[Voiceover]: We've just opened Pandora's box. This is not easy. Loyalty points are not going to make me want to buy more with the brand. And then making sure you do your risk assessment is if it goes tits up then is that okay or is that not okay? Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.
Nathan Bush: Hey, it's Nathan Bush or Bushy joining you from the land of the torrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. Now what do musical theatre and e commerce have in common as well as over the top divas and harsh critics? According to today's guest, it's more than you'd think. In today's episode we are joined by Jennifer Gilbert, trained musical theatre performer and now head of Digital at Nutra Organics, Australia's favourite family owned natural health food brand. Jen's a data obsessed e commerce leader who's cut her teeth at retailers like Rye.com, facial Co and Makeup Cartel brands where she learned to blend performance with practicality. Now at Nutra Organics she's crafting magic moments across every customer touchpoint. From personalized product quizzes built in octane AI to flyer inserts and post purchase emails in Klaviyo. All while juggling Amazon growth, international expansion and a brand that's as heart led as it is high. Performing a big shout out today to Klaviyo and Shopify for bringing stories like Jen's into the Add to Cart spotlight. So if you've ever wondered how to turn first time customers into loyal advocates or whether AI can help you hug your customers harder, let's get straight into today's episode. Quick heads up and no, this is not an ad. If you are enjoying the free content that we share across the Add to CART community socials and this podcast, we would love your support hit subscribe to help us keep bringing you the best e commerce insights around and keep this thing running smoother than same day fulfillment. Jen, welcome to ADD to cart.
[Voiceover]: Hi Bush, thanks for having me.
Nathan Bush: So good that you are here. You're actually in my hometown backyard in northern New South Wales.
[Voiceover]: Oh well, northern New South Wales is the place to be. That's where we're from as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, well tell us about Nutra Organics. Tell us for those who may not have come across Nutra Organics, what makes Nutra Organics unique?
[Voiceover]: Nutriorganics is super unique. I mean it's been around for 26 years in Northern New South Wales. And then since that it's managed to become like Australia's favorite family natural health food brand. I mean we're in over 2,000 stores nationwide. So I think that's doing really well. And it's so unique because it covers so many different categories. It's not just oh, we do collagen or we do broth. It really is looking at how it can look after the full family's needs and it's, it's really special to be a part of that as well because the people that work at Nutra are hand to heart some of the most amazing, beautiful people I've ever had the chance to work with. And it's, it's a real honor to be a part of the their purpose led vision and I love it.
Nathan Bush: Oh, that's so nice to hear. Tell me, what was it that led you towards nutriorganics? Give us a little bit of your background before that.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So my E Commerce background starts back in 2013. I was in between contracts when I used to do performing work and it's really hard in that world to get your gig and fighting for the next contract. So I had a really good setup with a local business, ry.com and I used to do just anything that they needed to be done. So it was in the warehouse, it was adding products to the website, it was validating affiliate orders, it was customer service and promotions and everything. I think what was really good about that as well is it has laid such an amazing foundation for me because I understand what the knock on effects can be for different departments. So that was my training ground.
Nathan Bush: I can't let you go on there without picking up on something that you said that you kind of just glossed over from your performing career.
[Voiceover]: Yes.
Nathan Bush: What is that?
[Voiceover]: I used to be a musical theatre performer and I actually still do it a little bit on the side in like community theater.
Nathan Bush: Because I love how you've done like the whisper thing. Like no one will know.
[Voiceover]: No one will know. Let's not tell them. No, that was, that was my history. Love to dance, love to perform, got to do some international gigs and work on some full scale professional performances. And then I got to a point where I was like, I'm ready to go to the next stage of my life and I really love E Commerce and I kind of just landed in it.
Nathan Bush: You're kind of like, I just can't wait to go from performing on stage in front of hundreds of people, if not thousands of people, to sitting behind a computer all day.
[Voiceover]: Yes. But there's actually a lot of similarities. Similarities between musical theatre and E Commerce. There's a lot that goes into just that one moment that somebody sits in a theater and is taken on a journey. And there's a lot of problem solving. There's a lot of thinking on your feet. There's so much more to it. I think there's actually quite a. Quite a good crossover.
Nathan Bush: Okay, we'll pick up on that soon because I want to hear about where you think the moments are in that customer journey that are so critical to have that. That experience. But just fill us in on those last bit of gaps before you get to Nutra Organics.
[Voiceover]: Yes. Picked up at Facial Co, which was an amazing opportunity to kind of get bricks and mortar as well as online. And then I had an amazing opportunity to be the E Commerce manager at Makeup Cartel. And they have, like, Esme Skin Minerals, Pony Cosmetics, Lip Heroes, a really incredible brand. And it was such a boutique when I got there, and the owners were so willing to go, hey, here's the keys. Go drive. And I mean, now it's. It's a brand that has just grown and grown and grown. And that experience as well was absolutely amazing. And then had a little gap there.
Nathan Bush: Had a baby where you probably worked the hardest out of any time in your career.
[Voiceover]: It was definitely really, really challenging. Still is.
Nathan Bush: Yep.
[Voiceover]: And now I'm at Nutra Organics.
Nathan Bush: Cool. And so at Nutra Organics, how do you define your ideal customer when you are. You know, you mentioned before that it is for the family and it's about delivering health and health outcomes. How do you know who your ideal customer is?
[Voiceover]: Well, I probably challenge that word, ideal customer. The ideal customer is whoever the customer is that come into our. Into our sphere. And we have a co founder called Ricky and she gets the best hugs ever and she'll meet you for the first time and she just has her arms out wide and will just squeeze you in for a hug.
Nathan Bush: You want to be a hugger, then?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, she's a hugger. And I think that's kind of what we do as well. However, I would say we are a little bit more well rounded than just for the family. We know that not everybody is able to have a family of their own, and that doesn't mean that they're ostracized from being able to have the right products for them and in their journey as well. So we do have a couple of different customer Personas then, that we zone in on. Yes, we've got that wellness conscious Mum. And then we also have the health minded female. So definitely going after the females and whether they are, their primary concerns are how do I squeeze nutrition into my kid who only eats chicken nuggets and chips. That's my child.
Nathan Bush: Yes, same.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Right. It's a well balanced diet. Or for the woman who is, you know, super active and she's trying to make her the most healthy version of herself.
Nathan Bush: And so from an acquisition standpoint, then, as you're looking to find new customers, are there certain triggers or behaviors that you're looking for that you know are kind of those launching points into that they're now ready to explore what you've got available at Nutra Organics?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I think it comes from we solve a problem, we're going to meet you where you have that problem. So we're not fads, we're not into diet culture or anything like that. But if you have recognized that, hey, my gut health is just not doing well, you're going to need something for that and that's where we meet you. So if you come onto our site, we've got an amazing product finder quiz that kind of helps you narrow down based off on your benefits and your lifestyle. Diet. Not diet. It's the wrong word, isn't it? After your lifestyle needs or allergies or, or anything like that helps you then narrow down what's going to be best for you. Because we don't just want to sell a product to anybody. We want you to have the right product that's going to help you not just be a product that gets stored in your pantry and you never use.
Nathan Bush: How did you build that quiz? Because I could imagine that that would have been a lot of debate going into that quiz in what are the triggers, what are the filters? What are the outcomes that you want to deliver, especially for new customers? Because this could be the first piece of information that they get about you and your products and how it relates to their lifestyle. What was the process to create something that you're all really proud of?
[Voiceover]: It was huge. And do you know what, like most things, especially for people who are just getting into any new industry, you're like, oh, this seems simple enough. We will do it like abc. And then you start doing it and you go, we've just opened Pandora's box. This is not easy at all. So it was a real struggle. And we, I have a really amazing, amazing team. Billy, who's our E Comm campaign manager, she led this project really, really well and collaborated with our R and D team. But you're right, we went through so many different approaches to make sure that it was spitting out the right information for the customer and that it was helpful for them as well. And so we chose to go with the benefit LED approach first and then how we narrowed that down and the setup was extraordinary. But the conversion on that quiz is astronomical. It is so fantastic. And that I think leads back to when you're doing something and you do it right, it's going to help the customer.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And from a conversion perspective, I'm not going to ask you to give us the exact numbers, but yeah, I would never tell. We will find out. No, from a conversion perspective, are you finding that conversion happens immediately post the quiz, or is it kind of starting as a lead generation that you then have to take them on a further journey before getting that conversion exactly right.
[Voiceover]: I don't think we are as linear as what it used to be 10 years ago where someone would see something, click, buy done. Now, you know, they, okay, it has given me these products. I'm going to go away and think about it. I've got this ad, I've come back. I'm curious again. Yes. So it's definitely a journey. And we added in flow in, click klaviyo. That was once they had done that quiz. A certain time later we would send them all their quiz results. That's a game changer. That was really good because it's then sitting in their email. So when they think about it and they go back, what was the results that I was given? They go back to that email. They can refresh and that's done really well.
Nathan Bush: So it becomes a health, a personalized health resource for them rather than just a marketing campaign.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Bush: And what was the tool that you used for your quiz?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, we used Octane.
Nathan Bush: Okay.
[Voiceover]: I know there's other ones as well, like Prezi and Prezi are now doing some really exciting things with their AI tool. Yeah, we're going to try that on the PDP, hopefully soon and see how that goes. But of course, like anything AI man, you've got to really check it. Right. Especially for us, because we are ingestibles.
Nathan Bush: Yes.
[Voiceover]: So we can't just go, oh, turn AI on and. And see what it recommends to people. We've got to be really, really careful. And that's one of our goals that we have for this next financial year, is how we can introduce an element of AI that can help us meet the customers more where they are. I've got more about that, but I Reckon we might talk about it later.
Nathan Bush: Well, I think it's really interesting to bring up because even as you're talking about that process of creating a quiz, right, we're doing that manually now. And you're not alone. There's a lot of people who have quizzes on their website, but it is a pretty manual process. In two years time we won't be able to dictate that journey. It will be the machine serving up the content and obviously with the guardrails in place. But I think it's going to look very different around that world of quizzes.
[Voiceover]: Which also means your product data has got to be so correct. Your schema's, Everything has just got to be immaculate.
Nathan Bush: On the product data side, you obviously have a lot of products that are very technical and new for a lot of people. So things like bone broth. People may have heard about bone broth but not necessarily know exactly what's in bone broth, how it's made or even how to use it in their daily lives. What are the most important elements of creating good product pages for you, especially for those new customers?
[Voiceover]: That's such a good question. And you're right. It's such a conscious decision that consumers are making, especially when it comes to health food. So they need to have all the information. But it can't be the scary information that is difficult to understand. It's got to be in consumer facing language that makes sense. It doesn't make them feel like they're silly because they don't know why that's important. And so we try and make sure that everything is aesthetically, I'm just going to say aesthetically pleasing because I can't think of a better word. So it helps invite people in. It's an enjoyable experience to consume that information. Because if I gave you an essay on bone broth and why it's so good for you, are you going to read it?
Nathan Bush: Not to be rude, but no, I
[Voiceover]: don't think I'd read it. So try to make sure that the content is in a format that is enjoyable for the user. Sometimes shopping can be transactional, but I think shopping should be fun and shopping should be an experience. And so that's kind of what we try to replicate on our site.
Nathan Bush: Is there a challenge or a balance that you need to strike between making your products look aesthetically pleasing and potentially on trend, but not making them look too trendy, that they look like fly by nighters, that we're just riding this wave of health because like you said, you've been around for what, 26 years, still got co founders in the business.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: This isn't. We've done this because there's an influencer who can sell our stuff.
[Voiceover]: Yes, 100%. And even when you go to some websites and there's so much interactiveness on the page that it becomes too much and instead of leaning in and going, oh this is really interesting, what does this product do? You lean out because you're overstimulated, you don't know where to look, you don't know where you're supposed to look. And I think we have an amazing creative director who is just absolutely brilliant. Everything she does is just beautiful. And you would see that if you go to our website, if you see us in any health food stores, you will see just how beautiful the work is. But she does purposeful creativity. So everything is very intentional in that way so that it's not just beautiful for beautifulness sake.
Nathan Bush: I love that phrase, purposeful creativity. Is there anything around the Nutri Organics brand and the creative behind it that you think makes you stand out, that you've intentionally gone out to be a little bit different on from a way that you showcase the product or the way that you communicate to your customers?
[Voiceover]: No, I actually don't know the answer to that question. I think our creative team is brilliant in what they do that I don't know. I just think we're the best.
Nathan Bush: That's fair. Like that's just modest. I like the modesty behind it as well. Yeah. So we've talked a lot about acquisition, especially around new customers. If I was to pose a question to you to go, would you rather have two new customers buy from your site today or reactivate an existing customer for a second time, which would you choose?
[Voiceover]: I'd always reactivate the customer, the returning customer. Because if you take into your new customer, acquisition costs to get a new customer, your cogs, your freight costs, all of your opex, are you making any money off that customer at all? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the industry that you're in. But if you are reactivating a customer, whether that is a current active customer, that's repeat purchasing, or someone that you're winning back, the lifetime value of that customer is going to increase. And we know that once you've gotten a customer from the first purchase to the second purchase, they are so much more likely to stick around. I think most companies books would have like 70% of their customers would be first time customers because that hurdle from 1 to 2 is really tricky. So I'D always pick the repeat customer.
Nathan Bush: Do you have any tips or tricks to get customers from that first purchase into that second purchase?
[Voiceover]: I do have a couple of little tricks.
Nathan Bush: Any that you want to share?
[Voiceover]: I think the final mile is something that gets overlooked a lot. You've spent so much time and effort in getting a customer to your website. You've created the awareness, you've created the activation, you've converted them and then they get the product. Was that an enjoyable experience when they unopened their box? Was there a magic moment in there? So trying to create as many magic moments as you can, especially in that final mile where you don't have a lot of control, what you can do to improve the customer's experience is going to lead. That's the lasting memory of your brand. I think that's probably the biggest one I'd start with. And then it would be working out how you keep that conversation going. We don't always want to ask, ask, ask from our customer. How else can you give, give, give so they purchased from you. Now it's time to establish and build on that relationship you're giving them. Hey, this is how you can use this product, this is how it can evolve into your lifestyle so that you're giving more value.
Nathan Bush: And you're doing that mainly via email?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, we do that mainly by email. Don't underestimate the power of an impassel flyer either.
Nathan Bush: Mm, that's a good trick. What do your impassel flyers say? Well, what's the, what's the messaging?
[Voiceover]: It depends on what you're doing, depends on the objective. So if you have, say first time customer, they would get a completely different impassel flyer than a repeat customer. If you have a loyalty program, and I know loyalty programs, people can have really strong opinions on them, but depending how you're using your loyalty program, we use our loyalty program as a way of recognizing and rewarding loyalty rather than I'm trying to make you a loyal customer.
Nathan Bush: What's the difference?
[Voiceover]: What's the difference? Yeah, loyalty points are not going to make me want to buy more with the brand. It's not going to make me love that brand more. But if I'm already a fan and I can be a part of that program, yes, that's going to be it for me. So someone who purchases once is not going to be, oh, I can't wait to spend $500 more so I can get into the next year. But once you're invested in that brand. Yeah, I want the inside scoop. I Want early access. I want this free gift. Yeah. So my detour there. Yeah. An impassable flyer for a loyal customer. Hey, you're in our top loyalty program. We're just saying thanks again for coming for the ride.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, totally different messages and recognizing where the customer is on their journey with you.
[Voiceover]: Exactly.
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[Voiceover]: I think the biggest thing is what are your customers already saying? Like what are the friction points? What are the questions that your customer service team is getting bombarded with? They're coming to you with the things Exactly. To put in those post purchase emails for us as well. We have over 600 recipes on our website because a lot of our products you use in baking or you use in foods. So rather than saying, hey, put it in your dinner, we've got 600 recipes on the site to give you inspiration for how you can continue to use the product.
Nathan Bush: Yes. So come with the recipe first, not the product first. Yeah, yeah, cool. Turn me back to magic moments. And we touched on this at the start around the Synergies between performing on stage and giving people that moment in the crowd and then giving your audience those magic moments throughout the journey. Have you got an example in mind or something that you're really proud of, a magic moment that you've created at Nutra Organics somewhere in that customer journey?
[Voiceover]: I think magic moments, they don't always have to be the big confetti cannon at the end of a show. A magic moment is just where you over deliver and what the customer's expectation was. And so I like to think that we do this in our customer journey on the website through their experiences with us when they contact us. We are so generous with the information that we give back and then again with the content that we give post purchase as well. I mean magic moments, everyone knows Adore beauty is Tim Tam, right?
Nathan Bush: Yep.
[Voiceover]: That is a moment where they have gone. It's not expected that you get a Tim Tam in your order, but I'm giving you a magic moment.
Nathan Bush: At what point does a magic moment turn into an expectation?
[Voiceover]: Oh, that's such a good question. And you know what? The customer's expectations are constantly changing. E commerce is constantly evolving. I mean from back when it was 10, 15 years ago when I started in it to what it is now, the online experience that can consumer expects so much more and it's going to completely evolve. But I think that's what we want. We want it to evolve. We want to do more and do better for our customers. I like the challenge. Bring it.
Nathan Bush: I like what you said then around going back to customer feedback and working out what customers are asking your team around customer service and how you can better service them for everyone else. If people have taken the time to email you or call you with those questions and it's probably a small minority of people who actually have that question that are out there waiting for an answer but not bothering to ask you it. What have you noticed around the way that customers interact with your customer service team compared to other places that you have? Not to diminish the relationship other places have with their customers. But do you find that there is a different tone of voice or a different approach that customers have with Nutri Organics but because they feel like they have a genuine relationship with you rather than kind of just a service led business?
[Voiceover]: Yes. And I think as well this also differs based on the region too. So our US customer where we're a completely new brand in that space compared to our Australian customer where we're a legacy brand almost. And like everyone that I speak to I don't need to explain what Nutri Organics brand is. So I think there is that relationship already that if there's something on the site that's broken, a US customer might be way more abrupt about it, but an AU customer is like, hey, I just wanted to let you know, did you know that this was broken? Oh, thanks so much for letting us know. We'll fix it. And that's it. Yeah, so they're, they're definitely completely different customers. But back to customer feedback as well. I am such a data led person and I know Mark Bartz is, I can hear his voice in my head right now being like, oh, data led. Yeah, right. I love him.
Nathan Bush: I think he says that to everyone.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, that's right. I mean that's why we have tools like Gorgias where we can be a really hands on with micro tagging and then looking at the analytics and finding trends and seeing how we can reduce the number of people reaching out to us with the issue rather than solving it or having good FAQs on the site or whatnot. And then we have Humi which I am such an advocate for anyone who hasn't heard about it. It's like mystery shopping. You know when they used to do that, I don't know, maybe they still do it.
Nathan Bush: They still do.
[Voiceover]: Oh, you know, mystery shoppers would go into McDonald's and whatever to test the service. They do that on their own.
Nathan Bush: Best job ever by the way.
[Voiceover]: I know, so fun. Yeah, I'll buy something from the store. But yeah, we have that on Nutri Organic. So every month X amount of people go on site and go through the full journey and then give us quantitative and qualitative data on all those different data points so we can see exactly how we're going in all those different. I think there's eight different areas. And then also benchmark it against our industry. Incredible, incredible, incredible. So you can actually make some really meaningful changes.
Nathan Bush: What's a change that you've made that you think has been triggered or. No, that's come out of those mystery shopping surveys from Humi.
[Voiceover]: I've got three things. One is we launched a brand new website last October and it was a really good way of testing how things were going across the new site. We were really happy with some of the results that we got and one of them which surprised me was how low our returns was doing because we don't get any returns like three a month.
Nathan Bush: Oh, incredible.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it's amazing. And so we hadn't really ever put much energy into it. Once we looked into it, like, oh, yeah, we've got inconsistent messaging on the side or whatnot. So we're able to fix that up. But one of the parts that is a struggle for us is we don't have customer service on 24. 7. We have it during work hours, and while we tried to have it at night, we haven't been able to do it. And so most people shop in the evening and we want to be there with them, we want to help them on their journey. But we do have that roadblock. So that's why we're looking at implementing Gorgeous AI Agent onto our site. So that customers who are shopping at 9pm with a glass of red wine in their hand after their kid has gone to sleep can get the help that they need in that moment.
Nathan Bush: I love that after they've had their bone broth and all their supplements and all their healthy stuff, they've got the red wine on the couch after the kids are in bed.
[Voiceover]: It is all about balance.
Nathan Bush: What else has come out of those Humi surveys that have surprised you?
[Voiceover]: I think it's also surprised us on how well we're doing in other areas too, because we can be our own worst enemy. And we can, you know, this person's doing this and they're doing this, and that's amazing. And then actually know we're doing really well. Our sustainability is so good on our site and the search and discovery is really well and the packaging and the product is really good. So getting that positive feedback as well, that kind of goes, yes, we're on the right path, but okay, these things we can fix.
Nathan Bush: I've never thought about it that way, but that's a really interesting take on how to use Humi. And that kind of qualitative feedback is that it actually stops you deep diving into areas that you're actually going all right on. Because often in E commerce, we're our own harshest critics. Because we're in it all day, every day.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Yeah. And just because the business down the road is doing something doesn't mean that you should be doing it or your
Nathan Bush: customers give a fuck about it.
[Voiceover]: Exactly, Exactly.
Nathan Bush: Shopify is committed to keeping their merchants at the cutting edge of innovation. And the features released in their Summer 25 edition are no different as they give brands the tools that they need to work smarter today and thrive in the future. For example, Shopify's AI tool Sidekick just got a lot smarter. It's able to synthesize data from multiple sources simultaneously. Moving beyond basic Q&A to solve complex business challenges. They've also made scaling globally even easier. With Shopify payments, you can now manage various business entities and settle up in multiple currencies from a single store. And for Instore POS has been redesigned making the day to day experience for retail staff easier with improved search, intuitive navigation and a more flexible card. Check out over 150 features that have been released by searching Shopify Summer 2025 Edition. You mentioned before that you're a self confessed data nerd and we've talked a lot around the experience of magic moments and getting that real customer feedback when it comes to data and what you keep an eye on along the whole customer journey. Beyond conversion rate and sales, what are the key metrics that you're looking at to know whether you're giving your customers a good experience end to end?
[Voiceover]: I think it depends on where they come in on the website. So a customer that is landing on a recipe page, I'm not after a conversion. We just want engagement on the site, someone that has come from a Facebook ad. However, I want to see them going onto a product page. That doesn't mean that they have to convert from that session, but we want them to be exploring the products customer that is coming from an email, I want an add to cart. So it just depends on where they are in the customer journey and sometimes that can be dictated based off on the channel, the marketing channel that they come to the website from.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned the flows that you have set up from Klaviyo before. What are some of the flows that you've set up that you think are just the non negotiables that have to be there because they work their butt off.
[Voiceover]: I think everyone's going to know the answer to this. A really good welcome flow and a really good abandoned car.
Nathan Bush: Nice.
[Voiceover]: I mean that's it, right? That's where you're going to start. That's the biggest bang for your buck. Welcome is so I think people can overlook this one and we have absolutely in the past as well. This is for a lot of customers, most of them that's their introduction to your brand. So welcome in. We've sometimes thought we know what the customer wants to hear and you quickly work that out based off on click rate, unsubscribe rate on second and third emails we go oh they just didn't click on something. You're like yeah, cool. Customers at this stage are not interested in this technology of our fast drying for Prof. Okay, that's much later on.
Nathan Bush: That's an Interesting one. The welcome emails is like a no brainer. Right. Everyone knows that you need a welcome series. I think the challenge is when you are a brand and you've got so much to say, like I've got a new customer, I want to tell you everything about us and I want to tell you about this product and this product because it's all important. Where do you start? Where have you found that you get the most cut through in that first email welcome?
[Voiceover]: Check your zero party data. So when you obtain that customer's consent and email or sms, have you also been able to attain anything about what they're interested in? So if you go onto our website right now, you'll see that we have your 10% off. We have a 10% off for first time customers. But it also asks you a question around what you're most interested in. So that way you're already being able to go, this is a customer that has kids and they're wanting to look after their kids needs versus this person is after gut health. That way you're giving relevant content to the right person at the right time.
Nathan Bush: So have you got flows set up off that? Because I looked at that before we jumped on the call and I think there's about eight different tick boxes that you could choose from. So have you got different flows set up based on what I nominate that I'm interested in?
[Voiceover]: So not at the start. At the start everyone gets the same because we are Nutri Organic, we are a brand that's more than just your kids products and we don't want to pigeon ourselves in. That's just a kid's brand. Yeah, but then as you go through then yes, there might be a different content block that speaks about gut health versus immunity or your kid's health or what like something like that.
Nathan Bush: Smart. And that's dynamically populated. Yeah, through Klaviyo. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Klaviyo is an amazing, amazing beast. But it is a beast and it's about trying to make it work for you.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Great. One of the things that I notice on the site right now is that you're running a competition for a trip to Byron Bay, which is pretty cool. And last time I saw you we're actually in Byron Bay so you must have been down there wheeling and dealing.
[Voiceover]: And we have a community day tomorrow and we are raising charity for a Byron Bay charity that collects food that hasn't been. That would usually get discarded, but it's still good, it's still fine. And gets that to people who are hungry and need Food.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. Well done. Yeah, that's fun. And it's so good to do it in your local area as well.
[Voiceover]: That's it. Yeah, we're very community minded in our local area.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. When it comes to that competition though, that you're running, because you're promoting it pretty heavily, I saw it on your Instagram and everything as well. What's the outcome that you want from a competition these days? Is it new customer acquisition or is it rewarding existing customers?
[Voiceover]: So we have aligned that with one of our broth campaigns and so that is around new customers and getting awareness. So I think it depends on the objective. If we were to do a competition during a sale, that's different to doing this competition right now where we're trying to get some more awareness and some more reach.
Nathan Bush: Yep. Okay, that makes sense. We've talked a lot around creating the ideal experience and owning the customer experience, creating those magic moments and making sure everything's personalized to get that customer ordering multiple times at the same time. You're also stocked on Amazon. How do you reconcile those two worlds where it makes sense that you're on Amazon because you're a product that can be replenished pretty quickly and customers might need quick delivery. So from a convenience and lifestyle perspective, it makes sense. How do you then reconcile that with. Is it the experience and the relationship that we want to have with them one on one?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it's such a balance. It is such a balance because we want to meet customers where they are. And historically that has been whether you like to shop in store, in Woolworths or online. But there is a growing consumer base that just want to shop on Amazon or prefer to shop on Amazon. So we want to meet customers where they are, but it also still needs to serve our business goals as well. And that is another balance. We have a really amazing partner that helps us with Amazon. And so it's not just about trying to sell as much as possible through Amazon, but it's about weighing up profitability and particular SKU list to make sure that it's serving the businesses needs but also meeting the customer where they are. It's a balance.
Nathan Bush: What's the biggest difference that you've learned around retailing on Amazon versus retailing through your own site.
[Voiceover]: I really don't like on Amazon that I don't know who the customer is. So I can't tailor anything for them. I can't create experiences for them. It does become more transactional and that is a big challenge for me. I can't walk them through a journey. You know, it's very difficult to do any cross selling, although I know they're bringing something out that helps with cross selling. But yeah, it's a continual challenge. But Amazon's going to continue to grow in Australia and it's a place that we want to make sure that we own that space for our brand. Otherwise our retailers will own that.
Nathan Bush: Do you have any way of having an understanding on whether customers are discovering you on Amazon and even making that first purchase and then buying directly through your site?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it's so tricky because again, you don't have those data points that you own. We do a bunch of surveys and a bunch of reports, so every year we do a brand equity report and we also ask our customers about their shopping behaviors when we don't have the data. So are they switching between online and Woolworths and Amazon or in store? So rather than just assuming what we think the answer is, we'll ask the customers and then be able to go, okay, well that confirms that hypothesis. Or the channel switching is not actually that big between our online store and Amazon, which kind of reinforces that theory that Amazon shoppers love to shop on Amazon. I think there's a little bit of an addiction there.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And there's a. We talked about, you know, when does a magic moment become an expectation? If you talk about Amazon, right? That idea of I can order today, have it turn up tomorrow, it's always reliable, it's always there. In any other retail world, that would be a magic moment. It's an expectation on Amazon, right?
[Voiceover]: That's right. That's right. I ordered something on Amazon and they delivered it on a Sunday.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Wild.
Nathan Bush: Wild, isn't it? What's coming out to me in our conversation is that there's this beautiful mix of brand and creative that's inherent in everything that you do at Nutra Organics, but also a really strong data element. Everything from how you acquire customers using those little bits of zero party data at the start to shape the journey to through to your Humi mystery shopping and then your deep love of everything. Going to Gorgeous, going to Klaviyo, going into all the tools that you've got to get those points in the customer journey. How do you bring all that together into a strategy for the year? So say you're planning out your next 12 months in where you're investing your time and your money in digital. How do you bring all that together into a clear strategy of what the next 12 months looks like to have enough certainty on where you're going. But also enough flexibility that if things change, you can adapt.
[Voiceover]: I love that question so much. I think data lead strategy, and this part is the most favorite part of my job, that I can use data, use the company goals to create our E commerce goals and our roadmap and then execute that. And exactly what you said before readapt as well. So I like to start with what the company goals are, which includes as well, top line revenue, spend what we've got with acquisition marketing and then kind of working down from there. So having a look at what is our CPA trends been like for the last 12 to 18 months. Okay, what can we hypothesize will happen for the next 12 months? What does that leave then from returning customers? Okay, there's a gap here. Where am I going to close this gap? Are we going to try and reduce our CPA costs? Are we trying to increase our marketing spend? We're trying to get our existing customers to reorder more, to spend more. What is it then can work on? What is our full site metrics looking like? And again, how do we chase the gap? Chasing the gap? You can then go, okay, well our conversion rate has to be here, but it's here. This kind of then can dictate exactly what your roadmap needs to be. You're not now throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks. You were trying to make 1% improvements on something that is actually going to help you meet your team and your company goals. So then I like to go, okay, well quarter by quarter is a nice way to break it up because if you just go, this is what we're going to do for this year. You get to halfway point and then you're like, oh, this project actually was really big. We should have started six months ago.
Nathan Bush: Or I'm guessing what the market's going to be like in six months. Yeah, like I can act confident about
[Voiceover]: these numbers, but the good thing is like you can then go, okay, after the first quarter, say it was you needed to improve conversion rate and you're going to do that by adding in a tool to your site to do a lot of a B testing and see what lifts that after that quarter or whatever period of time did that work? If it didn't work, why was it poorly executed or was it a bad idea? And then readjust. How can you make that improve that better? I'm a big, big fan of how can you make 1% improvements. It doesn't always need to be moving the world to make A difference. But just having those tiny little improvements can stack up over time and get you from zero to hero. And we've seen that at Nutra as well. We've had experience, exceptional growth year after year. And I'm so proud of. Yes, we have an amazing team and amazing product, but we have good strategies, we've got a good roadmap, and we have a good mindset of fail fast.
Nathan Bush: Go for it.
[Voiceover]: If it doesn't work, that's okay. It's not the end of the world. Let's. Let's fix it up and try something new.
Nathan Bush: How do you put boundaries around fail fast? Because some mistakes are recoverable, some are costly, and some are deathly.
[Voiceover]: Oh, my gosh. Have I made mistakes in the past? Some of them have been, you know, like, oh, I sent an email way too early. I've done this one before, like, click frenzy. And it was a back when clickfunc.
Nathan Bush: We just had Grant on the show, by the way, just
[Voiceover]: changing where I've, you know, last chance and I hit send on the launch day and, you know, that's a little mistake. Bigger mistakes are when you don't read a contract very well and then you want to pull out and you have to pay that full contract. So I think the guardrails are absolutely. Knowing what your responsibilities are when you go all in on something and then making sure you do your risk assessment is. If it goes. I was going to say tits up.
Nathan Bush: No, that's exactly the kind of show we are.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. If it goes tits up, then is that okay or is that not okay?
Nathan Bush: How do you give your team those guardrails and boundaries?
[Voiceover]: We have really good communication and so my team members are not alone in what they do. And if something goes poorly, they are not the only ones that are held responsible for that. And the same thing if something goes really well. It's a team effort as well. So we're all. We're all in this together.
Nathan Bush: I was hoping we'd get a musical number by the time the podcast was out. We got it.
[Voiceover]: I'm more of a dancer. I should have done my high kick.
Nathan Bush: We are recording video. It's fine.
[Voiceover]: Warm up.
Nathan Bush: I'm getting old now and then. So then as you're planning out. So I always ask this of our guests of the next 12 months. What are you most excited about? What are the big things on the radar for you and the Nutra team?
[Voiceover]: I am really excited about the results we're getting in the States. This has been just so exciting to see how everything has come into alignment and then we're just getting really good results. So for our little team in Australia to be making such strong headways over there, I just am beaming with pride and I'm so excited for what the next 12 months are going to do for our US side, our US business of Nutra.
Nathan Bush: That must be exciting for you too personally from a career perspective in the having another skill set under your belt around international expansion and understanding that market.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So this is the second time that I have brought a brand into the States, but this is the first time that I will have in my tool belt to have grown it to the level that we're going to grow it to. So awesome. Just beaming with pride. And I think the other thing I'm really excited about is we've removed some friction within our E commerce team so that we can move faster on some new things we want to bring to the site. We were having a few bottlenecks before, but not anymore.
Nathan Bush: What have you removed?
[Voiceover]: We've got an extra resource.
Nathan Bush: Oh, that's always helpful.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. It just means that there was a bunch of things that we are always having to pause on or not do because it wasn't reasonable to ask the team to be able to do that. But yeah, now, full blades ahead.
Nathan Bush: Exciting. Jen, I am so pumped for you and I can't wait to see you take on and conquer the US what's the best way if people have heard this and gone, either I need to get some of that bone broth into my system or I want to reach out to Jen and continue the conversation. What's the best way to go about that?
[Voiceover]: I love it. Well, if you're interested in anything Nutri Organics, we're in Woolworths, we're in most health food stores in Australia and we have an amazing online website. It's so good. It's nutraorganics.com that I use.
Nathan Bush: I've heard it's pretty good.
[Voiceover]: It's amazing. You'll love it. And if you need any help with finding your products, you can either do the quiz or chat to one of our very helpful customer service team. And then if you're interested in chatting with myself or coming along on my career journey, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful.
[Voiceover]: And I think she has got the.
Nathan Bush: We'll put all your links and all your contact abilities into the show notes.
[Voiceover]: Amazing.
Nathan Bush: Jen, thank you so much. That was a fun chat.
[Voiceover]: My pleasure. It was so much fun. I love a good E commerce chat.
Nathan Bush: Can't believe we've got a musical number in there. I know.
[Voiceover]: It wasn't very good either, was it?
Nathan Bush: Well, compared to if I did it, it's a lot better than what I would do.
[Voiceover]: Thanks so much.
Nathan Bush: Thank you for joining us on Add to Cart.
[Voiceover]: Pleasure. Thank you.
Nathan Bush: Well, how's that for turning post purchase into center stage? I love that we got a little musical number from Jen there as well. Just a little hint into what her team gets every day. Now Jen's not just sending emails and pushing products, she is orchestrating full blown experiences. I love that term, magic moments. We're going to talk about that in a sec. From recipe fueled retention strategies to building a quiz that converts like crazy, this was one of those chats that remind you that E commerce is as much about heart as it is about data. Here's what stood out to me. Number one make magic moments. From inserts in packages to email emails that are set up as flows, Jen's all about over delivering at every stage in the journey. I think it's her stage background that brings these magic moments to life and helps in all the little touches that turn a transaction into a memorable experience. Number two, Design from the data strategy starts with numbers, but as Jen explains, there are so many data points that go into creating the numbers that make matter. Jen uses zero party data in her surveys, mystery shopping with platforms such as humi and the little 1% wins along the way such as AB testing to make sure that they're continually building smarter, not just adding more into the mix. Number three Own the journey but meet customers anywhere. Nutra protects the D2C experience. We heard how much Jen loves that ability to create a moment for her customers at anywhere along the journey. And to do that you need control. However, that hasn't stopped Nutra from expanding into where their customers are, whether that be Amazon, Woolies, wherever, as long as it serves both the brand and the buyer. So don't let a steadfast belief that you need to deliver an experience that you own stop you from exploring other channels where you might not have the same ownership. A big thanks to Jen for sharing the stage with us, musical metrics and all. And thanks again to our partners Shopify and Klaviyo for making this episode possible. And don't forget while you're here, if you want more of the good stuff, come and join me and hundreds of other Ecom legends in the add to cart community. We would love to have you in the mix where we talk all things E commerce. Answer any questions that are going on for others in the industry and make sure we keep each other inspired. While you're here, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss a thing. Catch you soon. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep those customers adding to cartoon.
