Tahlia Mandie: Might have one motto in business and that's a no dickhead policy. You can spot a dickhead from a mile away. I think it's important for brands to know that you don't have to be everywhere and you've got to know where your customer is and then focus on that. Our mission is very much celebrating Australian bush foods and indigenous culture. And everything we do is all about Australian bush foods and our own brand. Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all
[Voiceover]: you need to know in the fast
Tahlia Mandie: moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.
[Voiceover]: What if the secret to scaling your e commerce business was hiding in the Australian bush? From Kakadu plum to pepper berry, today's guest proves that native ingredients aren't just for five star kitchens. They're ripe for e commerce success. Welcome to another episode of Add to Cart. My name is Bushi joining you from the land of the terrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. And today I am joined by Thalia Mandy, founder of Kakadu Plum company. Starting out with a single product, Kakadu Plum Powder, and a big idea, Thalia has grown the business into an online store with over 1200 SKUs. She's working closely with first nations communities and small Australian producers to get their products into the hands of as many, many Australian households as possible. Thalia has built a brand that champions local ingredients while navigating the complexities of e commerce growth. And now with her first cookbook, the Australian Ingredients Kitchen, which is launching this April and to be found in bookstores like Big W and Amazon, she's ready to bring bush foods to even more kitchens. In this episode, you'll discover how Thalia juggles remote suppliers and inventory challenges, why email drives 45% of her repeat customers, and how she stays focused on her mission without losing sight of the bottom line. Plus, you'll hear her take on channel prioritization, the realities of scaling sustainably and I love this bit. Why having a no dickhead policy might just save your business. Before we get into today's chat, if you are keen to start with the latest in e commerce, I would love for you to check out my weekly newsletter. Every Tuesday I share one e commerce insight that I am feeling like I need to wax on about. Plus the 5 must read article, articles, case studies or research pieces to keep you informed and inspired in e commerce. You can sign up for free at add to cart.comau forward/subscribe. All right, let's get into it. A big thanks as always to Our partners, Shopify and Klaviyo for making this episode and our podcast possible. Now, let's talk bush tucker with Thalia Mandy, founder of Kakadu Plum Company. Talia, welcome to ADD to cart.
Tahlia Mandie: Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor. We're finally here.
Nathan Bush: Finally here. It was actually my fault. We've put this off. We were talking about it late last year and then you've got some exciting news which we're going to get to, which is the reason we put it off till today. But then we went to record last week and then I was like, oh, it's hardly. I'm so sorry.
Tahlia Mandie: No, that's all right. So I think this is the third time lucky, actually, because we had it originally scheduled last year and then I put it back and then we had it and then you put it back. So third time lucky.
Nathan Bush: Third time lucky. All right, let's not leave our listeners in suspense. Then we are going to dive into the Kakadu Plum Company and everything that you're doing there. But we've got to start with the exciting news. Let's get that out of the way. We're not going to get. What have you been working on?
Tahlia Mandie: This has been something in the making for some time, but I can officially now say that I have my first cookbook coming out in April of this year, which I'm co authoring with Elder Bruno Daniel. So, yes, it's very exciting. It's now all on the webs for pre order or from everywhere. So, yes, now I can officially talk about it. I couldn't last year.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. So you've written the book with Elder Bruno Dan, which is really cool. All right. To have both of you come together. How did you meet Bruno?
Tahlia Mandie: I explored who is harvesting garbinge kakadu plum. I instinctively knew about traditional bush foods. I'm not indigenous, but I knew instinctively about that. And yeah, we just kind of met. It was just serendipitous and I just connected and I then went out on country and met him and it's just been one of those relationships. And I think the book is also about also how we can all work together, non indigenous and indigenous, collaboratively and share this love of what is here and what is growing on our land.
Nathan Bush: We're going to talk about all the different hats that you've worn throughout your career so far. Cookbook author, now there. What was the reason for going down the cookbook path?
Tahlia Mandie: What was the reason? Okay, so was originally stemmed from my community, I guess an online Community asking for really simple, easy ways to use bush foods and the spices that we've been selling for years. And we've always worked collaboratively and had other cookbooks, I guess with superfoods and Australian ingredients. But they were very chefy like really chefy and superfoods and the bush ingredients have always, I guess originally kind of been very cheffy like and you can only use and see them in the five star restaurants. And that's not what we're about for us. It's all day everyday, simple ingredients. And that's how it started. And then the idea was to bring in Bruno who Elder Bruno Dan, who's normal man from Twin Lakes, which is in Broome area, who I've been working with very early days, even before Kakadu Plum coast started. And that's how it happened. And it was basically it's his life and his home cooking and camp cooking and my family cooking and simple recipes and I'm a mum and a family and all about simple. And that's how it happened. And it's a very beautiful collaborative book with other communities and other. I think there's one or two recipes, only one or two. But otherwise it's a very beautiful, collaborative, easy, simple book that hopefully everyone can be using in their kitchen.
Nathan Bush: I've got to ask you, do you have a favorite recipe out of the book?
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, look, I don't know. There is one recipe actually, that's not my recipe, it's actually Bruno's recipe and it's the potato salad which is actually on the front cover and it is absolutely to die for. That's probably one of my favorite recipes. But in there as well, it's just got my easy roast chicken with native ingredients as well. So everybody can pull a bit of this and a bit of that and use their own actually recipes and how they're cooking at home. And add this and add a bit of this spice and wattle seed or lemon myrtle.
Nathan Bush: So you've mentioned a couple there. Wattle seed, lemon myrtle. What are some other like native ingredients? When we're talking that category for people who may not be familiar with it?
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: What are we talking?
Tahlia Mandie: I guess. Well, the hero is Kakadu plum garbage. So that's wild harvested. That's very, very high in vitamin C. It's an amazing, amazing product. So that would probably be that, I guess that hero. But that's more in the health space. But then we've got, you know, the most common ones are probably lemon myrtle. You've got wattle seed. Annie's myrtle. But then we've got Davidson plum. We've got desert lime, saltbush, pepper berry. I love pepper berry. I think every kitchen needs to have pepper berry. So. Yeah, and they're just some of them. We have so many different native ingredients that I'm still learning about every day as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I could imagine that there is so much to learn. Can you get, and this is my own ignorance, can you get most of the native ingredients at supermarkets?
Tahlia Mandie: No.
Nathan Bush: Okay, so where do you have to go, apart from Kakaroo Pumco?
Tahlia Mandie: Well, I guess native ingredients, it's the sort of thing. It's very, you know, there's only a few that are, I guess, sort of more commercially grown, Lemon myrtle being one of them. But most of them are all wild and local farmers. And it's seasonal. Some years you'll have a good harvest, some years you won't. So it's still very rugged and wild, which is the beautiful thing about it as well. So, no, you can't find them in supermarkets of what we obviously supply online at our website. But we. And we retail. So some Green Graces, health food stores. Yeah. Butchers, some of them have as well. So. Yeah, but we also have products with native ingredients too. So we're trying to sort of not just keep, I guess, the rawness of it. We're trying to put them into everyday items and jams and things.
Nathan Bush: It must be a fine balance between trying to spread the word about them
[Voiceover]: and trying to get more people using
Nathan Bush: them, but not allowing them to become over commercialized.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, completely, yeah. That's actually been one of my concerns, actually, about Kakadu Plum. When I started this nine years ago, no one had heard about it and it was, yeah, it was like, what's this Kakadu plum? And now it's become really much more well known. And you see it in a lot of products. Dog food, even
Nathan Bush: dogs are eating better than me.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah. Hair cream, hair, a lot of skin. So it is becoming. It is. What's not becoming? It is actually now a lot more well known. But the pureness of. I mean, we only have it in the powder in its raw form, and we've always been very protective of that. And I guess working collaboratively with Aboriginal people who harvest it, it's a fine line. But you want to see it more commercialized, I guess. But at the same time, we don't want to because it is so wild and beautiful and special and its beauty is in the wild harvest. If it becomes more commercialized, I guess you. You'll lose that. It won't actually be the same, I believe, anyway.
Nathan Bush: How did you come across Kakadu Plum for the first time? How did you discover it?
Tahlia Mandie: So it was Melbourne based about nine years ago. Everybody was going gangbusters for matcha and Sie. All in the cafes, all these acai bars opened up, even matcha cafes opened up and it was everywhere. And it just got me thinking that we're buying and using these international superfoods for health benefits. There actually must be something grown here in Australia. And I just instinctively knew about our bush foods and indigenous culture and put two and two together and discovered the Kakadu plum, which is known traditionally as binge and very high in vitamin C. And hold on, how come we're not using this? Why are we not celebrating this? Why don't people know about it? And yeah, met Bruno and his family and went out on country with him and learned more about it and that was it. We started with one product and that was the one product which was Kakadu plum powder. And that was the beginning.
Nathan Bush: And you mentioned there, Bruno and the indigenous community have known about it, have eaten it, have grown it for hundreds, thousands of years.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: What was their response when you started talking to them? To go, actually, I think there's a market in Australia around.
Tahlia Mandie: Well, yeah, at the time I think Bruno was already harvesting for somebody else in small numbers. And yeah, we just started, I think at the first time we started. I don't know how much we started with. I think we, we worked with them and they did one ton maybe of Kakadu plum for us. So. And that's the raw, but obviously you get it raw, it gets packed, frozen and then it gets sent to us and then it gets dried and then milled. So that's what it is. And then obviously every year on end it's just been increasing like that. So but it's there and they do what they love. So for them they're out on country, it's a beautiful time of year because all the families go out and harvest and pick it and. And then they get paid like a per kilo price that they set and then they make money for it for that way doing what they love, which is being on country. So yeah, they're thrilled and obviously the more we need and the more demand then the more they have to harvest and they get paid more per kilo. And yeah.
Nathan Bush: And so how did you decide that this was a standalone business as Kakadu Plumco and that you were going to sell online to start with, I just
Tahlia Mandie: knew the online space had to happen but I was very much at that time also trying to push it into retail stores. But the online space, I mean it was still, I mean you're talking nine years ago, it was still quite. Shopify wasn't as big.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tahlia Mandie: Then I think we started on Squarespace. They were great actually for a first time website. Then we were on that for a couple of years and then yeah, we moved obviously to Shopify but we just knew that that's the space that people go. And I think it's a two prong approach. You can't just have one avenue, you've got to have another avenue as well. So yeah, we started with that one product and then we brought out more bush foods. I think we then we brought out lemon myrtle and wattle seed and it's just kind of grown from there.
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Nathan Bush: How many products you up to?
Tahlia Mandie: So I guess sort of I should clarify. So Kakadu Plumco, we have our brand. So we have now about 30 products in our brand which we obviously sell online but we also retail Australia wide. But the website Kakadu Plumco I think we have over 1200 products now. So which we retail. So we obviously purchase wholesale and we work collaboratively with other first nation businesses, communities, Australian businesses. So that's been amazing. And we do a lot of gifting on there as well. So and that's what I mean. The, the website has its own home but then within that we have our brand that we also then wholesale out and retail. So we're not just relying on one revenue in that space. But the E commerce is very dominant. We do focus a lot on the E commerce.
Nathan Bush: Well, it's not even reliant on one product category now. Is it so much broader than that? How do you describe your mission?
Tahlia Mandie: Our mission is very much celebrating Australian bush foods and indigenous culture and everything we do is all about Australian bush foods in our own brand. And then within the website as well. We work as much as we can with First Nation businesses and communities even and we try and source and find these products that are very unique and what if we range them then that helps them and it's been very humbling to see certain brands and communities I guess sort of expand out for themselves. You know we were one of their first retailers and now they're just going amazing. So. Yeah. And also that education I guess as well about educating people about these most amazing ingredients we have here and the products we have here and we don't need to shop abroad and it's all grown here and it's all about supporting local as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I remember we were chatting with Grace from Buy from the Bush late last year and she talked about the community that she's helped support just by giving exposure and showing people that there are different options out there when it comes to you working with your suppliers and partners about bringing them into Kakadu Plum company and listing them and showcasing them. Where do you normally find that you need to give the most help or guidance to them?
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, probably supply. Yeah, yeah. So that we have this one and they're also in the book. They're an amazing aboriginal business called Bakarindi and they have these amazing sources I guess and jams and preserves and they can't keep up with us so we have to try and find because we have such an amazing beautiful audience that want all these products. So it is hard to find sometimes different suppliers that are able to give us the supply we need. So that's probably. Yeah but then you know we just obviously have to stagger it out and I guess, you know, our customers know that things sell quickly so you know they get it quickly when it's back in stock.
Nathan Bush: Part of your customer base would understand that most products here aren't produced on mass.
Tahlia Mandie: Well yeah and especially we like to work as many small micro businesses as possible and we source these businesses that you won't find generally in obviously not in the majors but even in your local green graces. They're, you know, they're quite micro and small which is beautiful because they're all homemade and they're all these amazing products and locally sourced and small batch and taste amazing as well. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: What's the hardest part of that E Commerce model?
Tahlia Mandie: I actually find the biggest challenge in the E Commerce model is inventory. Yeah, it's a challenging one because we obviously have our products that we don't really. Some we do sell out of but, but inventory and maintaining that inventory we find a bit of a challenge.
Nathan Bush: And are you holding all the stock.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, we do.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Okay.
Tahlia Mandie: No, we hold all this stock as well. So. Yeah. And then if that's the other thing with inventory, if things aren't stored away properly and we're getting in so many different products from different suppliers, then all of a sudden we have this box of something and it's like, oh, you know.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tahlia Mandie: So, yeah, inventory is probably one of the. My biggest headaches, especially with so many products and suppliers.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I could imagine some of your suppliers must be fairly remote.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Shipping costs, expensive time frames. Unpredictable.
Tahlia Mandie: Yes. So we have Nagulu Jandu who produce our handmade soaps and they're up in Broome. So they come from Broome. And then we have Bush Medina who are up in Groot island, which is like far North Queensland. So. Yeah, you can imagine then at Christmas time as well, like everything's further delayed. So a lot of Queensland suppliers. So. Yeah. And Australia Post sometimes gets slower and slower so, you know, but it's. Yeah, we have to try and work with that obviously.
Nathan Bush: And where's your warehouse out of?
Tahlia Mandie: We're in Melbourne, so we're in Mordiallock down in Melbourne and there as well. We actually only recently opened it up to kind of like a walk in space as well. So we have all these amazing people that come in and like to do a lot of click and collect or just come and look at our products as well. So that's actually been a great add on as well to just open that up to the public. Yeah. They come in for a chat and they hear this. It's so lovely. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Do you have a high proportion of returning customers? Because there's obviously a huge part of this which is discovery. But then as you mentioned with the cookbook, there's the how do we use native ingredients just in our day to day life as well. So there must be some interesting customer Personas there.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, our return between the two customer is. I mean, I don't know what the average is on Shopify, but we sit at about 40 or 45% return and people just love like if you've tried kakadu plum for example, and you know it works, you'll keep coming back. And it's the same with our bush tea. We have our best selling gelling and bush tea as well, which helps people sleep and it's amazing. And once you try it and people know it works, they'll come back. So we also have another, I guess, sort of another side of our business. We do a lot of corporate gifting as well, so when people know and discover the range of products that we have and the hampers that we offer, that is not your typical sort of wine and cheese. We'd like to try and do something quite unique. We do have a very high return base even in our sort of more corporate space as well. So yeah, it's great. We're very lucky.
Nathan Bush: Did you go after the corporate space specifically or did you kind of find that it was a segment that emerged?
Tahlia Mandie: That's interesting. Yes. So it was actually a Covid success, I would say, which again, very lucky that we were quite well established already during COVID So we already had our website, our E commerce. We were quite obviously sophisticated already in what we were doing. And then it was at that time people were doing a lot of corporate gifting in sending hampers just for goodwill and nature and to keep people engaged and so. And then people do online events. You remember that online event stage? Yes, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Being told to turn up to a random quiz afternoon.
Tahlia Mandie: Cool.
Nathan Bush: This is what we need, more zoom calls. When we've been on zoom calls all that great.
Tahlia Mandie: So it naturally just happens. And it was then it was like, oh, wow. This is actually a whole new area that we haven't really explored. It's definitely an area and let's go further into that and it's turned out very well. It's been great. So again, our E commerce space has different arms to it and different customers. I guess we don't just cater for one customer, which has been obviously very beneficial and now especially in where we are in this economic space as well. Yeah, even more beneficial, which is great.
Nathan Bush: What have you learned about a great gifting experience? What makes a great gifting experience?
Tahlia Mandie: Fine detail. Connection to detail. I'm very like, things need to be lined up nicely and paper like, you know, the tissue folded nicely and it's open and they lift it up and it's like this wow experience. So yeah, when I've had to obviously bring in more people to be packing hampers, it's how well do you pack a hamper and how well can you put corner to corner? So I'm very anal like that. But you know what, people open it and it's like how beautiful this is.
Nathan Bush: Do you get a lot of social sharing from people discovering the product, using the product? Because there's so many angles, isn't it? There's that unboxing experience. So this is beautiful, this is nice. And there's people discovering to go, oh wow, I didn't even know this existed. And then there'd be people who like, well, I've used it now in cooking, but I've also used it. I've used it in all these sorts of different ways.
Tahlia Mandie: So the answer is, to be honest with you, no. And it's quite interesting if you want to go into the social thing in the sense that there are certain platforms that just don't work for us and we kind of, I guess, do it because we have to, but it's doesn't really turn into dollars, I guess, because we've got a very sophisticated customer. We've got. Our customer is an older customer. So our parents age basically, if not older. And we have some customers that ring us up that are in their 80s and their 90s and they can't work out the E commerce and we have to do it online. So we don't have that customer that is into the social share. There is probably a few of them, but we're definitely. We don't rely on that and we cannot rely on that. Facebook has always been our best place because that also generates, I think, that older generation, you know, when they go on to see what their kids are up to and things like that.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tahlia Mandie: But in terms of Instagram, this TikTok space is just. That's doing my head in. Our customers.
Nathan Bush: Are you on it?
Tahlia Mandie: I am. It's a lot of time wasting. Boy, oh boy. And again, it doesn't, it just doesn't do anything for us. Like we're there, but it doesn't turn like we actually had somebody that came in and we paid somebody to come in for a couple of months to try and do all these TikTok videos and we give the codes and everything. It does nothing. Like, that's not our customer. It's quite interesting, actually. Yeah. That's a challenge, this TikTok, and I don't have time for this TikTok, but it's the way. But I, I think it's important for brands to know that you don't have to be everywhere and you've got to know where your customer is and then focus on that. And then if you're talking about ad spend and marketing spend and where you invest your dollars, know who you're going to target to because it's just going to churn through your dollars and your marketing spend and you can't be there for everybody. You can't have everything, you can't have every audience. So know where your audience is, focus on that and focus on what they want to see and what they want to read and how to get into them, I guess. And TikTok is not our audience.
Nathan Bush: It is funny, isn't it? When you come from our world, you're like, I think about the content that you would have on TikTok, from sourcing products to all the personalities that would be behind the price you sell. Yeah, it's such a ripe area. But you're absolutely right. It's like if your audience don't value that or aren't there at all, then it doesn't matter how good the content is, it won't get eyeballs.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, look, I'm not very into this TikTok savvy making videos anyway. And I think you've got to have a certain personality to do that for you as well. But. And that's okay, you know, again, it's. There's going to be something else that happens. I mean, TikTok is going to possibly go down in a couple of months. Who knows, you know, and then what? Who knows? Like, you can't just be relying on this one source. And I think there's been a lot and it's great. TikTok is fantastic and it works for a lot of businesses and I've seen some of these videos go viral and everything. But again, it's like, who is your audience? Where is your audience? And nourish them in the way that they want to be nourished. Yeah, for us that's Facebook and also email and that converts and we see it. So. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And what kind of messages are you putting across Facebook and email? Are they. If you talk in older audience as your primary audience and you mentioned there, they may not be ecom, natives or natural. How do you go out with your messaging and your call to actions for that audience? Is it any different to what other brands might do?
Tahlia Mandie: Maybe. Look, I don't really look, I can see what other brands do, but I guess again we sort of just run our race and know what works for us. So one email that I think that does very well for us. And again, I don't know when it started or how it started again. It might have been during COVID Every Sunday we send out an email which has been a piece of information. So whether it's a cultural piece, it shares about Australia, gardening is something quite educational and it's always been Sunday morning and that is our best day. So everybody knows on Sunday there's some sort of information and I don't sell. It's not a selling day, it's just sharing about something. So I sort of. I don't know we do it. We have one of our best selling books is about medicinal plants and gardening for example. So we share about different medicinal plants or different herbs in the plant spacing or how to grow a native garden or things like that. It's quite. It's educational and people love it and it's been just a consistent email and I think about what something and whether it's trending or it's not trending. You know sometimes it obviously around NAIDOC week it might be something specific on a cultural sharing around that. So yeah. And then our other emails we have which I always like to do a cooking email so that different recipes whether that's recipes linked to our blog and website or even other recipes and again that's what we're all about is collaboration and information sharing. It's not just click through to Kakadu Plumco. It's like you can click through to National Geographic. You can click through to Gourmet Traveler. That's great.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah, we're helping you correct.
Tahlia Mandie: And our customers know that it's not always that sell, sell, sell. Now we obviously do a lot more selling emails and product emails come Black Friday and Christmas and it ramps up but we do a lot of emails. Generally we do on average I do three a week.
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Nathan Bush: And are they from you personally?
[Voiceover]: Do your audience get to know Talia
Nathan Bush: or is it still under? Yeah, okay.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, no, they do so within our flows. Also I have a. The first email that they get when they sign up is from me. So it's like this. I think it's the common one, the welcome flow and that's from me as a thank you. And being involved and you're now part of our community and it's lovely. And some of the emails I get back are just so beautiful. People are just oh, thank you so much. I've been looking forward to trying this. I saw this artist when I went to Uluru and now I found your cushion and I'm wanting to bring all this into my home. It's just so humbling to see the gratitude that people get. And you do have to put that personal element to it because that's how we stand out too is that we do. And I think I do offer that personal element, the passion, the stories. And we're not this big corporate brand where something very unique in what we offer in that as well.
Nathan Bush: I agree with that so much because one of my bugbears is emails when it is even is from corporates and you go to reply and you know it's a mass send and you go to reply and it goes to a no reply email address.
Tahlia Mandie: I'm like, I don't like that, what's the point?
Nathan Bush: You've just spent so much time and so much effort to communicate with your customers and now your customers look at that and they go actually yeah, I'm interested in that or I've got a question for you or I've got an opinion on that and I'd love to get back to you. And then you actually go, nah, don't want to hear from you.
Tahlia Mandie: And the worst is you hit reply and then it bounces back at you because it is the no reply.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I just don't get it.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, so my reply is taliakadooplumco.com well, there you go. Now everyone has my email but, but it is and people respond that way and I don't know, it bugs me when I can't get onto a company and I've got a question, we'll get back to you in three days like, but you know, everybody is different and that's okay too.
Nathan Bush: I've got to ask you though, those emails, even though they are informative and they're done to educate and to entertain to a certain extent, do you notice that there is a sales spike on any products that you mentioned even if you haven't completely really sold?
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, so I mean look, I'll be honest with you, it's majority of that is a story or a piece but in there at the bottom of it I might link to other information, you know, or other stories to read, things like that, but only at the very bottom in text Underline, does it say bestsellers of the week? That's it. There's no image of products, there's nothing. But people come to us because they trust us and that they know that what we're selling, what we're offering is unique. And we do all our due diligence with who we work with collaboratively as well. It's authentic. And I'm not hiding anything, you know, that's the other thing too.
Nathan Bush: I think it too depends what you're looking for. If you're looking for direct attribution immediately, it might not be there. But when you've got an audience that's opening up every Sunday morning and reading or you're educating on or exposing to new parts of the business, new ideas, it's going to stick in the back of the mind and it might be six months down the track, it might be 12 months, you might not be able to directly attribute it, but it will sell at some point.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, completely. And I think that's the brilliant thing about email, is massive. And I would highly recommend to anybody, email database is number one. And that's how you communicate with your audience, you know, every day, if you want to. And the more that it's encouraging them to open it as well, because otherwise it goes in different parts of the email. So there's skill obviously in that. I've now got an amazing person in my team who manages our email and she's just incredible. So she's these email platforms, so we use Klaviyo. It's a beast of a platform. It's so sophisticated and it's amazing and. But you know, we might have X amount of thousands of people on our email, but you need to know how to segment them and how to deliver it and the time and there's just a lot of backend stuff and all the flows. So there's not one thing in particular. I think it's at the end of the day knowing when your time of sending and them going to open it is going to be the best for you. But you've got to do trial and error before that, obviously before.
Nathan Bush: But it sounds like you've put a lot of time and effort and investment with someone dedicated to running these emails.
Tahlia Mandie: Completely. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: To nurturing this channel and make sure it works for you. And like you said, it can become a beast in terms of. In a beast in a good way because you can get a huge proportion automated for you and then you put little cherries on top along the way.
Tahlia Mandie: Completely. Yeah. So we have obviously all our Automations. But then those three emails per week, I do, and we have somebody else doing other emails, but I'm the one putting the Sunday email together every week and I know which list it has to go to and who it doesn't go to. So, you know, there's definitely a lot of skill and knowledge you need in the email or any of that tech platform. It's not easy. A lot of it's not easy. And it takes time and dedication and to learn a lot of it.
Nathan Bush: But to your point earlier, if you're picking one, two, maybe three channels that you're really going to master, that's it. If you were trying to do every channel, there's no way you'd get as sophisticated in email as you are today.
Tahlia Mandie: No, of course not. And I guess it's all about your cash flow as well. Like, you can't put cash into every channel and you can't put your marketing dollars into every channel. Like, I know I'm better off to be putting more money into our Facebook ads or into our fixing something or adding a new flow into our email that's going to convert as opposed to TikTok.
Nathan Bush: They're part of you. First thing that comes to mind when you talk about we've got an older audience. I'm like, okay, older demographic. The risk there is that you've got an audience that won't be with you forever. To put it in the nicest possible way. Is there a risk from a business owner's perspective of how do you keep discovering new audiences along the way as that demographic might age out?
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, I mean, you've got family, so I guess also as well with that, there's obviously family members and so people recommending family to family and friends to friends. And I think people need to not be. That's something to be aware of, I guess, because that's just a natural recommendation. And if one person shares your product to 10 people, that's, you know, that's gold.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. I suppose gifting is also a form of recommendation, right? Gifting is recommendation.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, completely. Yeah. And then we'll often get new customers because they got a gift or they got a hamper or a new corporate customer, because that corporate customer gifted to another one of their customers. Absolutely. We're diving into a little bit in Pinterest that seems to be doing okay. But again, knowing your audience, we went into it a bit deeper and in Australia, I don't think Pinterest is as big as what it is in the us so it's massive. Overseas, people really go into that a lot more.
Nathan Bush: The numbers are phenomenal. When you start looking at some of the Pinterest reports around. Yeah. Paid views and engagements, I think they've always had trouble linking it back to commercial results for retailers, but in terms of an immersive platform, it's insane.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, absolutely. And then in anything of this, it's also. You can't just post something and think it's going to convert. You need to have good imagery, you need to have photography. We've always found that in all our ads, we can't just. And we have professional photos of each product, their lifestyle converts better. So, again, you've got to know what image. If you're doing images as opposed to videos, what's going to convert better for you? And what kind of image is it? Just a beautiful, lovely lifestyle photo? Is it a product? Is it something of trees? I don't know. But there's. You've got to know what your customer wants to see and what's going to convert as well. So we have one Facebook ad which is for our gelatin bush tea. And the gelatin bush tea is wild. Like, it's this amazing wild. And people think it looks like gum leaves, for example, because it is. It's literally just all wild harvested. And that's how we get it. And we've got this image that's purely of the leaves in this beautiful ceramic cup with the leaves in a strainer. And that's one of our best converting ads. There's no product, there's no labels, there's no product. You know, it's like, wow, look at that, how beautiful that looks. So, again, it's all about not only who you're targeting, but what you're targeting and what do they want to see and what kind of image is it? Video? Is it carousel? So you've got to.
Nathan Bush: And do you test a lot of that imagery and video organically before you put any paid advertising behind it?
Tahlia Mandie: We do, yes. So I've always been a collaborator and working with people, so. And I know where my skills and weaknesses are as well. So I've always used a Facebook person as well. So I have. I have somebody that manages our Google, Facebook Klaviyo, and I think somebody else is doing Pinterest as well, so experts in specific areas. So, yeah, he'll always test different things and for a certain time and then budgets and know what works and what doesn't work. And again, if it's video, the video is not for converting to a sale. That's more to get people to the website that then converts to an email. So it's all around about way because ultimately if we can get their email and then targeted them then on the email that's also good.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tahlia Mandie: So they might not click through to buy the product but sign up and you get 10% off. I've got the email and then I'll retarget them that way and then maybe in four or five emails time then they'll go back to that product and buy it. So they'll work together.
Nathan Bush: Obviously we've got a really strong Australian angle here. Australian produce, Australian communities. Is there thoughts plans to expand internationally because we have seen that there is a strong desire for Australian made product.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, there is. We do a little bit. We have some customers over specifically in the States that we send but it's very minimal. We're trying to do more of now all our products, our jams, preserves, olive oils with inclusions of native ingredients. So I'd love to see that go off overseas. But look, I think that's a. It's a hard area. I haven't cracked it yet. I really would like.
Nathan Bush: How do you crack it?
Tahlia Mandie: Maybe I can come to you. I don't know. I need to know from you. How do you crack into the. And which market do you go to? Because there's all these different markets as
Nathan Bush: well and to be honest it's probably the worst time to be thinking about it, isn't it? With all the tariff trades right now
Tahlia Mandie: it's like completely everyone just.
Nathan Bush: We put everything on hold and we're recording this on the 10th of February. So a bit of context if this comes out a few weeks later.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, yeah. I've also heard actually somebody told me as well even international. So if you're going over to take it overseas, you actually can't send it. You have to find a manufacturer overseas. So that's its whole other game because to send. So I heard there was a. Off topic but an international beer company that you think is a certain. From a certain country. Oh no, no, no. It's. It's made here.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think it's so easy.
Tahlia Mandie: It's like.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah. It's not like you can just open up and start selling. You got the right approach. I don't think you could do you have to pick a market or two markets potentially to start with and not try and take on the whole world straight up.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[Voiceover]: So obviously you've got a lot on
Nathan Bush: your plate but what I really enjoyed in the research that we did was that you were always saying in a couple of interviews around, have fun and do what you love. That seemed to keep coming up over and over again as your motto. Tell us about that and what that actually means for you.
Tahlia Mandie: I think you've got to love what you're doing every day and it is a balance and finding joy, joy in little things in life, in your work and who you're working with. It's all about sparks of joy. And if we don't have that, why, like, what for? So, yeah, you've got to have fun, you've got to enjoy little things, have little vices in your life as well. Mine is wine and coffee as well.
Nathan Bush: You know, depending on time of day.
Tahlia Mandie: Exactly. I don't have coffee after 12 and I sort of hit. I can't have wine before five or something like that. Yes, exactly. So it's a time.
Nathan Bush: But you'll have to meet something between 12 and 5. There's a gap there.
Tahlia Mandie: I have a really nice lunch, then I'm allowed to have wine at lunch, like. But it's got to be a nice lunch. It's not just lunch.
Nathan Bush: So how do you put that into play, though, if you, you know, business, we all love, almost love what we do, and as a business owner, it can be stressful.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: How do you ensure that you're always having fun while you're doing what you're doing?
Tahlia Mandie: Well, there's times I don't have fun. Absolutely. And there are definitely times that it's not so joyful. And especially with working with different people as well over the years. And I should also say my other motto in business, though, so that's a life motto. Might have one motto in business, and that's a no dickhead policy. You can spot a dickhead from a mile away, and if there's a touch of it, you're entering it is like, no deal's done. We're not going further. And it actually is a saving grace. I have to be honest with you, and as a woman as well, I think you just got to have something that you know who and how people to work with. And you've got to have your own radar. And I. That's my radar. And it served me well. Still serves me well.
Nathan Bush: What's a telltale sign of a. In business, what kind of immediately gets
Tahlia Mandie: you go, yeah, you're a one recent one. I had to. I had one supplier. I had worked with this supplier before, and they sent us some product that we had to return because there Were concerns about the health and safety of how it came to us. Had to speak to the person on the phone. He was hard to get onto. He wouldn't return my calls. He wouldn't return my emails. Finally, he's, I think, replaced the product, but has never returned an email to me completely. Lack of apology, lack of acknowledgment of their really big wrongdoings. I will never do business again with these people. It's like you can't. Like you've fully entered my ratio.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, there's a respect piece there, isn't there? And there's a partnership piece.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, there's respect, but there's also manners. I think a lot of people just don't have manners either and think they're better than you. I find that very hard to deal with when people think that they're better than you or they have more time than you or they're more precious in their time than you. Yeah, that's a respect. That's manners. And something that enters into my personal life, you know, and I also try and teach my. Inspire my kids about as well to a degree. So. Yeah, but it serves me well. Yes, it's true. Like, you know, and friends and people. And you don't need these people in your life. Like, you don't. You just got to find the people and that work with you and want to support you and. Yeah, I had another one recently that, you know, another partner that we were working with and just decided to not respond or something and just say, okay, bye. Just rude.
Nathan Bush: I think people, the dickhead alarm went off and they were out.
Tahlia Mandie: Dickhead alarm.
[Voiceover]: Cookbooks out.
Nathan Bush: What's next?
Tahlia Mandie: Yes.
Nathan Bush: For yourself and Kakadu Pomko.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, I don't know. Well, I think this year I'm trying to get this cookbook out there and do a bit of travel and get that into everybody's kitchen. That would be the main. But we're just. Now we're really sort of expanding our everyday products using native ingredients. So I want to. We've got a quince paste hopefully coming out soon, and then just all of that market, which I can really sort of hopefully then get into the majors. That would be the idea also that people can have a beautiful gourmet jam preserve, quint with native ingredients and yeah. Have that as an option.
Nathan Bush: Kind of like your starting point. Like get your core product in there as a starting point.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, correct. So that's the goal is to get that range into so it's easy for people to access ultimately as well. So that's ultimately hopefully the goal.
Nathan Bush: Are you going to bundle up some of that core product with the cookbook to get people?
Tahlia Mandie: I am, yes. I have to figure out what to do and how to bundle it. Yes, bundles always do. Bundles. Bundles are great. Yes. Bundles work well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. You'd have so much fun with bundles because there'd be so many different angles you could take and so many different combinations.
Tahlia Mandie: But I tell you what, it's again also because with E commerce and all this shipping, you got to know what bundle works that you can ship at a certain weight in a certain box that's going to be economical. So again, it's like, it seems good, but then it's like. And it is. But again, you've got to think about that and what box is it going to go into? What's this box weigh? Because from this weight to that weight, you can have a massive increase and shipping costs. So, yeah, bundles. But you've got to think about your bundle in terms of also logistically, what books is it going to go?
Nathan Bush: It's the sexy side of E commerce, isn't it?
Tahlia Mandie: Absolutely. But yeah, that's all right. But someone's going to do it.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. So Talia, tell us how can people learn more? So tell us more around how people can find Kakadu Plumco and then the cookbook. When will it be available? Where can people get it from?
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah, absolutely. So all our herbs, spices, products and everything else, Kakadu plumco.com and the cookbook is available now pre order, I think via I've seen it on Amazon, Big W. So that's called the Australian Ingredients Kitchen. So that's available for pre order which will also soon be available on our website as well.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. How good to have it in retailers like Big W as well as Amazon.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh, it's amazing. I'm really excited. It's. Yeah, it's a very humbling process. Very scary process though too. But yeah, no, I hope just everybody will love it as much as we do and the joy of using these ingredients as well. You'll have to give me your address. I'll send you one signed copy.
Nathan Bush: I will go out and buy my own copy. I will definitely. But I would love to sign one or buy one through Kakadu Plumco and I'll put a note in it, say Talia told me she'd sign it.
Tahlia Mandie: Okay. Okay, okay. Leave me a note. Yes.
Nathan Bush: All right, I will.
Tahlia Mandie: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Thank you so much for joining us on Add to cart. Love hearing your story. I love what you're doing with native ingredients and promoting them and all the communities and the suppliers that you're supporting to help reach all parts of Australia. So I think it's really exciting. I can't wait to see what the cookbook does.
Tahlia Mandie: Oh thank you. And thank you for having me and thank you for inviting me to share all this stuff as well.
[Voiceover]: They are some of my funnest episodes when I learn about a totally new area that I had no idea about. And yeah we talk e commerce in there but how good was it to learn about native bush ingredients? But as always we are here for the e commerce insights. Here are my top three takeaways. Number one EDMs shouldn't always be sales pitches Thalia's 45% repeat customer rate didn't happen by accident. Kakadu Plumco has nailed email email marketing by focusing on consistency, value and personalization. I loved how Talia sends an educational email every Sunday that isn't just about selling, it's about sharing knowledge, building trust and creating a real connection with customers. And I especially love that she's recognized how important that is in the overall sales and engagement cycle. It's a great reminder that regular value packed communication can drive drive long term loyalty and sales without always pushing for the immediate hard sell. If you're not already sending consistent value driven emails to your database, think beyond discounts, share insights, tips or behind the scenes stories that really resonate with your customers. Number two, find your people and stick with them. It's so easy to get distracted by the latest platform everyone's raving about, but Talia reminded us that not not every channel is the right fit for every brand. Kakadu Plumco's older, more loyal audience lives on Facebook and email, so naturally that's where her focus and her budget goes. It's a smart lesson for any e commerce business trying to do too much too fast. Take a look at where your best customers are engaging with you and where they're buying. Double down on these channels and don't feel pressured to jump on every new new channel trend. Better to be brilliant in one channel than pretty average across five. And number three, inventory chaos. Time to get organized. Managing 1200 plus products from remote suppliers all across Australia sounds like a bit of a logistical nightmare, but Talia is making it work. Her honesty about inventory headaches was refreshing and a great reminder that strong processes and supplier relationships are critical. If your stock levels keep you up at night, it's time to tighten things up. Put in time to review your inventory management systems and supplier processes. Are you forecasting accurately? Communicating clearly? Investing in the right tools, Getting on top of your inventory now could save you from big headaches down the line. It is at the heart of most customer satisfaction. Now, if this episode's given you something to think about, why not share it with a friend or a colleague? It helps us grow the Add to Cart community and keep these amazing conversations coming. And if you have a moment, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. A huge thanks again to our sponsors Shopify and Klaviyo for making this episode possible. Catch you next time on Add to Cart. Thanks for joining us today on Add to Cart to listen to all our e commerce conversations now in the hundreds. You can head on over to addtocart.com there you can also join up to our free private Slack community to share e commerce ideas, tips and questions with other listeners. You can also subscribe to the Add to Cart weekly newsletter and browse some of the video highlights from our chats. There is a lot there that's add to cart.com and if I can ask you one thing before you go. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague who could benefit. Or leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep those customers adding to cartoon.
