Greg Taylor: I've got to stop chafing, I've got to stop sweaty balls, and I want the things to not ride up. So how do I achieve all of those things? When I saw these sort of things, I was like, I do not want to be part of this. I don't want to make this. I want to be really proud of the product, but also proud of where it's come from, how it's been made. I remember ordering about half of them in my size, which is an xl, because I figured that if it all goes to shit, then at least I'll have good underwear for the rest of my life.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game. And of course, keep your customers adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at E commerce talent agency E Suite. It's the small things that sometimes can make a massive difference to your day. Good coffee, free parking, and my very personal favorite, comfy undies. My guest today has made it his business to ensure that no man or woman has to suffer the discomfort of conventional underwear's main drawbacks. Chafing, riding up and, dare I say it out loud, sweaty balls or bits. I've got to keep this gender neutral. I bet you weren't expecting that in your morning podcast. Greg Taylor is the founder and the CEO of Step One, a brand that has reached cult status making comfortable, functional and ethical jocks. The company, now valued at $60 million on the ASX, has gone from 0 to 6% of the men's underwear market since it launched only five years ago in 2017 and has recently expanded to make a range for women. In this chat, Greg shares the problem that led him on a journey into underpants design. Kind of sounds like a spongebob episode. The tricks he's learned for making sure manufacturing is truly ethical and how being a founder isn't always easy, especially when you've got to sleep on your mate's couch. So, thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Paclio, here's our conversation with Greg Taylor, founder and CEO of Step One.
Nathan Bush: Greg, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cart.
Greg Taylor: Thank you for having me, Nathan. It's been, I think, 2005, 2006. We first spoke and I was, I think I was vlogging coffee cup ads on coffee cups to you back in
Nathan Bush: the day and I was buying newspaper ads, I think. So we've been on quite a journey to get here.
Greg Taylor: Yeah, the time certainly has changed. And if you said to me when I was vlogging ads on coffee cups back then that I'd be now vlogging bamboo underwear. So quite a journey. Not one that I would say I've mapped out, but yeah, it's interesting to see where people land.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. So we're here to talk predominantly about step one, but obviously we'd love to hear about your journey to get there and a phenomenal story so far. I was actually surprised in the research. We've done a little bit of work together recently as well. But I was actually surprised to go, you've only been around since 2017, you're already a household name, especially here in Australia. Revenue of $70 million per year. Profitable. Does it blow your mind sometimes when you look at what's happened in four years?
Greg Taylor: I often get asked this question and the simplest way I look at this is that it's not four years that has happened. It's been the other seven businesses that I've gone through where I've learned how not to do things and how to do things. And I think, yeah, you sort of think it was a four year overnight success. But if you go back six, seven years, I was sleeping on a mate's couch and I had the opportunity, the only option I had was move back home with my parents in Bendigo or sleep on a mate's couch and try and make an underwear brand work. So that just sort of goes to show you the speed which things change, but also that it doesn't just happen in four years. And the amount of learnings I've taken across the other seven businesses have flowed in, which has enabled me to grow step one so quickly. So yeah, it's, it's sort of on the face of it, yes, four year success and you, you've come out the gates, but people don't see you in the, in the trenches and doing the hard yards and, and that's not the stuff that generally sells newspapers. It's sort of from zero to hero. But you've got to get. A lot of people don't realize is that there's a lot of zero in there, I should say.
Nathan Bush: So take us back to that zero moment, sleeping on a mate's couch. Where were you at that point in your life? Like, what was the business you'd come off going into that moment.
Greg Taylor: Yeah, it's an interesting one, Nathan, because I was actually was in tech business before this. I was at a bar tab app called Cliff and I came up with it because I, I just kept leaving my credit card behind the bars and this was like 2012 or so and, and apps just started coming out and I, I'd gone from a coffee card app where you'd scan a little QR code on the counter of the cafe and it would count how many coffees and the loyalty program for your coffees. And then I thought I kept losing my car, I'll leave my car buying credit at the bar. So I thought there's got to be a better way. And like anything, necessity is mother invention, right? So I thought, okay, what could we do here? There's apps coming out and what if you create a bar tab app? So I started putting my mind together on how it would work. And if you went back and looked at what the business achieved in such a short amount of time, the problem was you had to indirect to the point of sale system in the pubs and there's about 20 different point of sale venue. So but then what would happen is that the elevator pitch was walking to a bar. It would say, would you like to open a tab? And your photo appears on the POS machine and they charge you an email you the receipt. Then we managed to get that up and running. So we had about nearly a thousand pubs across the country that had it in. We had integrations with 10 or 15 of the pause vendors, but it was before its time, I think a little bit too much into that. Great idea. But probably about a year after we launched PayWave came out. So this concept is because otherwise you stuff to, you know, if you want to pay on a credit card, you have to go down the end of a bar, do the signature, do that kind of stuff. And then PayWave came out. So we do did the older pivot, you'd say, where we created a last minute deals offer. So you basically like on a Monday the pub's quiet. So you'd offer 10 tables at 40% off and vice versa. So pivot into that and then that just didn't work again. So it obviously took a lot of learnings out of that. But I managed to scrape some money out of that business and out of that business it was either go and get a job, which I'd never actually had in my life before when I say real job or come up with another idea. And I was hiking in New Zealand and Started chafing and I got big land, used to row and I felt I've told this story a million times, but yeah. And then I thought there's going to be a better way and went and did some research online and there wasn't anything other than creams and powders, which I was using. So I thought, well, underwear hasn't changed in 50 years. And at the time, my partner had just started selling a sudden Ecom brand herself called the fable selling women's silk shirts. I started looking at, this is really the first taste I got of E Comm. And I was looking at how she built a business, how she structured it and everything looks easy from the outside. But then sort of delved into how the business worked and very, very cleverly. She'd gone after, had a job and took six months off, went to India to yoga ashram and she likes silk shirts. So she got some silk matte shirts made in India, send them to some friends and they said, oh, can I grab this? But in this color and vice versa. So really classic case of how ecom brands start. So she started making a whole bunch of shirts, then turned into a business and she's made that really successful. And we met around the time she launched. So I was sort of thinking, you see, there's something in this ecom thing. It's going to come and then. Yeah, sort of thing we have what sort of product that people. But it wasn't. The product wasn't a function of wanting to move into the E commerce. It was more of a basis around what problem can I solve? And then how will that functional problem, how can I get that to the masses? And this is where Ecom has really blown the doors down in terms of 20 years ago. You'd have to go to an office, say, rent a shop, figure it out by X amount of stock. And so I had, I would say no more than 15 grand to get this business started and up and running. So with that money, had to go to go to China, find a factory, create samples and then. But you don't have this huge cost of a shop that you've obviously got to set up.
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Nathan Bush: After the businesses, the lessons before that, was there any trepidation about putting that last 15k into this idea at that point, or were you just all in, like, certain that it was going to work?
Greg Taylor: Well, it was funny because I got to the point where I thought, well, I'm screwed either way, right? I'm even going to have to get a job and go down that route.
Nathan Bush: So you've got to make that your book title when you write one. I'm screwed either way.
Greg Taylor: I'm screwed either way. So I'm going to be getting a job with if this doesn't work. But I knew the moment that I went to the factory and I was trying these different fabrics and what have you, and then when I came up with the idea of putting the panels, like the ultra glide panels between the legs, and I pulled them on and I went, wow, this was a product. And for me, that was the pivotal moment that I knew that this brand or this product would have success. So one of the funny things actually is I ordered 5,000 pairs and I remember ordering about half of them in my size, which is an xl, because I figured that if it all goes to shit, then at least I'll have good underwear for the rest of my life. Because the factory checks several times, they're like, oh, yeah, Greg, you know, it should be medium, should be the highest amount, and then large and then extra large. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Why are you ordering half an xl? And you don't really want to explain to them that that was your theory or thinking at the time. But, yeah, that, that was it. So. And then literally, it was like a movie. You could have written a script for it. So how to. Great product. I was like, how do I move this? And so I went and I had a couple thousand bucks, came up with an idea for a video, went and shot it. It was very much just a blokes bloke ad around. It was a minute and A half. And if you talk about running a. An ad for an Ecom brand or a product now, it's a minute and a half long. You think you're in that every day of the week.
Nathan Bush: It only just scrapes into an Instagram reel, doesn't it?
Greg Taylor: Right minute 43. And then set the ad live, put the website live, posted the ad, and pretty much had a million views in the first week and sold out. Sold out of meetings very quickly, actually. So I wish I was doing discounts on extra large, but sold out really quickly. And that was the first time I got that feeling of. And for those who have started a business and know what how success feels. And the first time I really got that moment of, wow, this is cool. Then I heard a couple of the other people that have used Shopify talk about the kitching sound. And I remember being in the apartment in the early days, and you'd listen, if you hear this kitchen sound, you'd just jump up, oh, another one, another one. And then it gets to a point where you'd be at lunch and you'd start hearing it go off and your friends be like, what is that? Like, I just sold underwear. And people back then, there's only three, five years ago, they were like, you just sold underwear. And that thing told you, you did. I'd show them. And that's how much it's changed from when we started.
Nathan Bush: Do you remember your first sale of someone you didn't know?
Greg Taylor: Do you know what? It's interesting you say that, because when I launched it, there was a group of guys that helped me set it all up, and I gave codes to people and we had a chat group going. And then when this one came through, I looked at that and I was like. And. Cause we were like, when's the first random going to come? And was like, we want a random. And then, yeah, this one came through and I sent it through, like, I don't know. And then I looked up everyone's Facebook to see if they knew that person. Their LinkedIn advice. Oh, my God, does anyone know this person? And they're like, no, no, no. I was like, oh, my God, we've got our first real sale. And that was such a momentous occasion because it's. You've really sold something to someone who doesn't know you. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to now print out the label. Gonna have to put all the. Pack it in a box and send it and do the customer service. And. And back in those days, I used to like write handwritten notes or I'd email them and say, hey, thanks so much for being one of our first customers and let me know any feedback and those sort of things. And. And obviously you can't do that once you get to. Yeah, I sort of figured out the other day actually, and I was thinking, how often do we sell this? Because when I was looking at the people talking about the Shopify Kaching, we sell a pair of AF step ones every eight seconds now. So that sort of figure to go from. And keep in mind that whilst we've been going since 2017, the first two years were out of stock most of the time. So it was really only sort of 2019 onwards that we had enough stock to continue on with that. But. But again, to that sort of milestone of selling a pair every eight seconds is something certainly I didn't my wildest dreams you could achieve.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. And for those who haven't had the pleasure of pulling on a pair of step ones, they are actually designed different too, aren't they? So can you just share with our audience how you've designed step ones to be different from the regular undies?
Greg Taylor: It's one of the things, when I thought back on this, I was like, I. If I was going to make something, I didn't just want to make something that was better or more comfy or the comfiest or the betterest or whatever it was, that's not going to sell or move product. And that's why the, the essence of what made me want to make this pair of underwear was to solve a functional problem. So because that was the thesis behind what I was, it also meant that the product itself wasn't just going to be a pair of underwear with three flat panels of cotton stuck together. And underwear hasn't changed in 50 years. So that was how I came up with the idea. I've got to stop chafing, I've got to stop sweaty balls and I want the things to not ride up. So how do I achieve all of those things?
Nathan Bush: Oh, sustainable as well, right?
Greg Taylor: Yeah. Well, this is where it got really interesting for me because I went over to the factories myself in China and I went to some horrendous factories. Nathan. It was like, this is really at the coal face where you walk into these factories, it was the middle of summer and they don't call them sweatshops for nothing. Like there's literally. I understand why they call them sweatshops. And whilst I was going through this journey, I really made me realize that I wanted to be proud of the product I made, but I didn't want it to come from a place where, you know that kids are working. And then I went into lots of these different factories and I started learning little things, little tricks. So they'd have like a roll of machines and you'd walk through the factory and if there was someone missing, a worker missing, you'd start to think, why is the worker missing? Because they have very set times of breaks and things like this. And then I worked out. I went over to the seat and I felt the seat and it was warm and I felt the machine and it was warm. And then I walked along a bit further and then saw another seat that was empty. And the seat was. The seat was warm, the machine was warm. And I was like, there's two workers missing here. I said to them, show me where these two workers are. And I looked around and there was a room down in the back corner. I remember this so vividly. Opened the door and there were kids in this room that were obviously working in the factory. And this is whilst I was going through the process of finding a factory. And it just broke my heart, like, it literally did. Just seeing these kids that were. Should have been at school and they're stuck to this machine and they just
Nathan Bush: hid them away because they knew you were coming.
Greg Taylor: Yeah. Hell yeah. And the amount of, like, things that you'd find and tricks you'd have to come up with, that was one of them. Like feeling the temperature of the seat. The other thing would be that. That all say that they're allowed to use music. So, you know, even little things with iPhones and things like that. The other trick I felt, sorry, I noticed was the fans that say, yeah, look, you know, we've got fans to keep the workers comfortable, but you could reach up and feel the fan motor, and if the fan motor wasn't warm, you knew they just turned it on whilst you did the factory, of the factory. So when I saw these sort of things, I was like, I do not want to be part of this. I don't want to make this. I want to be really proud of the product, but also proud of where it's come from, how it's been made. So that really kicked off the sustainable ethical journey for me and business, which I personally hold really dearly today. And then we'll forever. And then I guess if you don't go and experience those things and see them firsthand, you don't realize the impact that it would have going down the chain. If you support businesses like that, they're going to continue to do that. And that's why being ethically, ethically accredited has been such an important thing for us. And there's a hell of a lot of talking about we're ethical and we're sustainable around different businesses these days. But what I realized having gone from, from through this process is that there's a lot of greenwashing going on, in my view. And greenwashing can come in many different forms. And one of the things that people look at is our underwear is ethically accredited. Okay, but that's the factory that made the underwear. And so what about where the waistband. The waistband supplier? What about the cotton, sorry, the needle supply? What about the dyeing factory? So what I've done is, and it was in our annual report, is that we've been working, and I've been working on this for probably three, four years now, where we're not saying that we're ethically credited from where we make the underwear moving forward, we've gone all the way right back to where the bamboo comes out of the ground and made sure every step of the way from where the bamboo comes out of the ground to where it's knitted, to sewn the yarns, the dyeing, the cutting, the waistband, the packaging, every step of the way, all of those suppliers, they're ethically credited. We've got organic certification. And that's one thing that when people talk about, oh, yes, we're ethically accredited, we're sustainably accredited, but from what point are you. From where it came out of the ground, where the cotton came out of the ground, or where the bamboo came out of the ground, or from the factory, where it all comes to. And there's a huge difference. And people don't realize that these days.
Nathan Bush: And you mentioned that you wanted to do that because you wanted to leave a good mark yourself was really important to you personally, I've noticed in the step one personality and brand is that it's there as a message, but it's definitely not in your face as a message. You're very much got a different personality and it's one of the supporting things. Is there a reason that you kind of downplay the sustainability and the accreditations that you've got there?
Greg Taylor: Yeah, it's all around. And look, if you come to our site and by the time you got add to cart, as we call it, you'd know that we've got. We're very on the fourth on the front foot in regards to sustainability and it made ethically and all those sort of things. But from a point of view of where do we not push that up the chain in terms of our value proposition and advertising? And that is that over time people haven't considered that hasn't been a part of the purchase consideration. I knew it would be at some point. But if you went looking at five years ago and have at the top of funnel sustainably growing SB credited, people would just swipe. But now that you can put that into the top of funnel and that actually works and it shouldn't sound surprised, but there's one thing to say, yeah, I care about it. There's another thing to say, I'll pay for it. And there are two different things that come up with that. So as more and more businesses have thankfully become more and more evolved or conscious of it, we push that message up much higher into our messaging bank to a point now where we're now making ads that are just around our sustainability, our credibility and things like that.
Nathan Bush: Makes a lot of sense. You got to be where your customers mindsets are at. On the topic of funnels, one of the things that I did notice in your annual report was your cost to acquire customers and you give a lot of information in that report. But it has doubled essentially to about the $94 mark, which is double where it was even two years ago. And I know that paid performance, paid social is really important for you. What do you put this cost increase down to?
Greg Taylor: There's a number of things. Obviously as more people enter the market, it starts right at the top. So your CPA is at $94, but you've got to go all the way right back. Okay, what are my CPMs? What are we paying for? To see a thousand people. A thousand people to see an ad. What are we paying? And that as more people naturally come into E commerce and into the different buying online, there's only so many eyeballs that ads can see. So there's a natural emergence of people coming into digital and buying digitally. So that's, that's first of all second to then becomes about finding the balance between growth and profitability. So we have 60% repeat customer rate or near 60, which for an E commerce brand is quite phenomenal. And what that shows is two things. One is that you've got a great product and the customer had a great experience, but also shows that you've done the right things in terms of looking after the customer through the journey. And you've sold that what we say we've sold them. We've delivered on that. So we can say yes, it's stop chafing and won't create sweat and all these types of things. But the product doesn't leave up to its, its name or to what you say it will, then you're not going to get a 60% repeat purchase rate. And that's also underpinned by and unfortunately Google reset their reviews. Now not sure if any of the other people out there have seen it but Google used to have, you know, you can send me a review after you purchase. We got up to about 60,000 five star reviews but Google now do them. So it's only by the last six months, sorry last 12 months. So we have had like 50,000 five star reviews on Google and all of a sudden it dropped to like 20,000 or 25,000. And we're like why is this dropped? You know, I've got screenshots of it but they basically say it's only valid for 12 months.
Nathan Bush: So you don't have access to the old reviews at all?
Greg Taylor: No, it's all their stuff anyway. But you know, I mean I've got screenshots to show, you know, at some point we did have this number. But I think though also the independency of reviews is so critical in terms of, and getting back to your question, around $94 is okay. Growth versus profitability and we can still grow and we can still be profitable at 94 because there are underlying factors in that, that half our customers come back and they come back in various forms, whether it be for a limited edition print, whether it be for during a sale period. But I think it also comes back to the fact that underwear is a need, not a want. And I would hope that you're wearing it, you don't have to stream it now. But most people, and I've got caught out on this, you know, I say well every person in the world wears underwear.
Nathan Bush: It's a dangerous statement.
Greg Taylor: Yeah, it is actually. I never thought I'd get caught up that. But we'll 99.9 to the power of 10 do wear underwear. So it is a product. But if you make a great product, people love it, they love the brand, they love the story. You deliver on what you say you will and you give the customer a good experience. It shows you can still pay higher money for to acquire a customer. But the LTV of that customer is what really comes down to where we can expand. Having not only a male product but also a female product which we launch early in the year as well so yes, costs have gone up but we're in a unique position whereby we're still profitable clearly at that. We had a, an EBITDA of $9 million last year. So we still can run the business at a $94 CPA be profitable. But we look at the long term value of that, the LTV of that customer and that is that we know that they're going to come back, they're going to buy. But an underwear doesn't last forever. Yeah. So generally it's sort of like a 12 to 18 month life cycle depending on you care for them. So that is what's enabled us to obviously still pay the amount but I'm still doing profitably.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So it's more important to keep your customers in that lifetime value cycle rather than fret too much on the acquisition cost. If you get a lifetime value Right. You can shoulder some storms there.
Greg Taylor: Yeah. And that's sort of two years ago, even 12 months ago there were brands saying I don't care what it costs, just grow. And those days are long gone now. You know, there's a lot of funding that's disappeared and those sort of things. So it's quite unique for us to still be growing but still be spitting out a decent profit as well.
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Nathan Bush: Speaking of your female customer base, I was surprised to see that 40% of your customer base is female and you've recently expanded into the US and the UK as well. How have you gone about approaching these new markets? Because obviously you went to market very much in that blokey category. How has it been expanding both into female and into international markets?
Greg Taylor: Yes, so we've only expanded the women's brand to the uk. US is still our men's only product. But it's interesting how this figure came about and how we actually grew the Female base. And it was interesting. I remember the day I was sitting on the couch and there was the early days. You go through and look at all the orders. And I remember looking through each order and going, which ad did they come from? You know, the good old days where you could literally say, it came from this video. And I started seeing a lot of female names come up and I was like, why is there so many females buying this product? It's men's underwear. And I've done some research that men buy a new pair of underwear seven every seven years. So men. It's not something that men actively go out and want to spend money on. They generally get given as a gift or Christmas time, et cetera. And so what I did is I saw those other women's names in the database and so I pulled out one of our ads and changed the cork or the first two or three seconds of the ad to say, instead of saying, do you suffer from chafing? I changed it. Do you know a man that suffered some chafing and sent it just to target it, just to women? And the roas on that was like 15. It was insane. But it just went to show. So went to show that. That's the beauty of digital, is you can test something, test a hypothesis so quickly, see an answer literally within hours. And that really enabled us to then tweak our marketing to know that we're not just talking to men here, we're actually talking to women as well, which means that our TV audience buying is very broad. We're not just men. It's all people. 25:54, which is then also obviously your cheapest audience to target as well.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. I love those little hacks that you hear about. Given the incredible growth that you've had now a public company, do you still get a chance to be on the tools and find those little insights? Or is it all your team now?
Greg Taylor: No, I absolutely do. And we've got a group that we send stuff to and it's an ideas group. And I don't think. I can't. I don't know about you, but I can't go through social media or not. I've actually got a setting on. I forget what it's called on the browser that'll just show you the ads on Facebook so you can. You can scroll through it just. So just sit there on the weekend and just go, okay, just shame the ads. And you just come up with really good ideas around. How can you. If it's there? And whilst it was annoying, that they Facebook bought our ad library because now people can see what you run. Yeah, it works two ways. Right. So, yeah, I think, like, as the business has grown, it's been important to keep your finger on the pulse, but still make sure that when it comes down to hiring, we always have had the philosophy that hire someone smarter than you. So it's like, I should be the dumbest person at the table. And a friend of mine actually wrote a book of something along the lines of like, be this smart or don't be the smartest at the table, or be the dumbest at the table. And it's very true. Right. And you hire the right people to do the right job and if I can do it better than that person and they're not the right person for the job. So I think that really comes into a really important part about how you look at hiring staff and then how you move into different markets as well. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And we've got the pleasure of doing a bit of work with you at the moment, helping build out the team, a lot of growth happening and some really exciting e commerce positions opening up. What do you look for, apart from functional skills? What is the type of person who makes a great step? One kind of person.
Greg Taylor: When I look to hire someone, there are three things that they must pass before I consider having a second or a third interview. And this all forms into these three underpins the way that the business is built. And that is culture, Culture and culture. So if a person doesn't fit, if I can't sit down and have a beer with someone at a pub and I can't be friends with them, then it makes the work part of the job more difficult. But if you get on with someone, that's sort of 90% of the battle. And you then hire people to make sure that what they're doing the absolute best at doing in the business. And we don't have a huge team, we've got about 25, 30 people, which, for the size of the business and the output is quite small relative to other businesses in that size. But just goes to show, you hire the right people. And for me, culture is the most important. And one of the mantras that when people say, what's your motto? And all these sort of things, for me it's really simple. It's just treat others how you want to be treated. So we have a very flat structure here. You'd walk into the office, you wouldn't know who. So we all sit on the floor. Then we obviously have the creative area, the video area the it and vice versa. But it's very much the what makes a step. One person is someone that's happy, that wants to come to work every day. I think if you get that right, that comes all the way back to the culture of how you set up the business, who's involved in the business, and just treating other people how you want to be treated yourself is so important. I think people really undervalue how important culture is when you're building out a team.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Or people can't put their finger on what culture is. And you've got your version of culture, which is someone that I can sit down and have a beer with. And I think that's a great, you know, litmus tests of the people that you know will work in your business. Yeah.
Greg Taylor: And it might not just be have a beer. I mean, have it. What I mean by that is the
Nathan Bush: concept of being able to enjoy each other's company.
Greg Taylor: Yeah, exactly. And the only rule I have when you say, you know, the only rule I have is you do call me boss, you get fired. And for that reason, it's like, I don't see myself above or below anyone else. I treat others, as I've said, everyone else wants to be treated within the whole business. And that for me has been so important because it then makes people feel valued, that makes people not get. Feel valued. But most importantly, if they're doing something that they're the best at, they'll have input into the team and show that what they do is actually pulling the cart, not just getting lost as a number. That's doing a small thing and that's not going to make a difference. So I think that's really crucial as well.
Nathan Bush: Sounds like a dream for a lot of people. Building on that, I know you might be limited in what you can say being a public company, but can you give us any hints of what's coming up next? What's on your radar for step one and yourself?
Greg Taylor: Well, good night's sleep would be the first one.
Nathan Bush: Congratulations on the new bulb.
Greg Taylor: Thank you. We'll continue to obviously, do what we do and what we do best. And when I saw that figure that day of selling a pair of underwear every eight seconds, we only just started. We've got about 7% market share in Australia, we've got 1% in the UK. We haven't touched the US. We just launched our women's range. There's so much room for growth in the innerwear category. And having now 1.1 million customers is really testament to the Fact that we've not only made a great product, we've delivered on what we've said and we continue to do that in a ethical and sustainable way. So I think we continue to roll out that model with product adjacencies, meaning there's no way. We also like to look at the market is what reason we're giving people not to buy our underwear. So removing any of those barriers as well. So we're only just started on this and there's no reason to say that you can't just be the absolute best underwear business in the world. There's been some great brands that have just made one product that have done incredibly well and I haven't thought of any of these, but off the top of my head, someone like logo. Sorry, like Lego. Yeah, they sent you build bricks in different shapes and sizes and different collabs. I think what would be really cool would be doing some collab with some. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know who it is, but, like, we started playing around with some collabs with some other brands, but I think there could be some really clever collabs that we could do with some other Aussie icon, iconic brands. But, yeah, like, continue what we do and do it well and. But also, most importantly, have fun doing it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Build the business that you want to build. Right.
Greg Taylor: 100%. If you feel like work is not work, then you build a great business and you'll have a great company. How good?
Nathan Bush: Now, if we've got retailers listening to this, if we've got people, you know, going, I'd love to see how it could work at step one or potentially other brands going, I think we'd make a great collab partner. What's the best way for them to get in touch?
Greg Taylor: Slide into my DMs.
Nathan Bush: Hey, that is dangerous. Given how much we've talked about underwear in this conversation.
Greg Taylor: That was a joke. It's not hard to get in touch with us. So those who want to reach out and we look at everything that comes on, we take a look at. So, as I said like this, we haven't done any collabs. We've done no retail yet. I think there's still absolutely room for retail and E commerce to coexist. And I mean, retail still 80% of bricks and mortar, still 80% of the dollar. So there's a huge amount of growth opportunity there. But from brands and things that we did, we tested a small one with Frank Bodney the other day and, yeah, they're another Cool Aussie startup that's done incredibly well and a really cool group of people and put together a fantastic brand and taking it to the world. I think they're a great example of someone that I think has done an incredible job at creating their own market but then scaling that up.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful, Greg, so exciting to watch. Thank you for joining us on Add to Cart. Really appreciate your time.
Greg Taylor: No worries. I think there was. You did ask me for a discount code, so there is one, dude, believe it or not, it's Add to Cart. So jump on the website and hopefully you'll see what we mean by saying we do make the absolute best pair of underwear in an ethical and sustainable way.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. Add the discount code, add to cart. 20 or one word and you get 20% off total cart. How good is that? Thank you very much.
Greg Taylor: I really appreciate Tom. Nathan, congrats on the business you built. I said that number of times. I think you've done a really good job and podcasting you're doing and also working with your team at E Suite. I can certainly recommend anyone that's looking to find some recruitment or build build out their team. How would they get in touch with you, Nathan?
Nathan Bush: Oh, thank you, mate. I love this reverse.
Greg Taylor: Thank you.
Nathan Bush: No, obviously nathanael.com or nathanadica.com but yeah, love working with teams like yours and it's always fun just seeing how that contributes to the growth of great stories like yours.
Greg Taylor: Perfect. All right, thanks for your time, Nathan. Appreciate it. Thanks, Greg.
Nathan Bush: It really blew me away to know that I've been following Greg's journey for almost 20 years now. Definitely not an overnight success. And I love that Greg is so
[Ad]: open and honest about the journey to
Nathan Bush: get here and he should be truly proud of what he's created so far with Step one despite knowing it for so long. There was so much in that chat
[Ad]: that I didn't know until today.
Nathan Bush: Here are my three biggest takeaways. Number one, don't hack the cac.
Nathan Bush: Yes, I'm going to trademark that.
Nathan Bush: But it's not a new thought. But Greg shows that long term customer lifetime value wins out over constantly trying to acquire new customers. The cac. But don't forget when we are saying long term, step one is only five years old, not 500 years old. It doesn't take that long if you treat customers right to get the lifetime value from them. Committing to making sure that your customers are happy right from the get go is critical. Number two, sweatshop signals.
[Ad]: I don't know about you, but I
Nathan Bush: got a few little gooseies when Greg
[Ad]: told the story of visiting factories and
Nathan Bush: feeling the temperature of seats to know if they are hiding something. And while his tips were fantastic, fantastic to keep in mind when choosing manufacturing partners. I think it's more a lesson around looking out for the signals and the signs around.
[Ad]: You don't always settle for what is
Nathan Bush: shown on the surface. And this leads to our third takeaway. Put your facts where the green is greenwashing. We all know it happens. It shits us all. So let's fight it with facts. Greg is proud to air the end to end ethically accredited production journey with facts. It is what gives his green claims substance at step one. Sure it definitely puts him up for scrutiny and there are always new things and better ways that we can produce. But these are the conversations we should be encouraging, not hiding. Put your facts up.
[Ad]: To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best ecommerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free e Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding the card.
