Julie Mathers: Sometimes I think I'm a funny old human. I take everything in my stride. Not a lot fazes me. The proverbial hits the fan. You've got to be able to get your hands dirty and figure stuff out because how you talk to your customers can make you or break you really quickly.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of
Nathan Bush: Add to Cart and Director at E
Nathan Bush: Commerce talent agency E Suite. Today's guest needs absolutely no introduction. She is like the Kate Middleton of Australian e commerce. She's royalty, especially after placing as the number one person in E Commerce multiple times including last year. And she recently sold her vegan, ethically sourced, cruelty free and low impact e commerce business Flora and Fauna to BWX earlier this year. Julie Mathers is the Managing Director of both Flora and Fauna and Nourished Wife. She's also on multiple retail boards and advisories including the National Retail Association, Australia Post and National Online Retailers Association. Nothing like selling your business and then doubling your responsibilities, right? In this conversation we cover the Flora and Fauna story to date, including how Julie took a Photoshop course to create the first Flora and Fauna website to now how Julie felt when she handed her business baby over to bwx. We also cover things such as the power of words in retail communication, why retailers are fighting over unit load devices or ULDs, which is something I learned and Julie's advice for any founders who are considering external funding or acquisition. And in true E Commerce lockdown style, we had a few Internet issues which impacted the audio at a few small points, but most of it is okay. But there's so much gold from Julie it's worth the little glitches, so hang on. So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Signet. Here's our conversation with Julie Mathers from Flora and Fauna and Nourish Life and bwx.
Nathan Bush: Julie Mathers, welcome to ADD to cart.
Julie Mathers: Thank you Nathan for having me. Absolutely delighted to be here.
Nathan Bush: It's been a long time coming. I've had you in my sights for
Nathan Bush: a long time, but especially when you
Nathan Bush: were ranked number one in top people in E Commerce. I was like, oh, I've got to
Nathan Bush: get Julie on The show, it's got to happen.
Nathan Bush: So congratulations. And now that's coming up again.
Nathan Bush: Are you going to, are you going to go for it?
Nathan Bush: Are you going to defend your title?
Julie Mathers: I'm in minds. I mean, I'm someone who will always give things a go, but at the same point, you get out when you're, you know, get out at your peak. Like, I'm a big Formula one fan, right? Michael Schumacher, amazing. He got out at his peak and then he came back and he just didn't do very well. So do I get out? I don't know. I'll probably go in again.
Nathan Bush: So you're terrified of becoming number two because you don't want to go number one. They're number two and they're like, oh, what happened to
Julie Mathers: 2019? Oh my gosh. This podcast is going to be about, this isn't my 2019. I was number one, but I couldn't pick it up because I just had Woody. I was in hospital with Woody. So literally like two days before had Woody. So I was number one then in 2019, then in 2020 I was number two and then I got number one back again in 2020.
Nathan Bush: That's like, that's like, it's probably a bad way of phrasing, but that's like getting Schumacher, like beating Schumacher when he's got an injury. They got you. They picked you when you, you kind of preoccupied and then you just like, no, no, no, it's mine. That's. That's where I belong.
Julie Mathers: It's mine. I'm coming back, I'm coming back. But now I feel like, do I want that? I don't know. We'll see.
Nathan Bush: It's a given. You're going for it. I. So much has happened since we last talked. We talked a couple of years ago
Nathan Bush: at a Shopify meetup and a lot
Nathan Bush: has happened, but most notably congratulations on
Nathan Bush: selling Flora and Fauna to BWX earlier this year.
Julie Mathers: Thank you. Thank you. Yes. That was, gosh, what a journey with being on hay. I was actually saying to my husband the other day, so I have my second baby, Alfie. Nellie said Woody then, gosh, don't even remember what they're called. Secondary Alfie in May last year. And I barely recall what he was like as a newborn. I don't know, it's just all a bit hazy because so much has gone on. And in September last year, so we knew to get flora and fauna to the next stage, we needed help because we'd been completely self funded from day dot and we Knew that all the things that we had in mind, we just needed a bit of outside help. So initially went out to go look for PE funding, and we had a few offers around that. And then Dave from BWX came and said, oh, have you thought about us? And we hadn't really considered because we didn't want to initially go and sell the whole thing. We were just looking for a minority stake, really. And then it was just talking today, it was kind of a really sensible and obvious move. And when he said to me, actually, do you want to come and run Floor and Fauna and Nourish Life? And I was like, well, that's a cool opportunity to grow something really huge in this industry.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Julie Mathers: And me, me being forever the retailer. And I love a challenge, like, I'm not very good at sitting still. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to retire ever. And so to get something else, which is a really great challenge, and to really, really, really drive change in this industry, that was just too great, too exciting for me. So. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And now, was it always your intention when you started Flora and Fauna, that at one point you'll be bought out or acquired or invested in?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, I always thought. I kind of think when you start a business, you. You do it for a few reasons. You kind of. You need to have an end goal of some description, which could be, I want to run this business forever and it's going to be handed over to my children or so on and so forth or whatever. That is absolutely a goal. Or, you know, I don't think anyone's ever got a goal of going, hey, I want to run this business, then at some point I'll close it. So for me, it was about growing the business. And then I thought, at some point, yeah, we'll exit in some fashion. So that was definitely on my mind. And it was more a question of when that was going to happen and also making sure it was done in the right way. And I think what we've got now is I still. I'm still running Flora Fauna, so I just now have a really good big backer. And that's how I view it. That's how I view it. Because I'm also not someone who's fussed about things. So the fact that someone else owns it versus me, I never look at it. I just don't even look at it like that. I still kind of feel it's. It's. Well. And Dave has completely empowered me to run. To run the thing. Like, he's like, no, no, you know what you're doing. I'm not going to come and tell you what to do.
Nathan Bush: We didn't buy this so that you could step away and not do anything.
Julie Mathers: Correct, correct, exactly. It's like, no, no, no, no. Keep doing what you're doing. Just do more.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, welcome to corporate. No,
Nathan Bush: if you think back to like
Nathan Bush: when you started this in 2014 and someone said to you that you'll build it into this incredible thing and sell it in what, eight years time, how
Nathan Bush: do you think you would have reacted?
Julie Mathers: 7, 7, 7. How would I have reacted? You know what? I'd have probably. Sometimes I think I'm a funny old human because I take everything in my stride. Not a lot fazes me. So I think I'd have probably gone, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. I'm quite a big believer in myself without being arrogant, but I do think that I can sort of get things done and get to certain places. So I know when I started and I sized the market up and I didn't think that we'd get to the size we have at all because at the time that was back in 2014, at the time, the market in this particular space wasn't that big or people, people really weren't shopping consciously at all. And that has absolutely shifted in the last last six, seven years. Yeah, I suppose, I suppose I look at it now. If someone said to me, oh, gosh, if you know you're going to build this amazing business and you're going to sell it again in 5 years time for X amount, I'll go, oh, okay. I don't know. And it's just there's not a lot. I don't tend to plan that far into the future and I very much take things in my stride and as they come and I'm very practical and pragmatic about stuff.
Nathan Bush: It's funny that you say you don't plan into the future though, because you had incredible foresight there. Into around sustainability, obviously, but also E commerce, like even back then, you know, it's not decades ago, but it's still. E commerce. Isn't what E commerce is today.
Julie Mathers: No, definitely not. Definitely. Oh my gosh. If you go onto it, this is the awesome website where you can look back at websites from years gone by and yeah, if you put in flora and fauna like when we started our website, it's atrocious, but it's also. I cherish it and I'm really proud of what we started with because we started that on the back of the back packet and we spent I think maybe a couple of grand on. It was a bigcommerce store at the time and that's before BigCommerce where had kind of made their resurgence back here and I took myself on a Photoshop course which cost me 200 bucks just so that I could learn enough to do banners. But that because we couldn't afford to hire anyone and that's how we started. And yeah, E commerce has moved on significantly. Well in that time we've got afterpay, afterpay, klarna, zip, pay, blah blah blah. All of those payment methods have moved on, shipping methods have moved on. Same day delivery is now becoming more common and then in terms of just being able to navigate, search all of the stuff that just the user experience on site, on websites, customers demand more and we have to deliver to that. So yeah, it's moved on significantly in that time.
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Nathan Bush: Did you build that first BigCommerce website yourself?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, I did. And you know what? I did, I did and I absolutely love doing that. I'm such a big believer in getting your hands dirty. So whenever I email someone, sorry, interview someone, I always make sure that they're a doer and if I'm not very good with people who are sort of not doers, if the proverbial hits the fan, you've got to be able to get your hands dirty and figure stuff out. And a great example is New Year's Eve this last year. New Year's Eve this last year. Not that anyone was having an amazing new year, right? But Tom and I were sat at home and anyway something had happened that day and basically all the products disappeared off the website and it's about 11:45 at night and luckily I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna name any systems or tools because it really wasn't anyone's fault. But anyway we managed to get hold of someone because I'm going there must be Someone who can help us with this. And we managed to sort it out, but that is the reality of it as well. And it's not. This is not an industry where you can just turn off at 5 and be gone. You're on. You're on constantly. But that's part of the fun too.
Nathan Bush: So when you're now managing a much bigger portfolio and I'm imagining a bigger team, where do you allow yourself to get hands on and in the detail now?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, it's. It's various bits. So, yeah, I've had to sort of adapt a little bit for me and we've had to plug some. We've had to put some roles into FNF to basically get me out of the detail. That'd kick you out pretty much. And it's been great. We've had some, like, phenomenal people. The 4 and 4 team is phenomenal. And so I've been happily kicked out, actually, because they're really good at what they do. And in fact, isn't it, you know the phrase surround yourself with smarter people than you? We have some really good people who are very smart and doing more than I could ever do, so that is the ideal place. So really what I'm doing now, which is what I should be doing, it's the expertise around the industry, the brand, and it's the foresight and the vision and the strategy and it's what we were just talking about before, around the ambassador stuff, it's that stuff where I add value and it's across both. Both businesses, but also at a higher level than that as well. But just this is just about where are we going as an industry and as a business? So it's actually a really interesting time for me as well, because it's quite exciting for me because I do want to. I actually do want to step out of the way. Yeah, I kind of like stepping back in every now and then, but it's not a great use of my time.
Nathan Bush: So to bring others in on the conversation that we were having before we jumped in, you said that you still sign off on every piece of communication that comes out from Flora and fauna. Why do you do that to yourself?
Julie Mathers: I do, I do, I do. Because I think it's really important that the. One of the most important things to us is our brand and it is communication. It's how you talk to your customers. Because how you talk to your customers can make you or break you really quickly. And Flora Fauna is hugely built on community. We have a very passionate community that we love. And cherish. And so we can't take that lightly. And I suppose one of the challenges for me is I've got seven years of history with flora and fauna and so a lot of the brand sits pretty much internally within me. For me it's very important. It doesn't take me that long either, but it's very important. I do check all communication because words can. It can be. It can be the smallest thing. It can be a word that can provoke. Yeah. And we have to be very, very careful about that. So. Yeah. So I'm pretty. Pretty focused and obsessed about that stuff. I do remember that when I was at Coles, I'm pretty sure the marketing director when I was at Coles, he used to sign off on every piece of comms as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Julie Mathers: So it depends. I think it depends and I could be regarded as a bit OCD in this. But equally, our brand is our most precious thing. It's super precious, actually. Our customers are. Our customers are our most precious thing and we cannot abuse or mistreat our customers in any way.
Nathan Bush: I love what you said there around words being really powerful. And when you're reviewing communication that's going out to your customers and making sure that it's offering value and then also getting your brand across in the best
Nathan Bush: light, what are you really looking out
Nathan Bush: for in terms of words? Like what are some of the warning signs that you look out for?
Julie Mathers: Oh yeah. So. Well, I always think it comes down to your values. Right. And it depends. Business to business. So we have eight values at fnf. They're all about being positive, fun, kind, non judgmental. Those are really things. Those are the things that are very important to us. Nourish life has a different set of values. So it's about using words that meet those, your own set of values. So as an example, Thorn Fawn is a vegan business. So we're very passionate about animals, about the environment, about humans. That's our sort of little strap line is kind to the planet. People and animals. If you look at PETA P E T A, they're also really passionate about animals too. But we come at it from two very different angles. And a post that's on their Instagram, because I saw one before and I actually find it very difficult to read them because they're. They come at it from a completely different angle. We would. A post that's on their Twitter or Insta or Facebook would never, ever, ever be on Flora and Faunas. And we just come at it from different ways because there's our like they are super confronting and it comes down to your purpose. Our purpose is to help everyone make better choices. Everyone, everyone non judgmental. And we have to do that in a really positive, fun, non judgmental way. So we look out. So, so that's what I'm looking for. This is why I think values are so, so important to a business and they should be instrumental in. They should just be part of the, part of my DNA and they should be part of any, anyone's DNA who works with us as a business. And I've worked at too many businesses where they go, here's our values and stick them on a piece of paper and then just put them in a drawer and no one ever looked at them. Right.
Nathan Bush: If you're really lucky, they'll get them put like on a sticker, put them on a wall like in a hallway you have to walk past every day.
Julie Mathers: Yeah. And if you're really lucky, you'll get a mouse mat with them on. But. Yeah, and that's the thing. And it's, it's for us, we have them on a billboard in the office. But it's more than that. We just talk about them in everyday language. Everyday language. And if, if we go through posts or emails or whatever else and I change the language on anything, I'll tell the team why. And we talk through it or most of the time we just talk through them together. So then I can say let's not use that word. It's not very positive or inclusive or whatever it is. And it doesn't necessarily even need to be words. It could just be the way we phrased something.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Julie Mathers: So yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for.
Nathan Bush: It's a really great example of how to use values in your business that actually mean something when you're using them to guide decisions and changes and feedback. Where you're actually referring back to them is really nice. How did you come up with those values? Was it a collaborative thing or was it straight out of Julie's head?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, no, it was a collaborative thing actually. I mean most of them have been driven for me, let's face was collaborative.
Nathan Bush: Was, was collaborative and I was leading the collaboration.
Julie Mathers: Yeah, it was collaborative with myself. I'm definitely agreed with what I said, I think just over the years. So when we started, we started off as a cruelty free beauty store and what we were about, our mission when we started was to give people a place where they could shop cruelty free beauty, not test on animals. And that was it. That was Kind of our mission. That. That's what we did. But you change and you have to. I think as a business, as you grow, you have to be flexible to change over the years. Because where we are now is very different to where we started, actually. And you have to listen to your customers and you have to have foresight into the future and listen to your environment and so on and so forth. And we've kind of grown into our purpose, so we very much grow into our purpose. And I can remember having a really good chat. So we used to work a lot closer with Facebook, actually, than we do now. But I used to get invited to a lot more than I do now, hence Facebook.
Nathan Bush: If you listen to Facebook, what have you said to them about them in the press lately?
Julie Mathers: Probably a lot, actually, but. But I remember going to. I used to sell the Small Business Council for Facebook, which is really good. And we went to dinner once, and there was this great guy that was over from the States, and he was a massive brand builder. And I plonked myself as everyone else was on the. On the schooners. I plunked. I just value. I think when you run your own business, you value. Every interaction is very, very important to your business. So I plonked myself down next to him and we just started talking about Flaunt Fauna. And he actually, that dinner there, he actually really helped me, in my mind, focus what our purpose was at fnf. So he was brilliantly helpful at helping. And from that, that's where I went. That's like. I took what he suggested away and I got it into a purpose. And from that, I really pulled out all of our values and our value and it's what we're about. And it was very much. We'd already been operating, so it's a lot clearer to identify what our values are because it was stuff we were already doing.
Nathan Bush: Was there anything specific from that conversation that. That's kind of stuck with you?
Julie Mathers: It's the word. I think it might have been the word everyone. That was the thing that helped me. Help me clarify my thinking and what we're trying to do. Because it takes a long time. It's one of the things that. It took me a really long time to just consolidate who we were and to really kind of condense that into a few words. And for ages, if people said to me, what do you do? I'll go, well, we're kind of a store and we sell stuff, and then it's all vegan, but then we also. We sell for the beauty but then we sell this and then we'll sell things and I'll take forever to describe it. And everyone's like, what do you do? And I think it's. You can never spend too much time thinking about this stuff. But then when you've got it, run with it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So one of those things that is so funny is that that word everyone
Nathan Bush: isn't an uncommon word.
Nathan Bush: It's not a special word. But then when you put it everyone against Flora and Fauna and how you guys communicate, all of a sudden you go, oh yeah, of course. It makes total sense. So that's the power of words, right?
Julie Mathers: Power words. Power words. And it really helps your thinking because then you suddenly go, well, we are helping everyone and we're not judgmental and we're helping everyone make better choices. We're not saying they're the ultimate best because the ultimate best choice is that really none of us are shopping for anything really. And we're all growing veggies in our gardens and you know, it's. And we're doing local stuff and. But we're helping people. We're helping everyone make better choices. It's. Yeah, that's what, that's what we're about.
Nathan Bush: Awesome.
Nathan Bush: Now, you mentioned your time at Coles,
Nathan Bush: but you were previously at Masters and apg, so you did your time in corporate land before starting Flora and Fauna,
Nathan Bush: which I think a lot of people
Nathan Bush: struggle with, if I'm honest, as everyone wants to jump into their startup or their own thing. But I mean, I had similar experience, super retail group before starting my own thing. And for me it really helped position what I want this to be and what I don't want it to be. At the same time. What did you take from your corporate experience that you brought into Flora and Fauna?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I. Corporate has its pros and its cons. Right. But I would not have done what I'd done without having had that experience at all. And I took so much it. Actually, you know, when I started fnf, it took me a little bit of time actually to adapt my thinking away from corporate because I think I was so used to just going. What I. What I used to do is I'd almost put boundaries and barriers up from up I'd already put them in place. And I think that's part of, part of the problem with corporate. I'm being so generalist here, but part of the problem is there are so many processes and so much processes, so much red tape in place that half the time and I'd worked for someone else for such a long time that you put barriers up yourself because you go, I won't bother asking about that because it won't get across. And I had to lose that. And it took me a little while to do that. And even from posting on social media, I had to think about having worked at Coles and Masters. You know, your posts are very considered and if corporate affairs get involved, Jesus. And it took me a while to shake that and to go, actually, you can talk in a very different tone of voice and that's okay. So it took me a little while to kind of shake it off. But what I did learn is, oh my gosh, I learned so much just in terms of being able to run a business. And actually that trading element, like, I'm such a big trader. I love trading and I love retail. And I started off my retail career at John Lewis on their graduate scheme in the uk. Geez, I love that store. That's right. And I think I've learned something from every single business I've been in, whether it's John Lewis with customer experience, because that's what they're exceptional at. And I took that from day dot and the fact that I can remember from there, if someone walks into your department, you greet them. It's like, head up. Do not have your head behind the counter. Nothing that no admin should be on the shop floor. It's stuff like that that sticks with me today in terms of your customers, the most important person, like, greet your customers, talk to your customers. And it's that kind of stuff which you completely translate to digital as well. It's like, have the best experience. Like don't try and make. Don't make it hard for them to find out what they want to find. So there's stuff like that. There's even basic stuff like consumer law. Just know your consumer law. And that's probably the thing that irritates me most, actually, about a lot of businesses that start they aren't clued up on consumer law. And I see it being flouted all the time. And it's one of those. It gets my goat. I'm just there going,
Nathan Bush: is that your goat impression?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, that is.
Nathan Bush: What parts of consumer law do you see flouted most regularly?
Julie Mathers: I was going to be really inappropriate, then I caught myself and won't. But discounting, Discounting set prices, don't fudge prices. Yeah. Some large online retailers who do that, I don't know. But you know, you can't inflate Prices and then discount them and you can't do that stuff. And it, I think for me, it, I find it very difficult from a values perspective because it's, it's everything that we don't stand for and one of our values is to be authentic and that stuff is just not authentic. So. So, yeah, I see that happening all the time. Or a product arrives in. We haven't, you know, retailers don't establish the price for 28 days and then discount, you know, stuff like that. But that's been really helpful for me, having worked at Woolies and Coles. Actually, one of the other things as well is just managing a team. It's, it's really simple things like actually having managed a team and putting KPIs in place and. Yeah, just bringing in some of that more rigorous structure that you should have in any business.
Nathan Bush: Yes.
Julie Mathers: And probably one of the best things actually was, and Tom and I were very focused on this from the start, was making sure that we put the best systems and processes in place. And even though the systems might be a little bit too big for us, where we were at the time. So we put Magento 2 in, just not a small task. And we migrated to Magento 2. And even though we were probably a little small for it at the time, absolutely the best thing to do because we have grown into it and we are set and we've done that. We've done it. We don't have to think about doing it. We're never going to do it again and we can just scale from here. So even some of that, just more commercial thinking, I think really helped.
Nathan Bush: And if you frame it as you get to kind of cut your teeth and make your mistakes on someone else's business is always a nice thing, isn't it?
Julie Mathers: Yeah, exactly. It does help. Does help a lot.
Nathan Bush: I don't know about you, but for me it was like for a long time I was great at fighting process because I got so frustrated by process. So I was always fighting against the process and the rig moral and things like that. But then when I started my own business, I realized how important process was, that I implemented too much process and had to bring it back again. So I was kind of like, it's the balance between the two worlds.
Julie Mathers: It totally is, isn't it? Process is really important, but you can have efficient, nimble process and you do have to have a process, but it doesn't have to be laborious. With 50,000 approvals,
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Nathan Bush: Hoo ha.
Nathan Bush: To read more of LSKD's story and to see other case studies, visit the customer section on shopify.com you can also hear the full LSKD story back on episode 76.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned before about you're very generous with your time and your industry knowledge and you're on the advisory committees of the National Retail Association Australia Post. Nora, in those conversations, can you take us behind the scenes? What is some of the like the hot topics that people are discussing and they need help with at the moment?
Julie Mathers: All right. Ulds. Ulds? What are ulds? Cages. Aussie Post cages.
Nathan Bush: Oh, I didn't know it was a big topic.
Julie Mathers: Oh yeah, it's a massive topic. Oh, it's a nightmare for retail. We can never get enough. So. And then you end up having to. You end up having to palletize. It's actually a really big challenge. And Aussie post, poor Aussie post there, you know, they're just going into a, a five day of not picking up in Vic. But I totally understand that they have to do it because they're facing the pandemic like everyone else. And, and actually five in those five days. Two. Two of those days are not business days.
Nathan Bush: So like three business days.
Julie Mathers: It's three business days. Right. But yeah, this has been a problem for years. It's just getting enough cages because some retailers store them and then they get stuck in networks and we end up having to. Everyone ends up having to palletize orders. But then because they're palletized, you can't double stack in the trucks. Then the trucks aren't being efficient. So that's one. If anyone's associated with operations, I probably know exactly what I'm talking about. That's a fairly big one. Oh, what else do we talk about? I mean a big chat amongst everyone and it has been for the last year and a half is just Covid and probably a big piece is forecasting and the holy grail of where we're going to go next. No one has a crystal Ball. And how is this all going to look when we're all let out? Online sales suddenly going to plummet in store sales? Something going to increase or are people going to be nervous about shopping in store? Don't know.
Nathan Bush: What's your gut feeling on what you're hearing and seeing? Do you feel most retailers are optimistic or pessimistic?
Julie Mathers: I think everyone's. I think because we've been so long into this, everyone's sort of just a bit realistic now.
Nathan Bush: I thought you were going to say exhausted.
Julie Mathers: Oh, I'm definitely exhausted. I think we're all pretty exhausted. But I think also from everyone I've spoken to, people are kind of planning for any scenario and being cautious as well. And it's more difficult. I think it's definitely more difficult for those with stores to some degree. Being online, you can scale up and down a little bit, a little bit easier, but when you've got stores, that's more challenging. But I think everyone's been quite realistic about it. I do think that what will happen is we'll just have a lot more people going towards the service industry and hospitality will suddenly take a great big hike. And, yeah, I spoke to someone this morning, actually, who's in the uk, but in Australian, they booked their flights to come out here at Christmas and I was like, oh, you're brave. We don't even know if you can yet. But people are desperate to actually just get out and do something. So, you know, maybe retail sales will struggle a bit on the back of that. Not sure.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, who knows? Who knows? Who can pick it? I remember at the end of 2020, there was a lot of, like, who can forecast what 2021 sales will look like? Because we all felt we were coming out of it and 2021 will be free. But how do you forecast against what 2020 was? And like, now we've got to do the same again for 2022 because no one knows again.
Julie Mathers: What do you think? What your. You've got your ear close to the ground.
Nathan Bush: I feel like we've got two camps.
Nathan Bush: I think you're two camps about people who have stores and who don't have stores. There's a huge divide between the two. There's also that divide between people who are trying to. Who had all systems and everything implemented before COVID hit and those who are playing catch up. Because I think if you're trying to play catch up now, it's almost like trying to get your house renovated. Now there's a builder shortage. It's really hard to play catch up with both talent and with partners and everything like that, it's actually the worst time to be playing catch up.
Julie Mathers: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And then those who were ahead of the game, like yourself, really reaping the benefits of it. And I don't think I've heard so much talk of people looking for acquisition and investment E commerce at the moment than ever before.
Julie Mathers: Is that E commerce retailers looking for investment or to be acquired as opposed to. Yeah, right. Yeah. And also money wanting to invest.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And looking like the amount of investment firms that I've seen private equity firms kind of spin up who are wanting to know who's out there looking for money is incredible at the moment.
Nathan Bush: And so many brands that we speak
Nathan Bush: to are saying we're trying to get a team ready because in the next six months we're going to get acquired and we want all the pieces in place before we do it.
Julie Mathers: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? It's really interesting times because you've also got to be really conscious about. We are in. I'm not going to use that word, but we're in. We're in strange times. Yes, we're in strange times. So if you've had a huge surge in sales, like. Yeah. What's going to happen afterwards?
Nathan Bush: That's it.
Julie Mathers: Yeah, yeah. I mean, our sales have definitely increased, but it's not been like tenfold.
Nathan Bush: Well, yeah. And yours wasn't just driven off the back of COVID Right. You had a lot of elements leading into that.
Julie Mathers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just. It just. It gave us a. It was. It was a nice little surf break that gave us a little bit of a ride. But that's. But that's about it. All the elements are in place and it's just kind of helped us catapult forward a little bit. But I've seen some businesses where they've just gone from zero to. And with that comes so many challenges.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah. We were speaking to the guys from Matt Allen from Tractor Tractor Ventures the other day. Kate Morris is involved with and they've got a really interesting model where they can help fund businesses without taking equity, essentially. Having been through the process of acquisition and I'm sure there were many sleepless nights. What advice would you give to others who are considering going down that path?
Julie Mathers: Oh, gosh. Yeah. It's actually really tough to go through it. And I think the biggest challenge is the emotional piece. You're talking about your baby, basically. And people will ask you questions that might irk you and you have to and people want to make a decision on your business within 15 minutes. That's the reality of it. They'll talk to you for 15 minutes, maybe half an hour, and they'll ask you some very pointed questions. And you're there going, I disagree. In your mind, you're going, I disagree, I disagree. But that's. But they have hundreds and hundreds of acquisitions that they're looking at every, every month, every year. So they don't have time to really spend a lot of time. So my advice is try and if you can, try and take the emotion out of it, I would also say try and be very, for your own mental state. Just keep going with running your business also. Just almost just have it as, yeah, that's happening at the side, but. And that's the one thing we did. We just went, yep, yep, it's happening. But just keep going. Because you can get caught up in the process quite a lot. And I know lots of other people have been in this exact same position because, you know, it's like, right, we're going to put the IM out and that's exciting. You, you know, we get the flyer out, oh, these people want to read the im. No, that's amazing. And you kind of get ahead of yourself and you go, God, I'm going to get like 20 offers. This is so exciting. And you know, you do. You get caught up in the whole process. And the reality is people have a nosy people, there's lots of tire kickers, right, and they fall away for many, many, many reasons because they've got to do their own due diligence. And although you think your business is the best business in the world, it might just not meet their investment portfolio or they might just not see the growth in it that you do. So you have to be, as much as you can, try and not be too emotional about the whole thing. Treat it as a thing that's going on at the side, but do not stop, do not stop running or growing your business in the hope that this happens. Keep going, keep going. If it happens, brilliant, that's great. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. Keep going.
Nathan Bush: That's great. That's really, really nice advice. Do you remember, and you may not. Do you remember any particular question or comment that really IR you that you went, oh, I just.
Julie Mathers: No, I do, I do, I do. And it did hurt me. Someone was saying it was about. Because obviously we're ethically minded here. And it was. Someone was just talking about, I think they said all this vegan thing. Oh my God, here we go. I just don't see, I just don't see it being scalable while growing or, you know, and it did it. So that was it. I probably got the question, you know, it was there or thereabouts, but they did, they couldn't see the scale. And it did me because I'm there going, hang on a minute. Australia is the fastest growing market for veganism in the world. More so just per capita here than anywhere else. It's growing. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: I don't think I'd be able to hold my tongue. I'd be like, okay, well why are we having this meeting? I'd be out.
Julie Mathers: Yeah. There was a lot of heavy breathing and humphing from me, I think through that. Because this was all over zoom as well. Right. So much. And it's. And it's that kind of stuff. And you just go, well, you've not done your own research. And actually throughout it, because we were in the position where we're going, we love fnf, so we weren't in the position. I know lots of people who they want to sell because they're desperate to get out. We weren't in that position. We just wanted help to get us to the next stage. And so actually that's probably one thing I would say, if you're looking for, for funding, do it when you're in love with your business because it puts you in a very different mindset as well. Because I was looking at, when I was going through all of the meetings, I went into it going, no, this is much about, can I work with you? Because I only want to work with people who I think I can work with. So I think also don't wait until you just go, I've had enough. I want to get out. Because it puts you in a different mindset and go into it thinking, no, no, no, this is a two way street. It's. Anyone I ever interview, I always give them lots of opportunity and blurb about flora and fauna or nourish life now because it has to be a partnership. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I suppose it opens up many more options for you too, is that you wouldn't have thought that at the end of an acquisition you'd come out managing two brands.
Julie Mathers: No, exactly. I didn't think I'd double my workload, which I didn't think could be doubled, but apparently it could.
Nathan Bush: That's great, Julie. We have covered about a third of the topics that I would have loved to have covered, but it's been so awesome. Talking to you. I better let you go and get back to that double workload.
Nathan Bush: Before we do, can you give us
Nathan Bush: any hints at what's next for yourself?
Nathan Bush: Flora and Fauna or bwx?
Julie Mathers: Oh, yeah. Gosh. Okay, so fnf, what have we got going on? Well, we launched this very cool ambassador program which I'm very excited about, where we're leveraging our community. We also might have a brand campaign coming up, which is really cool. Which is really, really cool. So that's. Yes, that will be coming up really soon, which I'm very excited about because we haven't done. We haven't done one of those at the scale before, so that's kind of neat for us. I'll keep doing more of what I do. Got a couple of cool investments, so now it's a nice position to be in where I can actually invest in some other ethical companies, which is nice, which is great for me and it's kind of interesting for me as well. And yeah, I'm just keeping doing more. I just love what I do and I'm not very good at not being busy, so I'll keep doing more.
Nathan Bush: That's so exciting for our industry to have people like yourself, people like Kate, Nick at afterpay is like, you guys have been so successful and so deservedly so and been rewarded for it, but it's not like you're going, all right, cool, I'm moving to Hawaii. It's like there's so much reinvestment and support back into the community to help others tread the path as well.
Julie Mathers: 100%. I think it's. I'm someone who's not bothered about stuff. I don't, I mean, I'm sitting here in shorts that should have gone about three years ago. Even my mother in law said to me, what are you wearing? I went, they're fine. Need to be sewed up a bit here and there.
Nathan Bush: But I live in the country.
Julie Mathers: Come on, I live in the country. Who cares, right? So I'm not, I'm not fussed about stuff. Stuff doesn't make me happy at all. Family, friends, delivering stuff makes me happy. Making a change makes me happy. So being able to help others and get behind really great businesses, doing good things is exciting for me and being able to add whatever value I can add, if I can, to that as well. I think that's a good position to be in too. So yeah, that's awesome.
Nathan Bush: Naturally, if anyone's heard this and they go, I've got to get in touch, what's the best way for people to
Julie Mathers: reach out to you or probably don't Instagram message me. I never look at them. I look at them about every three months. I don't bother with that. LinkedIn is probably easiest way to get hold of me. Of course come and look@florafauna.comau and nourishlife.com come and look at those websites and contact us via Facebook and Insta and all that kind of good stuff. But if you want to get in touch with me, LinkedIn's the best way. That's where I'm mostly active.
Nathan Bush: Beauty thank you so much Julie. Really appreciate you sharing your story and what's coming up.
Julie Mathers: Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Nathan. It's really good.
Nathan Bush: I honestly didn't want that conversation to end. I felt like we could have talked for ages and in true Julie style, she was more than happy to continue past our one hour recording slot. But I didn't think it would be fair given how much she's got on her plate at the moment. Now there were so many broad business and personal lessons in there, and many that I will take with me, but here are my top three practical takeaways. Number one Respect your words. Julie says how you talk to customers can make or break you, and indirect communication, especially online, can be interpreted in so many ways and potentially undo all that beautiful brand building work that you have done over the years. If you feel that your copy isn't landing right with your customers, it might be time to step in like Julie has and review all communications and ensure that they align to your brand. Brand values Number two Value Every interaction we heard from Julie about the conversation that helped shape the flora and fauna values. While everyone else was busy on the scooies at a big event, Julie beelined it for the most interesting person in the room, struck up a conversation and what that conversation turned into the values for flora and fauna those little moments need to take advantage of. Whether you're a founder or you're just looking for inspiration in e commerce, make the most of those moments. Number three do you know consumer law? This was Julie's big bugbear. More specifically, do you know what is required to advertise something as a recommended retail price, a regular price, or a discounted price? It's not always as simple as it seems. Make sure you check out the ACCC's Price Price Displays page. That's the ACCC's Price Displays page for a really quick refresher which outlines what you need to do around those pricing to make sure that it holds up for consumer law. Well worth the refresh. To finish up, I have three resources for you. Firstly, if you're a first time listener about to cut and you want to stay up to date with new episodes, head over to addtocart.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll let you know every time a new episode drops, as well as giving you my three takeaways from each episode and a link to the transcripts so you can know that this is an episode that you want to dive straight into. Secondly, if you want a weekly roundup of the best e commerce case studies, tools and research, sign up to the High Five Friday newsletter which is delivered to inboxes at 8am every Friday morning. I read all the e commerce news and send you the bits that I think you can take action from. Sign up at 12 high 12h I g h.comau forward/high five and the last thing if you are looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, head over to esweettalent.com you we are a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands. Check it out. Sign up to the email and get in touch with me if you want
Nathan Bush: to discuss your next move.
Nathan Bush: Until next time, thanks for listening and keep those customers adding to cartoon.
