[Voiceover]: Really, really sick of having the Mary Poppins moment where you go into a meeting and pull everything out of your bag to find the one thing that you needed. Have I got all the information? Am I being a bit close minded about this? How can I optimize this? Success is subjective and success is something that is unique to you and what sets your soul on fire. Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail.
Nathan Bush: Every week Nathan Bush from E Commerce
[Voiceover]: Suite and an e commerce industry expert
Nathan Bush: will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep
[Voiceover]: you at the top of your game
Nathan Bush: and of course keep your customers adding to Cart. Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at e commerce talent agency E Suite. Now, something you might not know about me is is that I almost became a lawyer. And I say almost because I managed half a law degree before giving up and turning my hand to advertising. I know how to pick some reputable careers.
Nathan Bush: Right.
Nathan Bush: Well, my guest today actually went the distance with law, but just like me, sidelined law in favor of retail back in 2015. Kate Dillon is the co founder and the creative director of Sheline, a brand that creates statement making functional handbags that for working women. In this chat Kate shares how she stays creative and productive. She shares her journey to support local and how the bag market has bounced back in a new direction since COVID So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio, here's our conversation with Kate Dillon, founder and creative director of she Lion.
Nathan Bush: Kate, welcome to ADD to Cart.
[Voiceover]: Thank you very much for having me.
Nathan Bush: So good to see you here. Obviously heard a lot about Sheline and I'm fascinated by your story. Part lawyer, part retailer. Tell me how do those worlds come together?
[Voiceover]: Actually in a wonderful way that's very synergistic. To be honest. The retailer part grew out of being a frustrated lawyer. I couldn't find a handbag that suited my needs. Really, really sick of having the Mary Poppins moment where you go into a meeting and pull everything out of your bag to find the one thing that you needed. Also being the bag lady, where you go to work and you have your gross laptop bag, your beautiful handbag, your gym bag, your lunch bag, any other bag that you want to add into the mix. So that's where she lion was born. And yeah, I thought it would be relatively straightforward to start a business and start making handbags. Turns out it's way harder than being a lawyer. And I tell you what, I've learned more in the almost seven years of running my business than I have in any of the degrees that I've studied. So the best experience ever and I'm still growing and I'm still learning and I think that's the best part. But they work really well together because I think the ability to know that you can find the answer if you keep digging, which is the legal background has been really helpful in the business. But equally the creative thinking and the problem solving and the ability to be able to manage putting out fires all the time from the small business side has made me a lot calmer in the legal side because you know that there are different ways you can approach things in different angles and different lenses. And I don't know that my brain would have moved into those spaces had I not been forced to do that in my own business where all the accountability stops with you and you have to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Even if you don't have a rabbit or a hat, go find one. Yeah, exactly.
Nathan Bush: That's spot on about the different worlds and different types of thinking. What I didn't consider is the different ways of learning because I did half a law degree before dropping out.
[Voiceover]: Oh.
Nathan Bush: You know, and I just couldn't do that type of sit down and read through textbooks and do all the reading required. Whereas e commerce comes a little bit more naturally because it's just get hands on and get in and doing. Was that a shock to you coming over to the E commerce way of learning or were you kind of craving that?
[Voiceover]: I tell you what, I am like a bit of a hybrid person. I have this insatiable thirst for learning. I usually read about three books at a time and pick them up and put them down. Much to my husband's dismay. He's like, you've got way too many books next to the bed. I'm like, I'm reading all of them so you can't be reading all of them. And I get bored easily. So I feel like I need a lot of variety. So I need to do both, to be honest. I need to get in and amongst it and I feel like I need to understand the how and read. So I think that's why they work well together because I kind of feel like I need to do both otherwise I get frustrated.
Nathan Bush: So tell me about she line. So obviously the origins there is carrying around multiple bags for different purposes and you're like, there must be a better way to do this. Had no one kind of redesigned the handbag before?
[Voiceover]: Well, not in 2015. No. No. Nobody had really thought from the end user's perspective about creating a bag, particularly from a working woman's perspective, that wouldn't break, that really could hold everything you needed to carry. I mean, back in 2015 we really did carry two phones and paperwork and a very big laptop and the charges and everything else. All the work paraphernalia as well as all your normal stuff and handbags. If you tried to put all that in there, your best sort of option was a canvas bag. And they're not attractive. They weren't back then.
Nathan Bush: It's a bit hard to go into like high profile client meetings with a canvas bag.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Or even like a compendium. There weren't a lot of options there either that could carry a lot of gear. And yeah, I was just sick of going into meetings where all these men had these beautiful bags that had all these compartments and there was nothing like that for women. That was a bit out there that allowed you to express your feminine power, so to speak, without it being like a really big label and then still be quite functional. So that fusion of the ability to express yourself and functionality was really important to me. So bringing out bags that were psychedelic or sequin or diamante or polka dot or electric blue is absolutely where that went. And really strong, like very, very different robust reinforcements that a lot of the manufacturers I worked with hadn't used before. And then we would go and send them off for testing and do like a thousand bag drops or put like 20 kilos of gear in there and see how long it took for them to break to make sure that they did survive. And it was amazing. It's a great experience to learn how to do that. And I feel like we're continually iterating because everything has a shelf life. And a lot of people are making handbags with compartments now, which is great news because that's what we needed. But yeah, I feel like our handwriting is a bit different. We're definitely more of a statement making work bag. So I still feel like we have that differentiator at the moment. And now we make end to end Australia made apparel because obviously when Covid happened, the problem we were solving largely is commuting and that just stopped. Stopped overnight, particularly in Melbourne. So people didn't need a work bag to take their gear from the kitchen to the home office any longer. So we wanted to do something that would bring as many small businesses together as we could because we were really Worried that we were going to die and we wanted to do something that would showcase a product that could be made end to end, zero to wear in Australia. And a sweatshirt seemed like something that was simple and again, it was not. Turns out there's lots and lots of different technical elements in there. Even if you do know how to make handbags from scratch and understand pattern making from a leather handbag perspective and reinforcements and seam structure, it is so different in the apparel space. And I was very fortunate that so many people came together to support us to get there. And yeah, we were thrilled with the outcome and I think it's really started a conversation again which has been fantastic.
Nathan Bush: I have a very important announcement for you.
Nathan Bush: Shopify's team have officially exported all of their code, plonked it in an esky and submerged it into the Arctic. The official code freeze has begun running from November 18 to November 22. Shopify will not ship any new platform
Nathan Bush: changes to production during this time.
Nathan Bush: But instead of using all that ice for a delicious cocktail, the Shopify team are all hands on deck ready to support you while you maximize your peak sales. They are right beside you and they actually might need your help to remove
Nathan Bush: some of their tongues from the frozen
Nathan Bush: code on the other side of this.
Nathan Bush: Good luck.
Nathan Bush: This Black Friday go well.
Nathan Bush: Was local a focus for you pre Covid, or was it Covid that made you realize? Actually, no, it's in our backyard Covid,
[Voiceover]: because we hadn't been able to do the handbags here. Sadly, there just isn't the componentry or the scalability or the reinforcements or the materials available here. And I had looked, I did all of the RMIT courses and have some amazing mentors and specialists in handbag construction here that are my friends and have supported me throughout the process. But there just isn't the ability unless you're big enough to bring people over that can do that. And we're not at that stage yet, but we do work with some incredible artisans overseas and they are all ethically sourced and work in fabulous working conditions and are paid appropriately. But apparel, we do have a whole lot of ability here. So even though it can be quite hard to find and source, we do have all of those elements here. And that was sensational to bring more than 20 businesses together to produce one top. So 300 hands touch one top. Yeah, that was a big shock to me too. But yeah, so something small like this can make a really big difference to a whole lot of people's livelihoods and a whole lot of jobs. And it's actually an industry that contributes more than 27 billion to the economy annually. And that's without scaffolding from a federal level or a state level. So imagine if we really propped it up.
Nathan Bush: And have there been any benefits that you've come across with local manufacturing and that local supply chain that you probably weren't even considering when you went down that path compared to the experience that you've had with overseas manufacturing?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, absolutely. The experience with overseas manufacturing has taken a while to build like really strong relationships, like with anything. But it's a lot harder because you have to jump on a plane and go and see people. You can only do that, you know, a certain amount of times a year if you're lucky. Whereas, I mean, Covid was a different scenario that was all over zoom and over and couriers and phones and texting, but the ability when we came out of lockdown to be able to actually go and see these people. And it's all of this extra service level piece where you can go in and they can talk you through why something will work or why something won't work. And you can actually see it and you can see the working conditions and you can go and meet all the people and all the different people with all the different levels of the supply chain and you can understand exactly where something has come from and how it's been made and how it turns into the end product. And all of those pieces are magical because that contributes to having a better outcome because you can actually see and manage and be involved in each of those processes to make sure you're 100% getting what you're after, which you don't always have the ability to be able to do when you're manufacturing overseas unless you stay for that whole process.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And we can see the cool sweatshirts you've got behind. You've got great logos. They look really quality beautiful. So can see for those people who can't see it's Support Local, we've got the tiger logo. What else have we got?
[Voiceover]: We do have an actually I Can, which was the Hero product. I'm not wearing that today though. I'm wearing Support Local, which is also the hero for. But it was about actually I can because actually we can. And actually together we can do this and we can bring back a lot of the manufacturing that we once had. And I think Covid has taught us that, you know, we don't want to be totally reliant on overseas. We want to be a bit more self reliant, particularly if we have this skill set in our backyard. And it does bring the wealth back to Australia and enables us to have more visibility on our supply chain and more circularity and sustainability. Sustainability and the ability to have ethical sourcing and be able to actually meet all of the people in the supply chain rather than just the merchandiser or the person that you're dealing with at the factory. That's incredible. Makes a big difference.
Nathan Bush: And if we've got retailers listening to this and going, this actually sounds, you know, this is something we should be trying to play with, looking at whether it's just for a product range, not even for the whole whole range. You mentioned that there was 300 pairs of hands to make a sweater like that can be really intimidating for people going, oh, geez, where do I get started? How would you recommend that people get started investigating their backyard as a supply chain network?
[Voiceover]: Yes. Well, that was the biggest piece, to be honest. That's the hardest part. And I was really lucky to have had a whole lot of conversations with people who would then cross refer me or suggest that I speak to other people. And then since going through this experience, the Fashion Council actually has this amazing directory of a whole, a lot of makers on their website. So that is an incredible resource, which I didn't know about previously, which people should absolutely go and check out.
Nathan Bush: And that's the Australian Fashion Council.
[Voiceover]: Yes, the Australian Fashion Council has a directory of makers and you can search by any area of specialty and they have a very big list. And equally makers should go and list on that directory to make sure that they're contactable that way too.
Nathan Bush: That's great.
[Voiceover]: Tip.
Nathan Bush: And it's funny that you say that because the network then brings more networks. Right? You find one person and then they go, cool. You could use a, B or C. They're in the backyard as well.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Bush: And what was the hardest piece? So obviously you've gone in with this vision that, look, let's start with a sweatshirt. How hard can it be? 300 pairs of hands to make a single sweatshirt. What was the hardest piece of the puzzle to put together?
[Voiceover]: Not dying. We like, this was a big risk and a big punch. And as many businesses suffered like we were, we absolutely suffered. We lost like more than 40% losses, like literally in the first couple of months after the lockdown happened because people just didn't need bags. Like, we had a lot of really wonderful customers that were still buying, but it wasn't a product that served a need that people had any longer. And then obviously, on top of that, there was all the freight and logistics increase in prices. So it's like 30% plus increase in materials and freight and logistic costs. So we really put our body on the line with the last bit of capital. We had to go all in to make a product that we hoped was going to be a feel good product that would bring a whole lot of people together and that if we went down in flames, at least we'd given it a red hot go and we were doing something that was good. Yeah. And it was amazing because essentially all these other businesses came together to support us and then we got an incredible exposure and priority because so many people had been involved and it became this really big advocacy piece for Australian fashion and textiles and that there really is all this opportunity, but there needs to be more support and there need to be some conversations about how we make it more attractive to manufacture back here, given the pricing and the profit margins is obviously different overseas. Even if you are ethically and responsibly sourcing people, how can we incentivise that and how do we change that? And what's a new way to approach that so that more, more designers use more of the people that we have here? And how do we make sure we have succession planning and how do we introduce apprenticeships that are government supported and how do we get more people interested in the trades and how do we get more people aware that there are all these different trades? Because most people, I think, think of carpentry and electrician and they don't necessarily think of cutter and seamstress and mill manufacturer and garment manufacturer. And these are all incredible skill sets that we need to cultivate and foster if we want to keep them here.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. I think there's almost like an assumption now in market that if you want any of those services, you have to go overseas to get them.
[Voiceover]: Well, you don't.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, exactly.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then coming off the back of COVID like any industry, there's obviously a capacity piece as well and a skill shortage. So, I mean, this is a systemic piece. There is multiple different factors that are feeding into a very, very big wicked that we would need people that are very interested in coming together to try new ways of solving it, to pull their brain stress to solve it. It's not an easy fix and I
Nathan Bush: think it's a lot more appealing too. If people are considering going into these trades and they know that there's cool new brands and entrepreneurs trying to push the boundaries locally, that's pretty appealing. Right.
[Voiceover]: But also you'd Be running your own business and you have to be across all of these different areas too. So, yeah, I think a big piece of it must also be a knowledge factor around what it involves. But it is multi layered and I don't definitely don't have the answers. I've just been the agitator to make sure people are thinking about it and putting it front of mind.
Nathan Bush: I hope the bag market has it bounced back since COVID It has bounced
[Voiceover]: back a bit, but it's bounced back in an entirely new direction, which is obviously to be expected because I think everybody has bounced back in a new direction. I mean, we're different people now. How could we not be? We have different values, we see the world differently, we want different things. And I think what gives us meaning in life and where we're wanting to go has been categorically changed. And so the person that was buying a Sheline bag pre Covid is not the same person any longer. And so we're absolutely leaning into that and doing a lot of customer surveys and engagement and wanting to find out what it is that they want. But it's very much, I think, more joy, like things that spark joy. So lots of color, lots of fun, still incredibly robust. I think a lower price point given consumer confidence and inflation is obviously affecting all businesses and the ability to have some circularity or sustainability in there as well and a really transparent understanding of your supply chain.
Nathan Bush: So it's a very different business to what you started out with.
[Voiceover]: Well, yeah, I think we were always sustainable and focused on beautiful leathers and premium and yeah, arguably we're taking a very new direction and we're leaning much more into that fearless approach rather than the premium. Practicality is absolutely core to the brand and the bold ambition. But the walking fearlessly piece, I think has become front and center. It's about being able to express yourself. Having a really robust, strong handbag that will back you and be a tool for you and enable you to walk fearlessly so that you can conquer your big audacious goals and feel like you can make a statement with your fabulous outfit and your handbag won't let you down as something dowdy that's not going to be able to carry what you need when you need it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, and I was going to ask you about that walk fearlessly because it is such a big part of the DNA of Sheline there. And you mentioned some of, you know, how we've all changed over Covid and who we were beforehand isn't who we are now. Same as Our businesses. Does walk fearlessly mean something different to you now than it did seven years ago?
[Voiceover]: Only that it's grown so much more ingrained into absolutely every element of the business. And I think that she line now isn't just limited to bags. It is about a lifestyle. And I think it is about the fact that success is subjective and success is something that is unique to you and what sets your soul on fire, and that you need to have the courage to lean into that and embrace that. And that's where that walk fearlessly piece comes from. And anything is possible with perseverance and guts and determination. And if you want it, you can do it and you can make it happen. And that's what walk fearlessly is.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And it sounds like you've had to be fearless at some points of that Covid journey as well. Wouldn't have been easy the entire journey.
[Voiceover]: I feel like everybody has to be fearless. Everybody has to be fearless at the moment.
Nathan Bush: Maybe different reserves of fearlessness.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're all valid. Every level is valid. You know, every level is valid.
Nathan Bush: One of the things that I love on the site, and you mentioned circularity before, is that you've got a partnership with Aerobe.
[Voiceover]: We do, yes.
Nathan Bush: And we were lucky enough to have a chat with Beth, the Australian gm, a few months ago. And I just love Beth and what they're doing there. How's that partnership been for you? And are you seeing that customers are really kind of seeking out these options?
[Voiceover]: I think they are. You know, I think this is this new space for a whole lot of businesses and such a clever idea. And it creates a whole new market for people to be able to enter into too, if that the product has been too premium for them to be able to buy at full retail. It gives them a whole new life and a whole new love with a new person, which is fabulous.
Nathan Bush: Does it help you keep. I know you talked about lowering prices in response to consumer confidence, but do you think something like Aerobe also helps justify a higher cost? When people go, oh, there's actually a resale value. So even though it's, I don't know, making up numbers here, $600, but down the track, I can sell it for 450. It's really only costing me 150.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely, absolutely. Because then they feel like they're kind of renting it. Absolutely, yeah. Or just owning it for a period and then being able to pass on the quality. And also the piece is that we're adamant about making bags that last. So that it's a slow fashion piece essentially. So it will last and it won't break, within reasons, but it is designed to manage a fair amount of stress, more than the standard handbag.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And we were just talking before we press record around learning new e commerce skills and how hard it can be, especially when you're doing multiple jobs and you're running a business. What has been from a tangible like building a front end, what's been the most challenging part of that for you?
[Voiceover]: I suppose feeling like you're wedded to a certain aesthetic and being able to step away from that and say, is it the user experience though? Are you creating obstacles to purchase? Even though you're wanting it to look a certain way, you need to hand over to the specialist that's actually giving you the advice to say, actually it should be like this because this is going to make it more seamless for the user. And constantly being able to be humble enough to let go of something that you really connected to to say this person knows better and this is about the end user and how do I make the customer experience the most delightful and the most seamless and the most smooth? I think that's always something that I have to work on because I like a lot of color and movement and video and slideshows and all those things aren't always the best thing for purchasing. But yeah, I tell you what, it's just the same as any of the pieces in my journey. I really have jumped in not knowing anything and just keen to learn. And I think as long as you're open to changing your mind and to learning and to recalibrating and just saying, you know, have I got all the information? Am I being a bit close minded about this? How can I optimize this? You're on the right track to being able to make sure that you pick up the lessons that you should and you optimize and move forward with success.
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Nathan Bush: what's your approach? What's your process for getting feedback from customers? Because I could imagine you get a lot of different feedback from customers discovering Sheline for the first time, right?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a very vocal customer base, which is great. So often it's not difficult to get feedback because people will take the time to offer it to you, which is wonderful. So for instance, our negotiator backpack, which is a core product that was launched on 15th July 2015 on the launch night, has iterated a few times and most recently with our very, very recent customer engagement feedback, there was a request to have a new easy access pocket for your phone, another one, and also a luggage pass. And so those pieces have now been built into our pre order. That's going to launch in two weeks. But it's a regular process or people are wanting straps to be a different way or to be more padded or to be longer or a different colorway or a different construction or for a different purpose. And that's really helpful. And people are very forthcoming in our customer base, so that's great. And then they're also really happy to complete a survey, which I think is. We're very lucky that they're so engaged to do that because that's really helpful for us.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I could imagine that, you know, exactly like you said, you've got a lot of passionate customers making requests and giving you suggestions. As an SMB, you still can't do everything right.
[Voiceover]: No, you can't.
Nathan Bush: How do you reply to people that you go, I actually love the idea, but logistically, commercially just doesn't make sense for us.
[Voiceover]: I think it's more about. Absolutely. You can think that in your mind, but I think it's more about going back to the customer and saying, I really appreciate the time that you've taken to give us this feedback and I will absolutely include that in our car park so that it's something that we can look to do. And at the moment we're a really small team and we absolutely want to action that and we will look to action that when we can. And thank you for giving us that concept because now it's in the bank and we'll make sure we look to it going forward and then you action what you can when you can. Exactly as you say, because you have limited ability when you're small. But then I suppose you've got to look at feasibility versus impact and see what's going to make the most impact and what can you feasibly execute and then choose those things and execute on those?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, makes sense. I love that you have turned to retail and turned to E commerce to unleash your creativity.
[Voiceover]: Yes. Does that sound weird?
Nathan Bush: No, it doesn't sound weird at all. I think creativity is at the heart of entrepreneurship, especially in an industry like ours where you can change things on a dime, you can do exactly what you're doing you're doing and learn about things that you're interested in and go down these paths like the walls are coming down essentially. And you can unleash your creativity in all different ways. For people who might be listening to this and they love e commerce, but they still hold a day job where they're feeling they're being held back in their creativity. Do you have any tips for those people on how they might be able to be more creative day to day with a view that someday, yes, you'll explore your creative passions, but it's really important that people live creatively every day.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many different things that you can do, but one of the best ones is just to carry a notebook with you and write down all of the thoughts that you have throughout the day and make sure you're capturing all those incredible ideas that I'm sure you're coming up with. And if you're not, then I would challenge you to come up with as many ideas as you can in a day or in a certain time frame. Even if you sat down for 10 minutes and say, I bet I'm going to come up with 20 ideas and they could be as zany as possible and you make sure you capture them
Nathan Bush: all and you're like a write them down kind of person. Not a voice memo.
[Voiceover]: You could do voice memo. You could do voice. For me personally, I feel like my brain commits them to memory. Better if I write them down. And you know, that is that funny thing when you're studying, I don't know, I can't even remember the source. But effectively you can type faster than your brain can remember. So like you could be in a lecture and be typing all the notes and you won't necessarily retain as much as you would if you hand wrote it. I mean, handwriting is very tedious and I'm the daughter of two doctors, so you can't read my handwriting. It's just useless. So I have to type. But I love drawing and I love mind mapping and I love creating A visual of something that I'm thinking about. And equally if I'm trying to translate something to someone else, a visual is an easier way for me to be able to explain it. I mean, you have to understand other people's learning styles is different from your own, so you've got to check that first. But pictures speak a thousand words and I think that's really true. And if you're able to do some doodling and carry a notebook with you, there's just something really incredible about being analog with a pen and a notepad to really capture a bit of creativity in your day.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I think it's almost like meditation. Right. Because you talk mind mapping and there's plenty of us have been taught how to mind map, but it's probably more a state of mind is what I've found is like you've just got to be willing to just let it go.
[Voiceover]: Let it go, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's all about letting go of all the boundaries and being a bit blue sky, imagining you had no obstacles, you know, what would you do if all of your dreams came true? What does success look like for you in a year? What does success look like for you in five years, if anything was possible? And writing that down and then seeing where that takes you. Because then when you look back at it the next day or three days later, you'll be like, gosh, what about this? What about this other thing?
Nathan Bush: It's planting the seeds in the back of your mind. I don't know what's going to happen with it, but.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. And then you let your subconscious do the work.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Work while you sleep. It's great. And you, you know, we talked about how you got started. You had some great mentors and you've got that local community around you. How do you stay inspired? Like, how do you keep that creative going? Because you're running the business, you're still, you're working part time in law, still, you're a mum, you've got a lot going on. How do you stay inspired?
[Voiceover]: I think a big thing about creativity, for me at least, is constantly changing up the way that you do things so that you're not going into autopilot. And I don't have much ability to go into autopilot with all of the things at the moment. And I think that's a huge part of what keeps me inspired. Because you've got to be on your toes to think about, is there a better way to do this? How can I execute this? In a more efficient way? Or is there just a more creative or inspiring way for me to do this? Or do I need more space for me for thinking? Or should I go play more dinosaurs with my sons? It's always in the random times that you have the best ideas, I think, or the best epiphanies, but you've got to be putting yourself in those places. So not walking to work the same way each day or making sure you just change up something that you do in your day. Move that regular meeting that you have on a Tuesday to the afternoon, or do it for 10 minutes rather than half an hour. Little tiny things like that shift your mind and in a way that's really quite profound that make a big difference and it doesn't have to be a big change, but it will have a big impact on what happens in that day for you and how you think and how you approach the rest of your day.
Nathan Bush: That's a great tip. If you're struggling day to day, you're getting to the point where something becomes a real grind and you look back and you go, well, it's because we've been doing it the same way week after week for however many years. You go, let's do little shifts up, let's change it. It's a really good tip. So you mentioned taking the time to think ahead of the next plan for the next year, the next three years. What are the things that are coming up for yourself and Sheline that you're really excited about?
[Voiceover]: We're really excited about actually developing a entrepreneurial leadership course which is around empowering everyone to step into that mindset. Whether you are an entrepreneur yourself, you probably already know, but actually probably more for a larger corporate to be more intrapreneurial within a large environment and breaking that down. So it's a lot more relatable. So it's about having problem finding skills, problem solving skills and self starting self management skills and actually having actionable strategies to put them into practice so you can see the value immediately and use that. Because I think in this time that we're now living in, there is so much uncertainty and there's so much change and you need to be able to have some pieces that you can grab onto that make you feel like you're able to make a dent and have some success and have a little bit of certainty because these pieces are within your span of control or thinking about things in a different way to be able to feel more comfortable moving forward.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome. That's very exciting. I think there's a huge need for that, especially people who are thinking exactly the way you were thinking. It was like, I need a creative outlet. I could be an entrepreneur, but I don't know what's involved. Yeah, I love it. All right, so if people have listened to this and they're thinking, oh, I've got to have a look at these sweatshirts now that we've described them, or I want to learn more about the Sheline story, what's the best way to get in touch with.
[Voiceover]: Please come to shelion.com au and I would absolutely love you to buy a sweatshirt. You will be supporting 20 plus small businesses in that supply chain and it's all about the story. But they are really beautiful and they will last. They're so comfortable to wear and they say, actually I can. And they say, walk fearlessly now. And we've just released our black collection, vintage black, which are really cool. And so absolutely go online and please sign up and subscribe and you'll get some great tips fortnightly around all the things that we've discussed and always happy to chat or field questions. You can reach out to me as well through our Contact Us page.
Nathan Bush: Kate, brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing your story and inspiring us this morning. It's a great way to kick off a Monday.
[Voiceover]: Oh, no, thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate the support.
Nathan Bush: Now, if there's any lessons that we got out of that chat with Kate, it's that we've all got to make the effort to support businesses that support local communities and we all have a role in that as consumers. Here's the lessons that I got as a retailer. Number one, local supply chains. And I think this one's obvious, right? Kate told us about the impact a local supply chain can have on the community. She Talked about the 300 hands here in Australia, in Melbourne, that go into creating she lion sweatshirts. So just like Kate, even if it's not the full range, you can experiment with certain product lines to see if you can get the benefits of the amazing creators and producers around you in the local area. If you're unsure where to start, take Kate's suggestion and check out the Australian Fashion Council website. It's a great resource if you're looking for local suppliers who are backed by the Australian Fashion Council. When you're first starting out or looking for a local supplier, get on there and have a look. Number two, objectively, customer focus. Kate has a strong vision and she knows exactly what she likes. And as a founder, this is a great trait, but it can also become a weakness if it becomes a blind spot. I mean, what we are drawn to may not always be the best thing for the customer experience, especially once we know our own brand inside out and we are on our website every day, we are no longer looking at this with the same eyes as our customers. So Kate said she always tries to take a step back and recognize her own bias and ask herself, am I being a bit close minded about this? It's a great question to ask ourselves when pushing out new experiences. Number three Jotting and mind mapping. This one's close to my heart. One of Kate's tips that I resonated with was carrying a notebook with you and taking the time to jot down and explore ideas as they come to you. In that moment, how many times have you had a great idea and thought I'll write that down later? And then it's gone. A quick SMS to yourself. A voice note. A notepad beside the bed. We've got all the tools to get these ideas down quickly and explore them while they're fresh. You've just got to have the systems in place. You'll thank yourself later. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free e Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
