James Bartle: You've probably got a pair of jeans in your cupboard that are probably worn out or nearly worn out, but you don't want to throw them away because they potentially remind you of so many moments in your life. I think denim's quite unique in that way. I don't think there's any other product in your wardrobe that has the ability to do that. And so using this particular product to try and impact people and educate people is what I would say. It's the ultimate product. I guess in the back of your mind, you always go, wouldn't that be amazing? But you don't believe it would happen, but it happened. And, you know, I reckon the key to making it through is going there is no other option. You know, we have to. We have to find a way. And I always believe there is a way, if you're willing to think about it creatively.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of E commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game. And of course, keep your customers at adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart at ecommerce consultant at 12 high. Now, to be honest with you, I haven't worn jeans in at least six months, but. But I'm very excited to have James Bartle joining us today. James is the CEO and the founder of Outland Denim. They make jeans, but more importantly, are challenging the fashion industry to be more sustainable and ethical. In today's episode, we're going to hear how James went from being a freestyle motocross rider to having Meghan Markle wear his fashion label. We're also going to hear how James got his first retail store deal, how they raised $1.3 million through crowdfunding, and why PR is so important to them. We'll also hear how Liam Neeson changed his life. Confused. All right, let's get into it. Thanks to our partner, Shopify plus and Signet. Here is our episode with Outland Denim CEO and founder, James Bartle. James Bartle, welcome, dad, to Cart.
James Bartle: Thanks so much for having me.
Nathan Bush: Pleasure. Where do you join us from, mate?
James Bartle: I'm in our headquarters on Tambori Mountain, which is in the Gold coast hinterland.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful spot. Now give us a little elevator pitch on Outland Denim. Who are you and what do you stand for?
James Bartle: Yeah, man. Well, we are a denim brand. And we've been working to solve social and environmental issues for the last 10 years. Having only launched our brand four years ago, though, we've been expanding into different regions, the US and Canada, and wanting to move into the UK as well. So we've enjoyed a really great uptake from different regions. But our mission is to be able to help, you know, young ladies that have been trafficked and sold or that are just poor and vulnerable to being exploited in one way or another through giving them employment and education in our manufacturing facilities that we own in Cambodia. And then to also use our brand to educate the world around the realities of the way our clothing is made and the way that your everyday consumer can be a part of changing the outcomes on a social and environmental level of the fashion industry.
Nathan Bush: Right. So most people, if they know of Outland Denim, will know you as a jeans company or fashion label. And it's really interesting the way that you've put that forward as looking at social and environmental issues as the main purpose. Tell us about what were Those years before, 10 years ago, between launching Outland Denim. Four years ago. Between 10 years and four years. What were you doing in that space?
James Bartle: Well, look, man, it was really. I was. I was made aware of the issue of human trafficking through watching a movie. Movie. And, you know, I later had the opportunity to travel with a rescue agency and see what it really looked like on the ground. And actually we landed in Thailand and we jumped in a car and drove up to a place called Pattaya, which I was told was the sex capital of the world. And the rescue agency representative took me there so that I could see, along with some others, just so that we could see the reality of what it's like on the ground for a young lady who's been sold. And to be honest, to begin with, it wasn't that impacting. I mean, it was. It was a little bit dark and dirty, but it wasn't until we got out of the main area into sort of a bit of a dark street that, you know, saw this little girl that was for sale. And when I say a little girl, she would have been, you know, 12 or 13 years old. And it was just a heartbreaking moment. And it was a moment that changed my life forever because I just. I just knew that I couldn't bear the thought of that had been one of my nieces. I had two nieces at the time. I now have two daughters. There's no stop to what I would want to do to be able to rescue her or prevent one of my daughters or my nieces from ending up in a situation like that.
Nathan Bush: How old were you at the time?
James Bartle: Oh man, 10 years ago? 29.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Wow.
James Bartle: Yeah, so it was a pretty, pretty eye opening experience. And I understand that most people haven't necessarily seen something like that with their own eyes, but when you do, you know, you can't turn a blind eye and walk away from it. So, you know, I then traveled into Cambodia and Cambodia was just a little bit poorer of a nation. Just face lots of the same problems. Every country in the world faces these problems and I knew that I wanted to work there. And so from nearly immediately started giving employment to young ladies, working with an NGO there to be able to build a program that we didn't know how we were going to build. And jeans was the thing that I wanted to make because I just, I believe that, you know, they're the ultimate product in everybody's wardrobe. And I was pretty naive going into it. Didn't realize what a competitive market we were coming into. And I didn't realize how difficult jeans were to make either. So if I hadn't known those things back then, maybe, maybe it would be a different story today. But thankfully I was quite naive. And we began this, this process of building a business model that changed their lives. And you know, that took a long time. We're still evolving it and changing all the time, trying to adapt to using better, a better method that really impacts people's lives. But you know, we ended up at the end of that six years with a, with a model that, you know, incorporated four major pillars which was that we'd give opportunity to people that may not get it otherwise. And that means that they could have come from a background of being exploited in one way or another. That may mean that they were trafficked into another country and forced to work in a garment factory or many other situations that they've come from. And then we'll pay them living wages from the moment they come. So that means that that's the minimum is a living wage which often is different to minimum wages in a country where it can mean that, you know, you're still on the poverty line or deeply entrenched within poverty because the amount of the minimum wage equates to. And then we'll train them into making a gen. One of the most difficult products to make. So if you can equip somebody to make a product like this, not just make back pocket like, which is how it works in most manufacturing facilities, is that they will just make an element of A product. But in fact, if we could train them to make an entire product over a two and a half or three year period, then what would that do to their skill set? And how valuable valuable would they be if they were needing to move to another province, let's say, and get a job elsewhere? And then we give them education and we educate them around a range of different things. But, you know, one of the things that excites me the most about this part of the business model is that they might be earning more money than they've earned before. And so by being able to educate them around issues like finance, household budgeting, you know, good and bad debt, you know, those kinds of basic things that we may take for granted that we've learned in growing up in a, in a more wealthy country, then what would the outcomes of that be? And we've been able to measure these things over a period of time and just see that man, if you can, if you can basically, you know, teach a person to fish and they'll never be hungry again kind of idea, then, you know, measuring it over time, we've been able to see that it absolutely works. So giving them the tools they need to be successful themselves, we don't treat them like charity. They're not charity. In fact, you know, they're really smart people. They just need to be given the opportunity. So, you know, that's a, that's a rundown on those six years.
Nathan Bush: And jeans were just the vehicle to achieve those outcomes.
James Bartle: That's right. Jeans are, jeans are the vehicle. And essentially, because I love denim and always have loved denim, you know, I didn't want to have another T shirt company, you know, so I, we chose denim.
Nathan Bush: And did you go over to Asia with denim in mind or did you go over after seeing the movie going, I just need to do something and I just need to get feet on the ground and then I'll work it out.
James Bartle: Yeah, it was, it was, it was really, again, just take it as it comes kind of approach. But I, but denim was definitely, if I was going to make something, it would have been denim for sure. So it was never had to question what I wanted to make. It was more like, okay, does the garment industry make sense? Is that, is that a viable method to be able to challenge this, this issue? And it appeared that it was. I mean, at the time, I think there was, you know, 6 to 700,000 garment workers in Cambodia. I think today there's potentially over a million garment workers there. It's, you know, it's an industry that was growing and one that they were somewhat familiar with. It also meant that, you know, you could have lower skilled positions in and then work up to highly skilled positions as well. So there was progression of skill and which I think is really important, that there's a, I guess some sort of ladder to be able to climb and be rewarded for as well, so that, you know, those who are ambitious can, can continue to develop their skill sets.
Nathan Bush: That's brilliant. And what were you just before we move on, what were you doing before you got on that airplane and went over and said, this is my new mission? Was it something already aligned or is it, was it a total jump for you?
James Bartle: No, total jump for me. I was, well, I met the rescue agency at a festival where I was performing as a freestyle motocross rider. It was a complete shift to go from that to working in this. But look, I always had an interest in people and always really felt a tug of my heartstrings when you'd see those social injustices going on around the world. But, you know, lived in quite a sheltered environment, really. Like I lived in Australia, you know, I'm, I came from a family that supported me in whatever it was that I wanted to do and so I'd always had lots of opportunity and I didn't really know what it was like for the rest of the world other than seeing a Compassion ad come up on, you know, on TV or on your phone. So it was a real opener to go and see it firsthand. And yeah, like I said, it changed everything for me.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. And changed everything for a lot of other people as well. So well done. And so if we take those, those six years of you seeing the movie and can you tell us the name of the movie if you know it offhand?
James Bartle: Yeah. Liam Neeson film Taken.
Nathan Bush: Ah, yeah, of course, yeah. More than ever, the pressure to create an eco friendly unboxing experience is at the forefront of retailers minds. Packaging company Signet has helped a range of leading e commerce retailers such as Mecca, T2, Lush Cosmetics and Ikea transform their ecommerce packaging offerings and provide sustainable packaging solutions that benefit the customers and our planet. Signet proudly supports me and this podcast as well as 60,000 Aussie businesses with their packaging needs. Visit signet.net to find out more. So we've had those, the six years between when you've, you've seen the movie, you've jumped on a plane and then you've partnered up with some other agencies and then you've decided to launch the Outland Denim Brand. Tell us about that decision and how you went about that.
James Bartle: Well, look, it was, the intent was to always have a brand, you know, it was to have, to have a way of being able to create employment for people and then sell it so that that became sustainable and could just grow and grow and grow. You know, launching the Outland denim brand came after those six years of development, but the development also stretched into product development and, you know, marketing and learning. Is there a market and do people care about this? So, I mean, we'd been going to festivals and selling products and, you know, playing, playing little videos of, you know, how it's made and people helps and just really trying to work out, you know, where it sits in market. We believe there was a market though. Keeping in mind four years ago, this wasn't a conversation that was top of mind 10 years ago. Nobody was really that interested, to be perfectly honest. But we believed that if the product spoke for itself and the outcome was that by buying a product, the cherry on top was you've changed someone's life and you've produced a product which is the most sound products you could buy in that category environmentally, then that would just be an add on the product is what people were buying. And so we spent a long time trying to develop that to where we believed our product was good enough to go to market with. We, I guess in all reality it wasn't. We went to market anyhow. You know, I was so eager to get to market. You know, keeping in mind, you know, you've got cash restraints. I was running another business to try and fund this and you know, it was just, it was just getting long in the tooth. You're six years in, you're like, oh man, I don't know, I think, I don't know if we can keep funding it this way. So we need to get to market. See, we can sell some products. You, you bring it to the, you know, your first pop up, which we launched in the middle of summer 2016 in Brisbane. So it's hot and perfect place to sell jeans. Oh man, just. Yeah, it was crazy. I remember some, yeah, all the retailers around just wondering how, why are we crazy enough to try and do this? But look, we did, we managed to sell some products and it was pretty encouraging to see the way people responded to the way they were made. So things had started to change socially or culturally here in Australia in that period of time. But the decision to actually launch the brand had always been there. And we really and still continue to believe that it's through brands, not just ours, it's through collaborative, through brands around the world. They have so much influence over culture. They have a lot of influence over the way people spend their money. And it's really going to come down to that. Is the way people spend their money is the way. Well, it's going to decide the future that we have. And so what greater way to do it than to have a brand that touches people every day? And if you think about it, denim in particular is quite a unique product in the fact that, I mean, think about it for yourself. You've probably got a pair of jeans in your cupboard that are probably worn out or nearly worn out, but you don't want to throw them away because they potentially remind you of so many moments in your life. You know, like a song. You hear a song and it reminds you of this time or that time. And, you know, I think denim is quite unique in that way. I don't think there's any other product in your wardrobe that has the ability to do that. And so using this particular product to try and impact people and educate people is what I would say. It's the ultimate product.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. And I could imagine you went over this in your head a lot, especially with fashion, which can often be fast fashion. Denim is the opposite of that usually, Right?
James Bartle: That's right. Well, I mean, denim's fallen into fast fashion for sure. But, you know, premium products like we are, it certainly holds value. You know, you're paying for it. You're not buying a pair of jeans for $30. You know, you're spending 200 plus for a pair of jeans, but you get a product that's, that's worth that and more. And yeah, like I said, the cherry on top is knowing that you've not been a part of the problem, you've been a part of the solution.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. So tell us about where Outland Denim is now in terms of what channels are you selling through potential team size revenue, if you can give it away, marketing spend. Where's Outland Denim now?
James Bartle: Yeah, look, we've had to grow, we've had to catch up, to be honest. I remember, you know, we launched our brand here in Australia and I, I jumped on a plane to go to a WWD summit in New York and, you know, Ralph Lauren and all these other fashion leaders were speaking there. And I remember jumping on this plane thinking, oh, this is going to be an incredible experience because I'm going to learn all about how the fashion industry is moving in to create product sustainably and help People. And, you know, I left that. I left that summit just so, I guess, frustrated with the industry going, Man, I didn't hear once how anyone was caring about the people within supply chains. All I heard about was which country to go to next because it was the cheapest. And I thought, wow, what a way to go. This. This industry has to go. But I did meet one guy there, and he was a Canadian fashion distributor. And I'll never forget, he. He said, oh, what do you do? And I told him, he said, are these your jeans you're wearing? I said, yep. And he grabbed a handful of the denim and tugged on them and goes, oh, okay, great. Well, just let all your investors know you're about to lose all their money. And I'm like, oh, also very great. I stayed in touch with him for the next six months and eventually invited me to come over to Toronto where their headquarters were. And I landed and threw a few pairs of jeans on his table. And he said, oh, okay, cool. Well, they look like they're nice jeans. I'll take a risk on you, and I'll put you in front of the three best retailers in Canada. And so I'll never forget walking into the first meeting. We walk into the room, and it was like this Devil Wears Prada moment. And these buyers walk into the boardroom and they say, all right, throw your jeans on the table. We'll give you 20 minutes. We'll be back in a minute. And I'm shaking at the knees going, oh, man, like, these guys are never going to look at us. Anyway, an hour and a half later, these. These buyers are there. They're giving us, critiquing the product, helping us how to market it better and committing to buying the product. Went to the next meeting, and we had a very similar reaction. And within an hour of that meeting, we had an email saying, we're going to commit to buying your product. And, you know, he said, In 30 years of business, I've never seen that response. And it was. It was a direct result of the industry is changing. The market was moving. We're going into a place where buyers the best. And I'm talking about some of the best retailers in the world, Harry Rosens and Holt Renfrew. So for Canada, they're the top tier department stores. You know, they knew that they needed to be looking for sustainability, but they also want to have impact themselves as retailers. And so it was a real eye opener. He then became one of my biggest investors after that day and took us into Canada. So we were Starting to grow and, you know, trying to keep up with, bringing up quality and, you know, being able to produce on time and deliver on time. Keeping in mind that, yeah, we're. We're a fashion brand, but we're also a manufacturer. So this whole time we're building two businesses, not one. And we had no longer signed with David Jones to be delivering to them here in Australia. And Meghan Markle steps off an airplane here in Australia on a royal tour wearing our jeans. And I'd only just landed in Cambodia, you know, the night before. And so I woke up to my phone going mantle with people trying to get in touch, you know, media. Like, it was just crazy because.
Nathan Bush: So that wasn't set up at all. That was legitimate. Megan Marle just picked them up and just wore them.
James Bartle: She was introduced to them by her. One of her best friends and who. Who helped with some styling that she did, and she came across it in Canada and. Yeah, and. And then, you know, I think every brand would have a bit of a hope that Megan Mark, because she's got a. Traditionally she does that like she was going somewhere. She was wearing local products and supporting local. So I guess in the back of your mind you always go, wouldn't that be amazing? But you don't believe what would happen. But it happened. And she continued to wear them over the period of time. I think she wore them six or seven times. She's continued to wear them since. But what that did was that that accelerated our growth. We had amazing sales until that product sold out. And there's a little bit of overflow, but not heaps into other products. But it exposed us to the world and it demonstrated that with growth, we were able to achieve our social outcomes that we were striving to create and achieve. And so I guess that next period of growth for us is what became really challenging. We went from already probably running pretty fast to keep up with what was happening. From a manufacturing level, it was challenging. But then for this to happen, and you have got retailers all over the world, I mean, we're getting phone calls from the best retailers all over the world, and we haven't been able to deliver on some of this because, honestly, we're at production capacity and we nearly fell over is the reality of that. So we came into really tough financial times because we're growing too fast. We're spending on trying to keep up with that growth, making mistakes along the way and producing our products, not being able to get the quality there. So high QC fails. But at the same time, Trying to still innovate and find better ways of producing. You know, we set our business up to do exactly that. We set our business up to solve social and environmental wrongs that were happening within the fashion industry. So. And from outside the industry as well. So you're investing into these things, you're cash strapped and you've got these amazing opportunities that at the time you believe won't ever come again. And so you have to do it. You know, there's. I can't say no. I have to. And you'll start starting to see culture slip away. And you have to then come back and take a really hard look at what you're doing and go, hey, what are the things that are important? Pull back on the things that aren't important or unimportant yet and refocus. And so we did that and we started to see growth again. We focused on the areas of business that were suffering with great production manager, great designers. And as we implemented those things, we started to see that we were getting better conversion rates, we were getting better sales, and to the point now where our sales every month outweigh the sales we had the one month when Megan Markle wore our product. So that's a real. We've had, you know, really amazing results. But we're also a growing brand. Who's. We are. We are here to grow. We don't want to be a small brand. We want to be a big brand. The bigger we become, the more product we sell, the more people we help and the more outcomes we find for solving these environments. So we find ourselves in a position now where we've got in house marketing. We're spending more and more on marketing, digital marketing, I mean, Covid hit and we knew we had to spend. If we want to stay in the game, we've got to spend. We've got a limited amount of cash and cash flow is going to become harder and tighter. But we put a head of digital on and my gosh, we've seen huge results from having somebody, an expert focus on the digital side of our sales growth. Before that were focused very much on the traditional model and like online sales were there and it was great. But I'm a believer in the whole system. So bricks and mortar, I believe is a really important part of our community and therefore wanted to support them. So focused on that being our strategy. Thank goodness. Now our online has gotten stronger as that part of our business has suffered. So, you know, we've found ourselves, I think, in a reasonably strong position, but needing to Be adaptable and be willing to move and change quite quickly at the moment with the current environment.
Nathan Bush: When those times do get tough, when cash flow is an issue and you've got a whole bunch of opportunity in there that you can't meet or that you've got high QC fails, how hard is it not to take a shortcut?
James Bartle: Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, that's really, really tough. Yeah. I mean, look, I can tell you stories of these opportunities that present themselves to. It could be just produce and do some washing for another brand, but to be able to do the washing for the other brand, it'd be lucrative. But we have to stick to their recipes and they're not willing to change to use our recipes, which means that we're going to be using chemicals that just shouldn't be used. And, you know, you go at the time. Yeah, but if we do this, we stay in the game. Look, we've chosen to be really rigid on that. We haven't given into it. It's been tempting, I got to tell you, it's been so tempting to take some shortcuts like that. But we've made it through. And, you know, I reckon the key to making it through is going there is no other option. You know, we have to, we have to find a way. And I always believe there is a way. If you're willing to think about it creatively and think outside the square and go, well, you know, maybe you've got to go back to the market and raise more capital. And look, I've raised capital, I've gone back and raised a number of times to be able to get to where we believe that we can meet this growth. I mean, we've got two factories in Cambodia now. We're in, we're only, you know, four years into this actual brand and we've got these amazing things behind the state of the art factories, you know, so although we're small, we've got the best technology integrated into our systems. It means that we can deliver on, I guess, aligning with the morals that our customers have or the values that they have themselves.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, and it probably helps too that you started with your mission. Those six years where you're working out your mission, how you deliver your mission, rather than starting out as a jeans company. Exactly. A lot of those decisions. Right?
James Bartle: Absolutely. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: So when it comes to online and E commerce, speaking to you, I can really get a sense of the story and the passion and the authenticity behind it. When it comes to online, it's a bit harder to get that story. Across, especially for a new visitor. Right. How do you approach that from a digital perspective in getting the story but also making the sales?
James Bartle: That's really difficult. That was quite a steep learning curve that we had to go through there where we were learning about how to market a product to a customer. And it comes down to the neuroscience behind it, to be honest. It's what chemicals are pumping in that, in that customer's brain at the time when they're watching what you're doing. And so what we were doing is we were presenting them with this story of this person who made their product, who was exploited. And you know, they're sitting there going through this process of going, this is terrible. I want to support, like what do I do? And they then go to buy this gene and now all of a sudden they're thinking about, does my ass look good in this gene? And you've got these two different chemicals battling each other. And so what happens is you get this high drop off rate. They want to support, they want to be a part of this. But when it goes to thinking about my ass and those genes, I don't know how to, and I'll come back later kind of thing. And, and, and so we went from
Nathan Bush: that jeans shopping's hard at the like in physical retail. That jean shopping is like one of the hardest things to do, right?
James Bartle: It is really difficult. So I guess it's finding those pain points for your customer that your customer has and then how do you eliminate those things? And so what we did is we dropped the story down later. When they come to our page, they see beautiful products, they see imagery and it's aspirational. And then they've gone through that process and then they may get the product home. They may not have even come across our story. They get the product home and they open them up one day and they see printed on the inside as a thank you from one of the seamstresses. We've had many accounts of customers that have bought our product not realizing the way that were made. And you know, I guess the that is, that is like solidifying this loyalty from a customer going, oh my gosh, I can't buy another product now. You know, which is what we want. You know, if they love the product, we don't want people buying our product because it's a charity. We would have set up charity if we wanted to do that. We want you to buy our product if you love it. And so the product has to speak for itself. So communicating that story, we've relied really heavily on a PR strategy for that. We've been so, so grateful to the media because they have honestly backed us in such a big way. I hear so many negative things about the media, but my experience for our brand is that the media have absolutely supported it. And so people are reading about it in the newspaper and then they're coming to our website at another time or maybe after that and they're now, that's the dopamine that's pumping through their brain and they're looking at these products. It's aspirational and therefore we get a much higher conversion rate than we've had in the past. That's continuing to rise and increase as we learn to tell the product story much clearer and the impact that, that that product is having much clearer. Without going into the nitty gritty of the dark side of what happened within the fashion industry, it's a really good
Nathan Bush: tip, hey, not to try and blend the product and the story all together for one beautiful kind of hitting point. It's like know where people are at at the right time and the right, at the right place and tell that story there and then don't think it's your only chance that you're going to get.
James Bartle: I think we had a consultant come in and explain it to me like this. It made so much sense. He said you go out on the first date and on the first date you wouldn't go and empty out all the darkest secrets, all the hard hitting your life, would you? You'd wait until maybe even the fifth day before you started doing those things. And he said a sales funnel is the same thing at the top of the sales funnel. It's got to be light, it's got to be just spiking their interest. Am I interested to come back a second time? And over a period of a range of different touch points for every different person, you get to where you can hit them with the hard hitting story. And you know, they may have already been, I really like this product. I'm not sure. And the thing that tips them over the edges, oh my gosh, this aligns with my values. I found my new denim brand and then they purchase. There's also things like obviously needing to offer free shipping, free returns. I mean, you know, that's, that's hard to carry sometimes because you know, people do buy. I mean there's lots of marketplaces that have established the culture of you buy it just to try it and you know you're going to get a full refund. It's going to cost you nothing just to bring it home and try it. Which is great because people can, especially today, that's really important. But it's a, it's a high expense to the business. And I think if you're not going to do that, you know, I think it's just a general expectation that's had by most consumers today is it's, it shouldn't cost me for shipping.
Nathan Bush: Has there been parts of that process, whether it is shipping or otherwise, that you've actually found harder to do sustainably than you thought it would be?
James Bartle: No, look, I think shipping's, look, there's so many great options for packaging today. So biodegradable bags, you know, we, you know, we've used cardboard as well, recycled cardboard. So we're always just looking for, you know, eco friendly dyeing processes and biodegradable materials that we use for packaging. And then, you know, there's carbon offsetting. I think it's really important to, you know, when we read about carbon neutral companies, we need to remember that that's an offset, that's not a, they actually aren't carbon neutral, they're just paying to offset it, which is great as well. But you know, that's where we found that we can align with different careers and systems to be able to get the best outcome that exists today. But look, in all reality, every industry has a long way to go in that, in that space of ticking all those boxes that it meets shipping. Let's talk about shipping. So we make it in Cambodia and then we ship it around the world. The challenges that's facing the shipping industry and in transport of those parts of everybody's supply chain is really difficult to track. And so there's a big space there that we need to be able to address and say that no one was exploited in this part of the process, which is where our brand comes from. Just, I guess saying that, you know, zero exploitation is a hashtag that we come back to. And what it means is that we, we are committed to trying to find a solution that nobody or no thing is exploited in the process of making, transporting, selling and wearing this product. So, you know, there's still a long way to go. No one can claim they've got it yet. I don't think I was about to
Nathan Bush: say that's a big long journey. Right. To make sure everyone along that journey is not impacted. Yeah, Might just turn it back to E commerce for a second there. And in terms of COVID we've seen a few trends which I imagine would impact you around the stay at home trend and increase in online shopping. How's Covid impacted you guys?
James Bartle: Yeah, look, it's been incredible from an online shopping perspective. I mean, we've seen an absolute growth. We can see, you know, from April forward that we've. We spike. I did a lot of things, like I said, I employed a head of digital. So we started advertising and doing a lot more in the digital space. Beyond that, you know, we've seen a range of different trends. Obviously, you know, loungewear has become a really important thing. It's not something that we were able to partake in, really, because we're selling denim, black skinny jeans. Massive decline in the sale of black skinnies because nobody's going out wanting to put those on Friday night, you know, so the products that are selling it have changed into those more relaxed fits that people are wearing at home. But we do see increased spending online. And honestly, it blows me away. I don't know why people are buying jeans to be at home. I mean, look, I personally wear jeans nearly 365 days a year, but I figure I'm unique in that way, but it appears I'm not. There's a lot of people that are wearing jeans every day. So we're still making really solid sales. But we also realize that we need to pivot. We need to, and I hate using that word, slipped out. We needed to adapt and change. And so we hired a new designer right at the beginning of this as well, to be able to address some of those other categories. And so you're going to see over the next couple of months from us that you're going to see dresses and tees and hoodies and a range of different things starting to drop into our collections because we need to address what people are wanting now. We need to be able to adapt quickly. Should there be another spike or should this be just the new normal for the next 12 or 24 months?
Nathan Bush: That's what I was going to ask you. Do you think it is the new normal? How hard do you go towards that shift? And, you know, take your example away from black skinnies to that more casual wear, how hard do you go at that? Not knowing if this is forever?
James Bartle: I think for us, I mean, I can only speak for us. I think that it's a really important thing to move in that direction. We always wanted to. We've probably had to do it faster than we would have liked. But those growing, they're just growing pains. And this is really. Covid has really just incentivized everybody to Move faster and the end result will be good. The end result will be that we've got a much broader collection. Speaking to more categories, let's think about a, you know, 230 Australian dollar pair of jeans. Not everybody can afford that, or not everybody wants to spend that on a pair of jeans. But if we are selling T shirts and it gives them the opportunity to be able to be a part of what we're doing. And so that's really been part of our strategy is to, I guess address all those other categories. Not just categories, all those other demographics of people that would like to be a part of creating change but haven't been able to yet.
Nathan Bush: When Tamburlain Organic Wines were looking to push their expansion nationally and internationally, they realized that their custom built POS focused platform just wasn't going to cut it. They selected Shopify plus as the foundation for their expansion. Plus allowed Tamburlaine to create tiered member pricing using scripts, introduce web chat and see customer churn analytics. The result, 30% conversion rate boost within the first six weeks of migration. Now that's something to cheers to. To read more of Tamburlaine's story and see other case studies, visit the customer section on shopify.com auplus. You're an international business, I think it's fair to say, but based out of Mount Tambourine, which was I would assume, fairly shielded from COVID did it feel weird having all this going on around and impacting your whole supply chain and your customer, but still being based out of beautiful Mount Tambourine, man, this is
James Bartle: the place to be. Honestly. Tambourine Mountain, I reckon is like the greatest hill in, in Australia. Like you've got either direction. You want to go north, you want an airport an hour away, you want to go south, you're on airport an hour away. Yeah, man. Like the world's like breaking down around us. And we're up here on Tambourine Mountain in like the beautiful fresh air and like I'm speaking to people on the phone outside my office doors and they can hear the kookaburras in the tree. And you look, we set up here because we want that. We don't want to be in one of the fashion hubs. I didn't want to be in Byron, I don't want to be in Melbourne. I don't want to be in Paris or New York. I want to be here because what it does is it allows us to be able to think very independently about the industry and the issues that we face. And then Come up with solutions. When you're paired with the industry too closely, it's often really difficult to think about solutions because the old way is so ingrained and it can easily rub off on, on you as well. So, you know, they say who you hang around, who you become, and I don't want to become like the fashion industry. I think it's pretty appalling what it's become today and our future needs to look different. And so Tambori Mountain is the ultimate place to set up fashion brands. So all those young emerging brands, this is the place to be beautiful.
Nathan Bush: There's your call out. Any downsides?
James Bartle: Yeah, logistics. It can take an extra day on a, on a. Shipping it out, but to be honest, outside that. And our staff come from Brisbane, Gold coast, there's a couple of local as well. Yeah, they've got to drive an hour to work an hour back, but they're not driving and peak out traffic. They're driving against the traffic. And yeah, they're driving up into, you know, a beautiful area where. And you know, look, our, our little community here is really developing. It's cool. There's a lot of young, younger people moving into the area and I think, you know, people are getting over those metropolitan areas and moving, moving out a little bit, you know, within 45 minutes, you're, you can go for a surf, you know, like, it's a, it's a great, it's a great place to be.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's awesome. Brilliant that you're living, living a lot of dreams there.
James Bartle: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Tell us about. You touched on it before and your crowdsourcing investment campaign this year, which got a lot of pr and I even got in there for a little bit of the action, which is so great to be involved in a brand like yours. Tell us about. Well, that's right. This isn't a paid podcast, by the way. Tell us about how that idea came about and what that involved because it was pretty unique.
James Bartle: Yeah, man. Like, look, I've, I've gone and raised private equity prior to this, and I got some really good strategic investors on board with great experiences across a range of different areas that we need. So that was, that was really good and I think important for the foundations of who we were and what we wanted to establish. But we've always seen our brand as something that benefits as many people as possible. And so, you know, we're talking the fashion industry. One in six people in the globe work within it. So you go, well, this is a great industry to use to be able to Create social change. But what about expanding that? You know, like how do we benefit more people? You know, we're an Australian brand. We see a lot of amazing people, people in our community and from around Australia and globally that have been supporting us for the, you know, for the 10 years. I mean there's an amazing local couple whom have been watching, supporting, encouraging us since the very first day we started this thing became investors and you know, coming in and they're buying our product and you just think isn't that cool that that they're now owners of this thing that they've been watching develop for 10 years. That's the reason, you know, we want, I would say that crowd sourced investors or equity investors like this are the new impact investors. So impact investing in Australia is not that sophisticated. Probably a little bit behind, hasn't maybe learned some of the different methodologies used in valuating companies and whether that be impact or valuations or whatever it is that has been learned in other regions like US and UK and so what's happening now though, the fact that it's legal here in Australia as of, you know, 12, 18 months ago to be able to do this kind of equity raise is that you've got all these people that have these values that want to, that want to be a part of it, but might have a million dollars that can put in, but might have, you know, a thousand dollars or $10,000 that they can throw at something like this and this gives them this opportunity. So you know, we say we're, we're the people's brand, we want to be a brand that impact many people as possible. And this kind of equity raise speaks to who we are as a brand. And I, I've wanted to do it long before we, it was legal to do it in Australia. So when it became legal and we knew we wanted to raise, this just made too much sense.
Nathan Bush: And you did it through. Is it virtual that you did it through?
James Bartle: Yeah. Great platform, really professional and you know, I highly recommend this kind of capital raise to, to anyone that's out there, especially startups.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. And can you tell us what you can about the results of that? How many investors and what you raised?
James Bartle: Yeah, we brought in over a thousand investors. We raised about 1.3 million. Covid had just presented itself in a big way to Australia and the advice was probably hey, postpone the raise. But we just felt we wanted to keep going, we wanted to push on anyway. And look, the results speak for themselves. To be able to raised $1.3 million, we were the fastest company that had been on the platform to hit our minimum target, you know, and I think it all speaks to the fact that, you know, the, the community's been primed for a number of years now to want, to want solutions to these things that we have found some solutions to and, and therefore they're ready to put their money where their mouth is, you know, and we did a survey of our investors and I think it was 83% of our investors invested because of the social impact that the brand could have. And when you put that with the ability to be able to grow your investment portfolio, to be able to own shares in the company and benefit in that way as well, it just makes too much sense. And again, if business can be the solution to these problems where people aren't having to sacrifice anything, they're just buying products and the outcome of that is that you leave the people and planet in a better position, then that's a no brainer. And I think that's what our brand presented to our new investors.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I remember when that was all coming out and Covid hit at the time and you'd already lined up investor sessions in most capital cities and you were going to talk them through and I was really pumped about being able to go there and see what you guys are up to and hear more. And then it all went virtual and it was, it was still great but I could just see and I was like, I hope this doesn't derail it. And to see the outcome of it at the end was fantastic.
James Bartle: Yeah, look, I'll never forget the first meeting that we ran. It was in my local community and you're always nervous because, you know, like at home it's always harder to get things across the line than it is elsewhere. And I thought, man, no one's even going to come to this thing. We set up at a winery and, and it was freezing cold and it was howling wind and rain and I'm like, ah, this isn't going to work. But we were having to find new chairs, like we filled the building and we had to find places for people to sit and it was amazing. And that just demonstrated to me, you know, how much support we have in our community and how important community is in establishing anything, you know. So I think going from that first meeting into the other meetings and having to go virtual was a bit of a, bit of a nerve wracking thing. We did live webinars and, and these things where we had like a broadcaster come in and film and do it all properly. And you know, you imagine what could go wrong. It went wrong. Batteries on, cameras going flat and like I couldn't get the tech up. People are waiting like 20 minutes to join the webinar.
Nathan Bush: But I do remember that.
James Bartle: Oh man, it was just horrid. And I'm like so nervous because yeah, just having to do it all live but, but look, it will work. We got. People weren't investing because of the presentation. People are investing because the line for their values. And, and that's what excites me so much. And I would say this, you know, to anybody who's got a particularly a product based business that is available online, this kind of capital raise is better than any other. Going to a VC and bringing in those guys, yeah, sure, this benefit, but man, like one, like I was warned, you know, VC will be amazing until you're bleeding and then they're like a shark. So be really careful with that. But going down this road, you're bringing like minded people in who become your customers. We now track, you know, the impact of those sales and they're coming from our investors. So basically we've got another thousand people now that are customers loyal, lifetime, probably customers because they're actually owners of this business.
Nathan Bush: And I think too what you're also doing is you're playing an educational role in sustainability and social responsibility for those people. Like the packs that Sally sends every month, you give your investors a monthly update with a pack and there are some sales data in there, but it's mostly around the impact that you're making to other people's lives. And because you're expressing that from your manufacturing through to your whole supply chain, there's so much in there that I'm learning about how the whole fashion industry needs to address sustainability and the questions to ask.
James Bartle: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And that's what we see. Part of, you know, the function of our brand is to be able to help educate people around the realities. Because it's not until we all have an understanding of the realities and then the ways each product is made that we can actually make a difference. So we believe it's a bit unfair on consumers today because there's so much greenwashing and manipulation by companies out there saying what they are doing, but not saying what they're not doing. And therefore customers don't really know who or what to support. And we would like to be able to educate people to know what questions to ask.
Nathan Bush: Yep, makes sense. So what's next for Outland Denim? I can imagine there's A few things, man, it's.
James Bartle: There's so much work, consistently working on things to solve problems within our industry. But you know, we started manufacturing for an amazing brand called Karen Walker. We did a collaboration with that brand last year. This year we produced our first run for them, which we delivered on time, high quality product which was a huge milestone for us to prove that we could produce for a brand as elevated as this one. So that was really exciting. We've got a list of brands that would like to manufacture with us which we need to scale because we're booked out all the vacant production spaces to producing for brands producing for Outland Denim. But we've also launched Maker standard. Maker Standard is basically the standard that we produce to for Outland Denim. So it means that the social, environmental and economic outcomes of that product meet the what the Outland Denim standard has become known for. And we're launching a blank T program. So we go, hey, there's lots of sporting clubs, there's lots of brands, restaurants, you know, companies that would love to be a part of this. How can we address that in an easy way for them? Well, making blank tees that is certified with this Maker Standard certification that they can put their own branding into or onto is a really easy way. We're pretty competitive on price. We're going to be bringing those in and as of next year you're going to be able to buy those off the shelf where you can buy blanks and have this standard and basically benefit from the impact that we have as a brand and you can take that to your customer who's buying your shirts. It could be just another brand. We honestly just want to collaborate and partner with as many like minded organizations as possible to further the impact.
Nathan Bush: That's amazing. So packaging up 10 years worth of blood, sweat, tears in, how to make these, these, these products are sustainable and socially responsible as possible and offering other brands and other people.
James Bartle: Absolutely, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Do you see that? Do you see that side of the business being bigger than Outland Denim moving forward?
James Bartle: Yeah, manufacturing is huge. You know, there's such a great opportunity there to manufacture because it's just not as simple as going as a brand. Hey, I want to do things the right way because where do you go to have that done? You know, it's, it's challenging. So we believe that it's through utilizing the power other brands have that we're going to have a much greater impact. But we don't produce for any brands that are competing with Outland Denim. You know, this needs to be Commercially viable. And so therefore I've been approached with brands that sell denim in the same categories as us at the same price points as us, and I've just said no.
Nathan Bush: So, yep, it comes back to, it comes back to knowing what the mission is first, right?
James Bartle: Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: Now, how can, if people have been inspired by this story, and I can guarantee they will have been, how can people get in touch with you, James?
James Bartle: Yeah, look, I mean, go online, Instagram, Facebook, anywhere, contact us. You know, that will make its way back into the team and filtered into the right people. You know, we're, we're really keen to engage with, with our community, those who follow and support, those who don't. Just have a question, you know, we, we want to be a part of the greater change, so feel free to reach out to us. You know, we want to engage with you and you know, our products are online for sale. There's no risk in buying them. Send them back if you don't like them. We only want you to keep them. If you love them, we give a full refund. We don't charge for shipping. Yeah, that's pretty much it, man.
Nathan Bush: Win, win, win.
James Bartle: And we'd say even if you're in an area that stocks our product, go to the retailer first. Go in and buy in store if you can. You know, I believe that the retailers that sell our products are so vital to creating change. They're the best educators and their little businesses need support. Those little boutiques need support. Even our big department store retailers, they need your support. Our economy relies upon retail as well, and going direct is great for margin, but it's not for the long, the long term outcomes that our country needs. So support your retailer.
Nathan Bush: Good message. Thank you. James Bartle, thank you very much for sharing your story. We're loving what you're doing and just amazing to see you keep pushing forward with your mission and all the people that you help in the way you change the world. So thank you for doing that and thank you for sharing with us today.
James Bartle: Nathan, thanks so much. Really appreciate the opportunity to come on your podcast.
Nathan Bush: James and the Outland Denim brand have a strong vision and a steadfast mission, but they don't keep it to themselves. Everything they do is about taking others on that journey with them, whether that be their team, their customers, their investors, their retailers, their industry, and even their little community at Tambourine Mountain. They want to take everyone on this ride with them. I thought it was really interesting that James had a special shout out in this episode. Episode around the media and how PR is an amazing source of customer awareness and acquisition for them. If you just Google Outland Denim under Google News, you will see all the stories about them and that obviously doesn't come without effort and relationships. When interviewing guests for this podcast, I always check Google News for what they've been up to. Sometimes I find a few stories, often I find crickets. I don't know why, but maybe because in a world of social media and influencers, PR is seen as old school. But I definitely think it's an opportunity for brands with something special to say. If you're looking for more e commerce news, case studies and research, sign up to 12High's High5 newsletter. Every week I read all the e commerce news and send you five things which I've found which will help grow your business. Visit 12 High. To sign up for free. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep adding to cartoon.
