you're wanting to hear about any of those topics, you can have a listen there.
Nathan Bush: How's podcasting life?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, another, another dimension to the story of the brand. Like it works really well because people get to hear and associate, acknowledge, have empathy, you know, all of these things that they realize you actually have a heart and a set of lungs. You actually exist. You know, you are a person and just like them, you have your ups and your downs and, you know, it's been quite successful. And for me, I think again, it's another thing that I can share with people if they want to hear rather than, you can't always access me, but at least you can access the podcast and hear about that. You know, I guess why people write books too, isn't it? You get to the point you just can't keep sharing your story personally, but this is definitely a way people can hear it.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. The name of that podcast is Beauty, Business and Babies. Ronie, thank you so much for sharing today.
[Voiceover]: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Nathan Bush: What an amazingly honest and inspirational story. I just really love that chat. And I have to be honest, I wasn't in the Adorn market before our chat, but I really want to stay in the loop with everything Bryony is doing. She's really telling it like it is and you know, it's a journey that I think a lot of us really want to follow. Here are the three top practical takeaways I took from our chat Number one Don't sacrifice the quality of your base or Hero products. There are things that made you famous and they keep your customers loyal. By all means, experiment with side ranges, extensions, new products, but don't sacrifice the the quality of your core product. And if you don't have a core range, you better find it Number two Facebook Groups they're still a thing Bryony shares how the Adorn Facebook group has gone beyond makeup and is now a 5,000 strong community to discuss all things lifestyle and life with like minded people. That's natural community building at its core. And number three, the Queen quote. If you wouldn't give it to the Queen, it doesn't go out. Don't make up excuses if your experience doesn't live up to what you would expect yourself as a customer, don't compromise on the customer experience. It's an all day everyday effort, but make sure you put yourself in the shoes of your customer. Would you accept what you're giving them? To finish up, I have have three resources for you. Firstly, if you're a first time listener of Add to Cart and you want to stay up to date with new episodes, head over to addtocart.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll let you know every time a new episode drops as well as giving you my three takeaways from each episode and a link to the transcripts so you can know that this is an episode that you want to dive straight into. Second, secondly, if you want a weekly roundup of the best e commerce case studies tools and research, sign up to the Hi5 Friday newsletter which is delivered to inboxes at 8am every Friday morning. I read all the e commerce news and send you the bits that I think you can take action from. Sign up at 12 high 12h I g h.comau i5 and the last thing if you are looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, head over to esweettalent.com au we are a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands. Check it out. Sign up to the email and get in touch with me if you want to discuss your next move. Until next time, thanks for listening and keep on those customers adding to cartoon.
