One CRM to Rule Them All? Klaviyo’s New Vision for B2C with Suzy Nicoletti, Jay Wright and Jane Cay

Nathan Bush: It was the world's best kept secret until this morning.

Jay Wright: And then we're able to kind of all benefit from that collective knowledge of the community. So that way no individual brand could ever be smarter than thousands of brands working together.

Suzy Nicoletti: It's the shiniest number you'll find. Cause that's our North Star. So have we made you money today?

[Voiceover]: Because as you say quite often you can drain these ideas. It's actually just having the tech work with you too. Welcome to add to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.

Nathan Bush: So you might have seen our Instagram and LinkedIn feed last week and it was a massive week for me. I was in Sydney with the Klaviyo team as they announced a massive release CRM for B2C. This is an extension of the Klaviyo product that you know with marketing, service and analytics combined for real time personal personalization, smarter decisions and seamless growth. It was an absolutely massive week which included my own fanboy moment of having the chance to interview the legendary Ned Brockman with the Klaviyo team. But the highlight was being able to get the most amazing crew together for a live in person podcast recording immediately following the big Klaviyo announcement at the Sydney Opera House. Keep in mind that this was the most secret squirrel of all releases which no one truly knew about, including today's guests until Friday morning. And we recorded this podcast immediately after the announcement. So what you will get right here is the raw immediate reactions from some of the most impressive people in the e commerce industry. All right, I am not going to tease any further. I have not one. But I have three guests to introduce you to today before we get into our chat. First up we have Susie Nicoletti, the Managing Director and Vice President of APAC at Klaviyo. We've gone straight to the top here. Suzy is responsible for growing Klaviyo in the region and was previously Managing Director of Twitter Australia and a key member of Google's early sales operations in Australia. Joining Suzy is a return guest, one of the most customer and team obsessed people you will ever meet, Jane Kay. Jane is the founder of bird's Nest, a 20 year old retail and e commerce success story based in Cooma in regional New South Wales that now employs 120 locals in a town of six and a half thousand people. And last but not least, we have Jay Wright who is an E commerce growth expert and mentor to a community of over 3000 e commerce business founders at E Commerce Equation, Jay's mission in life is to give established E Commerce business owners a clear and compelling path to scale without being reliant on a third party. All right, let's get into it. Thanks to the team at Klaviyo. Here's our conversation with Suzy, Jane and Jay unpacking all things CRM for B2C, first party data and customer experience in a very, very special add to cart.

Nathan Bush: So, Suzy, we've just been at the Opera House for a very big announcement from Klaviyo. Can you tell us what is it?

Suzy Nicoletti: Yes. So today was a phenomenal event. We have had this in the works for quite some time, but effectively we are basically rebranding klaviyo as a B2C CRM. And so the big change, right, we've always been known for our data. We've always had a great marketing automation, reputation and good customer base. And so the big change for us is we are now entering into service so that our brands can get marketing analytics and service all in one, very easy to use platform.

Nathan Bush: Okay, so that's a lot.

[Voiceover]: It is.

Nathan Bush: And we've just been at the announcement as well. Jane and Jay, we're going to get your thoughts on it soon, but I just want to dive into the product a little bit further just so our listeners get a really good understanding of what's changed. So let's start at the high level. A CRM. B2C CRM.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yes.

Nathan Bush: What's your version of CRM?

Suzy Nicoletti: I think our version of CRM is that we're really trying to solve the challenges that we're seeing uniquely in the B2C community. So we're building uniquely for the idea that there is a massive. Well, there's two things. There's customers that want a much deeper level of personalization. So our customers today are basically saying, we want to see personalization on acquisition, we want to see personalization on purchase, we want to see personalization on retention strategies, and we want to see personalization on customer service. So if we think about how a customer builds loyalty, loyalty can be destroyed on the service side. So I think that was the first thing in our head when we thought about this. The second thing then is, okay, well, let's look at our B2C brands. What's happening there? And what we're seeing is disconnect. So I think what a CMO is needing, what a head of it is needing, what a head of service is needing is all important to understanding the customer and getting that level of personalization, but they can't see the same thing. Everything's working in silos. On average, we have 18 pieces of technology. If you look on Twitter, or X, whatever we're calling that now, you should know this. I should know this from my time there. I keep saying with Twitter because of all the years it was Twitter, but people are listing their stack and that's not sustainable. So if we're going to deliver for the customer, I think what was at the heart of what we built is how do we create something that uses that Klaviyo data layer that has always been unique to us. It gives you that unified customer profile. And how do we build so that you have marketing and you have analytics and now you have service and you can talk both pre and post purchase to that same customer?

Nathan Bush: It's a huge shift.

Nathan Bush: Tell us.

Nathan Bush: The line that got me in the presentation was the only B2C CRM that's available.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: So I hadn't thought about it this way before. So all CRMs have basically been built for B2B and transitioned into B2C worlds.

Suzy Nicoletti: Exactly. And so what we're seeing with that, the feedback we're getting is when you're built for B2B, it's difficult to scale, it's difficult to keep up with those millions of transactions that are happening every day in real time. And so it's slow. So the feedback is. It's slow. We're not able to personalize. It's very manual. And Klaviyo is built for speed. It's built for real time. It's built for the combination of the data we already have about your customer and then our predictions with what we believe will happen in real time. So that's our superpower. So we want to lean into that more and give brands better speed.

Nathan Bush: It's a huge level up. Jane, as a retailer, what was your first impressions? Because it was all brand new to us this morning, Literally, it was the world's best kept secret until this morning. And even preparing for this podcast, we're

Nathan Bush: like, we need you to come in

Nathan Bush: and speak about something, but we can't tell you what it is that you're unveiling.

[Voiceover]: Well, it was very exciting. I mean, I do love a bright and shiny thing. You know, my team's always like, if it's new and bright and shiny, I'm always like, ah. And I love tech. So, you know, obviously for a company that's obsessed with their customer data and we have so much of it, it was Very exciting to hear. You know, we're obviously a Klaviyo customer as well, you know, that they were taking it one step further. I think our theme song this year is Simplification, you know, and I think for a lot of retailers out there, we are. Our tech stack is really complicated. So if someone that we're working with is simplifying our tech for us and helping us create, you know, have a conversation that is more one on one with our customer all the way through that, you know, obviously we've been using Klaviyo as a marketing tool and you know, if that's something that we can take to the, you know, we obviously use a different product at the moment for how we service our customers. And yes, it was a B2B tool that we've adapted. So yeah, I think I've got lots of questions. Like first up I was like, this sounds really interesting. I want to know more, I want

Nathan Bush: to hear your questions. But first I want to get to Jay's reaction. What was your thoughts when you first saw it?

Jay Wright: Look, I think it seems really logical and I think a couple things that are really exciting for me is just the thought that we can reduce a lot of friction. You know, most of the brands I work with don't have gigantic teams and they don't have necessarily even a CRM specialist in house. You know, they often aspire and do grow to that point. But for a lot of people, I don't think they can, hand on heart, say they're maximizing what they could do in Klaviyo. And I think a big part of that is friction and siloed data. So I think it's a really logical move to roll more of that in for two reasons. One, you can just reduce the friction between having siloed data and having to go off platform and do predictions on one tool and look at service stats on another and try and integrate that with marketing. And I think the other thing that I'm really excited about is just directionally where the whole world is going with AI. Having really clean data sets that you can easily access is going to enable a lot of these automations to flow a lot more seamlessly. So we've been trying to have really solid data hygiene in ad accounts for a long time so you can sort of leverage AI to read data correctly and get insights from it. And I think there's just so much information, we don't want more information, we want more insights. And I think that comes from having like really well organized data across the business units, not just these siloed pockets. So to me it was like one of those things you see and it's like, oh, this is so obvious when you see it. This should all be under the one roof. But yeah, it's awesome to see it

Nathan Bush: happening now because you had time last year, didn't you, with ab, the founder and global CEO of Klaviyo. Did you have any inkling that this was coming?

Jay Wright: No, he didn't spill too much on like the roadmap. He alluded to it. But what he said was in 2012, when he started Klaviyo, he had the thought that a lot of the interactions that happened between a business and a customer should be more automated. And that was sort of the big belief that he had. And that's the shift that they took from just being a database to actually going into sort of providing an email service. And this seems like a logical extension of that. Like if you think of where the service platform's going to go with self service and even AI agents within the customer support offering that Klaviyo is now going to provide, that just seems like another step in that direction of that original belief that he had 13 years ago. So it doesn't seem like too much of a derivative from that original concept that he had. But I couldn't get too much out of him, Nathan. He was pretty tight lipped, as you know. This has been a really well kept

Nathan Bush: secret, the best kept secret. There's some jobs on the line here. Yeah. The service side of it I think is really interesting. And the slide that I really loved this morning, Susie, was that one where you said you've got options as a retailer around how you service now that you never had before and you've got the option now of self service. And I think the stat was that 90% of customers actually want to self service if they have the opportunity. You've got the layer of AI service and then you've got the element human service. And I've never seen it broken down like that, which I thought was really interesting.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: How are we going to help retailers choose which one to activate and use at the right time?

Suzy Nicoletti: Oh, you've cued me up so nicely. It's all about the data, right. It's really understanding your customer more deeply. And I think there's two parts of that that are interesting. So when you get the opportunity to build something new, you get the opportunity to do a lot of research to understand what the B2C customer is or brand is thinking and what the Customer wants. And so the overarching theme that our chief customer officer was taking us through is, yeah, 90% of customers are like, hey, let's, I just want the information. I want to get back to doing what I was doing. And I think, you know, nothing, nothing too magical there. I think what we then thought is, okay, how much of this, you know, to your point, can be an AI agent, Right. What percentage of your queries can get to you quick and easy? You kind into the customer hub, you log in, you got a question, there's a quick answer, you're back on your way. And how can we keep growing and understanding that the more we can answer in an automated fashion, the better? Right. So I think that was, it's really, we've created the components so that in the same way we've empowered our brands to learn about marketing, you can now also learn about your customer service side as well. And then the third part of that, which is interesting is again with the data. How can you have a customer coming in and think about where it's an opportunity to answer a question and introduce something new. So how can we evolve service to be a revenue generator and not just a cost center? So that's the end game. But obviously we want to solve for that 90% need in the first instance while also giving brands those insights and those anecdotes. They need to think about how that experience becomes more seamless.

Nathan Bush: I feel like that has been talked about a lot over, say the past five years around how to turn customer service from a cost center into a revenue generating team. But I don't see a lot of people doing it really well. What about you guys, Jay? I might say you've got a good view across everyone.

Jay Wright: Yeah, look, I think we've seen like the prolification of some new tools that play in this space. So I definitely think there's like a latent, like want for people to do this. And there's been some like Shopify apps and add ons like auto editing for example, that have kind of come from nothing and sort of shot up. And it allows people to kind of like edit just like a simple app. Like you don't have to email in and ask to change your shipping address when you got it wrong because it was the default on your Apple pay. You can just change that yourself, like such a simple thing. But there's obviously a huge demand for that from retailers because it's a huge cost center, you know. And you know what we've seen from some of the analytics in that app but you are able to then upsell people and say look, hey we're changing it, we've still got space in the box. Do you want to add something? So it definitely appears that people want to do it but I think they need to be enabled with tech to do it because it's not something that you can just code yourself. So yeah, I think we are going to see more and more people moving to this like self service model and also the AI service model because like Jane, you would know the majority of tickets are like where's my order?

Suzy Nicoletti: Absolutely.

Jay Wright: That's the majority of tickets really. Where's my order? You know, is it.

[Voiceover]: Have you received my return?

Jay Wright: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: Have you?

Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah.

Jay Wright: When do I get my credit? You know like a lot of the stuff is like pretty linear query response, repetitive stuff. And so what I think that does is really clogs up your CX team doing kind of mundane stuff. And I think a lot of people think oh we'll be able to fire our entire CX team. I don't think that's really what's going to take place. I think it's more going to be your CX team can then spend longer with someone who's like what style should I wear? Or like what goes with this? And actually move upstream to sort of that revenue generation activity. So even if the tools themselves aren't like driving hard numbers, just freeing up the human power to do more higher order tasks and provide that like human level of service where it's more needed like selling or, or providing that first time touch point. I think that's probably what we're going to see here.

[Voiceover]: Yeah, the use cases are pretty exciting when you, you know, it certainly made me start dreaming about all the things that you could do. You know, as a wardrobe wing bird. You know I love the, you know, talking about that AI element because as you say quite often you can drain these ideas. It's actually just having the tech work with you to you know, we've got so much great data but then how do we. When she's on the product page, she's looking at one of our customers favorite features on our product pages. Will this suit me? And so she's told us about her profile and we've categorized all our products for what body shapes it suits, what occasions it suits and so she uses that. But imagine if she was interacting with someone that was logged in that had that information about that person, had that information about product and could have that conversation with them. Then like I was just starting to like you Know, my brain was going,

Nathan Bush: I was very excited even on the way over here. And we can take this part out if you don't want to be in. But you were saying, like, what I love about what I do is that I've built this amazing community of people that I get to work with every day. And that's the part that I love. We also have to run an E commerce business.

[Voiceover]: Part of the side gig. Yeah, that's a sidekick. Part of the community that I really love is the, you know, not only our team, but obviously, obviously the women we serve. And I think, you know, as founders, we are obsessed with the problem we're solving for our customer. And we've got all this great data and they've trusted us and told us lots of things and then there's all the stuff that we collect just as a byproduct of them visiting and, you know, but quite often it's like, how do we turn that into insights and how do we use it? And I think as a business, we have used it really well in the service of our customers and made a lot of business decisions around what sizes we include, where we take our range, where we'd open a store, where we do a pop up. Like we've used our data to do that. And I think just more recently, I think we've probably got smarter about how we use it to acquire customers. Partly because we've joined EE and cleaned up our campaigns and gone, oh, we've got a lot of people in education, in our, you know, we should really be having a teachers campaign and a, you know, farmers campaign anyway, so I guess I'm still excited, but I do have questions.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, let's get into them.

Nathan Bush: What questions have you got? Let's go.

[Voiceover]: Okay, so I'm sorry, Susie, but I'm one of those really weird to see clients that's not on Shopify.

Suzy Nicoletti: We love that.

[Voiceover]: I know, we're like practically Shopify sponsored here.

Nathan Bush: So we love everyone.

Suzy Nicoletti: We do.

[Voiceover]: Yeah. So look, I guess, you know, I'm always asking, so what's the roadmap for other people being able to play? And who gets to play in this space now and who gets to play in this space down the road?

Suzy Nicoletti: Who are we letting in?

[Voiceover]: Yeah, who are you letting in?

Suzy Nicoletti: Who are we playing with?

[Voiceover]: Who gets invited?

Nathan Bush: Who are the cool kids?

[Voiceover]: Susie, outside the play card?

Suzy Nicoletti: Oh, my goodness. Who gets a Fast, fast. I'm. All right, so it's a good question. And if I can make, can I make one point and then I want to go into who comes in, who gets vip, not vip.

[Voiceover]: Well, I'm not entitled to.

Suzy Nicoletti: I want to see just one other thought before we close out Customer service is thinking back across 20, 24. On all of the roundtables I sat in and the things I listened to, one of the themes that came up over and over was, what do we about Temu, what do we do about Amazon? What do we do about, like, all this price pressure we're getting? And one of the common themes was like, well, we just make service cheaper. And one of the challenges that was always put forward in these roundtables was, no, that's actually the differentiating point. Like the second you make that, you take that out, then it's a zero sum game. So that as much as we are trying to automate and make it easier, I think it's what I actually personally love the most about it. Thinking about the challenges that face the Australian retail landscape with price pressure and forever discounting and people making service less. This is a cool opportunity to make service personal and to make service more. So I think that part can be fun. And I also think, again, thinking about our chief Customer officer coming to Australia to launch, we hope and we are confident this market will innovate the best. So looking back at you, Jane, I know there's some cool stuff you can do with us, which is a good segue. Okay, so who's coming in? So naturally, when we think about scaling products out and how we release, that's one of the most important parts of how we're successful. Right. We want to take everything that HQ's got coming, you know, 220 features last year. This is obviously a big shift for the company. We want to make sure we get the right insights and we build in line in a way that's fit for purpose. We are starting with Shopify simply because it's easier for us to get that information and that data. So naturally that becomes the right evolution. But we did hear today over and over and over again, I did a sweep of, you know, what was the buzz that was the number one thing, because there's a lot of Shopify in this market and then there's also a lot of not. And so it's great feedback and I think it is. Although it's not a direct answer for you, it is one of the pieces of feedback we're going to take away as we shape this, this product for the market.

Nathan Bush: Lovely. Do you have any questions, Jay?

Jay Wright: I have so many questions,

Nathan Bush: Buckley.

Jay Wright: I just want to get my hands on it. You know, so I think so much of the devil is in the detail. So looking at the demo it's, I probably just need to dive in and see what's going on. But I think there's a lot of questions around commercials. Obviously with the SMB market which we service, there's you know, like, it's a pretty strong consideration of like which tool to choose. I think there's a lot of hidden costs that people neglect to think about with their stack in terms of cost of solid data and tech debt kind of cost if things aren't being developed at the same rate. But I know those are to come, but very excited to kind of hear about the commercials and then I think it's just really about how these features are rolling out because what I've seen with some apps and that sort of thing is say I saw with the customer hub, customers are going to be able to initiate a refund, which is a great self service option. But a lot of people will want to opt out of that because they might want to not have friction around changing a shipping address or not have friction to add to the order, but they actually might want to create some friction to be able to like have a one on one conversation with people, see if there's something they could fix versus just straight refunding them. So I think my question is really around like the nitty gritty, like how is this going to roll out? What features are we going to have in the settings? So when is it rolling out? Is it going to be in Klaviyo accounts around Australia from the time this podcast goes live, it's literally now.

Nathan Bush: Go.

Jay Wright: I'll be right back.

Suzy Nicoletti: Log on in. So we have three customers on it right now in Australia and we are then after the launch going to increase our number of beta users. So I think that's piece one and I know we spoke about this at the event. I think the second thing we're going to do, yes, we want brands to have access to play around, but we also are going to run a series of roundtable listening sessions where we're going to do demos and make sure we get the feedback we need. And I even invited you to one directly. So our founder and CEO and our head of engineering are here together in two weeks. And so that's actually one of the important steps in the process is we're going to demo, we're going to look at each of our key core communities that we serve. So you and I spoke a little bit about self service and kind of your entrepreneur SMB community and what are the needs there? And we want to demo and give AB and Greg, who runs engineering, that feedback directly. So again, as we build, each of our communities gives that opportunity to shape the product, which I think is super exciting. AB always looks at this market as a place to get a sense of innovation and, and think about how we build together. So I think that's sort of our next step and then we are going to look to scale more broadly in probably July timeframe. So Q3 is when we're going to scale it to the market. So that's what I have to go off for now. But I think what you can expect is we'll start to publish more around what the three brands are experiencing. So we get that to the market, we will open up the beta and then we'll have opportunities to get product feedback directly and to our heads of engineering.

Nathan Bush: And I think that's a really interesting one for you, Jay, because as you're working with your community of clients, now that you've got this information in the back of your head and it is rolling out throughout the year, how does your approach to potential changes to tech, especially in the next six months, change? Because I was speaking to the Klaviyo team yesterday, we had a day and I said, look, we're already seeing the first two months of this year. It's RFP central. Like people have come out of the gates pretty hard with high hopes for 2025, big plans, big moves. And I don't expect that to slow down. Obviously you've got something like this drop on us now and you go, oh, okay, do I wait and see or do I make the moves that I was going to make anyway?

Jay Wright: Well, I think it's a pretty similar approach. Right. So we've got such a large footprint into E commerce in Australia that there's always going to be some early movers and some innovators and we get the opportunity to kind of see the results of that and work with people who are wanting to be at the forefront of any particular area. And if it's successful, then we're like right there at the front line and we're able to very quickly disseminate that throughout the rest of our community to give them kind of an edge over the market. So it's sort of this hive mind process where there will be people who are CX champions and they're Klaviyo natives and they've got CRM teams and they'll be able to pioneer and then we're able to Kind of all benefit from that collective knowledge of the community. So that way no individual brand could ever be smarter than thousands of brands working together, if that makes sense. But it's a pretty similar approach where you have a staggered look at what's going on. Some people will try it in a beta format and then you roll it out more broadly when you start to see success. And if not, then you kind of protect everyone else from having to waste their own time and money. Go through the pain testing. You know, someone cuts the pain first. That's right, that's right, yeah.

Nathan Bush: I mean we heard from, in the session this morning, Greg from step one, who's been on the POD before and I've known him for many years and he's great. Well, after you educate him on how to say klaviyo, I did.

Suzy Nicoletti: I'm going to steal yes or no CEO. How good was that?

Nathan Bush: Can you explain that?

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah, my God, it was amazing. So basically as a CEO, if you come to him, the only things he'll ever say to you are yes or no. So what we love about that or I guess what that's made his job more easy. So you can't come and say I have a problem and use that time to brainstorm it out. You have to do all of the work upfront and show him enough data, insights and a business case to be asking what it is you're asking. If not, his third option is throwing it away. So that's good, put it in the bin. But I guess that kind of dovetailed back into us because we provide his team with all of that data, all of those insights so that when they come to him, there is that full end to end overview of what the situation is. I'm going to try a yes or no CEO a day, 24 hours, put it in the calendar, we'll get a claim.

Nathan Bush: He said it was like a week when they first brought it in as like a week of no's to everyone. So good luck to you.

[Voiceover]: Back to the drawing board. I love that. It would take some adjustment, some serious adjustment. There's a lot of, you know, let's talk it over.

Nathan Bush: Lovely. I want to talk about the step one because apart from yes or no CEO, his retention stats were pretty incredible and it's all public knowledge now because they're public, publicly listed company recently released their results. He said how many million were they doing? I can't remember off the top of my head. It was over 50 million in the first half of the year, I think. And with a team of 12, which is absolutely incredible, but talked about some of the retention stats that they were getting. Around 64% retention. I think I might be quoting wrong.

Suzy Nicoletti: I think it was 100 million in revenue with a team of 10. And his ROI is 65 times.

Nathan Bush: So I'm wrong on all levels.

Suzy Nicoletti: But you're so close.

Nathan Bush: I'm in the ballpark.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: I was a good listener.

Suzy Nicoletti: You were great.

Nathan Bush: But what I loved about that is that he talked about the ROI on Klaviyo and how he's measuring that. And I'm going to misquote a stat again. He said something like 64 times ROI on Klaviyo. And I know that's one of your key metrics. How do you measure return on one piece of technology? And I know that's a key stat for you and your team. How do you explain it to your team?

Suzy Nicoletti: Well, here's the good news. It's in the dashboard.

Nathan Bush: There you go. There's a secret to it all.

Suzy Nicoletti: You can log on in and there it's the shiniest number you'll find because that's our North Star. So have we made you money today? How much money and for how much you have spent? How much did you get back? And that's typically the language that we find our B2C community cares the most about. So that's what we make easy for everyone to digest. And that's probably him seeing those stats. And we've. We have built with this brand and we build with a lot of our brands with that North Star in mind. If, like, how much revenue have you made and what's the roas and how can we make that better or get that in line with where it needs to be? And then the secondary metrics that I sometimes become more prominent with point solutions are below that. We can look at that. We can look at click. We can look at kind of the micro detail, but really we just keep that North Star prevalent and that's what helps us grow with our brands.

Nathan Bush: Is that stat important for you, Jane?

Suzy Nicoletti: It is.

[Voiceover]: It's just very confusing because every platform you go to tells you what they've brought you. And there's just a lot of crossover between all of them because if you added up the revenue, gosh, it'd be

Nathan Bush: like, you wouldn't be here, would you?

[Voiceover]: I would not be here. I'd be on some tropical island. So, yeah. So I think that's the challenge for us is, you know, it's the old story of attribution around. I mean, email is Incredibly important for us as a business and has been, you know, we turned 20. We're so old. We turned 20 last year. And so we've been, you know, nurturing this community of people for a long period of time and they are actually, as part of coming into this, we had a Klaviyo audit this week and was just so excited. I was like going and getting your

Suzy Nicoletti: school report, you know.

[Voiceover]: Did you pass?

Suzy Nicoletti: Oh my God, with flying colors.

[Voiceover]: Yeah, we had all these like, excellent, excellent. I was like, this is great. I feel like I'm back at school

Nathan Bush: getting Jane needs to pay more attention.

[Voiceover]: Yeah, well I did I actually because, you know, I haven't spent a lot of time in the platform, so I did I have this way. But we do have someone that does spend a lot of time in the platform, I promise. But yeah, so it was just really exciting to get this scorecard and obviously, you know, to see those numbers which we do look at definitely. But it's how you look across all your, you know, your marketing platforms and how, I mean, Jay, is that.

Nathan Bush: Have you sold attribution yet?

Jay Wright: I mean, I think a lot of people are conscious now of what is in the attribution, like is it a seven day click or is it a one day click? And everyone's had the experience that Jane describes, which is like you total up all default attribution from all these platforms and it's five times greater than your monthly revenue and everyone's just claiming everything. So I think it's really trying to figure out what is incremental. Is this an incremental dollar from investing in this platform or is this a attributed $? So I think there's been a lot more education in the market about attribution, particularly post iOS 14. And in a world where cookies and data are starting to get a little bit more limited, that people are aware of attribution and they're starting to ask deeper questions like what's my one day click attribution versus a seven day click on Klaviyo for example? Or how do those emails get in there? You know, if I'm having to pay for ads to get the emails in there, it's gotta be some sort of blending of the actual who played what role.

Nathan Bush: Right.

Jay Wright: You know, and you can do some pretty sophisticated marketing mix modeling and you can kind of get into multi touch attribution. But for a lot of retailers, they're not that far down the rabbit hole yet. And they're just sort of using sensibility, I think to kind of weight things and make a judgment call.

Nathan Bush: That's crazy. Sensibility.

Jay Wright: Is that a word?

Nathan Bush: It'll never work. Everything we're talking about coming back to data, right? And I think it's really important that we have a bit of an honesty session around first party data and what it means because we've been talking about this for such a long time. Right. And it feels like we're coming into this next level of maturity and ownership of first party data for retailers and it goes well beyond a marketing asset into being a business asset. Question for you, Jay. Do you feel that the retailers that you're working with are taking full advantage of the first party data that they have access to?

Jay Wright: No. I think it's undeniable. Like most people, if you ask them if they felt like they were maximising what they could do with their first party data, like for example, in their Klaviyo account, no one would say yes. And I think there's a big chasm where people, you know, select a tool and they start to use it, sort of maybe they implement the first 20% that you could with the platform and they get kind of easy wins and then there's a big chasm until they're at a certain level of scale where they can put more attention onto it. And often that's hiring a resource or a role where that's part of their job description. And so I think there's no shortage of like first party data. Like we're collecting it, it's there, but I think there's a massive lack of insights and usage of it. And so I don't think we necessarily need more data. I think we just need to be figuring out how to make it more frictionless for people to use it because it seems like this big undertaking. It's very time consuming. A lot of stuff's quite manual and siloed. So yeah, to me it's more like the insights you get from the data and the applied action from those insights where there's a big deficit, particularly in the early stage in SMB market.

Nathan Bush: Is that what you're experiencing, Joan?

[Voiceover]: Oh, 100%. I mean there's no shortage of it. It's actually just incredibly overwhelming. And for someone you know, I think as a business owner and founder you are obsessed with and we just to be clear, we never talk about first party data like that just sounds so clinical to me. I know, maybe we just don't talk like that. But we talk about our emails. Yeah. Or customer information or our voice of customer that we did. Or our style profile. That we've collected on our customer. So we talk about, we never like until this week we haven't, you know, we don't throw around the term first party data, but we do talk a lot about all this information we have and if only we could just put it all in one place. And we have at times, you know, actually given it to people who've come back and put it in these incredibly sophisticated segmentation tools and brought it back and told us we have like 25 different Personas and like all that, you know, and it's super interesting when you do that stuff. And obviously that's getting more and more powerful because that's was years ago we did something like that and you could almost, you know what's going to be available now around being able to do that. I think the overwhelm is real and the silos are real. And so I think any tool that helps us be smarter with that means we are going to both service our customers better and they're going to have a better experience with us as well as we can go out and find more people that we will be the right person to solve their problem because we've used really good insights to go and find them.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, I'd love to unpack what first party data actually looks like because I love the way you've put it that we actually don't talk about our customers that way. Really. Like it's only when we're getting all marketing or tech nerdy that we kind of turn to first party data. Obviously you've got emails, we all want emails, we all want phone numbers, we love names, we'd love a bit of buying behavior. What is at the core of what good first party data looks like for retail? What do you think the minimum standard is, Susan?

Suzy Nicoletti: I think the minimum standard is data that goes beyond like a one dimensional perspective. Right. So I think when we go back to why this company was started and what excited me most about it, it started from a problem back in 2012 that our founder realized that there was all these brands out there doing great stuff. They could only capture data that took them from, from A to B in a very small silo. It was too siloed, it was too disconnected. And so what he set out to solve or what they set out to solve was effectively how to make everything connect. Right. If your data's not connecting, if it's not honest, if it's not. So the first thing is like how do you create connected data? So that was really the first thing I think they set out to solve is, okay, we're going to build a business again, no products back in 2012. We're going to be a data company and we're going to help brands and marketers really understand the full customer journey. So I think that was piece one. It's connecting all of the points of the customer from, you know, purchase and behavior so you can see what's happening, you can really get a sense of your customer. So I think that's the first thing. The second part is, is it in a place where you can take action? Right. And that's where the AI component comes in. So it's great to have it. What can you do with it? Right back to Jane's point, wow, we've got all this data everywhere, but can you take action? Is the second thing. And I think that's, that's the reason AI is so important to us and that's been integral to the tools and the products that we built. And then the third thing is speed. How fast can you take action? How real time are you going to get a report a week later? And then a trend has moved on. How quickly can you move? So I think we think about those three areas, the connectivity and the speed being really key. We think about data and we think about how we continue to build on top of it. And we hope that we win the right to be the point of record for a lot of brands and we win that trust with the data that we have. I think that's where we really want to go as a business.

Nathan Bush: I love that phrase, win the right to be the point of record. Yeah, you gotta fight for it.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah. Love it.

Nathan Bush: Jay, in terms of retailers that you're seeing, really taking that next leap ahead in owning that first party data, what are you seeing that's really interesting of those who are taking control, I think

Jay Wright: just to some of those points around first party data, I think the mistake that I see is people sort of do the minimum and then when they get a long way down the track, they've probably realized that when they get to scale, it would have been way better if they could have collected a little bit more than the basics. So, for example, if there's a brand that sells to male and females, they might scale quite a bit before they realize we should start trying to get some of this data. Because when you do have the scale where it makes sense to turn your attention to some of these activities, often you've then got a task in front of you to go and kind of restructure your data. Or restructure how you're going to approach things. So I think just having a considered approach and thinking about where do we actually want to end up. Even if you don't have the ability, it's kind of overwhelming right now to go and figure out how we're going to split everything for say males and females or go down that rabbit hole even just thinking about, well, what are the logical kind of hierarchies that we need within our data to be able to best utilize it now but also in the future. So I think that's definitely one thing that better brands are doing is just thinking about what is the actual use of this.

Nathan Bush: I think, and just on that point, Joe, before you hold the thought on the next one because I know it's going to be good, but on that male versus female one, I know that's just an example Ye but I'm really interested in implied first party data versus explicit in terms of. Not in terms of opt in but in terms of. We're not talking about a tick box here. When you order to say yes I'm male or yes I'm female.

Jay Wright: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: Are you saying about using signals through either the buying process or the data that you've already got?

Jay Wright: Yeah, I think that's definitely aspirational and there's definitely, you know, I think with some of the stuff that's rolling out with KDP and the Klaviyo AI layer, I think there'll be a lot more of that implied tagging that takes place. Frankly, the majority of brands right now are, are explicitly asking people in the pop up are you male or female, you know, and I think that's probably the majority of the zero party first party data that they're collecting in that regard. But one thing I'm really excited for is to make it easier to tag and get applied data because for example, say like a brand like Tile Cloud, they have a quiz as well and the quiz is like what style are you trying to create? And they'll walk you through a quiz and that's a manual process but you could probably infer that based on the tiles they're looking at or the reference jobs that they're looking at in the blogs. And you could probably make some pretty good inferences and then suggest, well, based on, you know, it looks like you're going for the modern coastal style. Would you like to add our preloaded sample pack to your cart and get the tiles for 25 bucks where now it's quite like there's a bit of friction for the customer to actually be drawn through that. And I think reducing customer friction and sort of having an ambient observation of them, rather than needing them to make

Nathan Bush: some, like, pretty, like, here's some more data, right?

Jay Wright: Yeah. So to me, that's something I'm really excited about, is that people will have more ability to, like, have this more implied accurate data versus having to do these manual forms or quizzes that a lot of us are kind of dependent on right now.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

[Voiceover]: And I think, I mean, as we were talking about, we have a style profile that we ask our customers for, which we did do really early. It was almost too early. Like, we had all this great data and I think probably, you know, it's. Now we've got the tools, we can leverage it even more. But it's a big investment for a customer to fill out something like that, like a style profile around all the favorite colors of body shape, what she'd wear, what she wouldn't wear. So I think if you're doing something like that, there has to be. It's like, you know, will you date me before you marry me Kind of thing. And, you know, and, you know, often there's like, for us, there's a style profile at the end of that. I mean, a style guide at the end of that. So she gets her own personalized style guide. And, you know, I think that is often having something that, that you're getting out of the process. And then of course, you know, your style recommendations and a curated range. But yes, the more we could now infer from her behavior on the site now than actually making her go through that whole process, that's definitely something we're looking at.

Nathan Bush: Do you have to incentivise your customers to fill out that style guide or they just love you so much and they see value in it?

[Voiceover]: Well, they're incentivized because at the end of it, they get their own personalised style guide. So that says, look, well, this is your body shape. So this is our recommendations around. You know, if you want to show off your hips, you do this if you want to make them. And then we curate a whole range based on an algorithm that takes their profile information and our product information and says, here's the best. This is the Love Heart score on all our range. And here's your best Love Heart scores kind of thing. But now we're all still doing that. That's all in house. We have three software engineers in our team. It's not possible. For us, it's distance. Where we grew up from, in A time when there wasn't and all these things we could plug in and do. We had to build everything from scratch.

Nathan Bush: I just love that you've got a love heart score.

[Voiceover]: Yeah, totally. It's like the perfect match. We are like the matchmaker between a girl and her, like, ideal outfit. And we're like Dexter in, you know, what was that Perfect Match? You know, remember that show in the

Nathan Bush: 80s I had went to somewhere else with Dexter. I'm like, that doesn't feel very bad.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: No.

[Voiceover]: Do you remember the Perfect Match?

Nathan Bush: Perfect Match, Sure.

[Voiceover]: Stammers Dexter could be wrong.

Nathan Bush: I was thinking the TV show first and I was just. We talked about how this is no longer a marketing effort. First party data. It needs to be owned by the organization. And I think what you said, Suzie, there shows the importance of it. So we've got to fight for the right to be that single source of truth there. How do you see it working? Busting out of the marketing silo of owning customer data and affecting real business decisions? Once it is organized to your point, Jay, and accessible, where do you think it can make an impact throughout the organization?

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah, well, I wouldn't say we're busting out. We're growing. We have new products coming. And effectively what we want to be doing is continuing on in marketing. Right.

Nathan Bush: And going back to we still love

Suzy Nicoletti: you, we still love marketing, still super important. We still have a big job to do there. And eventually we want to be at a place with our product. And Emily, our CCO touched on this today where we're, you know, we're making recommendations based on everything we know about your customer and we can get to the point where we can say, okay, the right message on the right platform at the right time is this right for each customer engagement to make that matter and make that relevant. And with the lens that less is more. So a lot of the reasons that our brands come to us is they're sending to everyone all the time about everything, right? So we want to pull that back and make that relevant. And why that matters is I think as we enter into service, we're going to let the market lead. Right. So our research indicates something about, hey, the first place we probably advise people start is how can we reduce, how can we automate and automate the number of tickets and really free up that time? And that's what our early beta testers are giving us back. But the more you know about your end to end customer base, the more you can drive your business. And I'm okay to talk about Meshke as a great example. And that helps us understand their customer base. It helps us talk to their customer base in multiple countries, on multiple products, on multiple launches. And they actually went beyond that in the US they examine their data to actually think about where they set up their three PL warehouse. Right. So we're starting to see more and more that the more you can come into the data the more you can understand business decisions. You know, how what products you're stocking, what products you're not and when and where. And so I love that 3 PL decision because that's one of our more public ones around or maybe not. That's one of our more public decisions around, you know, how we're now starting to impact business structure. Right. And inventory and service effectively. So we hope to see more in this direction once we get an additional layer of data to play with.

Nathan Bush: I could imagine Jane, just the visibility that you're get in an ideal world around forecasting and new designs and trends that are coming through that your customers are really interested in will be invaluable for you.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yes.

[Voiceover]: I mean I hadn't actually thought about it in the context of Klaviyo to be honest. In a sense we look at our customer, we have lots of tools around looking at our sales data and what's working and what's. You know, we've got some really good tools in that space. Just honestly I guess I hadn't put. I mean things are like where to place a 3 PL I can imagine. You know, like, you know for us we're making decisions about where to do pop ups around the country and so just understanding where we've got the most engagement with customers, where we're sending a lot of parcels, where that kind of decision I can imagine looking at the data I'm making, I feel like the tools around what decisions you're making around your range, separate is separate and we have separate tools for that. Unless you this tool is just going to do absolutely everything. I've got only one place I need to go now.

Nathan Bush: I'm just announcing a new clayvio roadmap.

[Voiceover]: We're starting it right here, right now. I'm just trying to imagine my designers in Klaviyo which like I'm finding them hard enough to just get them into the sales report tool. So. And I've had to make it very visual and very pretty to give you

Nathan Bush: where my mind was going. Is your, your example before of we've got a really good view now over our different customer segments of teachers, farmers, et Cetera and being able to kind of go, all right, let's, let's pull that segment and really understand what's hot with them at the moment from pulling that purchasing data in there. Maybe what they're browsing but not buying.

[Voiceover]: Yes, right. As to inspire the designers.

Nathan Bush: Yes, to inspire. Let's keep the designers out of Klaviyo.

[Voiceover]: Hey, I think we should.

Suzy Nicoletti: I mean I'm open to anything here today because we're this innovation market, so we can pitch this in two weeks.

[Voiceover]: Okay, I'm following.

Nathan Bush: Now you're following. Jay, what about you? Do you see any bigger business decisions around using this first party data? If it is organized correctly?

Jay Wright: Yeah, I think so. What I see a lot of is people will go to other platforms to get some insights and try to come up with some predictions. So say someone might put all the data into lifetimely and they'll figure out like logical next purchase. Then they'll take all that data and they'll set up an incredibly manual process, six or ten different iterations of their post purchase flow based on external data that have gone and analyzed. The challenge with that is that that data is quite static. So you might do that analysis in October and everyone goes and buys in Black Friday and that might not be fully representative data throughout the year. So I think one of the things with these business decisions that people are making is that if it's not an integrated, unified kind of data set, often to merge them you take these static snapshots and it's not living and breathing and updated lists and segments. So I'm pretty excited about that, just being able to do away with like, all right, let's go do an analysis project. Go and do this massive manual implementation and it's quite, I wouldn't say it's once and done, but it's not dynamic. So I think a lot of business decisions are made in this snapshot of data and not really able to have like a live dashboard, if that makes sense to make daily good decisions versus just doing like a once off project.

Nathan Bush: Because I think that's how you've got to think about it, isn't it? That this is live data that is going to be the central source of so much that we do. And I talked about this with the team yesterday. But even things, what Amazon is doing is saying, you know, now we have all these purchase intents across all our platforms and all our users, we can kind of see what customers are doing and what's part of the purchase cycle they're in. You combine that with your first party data and we can tell you which customers are hot to trot in the next 30 days. And we'll target them on Twitch on Prime to get you that sale. But that requires first party data to be organized but also accessible to those third parties to have that relationship, right?

Jay Wright: Yeah, 100%. I think we're seeing like, with all technology, it usually starts with the big tech companies and it sort of trickles down. So what you just described with Amazon is essentially using like AI machine learning to signal intent and serving very targeted content to people that are most likely to buy. Meta's done the exact same thing, changing from manual campaigns to Advantage plus shopping campaigns. And with Apple stopping the passing of data through to Meta, they've had to pivot again to using AI and their first party data of people's activity on site to serve relevant ads that it thinks will convert. So directionally, you would imagine that that technology will come to each and every one of us where we can look at what's happening on our site and we can show the best next product or merchandise in a specific way or show a specific offer, just like Amazon and Meta are doing. And I think that's why I'm quite conscious of having organized uniform data. And you kind of do need to choose a record of choice to apply this to because if it's solid, it's just never going to happen.

Suzy Nicoletti: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: Now, Jane, we know you are the master of the customer experience. Don't raise your eyebrows like that.

[Voiceover]: I don't know that I'm master of anything, actually.

Nathan Bush: Was there anything today around that you thought from a customer perspective that you looked at and went, oh, we could totally change the way that we do this for a customer in terms of the experience that a customer gets either when they land on our site, when they get their product, when they're browsing the site. Is there anything that kind of triggered for you?

[Voiceover]: Well, I think, you know, for us, we talk about the fact that we're a wardrobe wing bird, so we're like by her side. Our magic moment is if she finds the perfect match, falls in love, feels amazing. So the dream for us is that that process of meeting us, falling in love with her outfit is seamless. And there were so many like, aha. Moments today of just going, imagine, imagine if we could surface that at just the right moment when, you know, I remember because we were a bricks and mortar store and when we went online, it was 2006, I started talking about going online. People were like, no, Jane, like, no one's gonna buy anything online. Like you've gotta try jeans on. Like you can't. Like no one was online in Australia when we're talking about it. And we finally got launched in 2008 because we had to build the whole body thing ourselves. There was no magenta, there was no Shopify, there was no nothing. So we built this thing and I remember building this website that was like, it's gotta be like the store experience. When the person walks into the store, it's like we're having a one on one conversation with her. And we know what drives a woman when she comes into that. It's either like, oh my God, the dreaded school reunion or like I just love pink, just show me all the pink. Or you know, see this body, this is what I want to do with it. And so we knew the motivations and so the whole site was built like it was not. Not dresses was shot by body shape, shop by color, shop by occasion. You know, Google was so confused. I remember when we launched because they were like, we can't find the dresses page. Like we had so many dresses pages because it was the like the red dresses page and that, you know, so anyway I had to completely rebuild it so Google could understand how to read us. But so from the beginning we've been obsessed with this one on one conversation with our customer. And so this, you know, it's just so exciting that the text like catching up to what we actually want to try and do, you know, because I think that's what we all want to do is help have this incredible like you with her, like you're her wing bird by her side and you are, you get her and you're taking her through that process. And so the more that we can have tools that help her us absolutely get it right for our customers in the right moment, that is just gold for us.

Nathan Bush: The thing that came to mind as I was watching today is it marries so nicely to what Shopify are doing at the moment. And I know, Shane, sorry, just cover your ears for a little bit around the new customer accounts and the control that we're giving to customers to personalize and have access to all their information at one spot. To your point Jay, where they can make the call on when they want things, how they want to activate things. It's all in one place for them. Which it's kind of weird that we haven't had that before.

Jay Wright: Yeah, that logged in experience seems so obvious like to have the logged in like self service CRM right there. It just seems Weird. Like someone buys something, then we've got to email them to leave a review. But when they're on the site, we're not just saying like, hey, you bought this. Do you want to leave a review when they're literally right there on the site again. So same with having to email to find out where your order is. It's just when you see how elegantly the UX has come together for that logged in experience for the support center that's coming out the customer hub just seems like, why doesn't that already exist? So I'm really excited about that logged

Nathan Bush: in experience and like my mind races when we talk about that stuff because obviously it's manage your orders, manage your returns, all that stuff. But when you start talking about being able to put wardrobes into people's accounts once they log in and being able to say, hey, this is waiting for you like you would in a real world experience, that's pretty cool. Especially if you can start incorporating. And I might be releasing product features that don't exist yet, but personalized pricing for that logged in experience where it's only available to you because you're this type of customer and we think that it's worthwhile giving you this price on this product and give you a different experience to everyone else. How are you seeing people differentiate their customer experience or how do you expect people to differentiate their customer experience?

Suzy Nicoletti: I think you're right. There's the basics of being able to understand the full journey. We do have degrees of personalized experiences coming, which is great, and then dynamic promotions coming, which is fantastic. And I hope for that as well. I think when our like and you'd be the expert, Jane, but when customers love a brand and they really love a brand, it really just is about continuing to talk to them in the way that they want to be spoken to. And I think what I love about Klaviyo AI segments, which is our big focus of last year, it's really segmenting that audience and figuring out who are the loyalists. Right. I used to, in a previous life, sell loyalty and loyalty. You've got points, you've got your CFO involved. There's like 20 people involved in a loyalty program. Sometimes it can just be as simple as understanding how you're segmenting your own audience and how you're speaking to them. So I think there's going to be a fun opportunity to understand the segments first of all and now overlay a new element of the segment which is who are the people that might be a loyalist but have problems with the service. What are those problems? How do we solve them better? How do we evolve? So I think there's going to be that issue or that opportunity to think about where to solve for who and why, which will become a single lens. And then I think there's also an opportunity of better understanding cross sell at the right moment. So I think there's a lot there to unpack and discover. I think so far early reports just show. Wow, that volume of support ticket has gone down dramatically. That's our first indication, which hopefully we'll release next week of like early, early results. But ideally we want customers to come on here and play and think about the segmentation and how ServiceNow comes in. But I have to go back to something very important. You did Google in 2006, is that right? You tried to do Google Ads in 2006.

[Voiceover]: Oh, it's just more. 2008 we launched online.

Suzy Nicoletti: Oh, okay.

[Voiceover]: It was more that Google just couldn't work out how to even index our site or, you know, because it was. Yeah, we had to because we're for

Nathan Bush: the customer, not for the bots.

[Voiceover]: Yeah, silly.

Suzy Nicoletti: Well, I came. Well, I came out here from. I'm from Silicon Valley. I moved out here in 2008 to help launch the Australian team. And I worked in retail. So I was gonna say I am so impressed because I remember Google was, you know, this runaway machine 2005-2008 in Silicon Valley. And then I came out here and I couldn't sell Google against the Yellow Pages to mess with product was so far like behind. And I remember live demos going very wrong right when you like search the words and it just wasn't showing. So the retail to see where we started, where you started and the fact that you were out there making that work.

[Voiceover]: We've been talking with stacks since then.

Suzy Nicoletti: But that's amazing that you made Google work when in 2008 there was not much happening. And now obviously it's an incredible business and doing really well for retail. But I just want to empathize with what it must have been like on the customer side.

[Voiceover]: A lot of evolutions. I've seen a lot of new shiny tech along the way.

Nathan Bush: What about you, Jay?

Nathan Bush: Any big customer experience changes that you kind of dream about as a result of bringing all this together?

Jay Wright: I think a lot of people think of adding stuff and I think really often good customer experience comes down to less, like, less friction. Like people don't need more emails, they don't need more text. They probably just want what they want when they need it with as little friction as possible. So for me, I think that's a big thing. It's just like if people can self service, if they can get their query answered very quickly by AI without having to wait to six hours, if they, you know, can receive the information that they need faster, that's gonna be huge. And I think the other part of this that I think is really exciting is then being able to move to that higher order touch point and get people, you know, get brands potentially having a level of service that was not possible before because they were so bogged down with so half their time going to kind of mundane tickets. So I think that's really less of the stuff that doesn't matter, more of the stuff that does.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, it was funny even when you were talking and I think that's such a good point around how do we do less that's more impactful by bringing service and marketing together. Even my brain was starting to go, imagine if you could start having new segments based on customers that are a pain in the ass. And I'm allowed to say that because I'm not a retailer, but there could be like commercially it would make sense, right? If you've got high maintenance customers, do you really want to be servicing them as well as you do your other customers or are they really important to you because they've got a high lifetime value? But I'm starting to think from bringing that data in from a service level perspective and how much it's costing you to service them, totally, you want to make sure that they're worthwhile servicing to that level.

Jay Wright: Or everyone's had like an angry email from a customer and then they've just gotten an email saying, buy a new release. And they write back to that saying, like, I just told you I wasn't happy with the first one, you know, so it seems so logical that you could just suppress people have negative sentiment in their support tickets and there's just these like really obvious kind of levels of integration that kind of don't exist right now and just create like a bit of a muddled experience. So yeah, I think there's a lot of options.

Nathan Bush: So many. I know we said we had a lot of questions at the start of this and I think we still got questions. Does anyone have a pressing question for Susie before we. And you're giving me the evil eye.

Suzy Nicoletti: I'm not, I'm not. I want to know what you would call the segment of angry customers. What would we call that?

Nathan Bush: I'm pretty basic.

Jay Wright: So I just call it negative sentiment.

Suzy Nicoletti: Negative.

Nathan Bush: You'd have a beautiful name for the bird, Jane, wouldn't you? You'd turn it around and you'd have

[Voiceover]: some sort of complicated bird that we could.

Nathan Bush: Complicated bird name chickens clipped wingbirds.

Jay Wright: Yeah, I've got this rule. I accidentally sent an email for Camilla and we named it like it was like an internal name, but they accidentally used it as the subject line. But it was something like. Not derogatory, but it was just a name you wouldn't want to use externally for like a luxury fashion brand. It was like. It wasn't sale shoppers, but it was like cheap customers or something. And that's what we named. This is way back, you know, so mailchimp before we were really on Klaviyo in 2012. And ever since then, all of my naming conventions, internal and external, will be okay if they're seen by someone externally. Because I was just so burnt by that. So I wouldn't call it anything bad. That's so good.

Suzy Nicoletti: Actually.

[Voiceover]: It's not in our. Everyone is always right.

Jay Wright: Be generous, make sure your internal naming is okay for external eyes. That was the lesson there.

Nathan Bush: That's a great lesson. Did you have any bad feedback?

Jay Wright: Yeah, yeah. That wasn't the worst email I've ever sent though.

Nathan Bush: What's the worst one?

Jay Wright: We were doing email for the upside and we sent. They were doing a deeper discount on Cyber Monday and we accidentally sent the Cyber Monday email on Black Friday. So no one shot Black Friday because they knew we were going to go deeper on Cyber Monday. That was really bad. That was really bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we recovered it. So we sent out. We just changed the discount, got it back out, they recovered. But sorry, Jody, that was.

Nathan Bush: What doesn't kill you.

Jay Wright: Yeah. This is 12 years ago, so I've learned a lot.

[Voiceover]: Sometimes those campaigns, I remember we did the one where we accidentally sent instead of Dear and using their name, Pen, who's our head of marketing.

Jay Wright: Dear Pen.

[Voiceover]: Dear Penn went out to absolutely everyone. And then so then we had to do the Whoops email.

Jay Wright: But the recovery email sometimes the recovery was so fabulous.

[Voiceover]: It was so fun. Cause she just had to say, okay, so I'm Pen. Yeah, sorry everyone. And then a lot of Pens wrote back and said, oh, well, you know, well, we just thought you were talking to us. And then everyone was just. It was just a great conversation. And because it was like also a text based email, the one that went out next, it was just. It was really engaging.

Nathan Bush: Only you could turn that into something where Your customers end up loving you more.

[Voiceover]: Loving Pen. And you couldn't not love Pen. She's great.

Nathan Bush: All right, last chance. While we've got Susie in the room, any last questions?

Suzy Nicoletti: No.

Jay Wright: I'm excited. Like, I think the fact that AB comes out here, like, we're a pretty small market, you know, I can't remember the last time Sergio or Zuck came out and met with the partners. So I think the fact that AB is coming out and they're listening to us. And last time he was out here on the walk to lunch, I got in his ear about a few things and he actioned them. Right. Like, he sent him a little memo. And so, no, I'm pretty excited. Like, I think it's directionally very exciting. I'm just happy that. That Klaviyo treats Australia with such, like, high priority in the context of us being a pretty small nation, so. But I feel like we hit heavy with E commerce compared to the world you do.

Suzy Nicoletti: We know all the visitors love coming out here. So again, CCO had the chance. I think they were ringing the bell at the New York Stock Exchange yesterday to launch this thing. And she's like, nope, come in Australia. Which it's true story. I asked, I saw that. I'm like, did you not want to go to the New York Stock Exchange? She's like, no, I want to be here. Like, she's heard great things. And Andrew was here. He was only here six months ago and he wanted to come back. So we have our president here in a month as well. So we've got a lot of people coming through. This is actually a genuinely critically important market for the company. And everyone acknowledges, you know, as we talked about today, like, the innovation that comes from this market and they really do lean into to what we need and what the customers need, which is fun. And then we also know we have to be, you know, different. We have to make sure that everything is fit for purpose as we expand here and we expand into Asia and beyond. So, yeah, we've got to get you back.

Jay Wright: Yeah, yeah.

Nathan Bush: Get in the year again.

Jay Wright: I'm taking suggestions.

Nathan Bush: Let me know when you get in socks here.

[Voiceover]: That will be interesting.

Jay Wright: That might be trickier.

Nathan Bush: This is phenomenal to have all of you around the table with us to do this in person and with you all on today of all days. So thank you so much for joining us. Before we wrap up, I want to hear just a little bit about your next 12 months and what's coming up for all of you. Okay, so firstly, Jane, what's happening at Bird's Nest over the next 12 months?

[Voiceover]: Well, Nathan, I've been on all sorts of tangents. I've launched accommodation businesses and you can now come and stay at Nest days and visit our head office. But no, I'm gonna just stick with ACOM this year. And I think, you know, as I said, our theme song is simplification. So, you know, rather boringly, but for your audience. You know, for a business that's been around for this long, we've got a lot of legacy tech and, and simplification and finding the right partners this year is actually something that we're really focused on. If anyone wants to talk to me.

Nathan Bush: So you say simplification and then you say if anyone wants to talk to me, you're going to get bombarded.

[Voiceover]: It could get interesting. No, I'm all ears at the moment. Yeah, I am very exciting.

Nathan Bush: Jay, what about you in the E commerce equation?

Jay Wright: What's happening over the next 12 months? I've just come from Brisbane so we just did a 400 or 500 person member event there on Performance Creative. We're doing the Sydney version next week. Jane will be there, which is very exciting. And so, yeah, just really focused on like trying to give our community and our founders their strategic edge in 2025. And there's been some big tectonic shifts. There's so much tech, so much change right now that really my focus is really making sure that our member base have a strategic edge over the rest of the market. And yeah, you know, we're looking at a whole rewrite of how to run ads, a lot of AI tooling and that sort of stuff. So it's business as usual. How do I help help the brands win and how do we help them grow and scale further and faster than they imagined was possible? And we're doing a lot more boardroom stuff. So we have boardroom accelerate. So Jane's obviously part of our boardroom, which is sort of for larger brands, really expanding that program with some new facilitators and mentors and we're getting some awesome community happening from kind of the pointy end of the pyramid in Australian E commerce. So, yeah, it's great.

Nathan Bush: Very cool. Suzy, what do you do now? Just go on holiday? Put your feet up?

[Voiceover]: Can you imagine?

Suzy Nicoletti: Can you imagine? No, I am. I'm off. As you know, I told you yesterday, my husband's coming with the minivan, the three kids, slow roll. I gotta dive in at 1:00'.

Nathan Bush: Clock.

Suzy Nicoletti: We're off to Huskisson for The triathlons, which will be fun today. So that's it.

Nathan Bush: It's a different change of pace.

Suzy Nicoletti: That's the fun. But no, I think I just building on what Jay said and building. You were at my kickoff, so you're a witness to this. So our number one priority is helping the brands here win. Right. Again, we're evaluated on Kav Klaviyo attributed value. That's the North Star. So everything we're doing has to be driving revenue for our customers. And I think the things we're thinking about for that are, you know, finding the right way to roll this into Australia. So B2C CRM, making sure we're listening to our customers, we're giving you that direct line into our team. So we're building in a way that's meaningful is the first thing for us. And then we spoke a little bit as well, Jay and myself and a few folks at the Opera House today. The second thing I think we want to do a bit better is community and making sure that we have a lot of great products, we have a lot of great customers. We want to make sure that we're lining up our communities with the right level of information and really rallying around the communities so that it's the most relevant for them. They can take action at scale. So I think that's a big piece for us. And then the third one is Singapore. So we're actually hiring in Singapore now. We have some jobs open. We'll be launching our hub a little bit later this year, so it'll be fun to spread our wings into Asia.

Nathan Bush: Awesome.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, it's a little bit on. I'm exhausted. I'm getting on a plane. I'm out.

Nathan Bush: And if people want to learn more

Nathan Bush: about what we've announced today, what is the best way to do that?

Nathan Bush: My goodness, that was a massive convo. And I was really glad that when I went back to fact check, I found that my listening skills actually weren't too bad. Step one, $50 million revenue for the first half of the year was correct. 64 times. ROI on Klaviyo should have actually been 65 times. And the returning order rate was actually 69%, not 64%, but I take that as a win. I don't think that's too bad. Not too far off the mark. Now. Klaviyo's move to a B2C CRM is a big shift, and it opens up some really exciting opportunities and a lot of questions for retailers. Hopefully, we've been able to answer some of those for you today. But understandably there is still a lot to come as it rolls out. Now there was a lot to unpack in that conversation when you have three amazing guests like that. But here are my top three takeaways from the chat Number one We need to reduce friction with Self Service and AI Powered Support One of the things that really hit me, and it was a really simple thing at the Klaviyo presentation was saying you've actually got three ways to serve your customer. It can be self service, can be AI powered, or it can be human powered. You need to understand what you're using, what percentage of each you're using and where it should actually be. Suzy said that 90% of customers prefer self service when they're given the option, yet many retailers still rely heavily on manual customer service interactions. I loved when Jay said that most support tickets are simple. They they're repetitive queries like where's my order? Have you received my return? When will I get my refund? Implementing self service tools like order tracking, returns, processes and AI driven chat is a bit of a no brainer for these queries and frees up your CX team to focus on high value interactions like product recommendations and styling advice that turns customer service into a sales channel. By looking for AI powered service solutions that integrate with your market, marketing and data platforms, you can reduce unnecessary tickets and improve the customer experience considerably. Number two make first party data actionable, not just collected. Many retailers collect customer data, email, purchase history, browsing behavior but don't know what they're sitting on and are struggling to turn it into insights. I loved when Jane talked about their use of implied data, using some of their quizzes to understand what a customer is interested in, what styles she loves, even down to what kind of customer they might be, whether they're a teacher or a farmer. That was really smart using those kind of engaging experiences to collect more first party data. Again, Suzy's example of retailers like Meshke using customer data to make logistics decisions like where to open warehouses and pop ups is a great example of of how first party data isn't only to be used by the marketing teams. When the right data is collected and it is accessible, it's actually an asset for making big business decisions, not just marketing. And number three, simplify your tech stack to drive better results. We heard there from Jay that most retailers run over 18 tools in their tech stack which will lead to data silos and inefficiencies. Like to I think in the last couple of years we've seen this more and more as platforms really start merging into other platforms territories example today. But by consolidating marketing service and analytics into one unified platform, which Klaviyo is doing here, you can eliminate wasted time and help teams make better decisions faster. Taking a regular audit of your tech stack and asking are these tools working together to improve CX and revenue or are they just adding complexity? Unfortunately, it's something that you have to do more and more often as these tech stacks change and develop really, really quickly. That's it for today. If you want to know more about Klaviyo's CRM for B2C that was just announced last week, head on over to klaviyo.com au that's klaviyo.com au and you can watch a demo right there. Thanks again for tuning in. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider consider sharing it with a friend or a colleague, maybe someone who is struggling to bring all their data together. And if you have time, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps us get the word out to more people who we can help in e commerce. Thanks for joining us today on Add to Cart to listen to all our e commerce conversations now in the hundreds. You can head on over to Add to Cart. There you can also join up to our free private Slack community to share e commerce ideas, tips and questions with other listeners. You can also subscribe to the Add to Cart weekly newsletter and browse some of the video highlights from our chats. There is a lot there that's add to cart.com and if I can ask you one thing before you go. If you enjoyed today's episode, make make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague who could benefit. Or leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep those customers Adding to Cart.