[Voiceover]: When I hit the sort button in Google Sheets, it's like, okay, who do we have here? This year there's a new generation of people with new ideas that are disrupting the established way of things and it's an exciting time. I'll host your podcast and you can edit my magazine. Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at ecommerce talent agency eSweet. Now, you've probably spent a lot of time with today's guests without even knowing it. Creepy, right? Well, today's guest is Heather McIlvaine, features and premium editor at Inside Retail, the go to mag and website for all things retail. Now, if you haven't heard of Inside Retail, get your butt over to InsideRetail.com and sign up for their daily email. It is absolutely gold. And if you're a lover of what they do, why not become a professional subscriber? That's you, a professional. I reached out to Heather because she is behind the top 50 people in E commerce, which was announced a couple of weeks ago and you may be seeing all over your LinkedIn news feed right now. Now in its seventh year, Heather and I discuss the process for putting together such a list that is as competitive as the top 50 people in E commerce in Australia. Bad news, bribes, they don't make the cut. We also chat around why it's so important to be generous in your e commerce career and how to get the attention of trade journalists like Heather. If you have a message that you want to get out now, if you see yourself as a future top 50 star and why shouldn't you? This is a conversation you'll want to listen to before we get started. This is the last week that you can enroll in our 10 week E commerce accelerator course. After that it's cut off. And we are away. Thank God. I hear you say no more plugs for this thing. But if you want to join us one week to sign up, head on over to esweettalent.com au forward slash accelerator to sign up today. Our first class, our first two hour live class is on Tuesday next week and I can't wait. All right, so thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Signet. Here's our conversation with Heather McIlvaine, features and premium editor at Inside Retail.
Nathan Bush: Heather, welcome to add to cart.
[Voiceover]: Thanks, Nathan. Glad to be here.
Nathan Bush: Glad to have you here, especially after the week that you had. Last week was a bit crazy, wasn't it?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, pretty crazy. Some early mornings, late nights, but a lot of fun.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. And that was obviously Retail Week, which is hosted by Inside Retail. And a big part of that was the top 50 people in E commerce, which is the event or the program that you run. So let's cut straight to the chase.
Nathan Bush: Who won?
[Voiceover]: Well, yeah, very happy to reveal finally that our number one for the top 50, 2022 is Tenille O', Shaughnessy, the CEO of Adore Beauty Beautiful.
Nathan Bush: And we've had Tenille on the show and she's fantastic and we love what Adore Beauty does. Who else was in that top 10 that comes to mind? Give our listeners a kind of an idea of who we're talking about.
[Voiceover]: I'm sure that many of the top 10 have been on your podcast. In fact, I was scrolling through the episodes and saw a number of them. But number two this year was our previous number one, Julie Mathers, the founder of Flora and Fauna. We had a tie for number three, which we can get into later about how that happened. Rob Godwin from Lovehoney and Tony Nash from Booktopia.
Nathan Bush: Oh, Rob wouldn't be happy about that.
[Voiceover]: Well, yes, I'm not sure that either of them are used to sharing the spotlight, but they put on a brave face last week. We had also one of the co founders of Lovely, who I think has been on your podcast, Verity Tuck was our number five. Some of the other top ten, you know, Mark Coulter from Temple and Webster, a kind of up and coming women's fashion brand, Baby Boo. So Argelica Konditsis is the founder of that. Zoltan Chaqui from Citizen Wolf. I'm now thinking, who have I forgotten?
Nathan Bush: I'll put you on the spot here. There's some great names in there and obviously we'll put the link into our show notes for everyone to go and download their copy, which I thought was really cool too because it's sponsored by Curious place you can get a copy of posted to you as well as downloading the PDF.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I think. Well, first of all, they're a great sponsor. Thank you for calling them out. They will post, I think the first 300 people who make the request online. You can download a digital report but also ask to get a print copy sent to you. And let me tell you, I spent many days creating that print copy, so I'm very happy that other people get to see it, you know, in the flesh. And one of the things that we've been doing the last two years for the top 50, which is really fun, we express post hard copy to the actual top 50 with a personalized front cover. So, you know, everyone will get the COVID with tenille on it. But then if you're one of the top 50, you get a cover with your own face on it, which I know everyone loves.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. And so tell us about the process and then I'd love to go back and get into some of the traits that make our top 50 the top 50. But can you walk us through the process? Because I believe there's a judging panel who help you decide on that top 50.
[Voiceover]: Definitely. I would not be able to do this on my own. And it's actually quite a large judging panel. There's 10 of us. But I'll just back up even a little bit further because it actually starts with inside retail readers and the e commerce industry. So we have an open nomination process where I think for several weeks, maybe even a month, we just invite anyone to nominate anyone who's working in the e commerce industry in Australia who they think deserves to be recognized for their outstanding work. And that way, we want to make sure that we're opening it up to people who we're not aware of. You know, e commerce, it can be a role that is not that visible outside of an organization. You know, if you're the founder of an e commerce business, maybe you're the public face of the company, but if it's a bigger corporation with stores, you know, and hundreds of people working in it, oftentimes we don't know who's heading up the e commerce side of that business. So we really, you know, stand by this open nomination process to make sure that we get in as many nominees as possible. You can nominate yourself. I'm here to destigmatize that. I think that should be fine. If you think you're doing a good job, put your, you know, put your hand up and nominate yourself. And I think I mentioned the criteria are that you need to be working in an e commerce company in Australia,
Nathan Bush: and by that you're talking about you have to be in a retail organization.
[Voiceover]: Yes. So we basically define it as selling products to people online. That can be B2B. Sometimes we get B2B businesses as well. We had to kind of think about how do we define E Commerce? How do we, you know, try to make this as fair as possible and as clear as possible? I think one thing is there's a lot of important work that vendors do in the E commerce space. And it's just that this particular ranking is not for vendors. So, you know, that's, that's. I think probably the main issue that we sometimes get with denominations is that people understandably want to put, you know, put forward the companies that help them do what they do. You know, we applaud that and we'll have to think of another way to recognize them.
Nathan Bush: Sounds like another sponsorship opportunity somewhere down the track, I reckon.
[Voiceover]: Exactly.
Nathan Bush: Fashion retailer Incou has been introducing customers to new international brands for nearly 20 years. With 10 retail stores, E Commerce has been a support player. But in the last year it got really serious. They've upgraded from a custom site to Shopify and now Shopify Plus Incoo sales
Nathan Bush: have grown nearly 300% year on year.
Nathan Bush: Shopify plus features such as Launchpad for automation flow to manage nearly 2,000 SKUs, scripts for customization and Shopify plus merchant growth model have all had a compounding effect.
Nathan Bush: Not only are sales up 300% year on year, conversion rates are up 80%,
Nathan Bush: average session engagement up 91% and bounce rate down 40%. Incoo, more like in.
Nathan Bush: Whoa. To read more of Incoo's story and
Nathan Bush: see other case studies, visit the customer sections on shopify.com.
[Voiceover]: Last year when we ran this nomination process, I think in the month of September, we got hundreds, several hundreds of nominations. It was the most we'd ever gotten. It was amazing. And we email each and every eligible candidate to invite them to apply. And the application process is pretty straightforward. There are four questions. It's focused on the achievements that you've done in the previous 12 months. And the reason we do that is because we want to keep the list fresh every year. We don't want it to be, you know, the same 50 people year in, year out. And so it's four questions. One is how have you contributed to the commercial success of your business in the last 12 months? The other is how have you shared knowledge with the industry, whether that's through mentoring colleagues or speaking at conferences. Third is how have you led or championed innovation in the business? And fourth is how have you had a broader impact? And by that we're talking about, you know, maybe you have implemented a sustainability initiative or you have supported a diversity and inclusion program, or you've even done something in your kind of personal life that is along those lines. It doesn't necessarily have to be for your E commerce business. That particular question. By choosing these four questions, we are hoping to recognize well rounded people. You know, it's not purely about E commerce growth or growing your business, although that's really important. And you know, and we want to make sure that we're recognizing people who are implementing the latest technologies and ideas with the innovation question. But we also think, you know, this is about people who kind of go above and beyond in every aspect of their profession and that includes impact and thinking about the community and not just themselves.
Nathan Bush: So those are the application questions on the application process. I can imagine that it's very similar to recruitment where when you're interviewing someone, we've kind of been drummed into us that you give credit to the team, especially in leadership positions. It's like, we did this, we did this. But you're really asking people to say, tell us what you did. Do you find that there's a bit of a skill or an art to be able to take claim or ownership of that without coming across as arrogant?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, that's a really good question because I think that might be one aspect of the top 50 that people do struggle with. And if you attend a launch party, you'll hear that every single person, we announce the top 10 at the launch party and give them a chance to say something. And every single one of them said, you know, this is an individual award, but really I wouldn't be here without my team. And that is so true. You know, it's true for all of us in all of the jobs that we do. So I think that can be challenging, but I think it's also worthwhile. I know I'm somebody who personally probably always defers to the team. I really like being part of a group and working together on something. And I think I choose to see this as a positive opportunity to kind of reflect on some of your individual strengths because we all have those too. So I hope, I hope that's how people approach it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's a good insight.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: All right, so we've gone through the application process. People are submitting their applications. How big are the answers to this? Is it really comprehensive?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, well, we limit, we limit the word count, which is crucial. Otherwise we'd probably still be reading the application. It's 250 words per answer. So that gives you an opportunity to kind of explain something at length without contributing to hours and hours of reading, which you Know, well, as being a previous judge.
Nathan Bush: A previous judge, it was, it was a great process. But because there is so much information crammed into those 250 words, you feel like you can't miss a thing. You've got to pay so much attention, especially when you're dealing with the calibre of people that you're talking to.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, absolutely. And also the number of applications that each judge has to read. So we try to, as the report has been gaining more traction and we've been getting more applications, we found it necessary to kind of each judge doesn't read every application. That would be impossible. So we randomly assign each judge a selection of the total and even still, you know, that's, we're finding that we're kind of at the top of what's possible for a judge to really read and score. So after we get all the applications in. Yeah, we randomly assign applications to the judges. We had 10 judges, including our sponsors, myself as well as online retail experts like you. We've had on, I know we've had some of your other co hosts on like Mark Bart's as well. So I tried to pick a new judging panel each year just to keep a fresh perspective on things and. Yeah. And then the judging process begins and that's six week process. We have a rubric, a scoring rubric to ensure that everybody's on the same page about what kind of answer gets a certain score. The rubric is a lot about showing whether the person showed, gave like specific examples and perhaps evidence in their answer to kind of back up their claims. How many examples of innovation did they provide, how impressive was the growth, the commercial success that they contributed to and that sort of thing. So we've had good feedback from the judges on having that scoring rubric to help ensure that they don't get swayed by their own biases. You know, it's not a blind application. The reason we've done that is because there are all different types of E commerce businesses and we think it's important that you know what size the business is, what they're selling, you know what industry they're in. So we found that we don't feel like it's possible to make it a blind application process. And because of that we have this rubric to try to ensure that it's as objective as possible and good chance
Nathan Bush: that the judges, because they're pretty well connected people, even if you blanked out the name and the company, they'll figure it out anyway.
[Voiceover]: 100%. Yeah, yeah. You guys all know Each other very well.
Nathan Bush: Too well.
[Voiceover]: Too well. So finally, once the judging period is over, it's a very simple process to get the ranking. We average the scores that each person has received from each judge and you know, that's our ranking highest to lowest. So it's always a surprise to me as well. I of course read a selection of the applications, but I haven't read all of them. I don't know what the other judge, what scores the other judges are giving the applicant. So when I hit the, you know, the sort button in Google sheets, it's like, okay, who do we have here this year? So that's, that's always a fun moment.
Nathan Bush: Do you think that after seven years you've become a tougher judge?
[Voiceover]: I think I have. Probably because you gain a better sense of what the standard is.
Nathan Bush: Is that code for having a bullshit radar?
[Voiceover]: Yes, yes. You can see through things a little bit easier. I think also the quality of the applications has improved over the years as people have gotten to know the report and what it's about and what we're looking. Course they provide, you know, more detailed responses. You know, we also get new people in every year and that's always really exciting too. And you know, it's people who are flying under the radar, doing amazing work that you never would have heard or known about otherwise.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I put it out to my E commerce accelerator students and I said that we're having this chat today. Is there anything you'd like to know about the top 50 and how it's put through? And Desley, one of our students had a question for you which I hope you don't mind me putting to you, is that she said that with the politically correct and social standing that we're kind of adhering to, how do you decide such a finite list? And you've answered that in that it's a judging panel. But what struck me this time was that it felt like there was more equality and more of a well rounded group of people here. Is that true or is it just naturally falling out that way?
[Voiceover]: Well, I think that I did hear from a couple other people that they felt like it was a really good representation of the industry. A couple people said they felt like there were a lot of fresh faces, which they liked, a lot of kind of younger people in the industry who've maybe come into it in the last several years. It's hard for me to say whether we've done anything different to achieve that result or whether it's just the natural result of the top 50 becoming more well known. I think, especially in the last couple of years, it's become more widely known and we're getting more applicants. And that lends itself as well to better representation. So I should say that in addition to the open nomination process, I invite the judges to nominate their 10 people who they think are doing outstanding work. And I nominate people as well. The thinking being that maybe we have a handle on who's stands out to us in the last 12 months. A business that's doing really well or somebody who has been kind of speaking at a lot of conferences or talking about a big project that they led. And so, yeah, it's a tough one for me to answer, but I do think that there's certainly an effort on our part to represent the industry as best we can. We're somewhat limited by. We can only put people in the top 50 who apply for the top 50. So I would say the more people who apply, the better the report will become over time.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And hopefully it's a representation of the entire industry as well, you know, being more diverse and representative as well.
[Voiceover]: Yes. Yeah. And in terms of that diversity, I will say that I have noticed over the years there's almost always been 50. 50 gender equality, I guess you could say in the list. There's always been a really, really good representation of both men and women. You know, I think recently we are all more aware of diversity in other aspects of diversity, including racial diversity. I made a concerted effort to ensure that I had judges who were people of color as well, thinking that, you know, perhaps they are aware of some E commerce professionals in their community that aren't as well known, that maybe aren't getting invited to speak at conferences and don't already have a platform. And perhaps that had an impact.
Nathan Bush: I'm not sure it's a really good point because E commerce in Australia, I think there's a really clique group that may have been around for 10, 15 years. So I love that you bring in different people into the judging panel who may not be part of the. How do you say it? The people that have been around forever. Because there's so many different communities popping up around E commerce and they're starting to come together, I feel. Yeah, but so important that all corners of E commerce are being represented.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. And I think maybe the word you're thinking of is like the establishment. And I think we're seeing that in all different kinds of businesses that there's a new generation of people with new ideas that are disrupting sort of the established way of things. And it's an exciting time.
Nathan Bush: That's well put. You should host this podcast. You'd be way better at me. So obviously that's one trend that we're seeing coming through in 2022. Were there any other new trends that you saw come through? Obviously the last 12 months hasn't been like any other 12 months. We've seen what trends stood out to you around the people who did really well in E commerce in the last year.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I was thinking about that, and it's almost hard to try to encapsulate 50 different people into a few trends, but I thought I would just mention that things like expanding overseas and launching new products, maybe launching onto a marketplace or creating your own marketplace, like those are certain themes that have come up over the years and we continue to see those this year. I will say I do. Kind of going on from our previous conversation just now, I think that I saw many more examples of people getting involved in diversity and inclusion programs, both whether it was something internal like in terms of their an employee program or collaborating with a First nations artist on a particular collection or donating to a particular charity. I think that there were a lot more examples of that this year. And I would say that has come out of the greater awareness that we all have due to recent events with the Black Lives Matter movement and that sort of thing. So that was really exciting to see and I thought really noticeable. One other thing, it's not surprising that with COVID we've seen trends around same day delivery. And one of the very new startups I think launched just last year that was in the top 50 was send, the grocery delivery startup founded by Rob Adams. So I think that's. That's a sign of the times, if you will.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. And I noticed that in your introduction to the top 50 that you mentioned about that this is obviously about skills, but about generosity as well. And you mentioned that in the judging process. Why is generosity so important to you?
[Voiceover]: When I wrote that, I was thinking in particular of people who take time to mentor colleagues and share their knowledge with others, and probably they're helping somebody else progress in their career. The reason I mentioned that was because I think I was feeling a little overworked, a little, a little tired, kind of had been having some long days to try to pull this together in addition to some other, you know, things on my plate.
Nathan Bush: There were a lot of spelling mistakes in that opening. It was horrible.
[Voiceover]: I'll host your podcast and you can edit my magazine.
Nathan Bush: I'm joking. There were no mistakes at all. It was great. I really enjoyed that opening. It was great.
[Voiceover]: And so I was just, I think acutely aware of how busy we all are and what it says when you take, when you devote time that you really don't have to helping somebody else. And oh gosh, without getting too political or looking too widely at the world, you know, it can be, I think we've all had a tough time with COVID That's maybe a safer place to stay and it can impact how you feel about how optimistic you feel about the world around you. And when you see those moments of people maybe even sacrificing a little bit of themselves for someone else, I think that is just wonderful and something that I personally would love to highlight and I saw so many examples of that in the top 50 application process. So I mean that just really lifted my spirits and I wanted to make sure that other people knew that was happening.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I think it's a great criteria and I think what happens is there's almost like a spiral effect too is that you see these people who are really good at what they do in e commerce but they are, they dedicate so much time and they make it a non negotiable that they're going to help out others, whether it be in their social causes, whether it be sharing their e commerce knowledge and by doing those things they become better at e commerce as well. So it's like it's this nice circle that you see that it's not one or the other, it's that this is, this makes them whole and makes them a better practitioner as well.
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Nathan Bush: Were there any professional or technical skills that you saw come through the entrance? You mentioned marketplaces before. Anything else that really stood out to you?
[Voiceover]: One that stood out to me was supply chain management. Now, I think we've all been hearing and reading a lot about the supply chain lately, so that might not be that surprising, but one of the top 50 stood out to me in particular. I'm just trying to remember his title. It might be COO at Brosa, Rishabh Singh. And in his application he detailed how he had enabled by having great contacts in the supply chain and having nurtured those relationships over the years, enabled the Brosa and online furniture brand to avoid the really, really lengthy delivery delays that a lot of other businesses in that space were suffering from. And I don't have the specific numbers at hand, but I just thought that was a great example of how crucial a skill like that is at this current moment. It probably will continue to be. So I think that's certainly one that stood out to me. The other one that I was thinking of, and I don't have a particular person in mind when I say this, but I don't know if I want to say marketing, digital advertising or just like customer acquisition more broadly, but I think something that a lot of people who work in E commerce no doubt have noticed is how much more crowded the space has become and how much more costly it's become to acquire customers. So those who are doing a good job at that, I think that's certainly a very valuable skill to have at this moment.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. That all makes total sense. Can we loop back to Tenille now as our number one for 2022? What were the things that made Tenille stand out over the competition? And competition is a horrible word. It's not really competition.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I really, I've thought a lot about this because Tenille joined Adore Beauty a little less than two years ago and prior to that she was working in the tech industry at the online recruitment platform Seek. So she's relatively new to the e commerce space. And I was just, I was thinking, wow, she's really made a big impact in a short period of time. So what, what might be the reasons for that? And having read her applic for me, there are two things that stand out. One, I think that she is very strategic and even though maybe she hasn't founded her own online retail business or knows all of the ins and outs of running, certainly running, but maybe founding or starting an online retail business, she knows how to grow and scale a business and she has some, to me, really smart ideas for continuing to grow Adore Beauty over the coming years centered around customer engagement with their amazing podcast. And they've got a really interesting loyalty program that's centered around exclusive events. The other thing that I think she brings to the table is her approach to leadership. And I think we should all just take a moment to think about what it would have been like for her to come into Adore Beauty, which has been led by one of its founders for the last 20 years. And so she's the first non founder CEO of the business. And the fact that she was able to gain the trust and support of the whole Adore Beauty team I think speaks volumes to her leadership skills. And so I think for me, those are two. Perhaps, you know, we haven't talked about those yet when we've been talking about other e commerce skills, but I think that those are things that set her apart.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's really great insight. Thank you. It's funny because as you were talking there, it brought back memory for me because I was. I love Adore Beauty and I wanted someone from Adore Beauty on the podcast on Add to Cut. And the natural place to start was with Kate. So I reached out to Kate, we'd spoken a little bit in the past and said, kate, would you be interested? She's like, nath, I'd love to come on, but actually I think you're better off speaking to Tenille. Like she's actually in the business, she's doing a great job, all that sort of stuff and going, you'll get way more out of Tenille than you will out of me now. So that trust that you said is so true and it comes from the top all the way through. And obviously she's got the whole team on board as well.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And I didn't realize this actually, but Adore Beauty's I think, also coo. I should have really nailed these details before I came on, but Sarah Mullen, who oversees a ton of different functions at Adore Beauty, but certainly the warehouse and logistics space, I know that for sure. She came in at number 12 and it turns out Tenille was the one who nominated her, which I think is really lovely.
Nathan Bush: That's nice.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: You had a couple of double ups in there. People from the same business come in. Was there any awkward moments there?
[Voiceover]: I hope not. Not that I'm aware of. I hope not. I think that we have not kind of said in the past only one person from a business can apply. I think part of it is that there can be so many different people in a business in different roles working on the E commerce business. And it feels like a monumental task to try to say you have to be a Chief Digital Officer or you have to be the head of E Commerce. I don't know that I could narrow it down to one specific E commerce role that you have to hold in order to apply. So we've kept it open and because of that, we do get people from the same company. And I just hope they congratulate each other and maybe save the comment for the drive home.
Nathan Bush: The one that stood out for me was Hannah and Verity, co founders of Lovely and have been co founders since day one, but both in there, which is a great recognition for the work they're doing at Lovely, but would have been funny conversation to see them compare results.
[Voiceover]: I know, I know. And I think, you know, one thing that I do believe, legitimately believe, and I hope people also see it, is that even though we have ranked people 1 through 50, first of all the scores are very close. And to BE in the 50, you know, to have made the top 50, there's well over. There were well over 100 applications. So I think to be in it is a huge honor and I would certainly say you should be proud of it no matter where you came. I hope that's the kind of thinking people have.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. You should be.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned a lot of new applicants and entries into the top 50. Was there any new businesses or people in that top 50 that really stood out to you?
[Voiceover]: Well, I think maybe one that I want to mention. This person actually was in last year's top 50, but it's a new business. I think I'll still mention him. Matthew Skerritt, the founder of Every Human, and we gave him the one to Watch award this year. So that's an award that we give to somebody who is maybe more of a startup, relatively new to the E commerce space. So Matthew launched his business, Every Human, which offers fashion and lifestyle products for people with disabilities at the end of 2019. So it's just now just a little over two years old, but he's already. He already went from having, I think, pretty much an exclusively fashion offering to now it's all different sorts of lifestyle products. And last year he launched this initiative called Unpaired. And it's. It's basically a footwear offering that allows you to buy either a single shoe, like just the left or just the right, or shoes in two different sizes. And that's because a lot of people don't have the same size foot, surprisingly.
Nathan Bush: I love that. That's brilliant.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, if somebody has a prosthetic leg, for instance, and perhaps they don't need the left shoe or the right shoe. It allows them to just buy what they need. They're not having to figure out what to do with these leftover shoes or pay more than they need. I mean, it was a huge logistical challenge for him to figure out how to do that, but he did.
Nathan Bush: I'd say nightmare.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Yeah. You know, he is just driven by this mission to make life easier for people with disability, and he's doing a great job at that. So we wanted to highlight that. Another one. Look, I'm going to take your question in a different direction because one other person I want to highlight.
Nathan Bush: He's such a journalist.
[Voiceover]: Did you see that smooth pivot? Another person I want to highlight is somebody who is well known. They're not new to E commerce, but it's Booktopia CEO Tony Nash. And when I was putting together the report this year for the first time, we decided to kind of indicate which people had been in the top 50 before and then also which people had been in the top 50 like five times, because we've been running this report for seven years. So I had to go back through Every single top 50 report, figure out, you know, who on our list this year has been in previous reports. And one thing that I found out that I had no idea of before was that Tony Nash is the only person who's been in every single top 50 since we started seven years ago. So I just think that's. I don't know even what to do with that information, but I think it's really cool and I want to tell people about it.
Nathan Bush: That's great. And he was the one that ended up tying with the great Rob Godwin. How did that news go down when you told him it was a tie for number three?
[Voiceover]: Oh, he. I think, look, Rob was announced first, and at the launch party, his speech. I guess I should say that we don't tell any of the top 10 where they came. We don't tell anyone in the top 50 where they came until it's revealed on the night. So if you're in the top 10, we tell you you made the top 10 because we'd like you come to the event in person if you can
Nathan Bush: get your butt to Melbourne.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. But, yeah, the specific ranking is revealed as I announce people. So Rob, I, you know, I said there were two people for number three. Rob. I announced Rob first. He came up, made a talk. You know, Rob's from Love Honey. He shared the retailer's mission about, you know, sexual happiness. He spoke about how if we all had more orgasms, the world would be a much better place. And then Tony came on stage and he said, I knew I was going to be called for number three because there's no way I can follow up that speech. So I don't know if it was the tie or the talk which one was worse, but I think he was okay.
Nathan Bush: First time anyone's ever mentioned orgasm in a top 50 thank you speech.
[Voiceover]: Almost definitely, yeah.
Nathan Bush: How was the event? Was it fun to have everyone together in person?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it was really fun. That's such a fun. Aspect of my job is to be able to do the announcements. People are excited. I get to see people who I've interviewed on the phone or on Zoom only and I get to meet them in person. And that's really great. And as you said before, everybody in e commerce knows each other so well. It's just a great atmosphere. So we love to do that and can't wait for next year.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome. Do such a great job of it and it's always a brilliant reading. Like I said, we'll put the link in the show notes. Heather, I'm really interested because you get to speak to so many people across E Commerce. What do you feel is. Is there a certain type of mood or feeling that you're picking up on? We're talking in early March at the moment and it's been feel like we've lived a year and two months. What do you feel? How are you feeling that retailers are feeling right now?
[Voiceover]: I think optimistic. I think there's a sense that touch wood, lockdowns are behind us, borders are reopening, people are getting excited to live their lives again, go to events, buy things for events. So I think, I think there is a feeling of hopefulness about the year ahead. You know, of course it's one thing after another. So I'm sure there will be many challenges that we're not even aware of yet that that will get thrown at us. But perhaps there's offensive as well that after the last two years there's no challenge that we cannot meet, that, you know, we've kind of been through, been through a tough time and come out the other side. So there's that sense of, you know, what time will keep on ticking, we'll do the best we can and get through it. And that helps too, I think.
Nathan Bush: And I can imagine that you would be sick of writing and hearing about COVID What are you excited about In E commerce?
[Voiceover]: You actually hit the nail on the head. I was thinking about what topics I'm tired of writing about, and I wrote down in a note to myself, I hope I never have to write another lockdown story, because that means I won't have to go through one. So I, like a lot of people, am trying to live more sustainably. So I really, really enjoy covering environmentally friendly businesses. I think that there's a lot of. There's just so many different aspects that you can go into. You know, there's the rise of secondhand, there's the rental space, there's startups like apparel, who was on last year's top 50 doing textile recycling. It seems like every day there's some sort of new sustainable material made out of pineapple or mushrooms or something else. So it's a space where there's a lot of innovation and change much needed. So that's exciting. And I think at the same time, there's some really interesting and important questions to ask, like who is buying sustainable products? I think that it's still the case where a lot of them cost more than maybe ones that are more disposable or, you know, fast fashion or something. So there is a question of. Yeah. Of who are these products for and can we make them more accessible for more people? I think, of course, while it's great that businesses are becoming more sustainable, there's also certainly a lot of greenwashing happening. And it can be a little bit difficult if you're not an expert in that space to discern what is making a real impact versus what's just kind of marketing. So that's, I think, really important to cover and dive into and educate and inform people. The other thing is, I think there's a lot of coverage around sustainable fashion brands and not so much about sustainable businesses and other industries like electronics or furniture. So that's something that I'm personally looking forward to doing more of.
Nathan Bush: That's a good point. Really good point. If people are saying, I've got a story, I've got a great retail story that I'd love to pitch to either yourself or the team at Inside Retail. Have you got any tips on how to make a story stand out for you guys?
[Voiceover]: Well, the first tip is just to continue to email because if we don't get back to you initially, it could be that it's a busy day, it slipped through the cracks, you never know.
Nathan Bush: So you're a bit busy and you have tight timelines.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And sometimes it's the perfect story for right now. So if we don't pick up on it at first it's not to say that it won't be interesting later on. So don't take silence as a no is what I would say. My colleagues might hate me for that, but personally I kind of like it when people come back to me. The other thing is I think that it's really important and I hear this all the time from actually retailers when they're talking about how to acquire customers, which is like what's unique about your story and whether it's the founder's sort of personal background or it's a particular way of doing something that nobody else is doing, or an overlooked customer pain point or problem. Being really clear about what sets your business apart from any other is going to be really helpful for us to identify quickly if it's a story that we need to cover or not. Because it's a small team, we produce as much content as we can, but we only have a certain number of stories we can write up. So that's really helpful. I think as well if there are any big names, big names and big brands always help. We notice in terms of getting clicks. So if there's somebody backing your business who has kind of like is a well known person in your industry, definitely mention that.
Nathan Bush: Great tips. And you mentioned there that you are time poor. You're a small team doing a great job. So I would assume that giving as much information as in photographs, quotes, almost writing the article for you would be really appreciated and up your chance of success.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, certainly images are great because I don't know if your listeners know this, but at Inside Retail we have our daily news site where we publish a good handful if not more stories a day. We have a weekly print magazine for subscribers and a quarterly print magazine for subscribers. So great images also increase your chances of being featured in one of our print publications, which is always fun in terms of the quotes and all of the background information, I would say that is certainly helpful just as a bit of background. We have. So our site, we publish some news sort of for free. Those are just the breaking news stories often written directly off of a press release. So what you just said, that's exactly the kind of thing that is going to really help them write up a good story on your business. Stories that go behind the paywall that are written by me and some of my colleagues who write for the Inside Retail professional segment. That's how we refer to our subscribers. We do do interviews for every story that we write. The idea is that that we'd be looking to get Some further details about your business. We might also talk to sort of a retail consultant or analyst about like why that space is like a very interesting space or what the bigger trends are, you know, provide some more context around where this business is coming from and what the opportunity is. So in that case you can provide all the information, but we'll still need to do an interview.
Nathan Bush: You'll dig a bit deeper.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Heather, what's coming up at Inside Retail that you're most excited about?
[Voiceover]: Well, good question. As you mentioned, we just had Retail Week and I just want to highlight that in addition to top 50, we also have our annual retailer awards. So that was a really fabulous event where we recognized retail businesses bricks and mortar and online retail businesses in categories like customer service, loyalty program, omnichannel, that sort of thing. So you can find a news story about who won which categories on Inside Retail. We also held our virtual master classes where we interviewed high profile CEOs like Blaine Callard about turning around the freedom business. I spoke with Travis Wright at Tiger Lily about the new world of online. We also had diversity advocate Denny Tedorovich talking about how retailers can be more inclusive. So those masterclasses, they're one hour long interviews that we did, they are still accessible on our website for subscribers. So you can always check those out if you want to. And then this week we have an exciting series of articles about breaking the bias for International Women's Day. Let's see, my colleague Dean is writing about gender equal parental leave. My colleague Jo is writing about women who are working in traditionally male dominated roles like logistics. I think she's talking to a female forklift driver. And yeah, so I think, I think we've just got tons of new content every day.
Nathan Bush: That's great, that's great. You guys do such a brilliant job for the industry. So thank you so much for the diversity of topics that you cover and the range that you guys go to. Question for you, if people are listening to this and going, I am going to be in the 2023 top 50 people in E commerce, what tips would you say for them to focus on for the next 12 months?
[Voiceover]: Wow, what a question.
Nathan Bush: Just threw that one in the end.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah. I think that one area to focus on and not just for the top 50, but probably also your business, is how you can better understand your customer. And I'm going to give one example that is not that technical because I don't know the ins and outs of gathering customer data and analyzing it and all of that. But I think A great example of why it's important to understand your customer. Actually, you mentioned the lovely co founders, Hannah and Verity Tuck. Last year they launched this initiative called the Thoughtful Marketing Movement. I think maybe you've spoke to them about that, where they gave their customers the opportunity to opt out of marketing around Mother's Day because they were aware that it can be a difficult day for people for a variety of different reasons. And they got such a positive response to that. And I think it really showed how important it is to think about your customers as people. Not just people to buy things from you, but really being curious about their lives and how you can maybe make their lives better. Yeah. Without. Without really knowing what's to come in 2022. I think that is, that is no doubt a way. If you, if you kind of took that approach and had that mindset, I'm sure that you would have some amazing initiatives to talk about in your application.
Nathan Bush: Great example, great tip. And just picking up on what you were saying before. If you're not contributing at the moment to causes or the e commerce industry and what you can give back as well, I assume that's a given to try and give back as much as possible.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And you know, I would encourage people to. This is going to sound a bit contradictory. Of course you should not just think about it, but actually do something, but also do give yourself the time to think about how you can do it in an authentic and sustainable way. By sustainable, I mean you want to commit yourself to something for the long term. So finding how you can make the time for that and what you can really commit to, I think is important. And you want to choose something that you truly believe in and that you are happy to maybe devote some extra time to it, because that's what it comes down to ultimately in the end. So those would be my tips for thinking about your broader impact, but in a. In a meaningful way.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. Love it. It. Heather, if people have heard this and they want to get in touch with yourself or the team, what's the best way to do so?
[Voiceover]: Well, you can email me@heather mctomedia.com and maybe we can put that in the show notes or something. And the team, if you want to reach the whole team, we have an email address where you can just reach the entire editorial team at Inside retail and it's iRnews.
Nathan Bush: Perfect. Thank you so much, Heather.
Nathan Bush: I would say I'm going to let
Nathan Bush: you go and recover from last week, but by the sounds of it, you're just on to the Next thing and it just keeps churning.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, that's the life of a journalist.
Nathan Bush: Thanks Heather.
[Voiceover]: Thank you.
Nathan Bush: So if you now want to get your hands on a copy of the top 50 people in E commerce and maybe even one of those last copies of the the hard copy, just give top 50 people in E commerce a bit of a Google or follow the links in the show notes. You'll find your way through to the download. It's a really great way to be inspired and discover some people and brands doing great things. I have a copy of this above my desk of previous year's winners to go back on and have a look at. All right, three lessons that I took from my chat with Heather today. Number one and one that I resonate with so much. Give back professionally. I love that generosity is part of the judging criteria and I think it's so important and I've had so much benefit from it. We still have such a relatively small e commerce community in Australia. The best way to meet and learn from others is to start giving yourself. And you're hearing this every week with the people that come. Come on add to cart. I don't pay any of them. They give up their own time to share their knowledge and I love this about our industry. So don't worry if you don't know exactly what you want to do to start being generous and contributing back to the community. Start small, find your people and then eventually find your purpose. Number two, customer thinking doesn't cost a thing. Now despite all the growth figures and the innovation that gets presented to Heather and the judges of the top 50 people in E Commerce, simple customer centric tactics stand out to her as a sign of a great e commerce thinker. The lovely example of opting out of Mother's Day is perfect.
Nathan Bush: Now.
Nathan Bush: Even if you don't have a huge budget, it doesn't mean that you can't excel in understanding and serving your customers. It's free Number number three, tell your story. As you heard from Heather, the e commerce industry in Australia is continually growing and changing and organizations such as Inside Retail, they want to hear about it. So if you are doing retail differently, shoot them a note or a couple you know until they pick it up. They would love to hear about it and you never know what will come to you after you put your story and inspire others, what will come back to you. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday we will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and visit us at E Suite. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best ecommerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free e Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
