Michael Tutek: My old man is a bricklayer and legit. Real story. He used to throw water on me in the morning to help wake me up at lakes. And I just thought, you know what? I can't do this. I've always loved psychology, I've always loved tech and I've always loved sales. We just gotta keep in mind all your customers are human beings, you know, they always will be human beings.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast
Michael Tutek: that Express delivers all you need to
[Voiceover]: know in the fast moving world of E commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will
Michael Tutek: share the news, research and insights that
[Voiceover]: you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart. Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at E commerce talent agency E Suite. Can you remember some of the best ideas that you had as a 15 year old? Most of mine included push bikes, Goldeneye 64 and service station Slurpees. I'd like to say sex, drugs and alcohol, but let's be honest, I was never that cool. Today's guest actually had the idea for his business today when he was a 15 year old on the retail floor selling televisions at the Good Guys. He held onto that idea and it is now known as Prezi, a guided conversion and discovery platform for online retailers. Michael Tutek is the founder and the CEO of Preezy. In today's chat he tells us the story from how his idea as a 15 year old turned into a solution used by established retailers including Baby Bunting, Lorna Jane, Luxury Escapes, Bevels and Blue Bungalow. He also shares why they have a psychologist on the board who recommended slowing down the experience for customers in order to increase the conversion rate. And why he thinks the death of third party cookies will actually help real personalization. So, thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Signet, here's our conversation with Michael Tutek from Preezy. Michael2Tech. Welcome to Add to Cart.
Michael Tutek: Lovely to touch base, Nathan. Thanks for having me, mate.
[Voiceover]: Last time we saw each other was in Melbourne in February last year. We had coffee at the hotel where I think it was online retail was before the lockdown kicked in. You're back in lockdown now?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, until 11:59 tonight.
[Voiceover]: Oh my goodness.
Michael Tutek: They tell me.
[Voiceover]: What does the last few hours of lockdown look like to you?
Michael Tutek: Can't even tell a difference. I'm just working.
[Voiceover]: All right, well, let us in on the secret. What are you working on? What do you do?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah, sure. So effectively, Preezy is a Melbourne based software as a service startup based around e commerce, retail, tech. And what we're all about is, well, we have a belief system that's all about believing that you can bring that in store experience online. So effectively what we do is we provide businesses the tools and the education they need to bring that in store experience online. That's our guiding light, that's our North Star to just bring that in store experience online.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. And how do you do it?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, sure. So the best way to think about it is an example. So I'll just use one of our example, one of our clients, Lorna Jane. So normally you'd walk into a Lorna Jane store and if you know exactly what you want, you walk up to the rack, you pick it up, you know, you check out your phone. If you need a little bit of help or you don't really know your size or you're not familiar with their range, you'd speak to a sales assistant and they would say, hey, what are you using it for? Is there anything that's important to you? Do you want something like the phone pockets, is there any specific material, is there any concerns, et cetera? So you can imagine in store, that's pretty easy. They can go, okay, based on everything you want. We suggest you look at this one, two or three leggings. But online, like, that's really hard. Obviously there are filters, but filters are the status quo. No one uses them, especially on mobile. And even then, half the time they don't work. And they can't include like sophisticated rules. Like, you know, I said I wanted, you know, Navy, but hey, we don't have navy. But black is the next best. They can't do any of that. So effectively, that's what we do. You integrate and you plug in our software onto your website and we call them workflows, but I guess simplify them quizzes. And you plug these workflows onto the website and they ask those questions and it uses all the smarts in the back end to recommend products. So literally just like a sales assistant would do in store, but only online.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. And how'd you come up with the idea?
Michael Tutek: All right, so the story goes, believe it or not, I was working at like 12, 13 years old. My old man is a bricklayer and legit, real story, he used to throw water on me in the morning to help wake me up. And I just thought, you know what? I just thought, I can't do this. This old school Croatian mentality. So I said, you know what? 14 years, 9 months old, legally allowed to. I got a job with the good guys, like sweeping the floors because I'm like, you know, this means that Tata doesn't wake me up in the morning with water. So I got that job and I was pretty tall for my age. So the owner Greg said, hey, did you want to get sales experience? And I thought, yeah, okay, why not? And I've always loved psychology. I've always loved tech and I've always loved sales. And on the sales floor it was really interesting because I was in a meeting one day and they were talking about the in store conversion and they'll saying, hey, you know, last year, last month our in store conversion was 30%, 40%. Hundred people walk in, 40 walk out with the product. And then I remember reading about their online and at the time their online was like 0.7. This is going back many, many years. And I thought like, what's the difference? Like, you know, what is the fundamental difference? Like you're not, you're not getting a fridge and putting it in the back of your car now. So it's not getting a now. Delivery services are so quick. It's not really about having it today. So I really did a lot of research and effectively found like the biggest difference was that sales assistant. You can call it online personalization, but in reality it was just walking in, talking to a sales assistant, helping them help you navigate the range and feeling confident to buy. Hey, I've sold X of these or you know, this is perfect for you because of X, Y and Z. And I just thought like, why doesn't anyone do this online? Like it was just, it just baffled me. And I mean I'm talking, I'm like 16, 17 years old now and I just thought like this is going back then, like I must do this one day anyway. So I effectively just started kind of playing with the idea kind of 10 years ago. But you know, I was in uni, so I finished uni, I became an engineer, saved up every penny I could and then eventually just launched the concept and just said I want to do this idea that I kind of thought about many, many years ago to bring that in store experience online.
[Voiceover]: So tell me about that gap between you've graduated uni as an engineer. What type of engineer?
Michael Tutek: Electrical and electronic. So like mainly doing power systems or like microprocessors. Unfortunately not software. Looking back, I should have done software engineering, but hey, I was a bit old school. I did power engineering.
[Voiceover]: Well, it's better than bricklaying.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, it beats bricklaying for sure.
[Voiceover]: So then did you work as an engineer before starting up Prezi?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, I was an engineer and I worked mainly with like the utilities like SP Oznet Electronet delivering power and power protection systems. Then did that for a little bit and then from there I moved into like basically business development. So I got another job at another company doing like business development, being a sales guy. And then from there I just, you know, saved up everything I could to tip money into this. Lived with mum and dad, saved everything I could and you know, so it
[Voiceover]: didn't stop worrying in the background even as you were going through uni and you got out of uni as an engineer.
Michael Tutek: Nah, nah. I've actually got like this book just for memory sake that's like, I reckon it would be like 10 centimeters thick of just all these initial wireframes, all these initial concepts. How do you get an algorithm to work like this that's completely platform agnostic? That's like vertical agnostic. I was doing it all in the background. So then when the time came to actually do it it was like my scoping document was like 70 pages long and pretty decent. I got there in the end and
[Voiceover]: the name Preezy P R E E Z I E for anyone googling along at home. Where did that come from?
Michael Tutek: It's, it's pretty, pretty simple. Back then or even now, the idea was to you know, make products easy. So products made easy. Freezy, beautiful. Nothing more to it than that.
[Voiceover]: Didn't take 10cm of workbooks to work that one.
Michael Tutek: No, that one was easy. That one was easy. Foreign.
[Voiceover]: Has been helping Australians lose weight since 1983. But did you know that until recently the website purely served to support customers, visit a physical store or call a consultant. Luckily, Jenny Craig partnered with Shopify plus to launch their new online ordering system. This includes a drag and drop meal plan, HubSpot CRM integration and time based delivery options for all that cold stuff. They've already achieved a 2.5% conversion rate without any marketing and are now looking to stack on the pounds. I mean dollars. To read more of Jenny Craig's story and see other case studies, visit the customer section on shopify.com au PL. So you've got this idea, you've had your experience on the floor in retail which has set you up really well to kind of test this idea. Where do you start?
Michael Tutek: Initially we actually, believe it or not, we started as like a B2C model. So the initial first thing I Did was create like an I select for like appliances because that's where it came from. Yeah. So we built this website that had all these guided conversion workflows and funnels and we had like affiliate programs with like appliances online and Kogan and all this. And then we met with a really, like a bunch of really smart entrepreneurs. And I also met my co founder Quok and we kind of said like, this is hard work. Like being a B2C tip 10 grand into Google Ads. You know, some people convert, get a small fee. And it wasn't to the core of what I wanted to do. Like it was a marketing business. So we basically said, you know what, we've got this website that's got some smarts. A few retailers even then said, oh, you know, if you ever build this, like I would buy it. But just this guided conversion part, this guided workflows, these quizzes, and I thought, you know what, let's do it. So we built like an mvp, spoke to a few customers. I remember trying to sell to customers with like video demos, you know, like just build a video. Don't even have a real software. So yeah, we just kind of scoped it. So the channel was really a B2C iselect for appliances who morphed into a software as a service to provide that to retailers.
[Voiceover]: Awesome, awesome. And was there a conversation in those early stages that got you really excited that went, there's something really in this.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah. Cause to be completely straight, like me, myself, Kwok, you know, we're not heavy hitters. We're not, you know, catch. So you know, it was hard getting like people to talk to us. But the thing was, the thing that we found interesting is the few people like ex entrepreneurs and even retailers that gave us time, they were all like, not one of them dismissed the idea. They've all gone, hey, like I get it, this makes sense. I would definitely look at at least trialing this or giving it a shot. And we just thought like, you know, you know, we're tough cookies. You have to be to run a startup. And real, real advice and real feedback. If something's rubbish, like shit, just let us know. Fine, great. Otherwise I'm never going to learn and get better. But I think we're getting, in my opinion, really honest feedback. But it was all relatively positive. So we got kind of pumped because when you talk to 10 or 15 people and 14 or 13 of them go like, this is actually great. You could be onto something. And I can't find anything similar that got us pretty Pumped. And that's when we just went like, you know, Kwok, our, the other co founder of Preezy, he actually tipped in some money. We built the software and we just went. That's when we actually quit our jobs, went in at full time. Not a single customer, not a single dollar of revenue. So we were pretty excited at that point.
[Voiceover]: That's awesome. And things have obviously changed a lot for you. Now looking at some of your clients that you've got listed on the website, you've got people like Luxury Escapes, Lorna Jane, who you mentioned before, Bevels Jewelry, Blue Bungalow, some really good heavy hitters and people who know their stuff in retail and E commerce. Can you give us some example, talk us through from a customer perspective, the best use case that you've seen from one of your clients in personalizing that journey.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, so I mean there's a few. I'll give you a few use cases, a few other examples as well. So we're working with both Baby Bunting and Guitar center in America. So I'll go Guitar center in America. I mean these guys have like 600 stores. They're huge online. I think they're the second biggest music retailer on the planet. So the way to think about it is if you've got a product even like Bevels Jewelry with jewelry, Baby Bunting, car seats, Sauna Jane with functional clothing. If you've got a product that requires like some consideration, that's a really great use case. So I'll give you another example. One of our customers, Nick's Wines. Yeah. Now if you look at a bottle of wine and I actually approached Nick's because I went to my mom's house and I'm not a connoisseur of wine. Like I like it. Yeah. Who doesn't like wine? But I don't know what things are. So you know, I drank it, it smelt really heavy. I saw that it was red. You know, she eats a lot of fish. And I was like, cool. Mother's Day, I want to buy you a bottle of wine. Thinking about that. You can't go on their website and understand like what is a Shiraz? Is that heavy? Is that medium, Is that light? Does it pair well with fish? Hey, I'm a startup, so give me like a bottle from 15 to 25. And mum likes supporting locals, so give me something local. So the best way to think about application, the best applications are ones that have some form of consideration like Baby Bunting, you know, car seats, prams. You think about that before you Buy it. If you're looking at, hey, here's a blue pin, here's a, here's a red pen or black pen, there's very little consideration but you know, things like jewelry, you know, colors, sizes even. For example, we work with curvy bras and they obviously have heaps of different sizes. Something like 80% of women don't really don't wear the right bra size. How do you know, you know, without putting it on. I'm a 14F. It's tied around the straps. What is my right size? So think about it like when you've got that consideration set and that consideration phase, that's where we're just prime. And then obviously you need more than just a few products. So if you're a consideration and you've got five products, like it's, it can still work but like it's not as, it's not as good. But you know, choice paralysis like starts to set in at 24. Anything more than 24, 25 products, you start to get confused. So really consideration and a reasonable range and we're plumb beautiful.
[Voiceover]: And I can imagine too that it would be a beautiful addition where sites have a high acquisition cost for first time customers because you see a lot of, lot of sites paying a lot to get customers there, but then customers just getting overwhelmed or confused once they reach a site for the first time.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, you're bang on. So I can't mention which client yet, but one of the customers are working on it, doing some pretty intense like AB testing. And from there we've actually found that the system performs well and better in general. But they've got a metric called new customer rate. And Preezy is converting new customers at twice to three times the level of not Preezy. So let's pretend that 15% of your audience is new customers. People who use Prezi are converting at double that rate if they're new customers. So we are definitely seeing that, you know, existing customers do like it. But ultimately if you're, if you're a super experienced, you know, guitar player, you know, hey, I just want the Les Paul in this color. Sweet. Prezi can't provide as much value, but if you go in looking for a gift or you don't know what you want, then then there's just a tremendous amount of value there. And we are seeing that for sure.
[Voiceover]: And do you find that retailers are using Prezy just as part of the site flow or are they creating specific landing pages to point new customers or specific email lists towards A bit of everything.
Michael Tutek: So you can obviously embed it directly in the site on homepage, on collections pages. We do have quite a few customers that have landing pages. For example, Misamara who do rugs. They've created this whole Persona narrative which is great, called Clio. And they can shoot ads to a direct page. That's Clio. Talks all about their virtual stylist Clio. Clio will help you this. Clio can recommend this and you can shoot ads to that. And then further to that. A lot of the behavioral psychology that we work on to basically implementing the software dictates what we do. So, for example, I think you had the ozhair and Beauty guys on, and they use it for exit intent. So think about it. You go on a page and there's like 2,000 shampoos or 100 whatever creams, and you go, this is just too hard. When you go to leave, it goes, hey, I've identified you as someone who's about to leave. If you're leaving because you need help, engage with us. We'll help you. So there are a lot of different ways to use it. But yeah, people definitely do create landing pages because then they put it in like their menu links as like, for example, the bed finder. You know what I mean? Things like that.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, well, it was Anthony at Ozhair and Beauty who reminded me of what you guys are doing and reminded me of our conversation. And I thought his use of it as an exit page strategy was really clever as well, because I've seen it in home pages and splash pages, but never seen it as an exit page. So it was nice to see it in a new form.
Michael Tutek: Initially, when we did the exit intense, what we found was people that or end user customers that engage with the exit intents converted higher. And we thought, wait a minute, that's crazy. These are low intents. Because sometimes people go, oh, you plugged in a page? And they go, oh, people with high intent use this. So then you go, okay, fair enough, let's plug it in. An exit intent. And then you go, okay, that's definitely not high intent because you're popping up with people when they're about to leave. And what we found was the exit intent average across all our customers convert higher than just plugging it in directly to a page. They obviously get used less, but they convert higher. And then we. We've got a behavioral specialist, a psychologist who's a part of our board, and I took it to him and I said, chris, what's going on? Like, yeah, you Know, we always wanted to try this feature. You know, it's performing great, which is awesome, but, like, what's the science behind this? And we did a lot of research, and I basically found that, well, you're targeting people when they're confused. So, hey, like, he was like, this makes perfect sense. Think about it like this. You walk into a store. Let's go. The good guys at JB hi Fi. You look at 100 TVs. You walk one to the other, and then you turn around and you go, ah, I'm out of here. Then the sales assistant comes in and goes, hey, did you need help? I'll service you. I'll help you. You know, it makes perfect sense. So it was super interesting to kind of see that unfold, to be. To be completely frank. It was. It was a really pleasant surprise.
[Voiceover]: Can you tell us more around Chris the psychologist who's on your board? Tell us about how you made your board up, because that's really fascinating because I've noticed on your socials and on Prezi that you are constantly sharing psychology tricks around E commerce, which is fantastic. Like things like the choice paralysis, decoy pricing, the endowment effect. It feels like Chris the Psychologist is what I'm going to call him. He has a really key role to play in what you guys are building.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, he does. Yeah. So recently, like, we raised some capital and we put together a board kind of late last year. It's got some really heavy hitters on it, like Mark Goddard, who used to be CEO of Spotlight and Target, among a few others. But Chris, Chris is a really important part because everything that we do, we try and back up through science. So, like, there is a few different angles. Like, you can do things based on data, just statistical data, which is great. But then you go about. And you go, all right, when I'm mud mapping what to do, and I'm looking at in store versus online, like, how do I figure out what to build? We have five developers full time. That's a lot of features you can build. How do I go about that? And a lot of that is stemmed through just looking at the in store. But then talking to Chris, going, hey, does this make sense? And what he does is he brings a level of consumer behavioral expertise to it. So a simple one, like the narrative. Yeah. Human beings, and this is not anything new, but human beings love storytelling. Every human being loves storytelling. We're actually about to release like a PDF on all this stuff.
[Voiceover]: Cool.
Michael Tutek: There was this psychologist that bought like 130 bucks worth of junk and they created stories around it and they sold it on Marketplace and they made like a few grand extra. So looking at all that on your own business, on your own website, what's the story, what's the narrative? You know, things like endowment and choice paralysis. Why are you showing people 20,000 products if you have a range of 10,000? Great. But like do some personalization, figure out the top couple. Because you know there's a lot of studies done with the jams and all that that talks about like showing people you know too much, they just get confused. So everything we do has a level of that. Like for example, there is one called perceived effort. So for for yourself, anyone that uses Prezi on one of our customers websites, you'll notice when you press get results there is a loading GIF and it says like analyzing your data. Now we do a lot of smarts in that process, but it's very fast. So only a couple hundred milliseconds. But we came up and spoke to Chris and Chris said, listen, there's a thing called perceived effort or heuristic effort. What it means is if a customer tells you a little bit about themselves or puts effort into your system, if you show them results too quickly, like instantaneously, they subconsciously will not feel like you have actually taken into consideration their inputs. And I said, you're kidding. People want quick, people want quick for load speed, but you haven't engaged. When you engage, people want to know that you've done something smart and you've considered it. So what we did is we integrated an artificial delay configurable and we put in a loading GIF that actually tells the customer what it's doing, like cross referencing your results, putting some product recommendations together and engagement click through rates, conversions all went up after. And it's just, it's really crazy because you know, sometimes when we interview UX experts, we say to them, what's better, a loading gif of 500 milliseconds or a loading gif at 4 seconds? And they all say, well most of them say 500 milliseconds but from an actual conversion and data point of view it actually doesn't. And a good way to think about this is when you go onto a website and let's go flights or hotels do it. You put in a bunch of stuff and it's loading, loading, loading. No one goes in there and goes, oh, nothing's happening. Everyone's like, something's happening. They're churning through data, they're thinking about what I'm doing. It's the same thing. So that's just a really interesting example. So yeah, this Chris the psychologist as you call it, we really utilize his skills because to be honest, every other industry does it, especially telcos and E commerce just doesn't even touch on it to be honest. Like most e commerce providers. Some would, you know, some really sophisticated ones would. But you know, there's a lot of power in this.
[Voiceover]: There's so much there right around one having a psychology lens in your business but I just love the fact that you've got something loading longer than what is necessary to kind of trick's a bad word but to convince customers there's a lot more intelligence and a lot more personalization happening for them than there really is.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, exactly. I think part of it is we just got to keep in mind all your customers are human beings. They always will be human beings. So thinking about it like a human, most people buying off you aren't familiar with elasticsearch. They don't understand or probably unlikely to know that hey, you can cross reference 7000 products all with 16 different variables and a bunch of lucine real rules in the space of 300 milliseconds. It's like it's not natural, like our brains can't do it that fast. It's typically not natural to think anything can. So you know, it's not, it's, it's really just about articulating what we're doing and if you have a bit of words you have, you need a couple seconds to read them and then people go okay, cool, I understand what you're doing and it makes sense. So it's, it's really, it's really, it's really interesting.
[Voiceover]: Can you tell us more around the data that's required for you to surface results because we touched on it before is that filters and sorting on website is usually broken to some level and from what I've seen it's not normally because of the platform or the technology, it's because of the data attached to the product set.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah.
[Voiceover]: What kind of data do you need in order to surface relevant results?
Michael Tutek: So this is the cool part. We've got customers believe it or not and all they give us is the bare minimum like URL, image price, SKU in stock and description. So for example we've got one customer that we troll into the descriptions and we basically create a bunch of rules based on descriptions so we don't need much data. Like we're actually launching a new business soon and it's literally just descriptions. So if you think about a description, the whole point of a description is to describe quickly and easily what the product is. So a quick example, let's go. You talking gift baskets or toys? If you're doing toys, if it's a kid's toy, it will probably use the word kids. Child, it may be age 1, 2, 3, 4 plus. And most filters, they can't clean that, but our system has the ability to clean a lot of that. So, like, we can actually create a rule that says, all right, look for these terms, but not this and. Or this. And then you go, all right, the rule is actually look for the word child, but not the word adult, not the word, you know, sexy. Because they got like sexy toys or sexy card games and you know this. And then all of a sudden you go, wow, that's super accurate. So we don't need much. But having said that, if you do have clean data and like, for example, you have clean tags, like, it means the configuration is easier for sure. But we don't need clean data and we've got several customers who don't. So we specifically spent a lot of time making sure that we could work with customers because it's unlikely. A lot of customers have clean data, especially in like an accessible format. But we've kind of covered that. Tick that box off.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, Nice, nice. It takes a big barrier down to get started.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, for sure.
[Voiceover]: What kind of e commerce platforms are you integrated in? What does it look like to onboard prezy into that experience?
Michael Tutek: All right, so you start with us. Our onboarding process is usually one to three weeks. So I will caveat with people. Look at these. They look at, you know, Lorna Jane or Bevels Babe, Bunting, Blue bungalow, Ozhay, and they go, this is gonna take me forever. The idea is it's not. It's all light touch. So there is no coding or development required. So the process goes like this. Let's just go Shopify. We get your Shopify app, you make a private app, we get your API, we bring in all your product inventory. All your product data is in the space of 5 seconds. If you're Magento, it can be a CSV feed, JSON feed, whatever. So then from there we then create the Q and A. So the questions and answers is literally just like, think about it like a Q and A sheet. You write in the Q and A, we create some logic and then we add on some icons and images. We design it and it's all configurable. If you want to make changes, you want to Change, copy, you want to change text, create new rules, make new Q and A, even completely refine the whole design. It's all configurable, no development. Then when you want to go live, all you do in our system is you go into a place that's got the code and you copy the code, literally control C, control V, into your website. So the only development required, I wouldn't even call it development, but the only development that is required is copying and pasting our JavaScript code snippets into your site. And that's it, it's all done. And for most platforms like BigCommerce, Shopify, Magento, we've got quick start guides, and 70% of the time developers aren't even involved. It's like the marketing manager or it's the owner. It's only when you want to do some really complex stuff that you actually need a developer. So hence the whole process can take one to three weeks. Like, it's not like, to be honest, we got a customer live last week that took them, I think, a day or two.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, right.
Michael Tutek: Like actually a day or two. And they had like nine workflows. Because it does like a knife finder.
[Voiceover]: Okay. I could imagine the. A big part of the process would be understanding the possibilities and working through all the scenarios because you could. You put a tool like this in front of someone and you could think of a thousand use cases straight away and you go, well, where do we start? With one or two?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah, you're right. Like even quite a few brands, like, like Curvy is a great example. They have it for helping you find the right bra size and also bra in one. But if you find the right bra, you're on a Triumph xyz. Like, you don't want to detach from that. So then it's just the sizing finder and then all kinds of different categories. So, yeah, the process there is pretty straight, Nathan. We just look at the categories and we go, listen, if you've got 10 or 15 categories, it's pretty common that most brands, like a handful, two, three, four, are responsible for most of the revenue. And you start there. Or if you know that you've got a real big pain point, like for example, let's go. You go, oh, for whatever reason, we have a return rate of 20% on tops. And you go, cool, that's costing you 100 grand a month. Yeah, it's a big problem. Sweet. You know what, let's start with tops, because this will reduce that return rate because we can help them find the right size, et cetera. So, yeah, you're right, there is so many use cases, but it all comes back down to the value. You know, where is your revenue coming from? Where are your pain points? You know, focus there, start there and, you know, work your way down.
[Voiceover]: Don't get too tricky. Bite off the big chunks first and then work your way through.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, exactly. Like, it's very rare that a customer would go live with more than four or five workflows. Like, it does happen, but now we've got clients like Sportitude, Ruminant Sportitude, he has like 25 or 30 workflows. But you just, you don't start there because it's a progression.
[Voiceover]: And the experience, is it different on mobile as it is desktop? Because I could imagine with something like yours, is that using a mouse to go through, because it's visual as well, isn't it? So it's all very visual, would be different experience to using your thumb and scrolling and swiping.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, it is, but it's not really to be completely straight. Like, we are mobile first. Most of our revenue comes from mobile. I think on average our clients are 60 to 70% of the traffic is mobile. So everything we do is mobile first. And what I found interesting is our uplift in conversion rate is higher on mobile than it is desktop. So everybody knows Desktop's usually 60% more in general. So let's go, you got customer. A conversion rate on desktop is 2%, conversion rate on mobile is 1.5. Let's go 1. For argument's sake, pre's increase on mobile might be 3, 3 or 4, and then desktop might be 2 or 3. So there is always an increase. But we've noticed a larger increase on mobile and I reckon that's because obviously mobile, you have physically less room to look at filters and navigation is way harder on mobile. But the reality is the actual experience is the same. It obviously takes up more room and we often make it smaller on mobile. So we make it like, we can make it big on desktop and small on mobile, so it takes up less vertical space, because that's obviously critical. But there's a lot of little things we've done on mobile. For example, like, you know, it auto scrolls you to the top so when you click next you don't have to scroll back up. We can have like floating buttons so you don't have to move. Like you can literally just go, click next, click next. But yeah, the reality is the experience is very similar. Like, you just, you just Kind of make it smaller physically for mobile. And that's it.
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Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah, cool. So our pricing starts at 600amonth. That's Australian. And it really just goes up based on usage. So typically the more traffic your website gets, the more people that engage and use us, the more the larger percent of your revenue that is converting higher. So there's more value. So the more usage, the more IT costs. And it's really based on traffic. So we've got enough examples now to go, all right, where do you want to place it? And then we can just do like an assumption on how many people will use it. Yeah. And it goes up starting at 600amonth.
[Voiceover]: Nice. As you mentioned before, you got some investment last year, I think it was about 700k, which is fantastic. And it shows the confidence that some smart people have in what you're doing. What are the plans? Where's your focus area for Prezi and moving it forward.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, so the focus for us, I mean from a product standpoint, we've just employed new tech or two new tech resources taking in. And we're going really deep into the psychology and more into bringing the in store experience online. Some of the features we're working on now are like visual merchandising, being able to run the whole product page and also have all these smarts connect that with workflows, upgrading our analytics. So for example, what's really interesting, Nathan, is imagine, you know right now brands use what's been purchased as an indication of what the market wants. But a really famous quote, I don't know, I don't remember the quote verbatim, but the owner of Zara had a famous quote that he said we don't get what was bought and provide that to the market. We figure out what the market wants now and we make sure that's in the shop in four weeks. That's why he like grew so big. So one of the projects we're doing is we're going to soon have the ability that someone who uses a workflow, let's just call it Bevels Jewelry. Hey, this is what I, you know, this is a watch that I want. It's men's, it's not divers. I like these colors, this is my style, et cetera. I was recommended these watches, I physically click these watches, but I ended up purchasing this. And what you can do is imagine having 10, 20,000 transactions all the way from asking them what they wanted to seeing what they purchased. Then we'll be using that in our own machine learning. The client can export it and use it in their own machine learning. And what's really interesting about that is you start to really pick up on perception versus reality. So for example, we ran a test with one of our clients and one of the questions was, is Eco friendly or is it important that this is sustainably sourced? And if you go yes, no, like a huge percentage of people click yes. It actually broke my heart a little bit to be honest, because I went 70% click yes, that's awesome. But then we changed the question and we said, what is important to you? And we had like six options and one of them was Eco friendly or sustainably sourced. And only 4% of the people click that. So the reality is when you ask them the direct question, yeah, they all say yes, but when you put that in front of other components, it's nowhere near as important. And that broke my heart because I'm all for climate change and all that, but I just thought, geez, that's interesting. So to be able to link that all to what they purchased. Like imagine we found out that, hey, for that 4% of people that actually did click Eco friendly, that they were very, they had a 20% conversion rate on products and that had Eco Friendly in the name, then it's like, whoa. And then I could do some really intense stuff here. Like even we've got a company that's changing product names. Like they're actually changing product names based on what they learn. So a huge analytics upgrade and then really just building it all together, like having like product recommendations, personalized banner ads, or personalized banners with our personalization blurbs and then building like this entire in store conversion platform that you know you can use in different parts of your site.
[Voiceover]: Brilliant. And does the crackdown on cookies and user security and privacy, if more walls go up there, does that impact you at all?
Michael Tutek: I'm not an expert in this, but I Have done a bit of research. From what I can see, it will positively impact us. Like I said, I'm not an expert, but like there's a difference between third party data and first party data. When you're using Prezi on a domain, that company owns that data. So one of the things we hope to do in the future is, you know, I mean, I'm talking a couple of years in the future, but customers be able to have their own Prezi accounts and like you could log up, have a Prezi account, answer a bunch of questions and then it could say, okay, this is what I know about you. These 400 websites are partnered with Preezy and then all the personalization is actually done, but the customer knows you have that data. You can delete that data. Ultimately all of our stuff is on the website. Like you plug our code in, it runs in. You physically put in if there's lead forms, like we can have lead forms. You physically put in those lead forms with checkboxes and the customer, whoever that is, bevels or whoever can actually own that data. So it's not like you're going into Facebook and you're just grabbing all this cookie data or you're unintentionally getting info. So from like we've had one or two companies who have gone, oh, where they're starting to talk to us more because they're worried about like Facebook and all this stuff. And they've gone, well, if you're first party then that just, that's completely different. So the personalization could be more just, you know, first party, just getting the actual info. I guess the trick is showing consumers that they can trust that you hold their data securely. You don't use it in the wrong ways, which we never would. But yeah, that's, that's from what I understand. But you know, I'm not a super expert in this stuff.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And do you, it makes sense. Do you have customers who have Prezi implemented on the front end and then use that data? So whether a customer might say, hey, I like Red Shoes or I care about climate change or whatever it is and pull that data back into their customer data platform or their CRM.
Michael Tutek: Yeah, yeah, we do. So we've got. There's two different ways to do this. If someone does Prezi workflow, you can actually capture their emails. So then you can actually go, hey, this person wanted Red Shoes cares about climate change is this, is this. And the email of this person is xyz. So you can target them specifically and you can get that data and push it into your platform, into your system. So we're basically finishing up our Zapier application, because I won't lie, everyone's been screaming at us for Klaviyo API. Build it, build it. And I've just gone, okay, we'll do a Zapier one, because that's nice and simple and everyone can use it. It's becoming more of a thing. In the last six months, more customers are wanting to capture this data import into Klaviyo and then do their personalization, emails, whatnot from there. Like, imagine, for example, it's like, you know, you can see from Prezi, this is product recommendation 1, 2, and 3. You know, they like all this. You know, if they don't buy within the day, hey, this was your number one recommended product. Here's 10% off. Okay, no. Then a week later, like, this was your second most recommended. No. Okay, we know you like all this, and we recommend this. Like, you can go pretty deep with it if you want.
[Voiceover]: Yep, absolutely. That's pretty exciting. We have to wrap up, but, Michael, if I was to say to you, who is your dream client to get on board with Preezy? Who would you say?
Michael Tutek: All right, so globally, it's gotta be like Amazon or Walmart. Like these, these are the. These are all like the Gap. Worldwide, that would have to be that. But in Australia, it'd be like your biggest players, which were not in yet, like jb, hi, Fi, good guys, Kogan's Temple and Webster's, all, all those big players because they're just so big, like, and the application's so, so good.
[Voiceover]: And the good guys make sense, Right? Imagine the closing the loop of that story from where you started on the sales floor as a 15 year old, and then all of a sudden you've sold in their technology and helping them shift millions online.
Michael Tutek: I know, I know. If you know any one of the good guys, I'll take it. I'd love to close that story, mate.
[Voiceover]: Their whole team listens to this podcast. It's a given.
Michael Tutek: Perfect. Reach out, reach out.
[Voiceover]: Now, we do. You have given our listeners a special code if they are looking to get started with Prezy. And that is all in the email. If you don't get the email, reach out to myself or go straight to you, Michael, and mention that you've heard us on ADD to cart. What's the best way to get in touch with you or to get started with Preezy?
Michael Tutek: Yeah, so you can just reach out to me on LinkedIn or email. Email is easy. Michael.to preeasy.com or reach out to me on LinkedIn. That's the easiest ways.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. Thank you Michael. Really appreciate and I think it's really exciting what you're building there. It's a gap that hasn't been filled yet and if anyone wants to use it, go onto the site, check out some of the clients that they're working with and actually go in and have a play and use some of the workflows that are live and you get an idea for it really quickly. Thank you Michael.
Michael Tutek: Thanks Nathan. Really appreciate it.
[Voiceover]: Did anyone else geek out on some of that consumer psychology that Michael spoke to in there? I loved what Michael was saying about the effort. Heuristic Preezy found that conversion actually increased when it took more time to deliver results for a customer, especially when they could see that there were lots of calculations being done to deliver them the best results. This actually converted better than showing the results immediately. It's also known as the Ikea effect, and that's where customers place a disproportionately high value on products that they've partially created. Of course that value decreases when you throw a screwdriver through the shelves in frustration, but you can see how demonstrating effort on your behalf and drawing consumers into that effort can create a connection connection that increases perceived value and the likelihood of conversion. To finish up, I have three resources for you. Firstly, if you're a first time listener of Add to Cart and you want to stay up to date with new episodes, head over to addtocart.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll let you know every time a new episode drops, as well as giving you my three takeaways from each episode and a link to the transcripts so you can know that this is an episode that you want to dive straight into. Secondly, if you want a weekly roundup of the best e commerce case studies tools and research, sign up to the High Five Friday newsletter which is delivered to inboxes at 8am every Friday morning. I read all the e commerce news and send you the bits that I think you can take action from. Sign up at 12 high 12h I g h.com au high 5 and the last thing if you are looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, head over to esweettalent.com we are a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands. Check it out Sign up to the email and get in touch with touch with me if you want to discuss your next move. Until next time. Thanks for listening and keep those customers adding to cartoon.
