Katrina Van de Ven: Actually not a niche. The plus market in Australia is about 2/3 of all women. So how does that make your plus customer feel? You want our money, but you don't want us in your store.
Catherine Olivia: We want everyone to be able to turn up just as they are and not feel like they need to change anything.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week Nathan Bush from E Suite and and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and Director at e commerce talent agency E Suite. Today we are talking fashion. Looking and feeling good in what you wear is what we all want. But if your body shape is a little bit different, the process of finding fabulous threads can be a chore. You may be surprised to learn that the plus size market in Australia accounts for about 2/3 of all women and it is worth, wait for it, $6 billion. But that market is still considered a tricky one to go after by most mainstream clothing brands. Luckily, my guests today are taking steps to change that. Katrina Van de Ven and Catherine Olivia are just five weeks into the launch of Lookbook, that's L E U K Book, which is a one stop plus size fashion shop. With 90% of size 14 plus customers feeling underserved by existing shopping options, Katrina and Catherine knew they could make a serious difference in this space. They have 10 brands currently on board and are set to double this number in the next few months. In this conversation we discuss the lucrative plus size market that many brands are leaving behind, the importance of fit and some other choice F words, and Lookbook's plans for global expansion. The team at Lookbook are also offering 10% off for add to Cart listeners, so make sure you sign up for our newsletter to get the coupon code.
Nathan Bush: We'll also share it at the end of the episode.
Nathan Bush: And if anyone is interested at a shot at modeling, listen out for Lookbook's call out during the chat. So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio, here's our conversation with Katrina Van de Ven and Catherine Olivia from Lookbook.
Nathan Bush: Katrina and Catherine, welcome to Add to Cart.
Katrina Van de Ven: Thanks for having us.
Nathan Bush: So good to have you guys here. We were just talking then you only launched five weeks ago and here we are in Add to Cart. Yeah, must have been a Crazy. Five weeks.
Katrina Van de Ven: It has, it has.
Catherine Olivia: It's been a whirlwind. And in that time, we've also run our first editorial photo shoot. So we have done a lot. We've launched a business, run some photo shoots, and now we're chatting to you.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. I feel honored to be within that five week window. All right, let's take a step back. We are here to talk about the business that you have just launched, which is Lookbook. And for those playing along at home with earbuds in, can you share what Lookbook is and how to spell it in case they want to look it up while we're talking?
Katrina Van de Ven: Absolutely. So Lookbook. Now that's L, E, U, K book at the end and at the outset, Nathan, I will tell your followers why it's spelled that way. So Catherine has Afrikaans heritage, I have Dutch heritage. And Luke is a common word across Afrikaans and Dutch. It means fun, it means fabulous together. The term is a play on the traditional idea of a fashion lookbook, which I think a lot of your listeners might be familiar with if they speak fashion. And it really conceptualizes what we're trying to achieve with the brand, which is really recasting the narrative of what it means to be fashionable and making that more inclusive of plus size women.
Nathan Bush: Right. And obviously the URL was available.
Catherine Olivia: Yes, it was. And also from an SEO perspective, we're really lucky because we are the entire front page of Google. So yes, brilliant. Also strategic.
Nathan Bush: All right, so the plus size market, tell us about that and how Lookbook services the plus size market.
Katrina Van de Ven: Absolutely. So, Nathan, we spent the first half of 2021 getting out there and talking to 14 plus women. So all up, we either spoke with or observed the shopping behavior of about 2,000 plus size women. Overwhelmingly, they were unhappy with what's going on. So about 90% of them were saying, I'm actually not happy with my shopping experience as it is. And I think a lot of your listeners might be thinking, oh, that's nice, but it's niche. It's plus fashion. There's a reason why a lot of mainstream brands aren't currently going after it. And to them we'd say actually not a niche. The plus market in Australia is about 2/3 of all women. So when 90% of that 2/3 are fundamentally unhappy with the way things are, we think there's a pretty lucrative business opportunity there.
Nathan Bush: Why do you think there's some fashion brands leave plus size behind?
Catherine Olivia: I think that there's often a misconception that women plus people don't necessarily want to invest in their wardrobe. And there's this misconception that you are always striving to change your body size or shape. And so I think that the straight size fashion industry has really put plus fashion to the side. But the reality is, through our customer validation, there was an overwhelming response in that these women really want gorgeous clothes to clothe their bodies, but they just can't find these amazing garments. And so that's sort of the genesis of our business model and how it came about.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. So tell us about the model that you guys have come up with.
Katrina Van de Ven: Absolutely. So Lookbook at its current stage is a fashion marketplace. So you can think of it in terms of some of the well known fashion marketplaces which we all know and love, but it's specifically cut for curves. So there are three fundamental pillars when we talk about Lookbook. Love a good bit of alliteration. So they all start with F. So firstly we have fashion and that is bringing together really a curated collection of the best plus brands. So Nathan, the reason that we landed on that as being really important is in Australia, the major market leading brands account for, for about 25% of all sales. So that means that smaller and emerging designers are really taking up 75% of the market. That's really significant. But at the moment there's a real disconnect between those brands and the customers that love them. And the reason that we know this is because the way Google's set up, they're not going to come up, they're never going to make it to the top of Google because they have smaller marketing budgets, they're a smaller player. So people really have to seek them out. Customers have to go and subscribe to the mailing list, they have to find them on Instagram and frankly that is a tax on the time and the energy and the effort of plus women. So that in a nutshell is why we're bringing together the best brands. It's a one stop shop and currently we have 10 brands which will be building out to 20, we hope by the middle of the year.
Nathan Bush: And why did you go down the marketplace route to, to bring other brands in rather than creating your own brand in itself?
Catherine Olivia: Because there are so many amazing emerging designers. As Katrina alluded to, it's 75% of the Australian market. And I mean, Katrina and I don't necessarily have that retail experience. And so it would be a really great place for us to start to also learn from the designers that are listing on our site.
Katrina Van de Ven: I would also say never say never. So while Our brands are doing incredible design work. If down the line we were to see that there was a gap that we couldn't fill with any existing brands that our customers were calling out for, then absolutely, we might dip a toe in the water.
Catherine Olivia: So, like, one example is just the basics in a plus size woman's wardrobe. So a leather jacket that is really, really difficult to find, or just a really nice cut black blazer for work. Those types of staple items that most women have in their wardrobes but we just can't seem to find yet. So an opportunity for us to produce them ourselves as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah, Brilliant. Five weeks in. It's a shame you haven't got to that yet. And have I missed the other two Fs?
Katrina Van de Ven: Let's circle back because I'm sure the listeners all want to hear, what are these other two F words? I promise neither of them are an explanation.
Nathan Bush: You've probably lost a few listeners now.
Katrina Van de Ven: So, look, the second pillar, Nathan, is fit. So what we mean by that is, when we were out talking to our customers, about 85% of them said, look, I have an issue with one body part when I'm shopping online. I think all of your listeners will resonate with the fact that bodies come in all shapes and sizes and it doesn't always align with the information that's provided. So. So we know that when it comes to women's fashion, you often get a bust, waist and hip measurement. But for our customers, they're often saying, oh, my shoulders are a bit broader, my thighs are a bit bigger. That's not adequate information for me to make a decision. Which is why we're partnering with our brands. We've got additional data points that respond to the specific pain points of our customers when it comes to fit. And we're using that to create some technology that will provide them with bespoke recommendations based on those pain points.
Nathan Bush: Great stuff. We'll come back to that, the fit technology, later in the conversation. I'm dying to hear the third F.
Katrina Van de Ven: The third and final F is family or friends. And essentially what we're nailing here is the fact that because the plus community have felt underserved by shopping options, these women have got into the habit of essentially crowdsourcing. So what that means is they'll jump on a Facebook group, they'll jump on an Instagram page, and they'll say, hey, guys, I have a date on Saturday night. I'm a size 22, I want a little black dress. Where can I shop? Where's going to ship in time show me a photo of yourselves wearing something like what I'm after and that's amazing. And the community spirit that underpins that is incredible. It's entirely altruistic. The women participating in this don't get anything in exchange. But I think the flip side of that, it's reliant on goodwill. The people who are running these forums are normally volunteers and then on top of that the feedback actually never gets back to the brands. So if the chat is around, hey guys, this season the jeans from X brand aren't really working for me. That information's never seen. So we're incentivizing all of that behavior. On Lookbook we have an inbuilt community forum. And on top of that we have a loyalty program which incentivises women providing that advice, providing that feedback which we in turn give straight to our brands to help them improve. And we also enable our customers to earn loyalty points through those community minded behaviors.
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Nathan Bush: there's something that's just not gelling with me as we're talking because you talked about the size of the market and the opportunity there and then you're talking even about the brands that you're partnering with and how they are plus size specific brands rather than brands who have the whole range. And you've got these communities that are almost like self serving kind of self functioning communities that sit over here and they have to kind of do their own thing because no one else is helping them. Why is there such a disconnect like we would you like to see brands have a wider range of sizing options or do you want to raise the profile of the plus size brands that are dedicated to plus sizing?
Catherine Olivia: I think that when you think about the fit and the cut of Garments. How you would cut a garment for somebody in the straight size market, as opposed to the curve mark, is very, very different. When we look at leading brands that we aspire to that are doing this really well, they are generally the brands that would start at a 14 or seen and then scale up because they're starting at a point and a model where the garments are actually made for purpose, if that makes sense.
Nathan Bush: So to your second efforts. More about fit than it is about size.
Catherine Olivia: Yes, exactly. Because in my wardrobe alone, I have between a size like 14 and an 18, but I'm just the one size and shape. So really considering from our perspective, what we've found is that the smaller designers really are the ones that are doing the amazing work in the space.
Nathan Bush: And what's been their reaction to this marketplace as you've taken it out to the market? How have they reacted?
Catherine Olivia: It's actually been overwhelmingly positive, especially because we have brands from different scales. So some of them are larger and can be found like in Maya, for example, or David Jones. And then we have smaller brands that are either just starting out or in between, really. And, you know, when we come and we pitch to them and we say, you know, we can ensure that we are capturing the audience, that we're capturing the market. Our cost of customer acquisition is really low and we can really manage the marketing and the business operations side of the business and you can focus on the more design side of things. It's just like we're answering all of their prayers because they're just, they're trying to scale, but it's really, really difficult. And so when we are selling to, it's actually not a really hard sale. And now we're actually in the position where brands are reaching out to us, wanting to be listed on Lookbook. So it's a very nice position to be in, but of course, we've worked quite hard to get there.
Nathan Bush: And tell us about some of the brands that you've signed up already.
Catherine Olivia: Yeah, so I can rattle some of them off. We've got 10 on board at the moment. So we have 17 Sundays. We have Pablo and Katie, Alison and Domini, Embodied Women, Curvature Bikin. What else do we have? Anto Apparel, Chasing Springtime, Monica the label and Novella. And we have about 10 in the pipeline that will stagger through coming on board over the next couple of months before June.
Nathan Bush: So, yeah, and I can imagine for them it's brilliant because they're focused on this market, but they're also, I'm assuming that they've got particular Styles. So there's no one going from the full wardrobe from, you know, workwear to casual wear to party wear to the whole lot. Right. So bringing it all together.
Catherine Olivia: Exactly. And that's where we've been really conscious in making sure that we really can be that one stop shop for a plus size woman to be able to find anything that they need in their wardrobe.
Nathan Bush: And from a retailer perspective, I'm assuming it's a commission arrangement.
Catherine Olivia: Yeah. So it's very much similar to a marketplace model where we would take, we take a percentage cut of each transaction that goes through the site.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. And on the flip side, from your customers perspective, I know we're only five weeks in, but what kind of feedback are you getting? And is there anything that's been really surprising to you so far?
Katrina Van de Ven: Can I just say the most exciting thing? Nathan for me has been going out into the real world and mentioning Lookbook and people saying, oh my gosh, I follow you guys on Insta. I've bought something off the site or even if they haven't bought, I'm stalking the site and I've got things on my wish list.
Nathan Bush: So.
Catherine Olivia: Yeah. And we even went to a catwalk situation. I don't know how to describe it. Like a catwalk really. And one of the models came up to us afterwards and they were like, oh my God, your lookbook. And like had this a fan girl moment. Oh my God. Like people are actually following us and engaging and interacting and it's so nice to also meet these people in real life.
Katrina Van de Ven: Yes.
Nathan Bush: Oh, I get the same here. Even with ADD to cart, it's like I feel like I have these great chats with people but I never get to meet the people who are listening on the other end. So when I go to an event and they go, oh, I've been listening and that kind of thing, like, oh, sorry, I probably let you down in real life. But it's like, it's that fun scenario of actually connecting.
Catherine Olivia: Like know that you have a real audience.
Nathan Bush: That's it. Like, yeah, that's when it feels real too.
Katrina Van de Ven: Right.
Nathan Bush: Is that you feel you actually get to meet the customers that are shopping or listening and that becomes a really real, really quick.
Katrina Van de Ven: Yes, yes.
Catherine Olivia: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Any piece of feedback that surprised you or that you've already had to change based on that feedback too early.
Catherine Olivia: I think for us it's a lot of refinement of our sales funnel and sort of the UX side of the website really understanding how the customers are responding to the website. So yeah, really refining that. But in terms of particular feedback, I don't know.
Katrina Van de Ven: I think that the main thing I could probably touch upon, Nathan, is if you assume you've had a look through lookbooks, and we are conscious that we try to. We are entirely committed to having the most diverse cohort of models possible. So now that we've started doing our own editorial shoots, we are very strict on size diversity, cultural diversity, body shape diversity. And that's something that. Because we don't shoot our E commerce shots, it's simply not in our power. Well, all budget, let's be honest. When you have hundreds and hundreds of products, which we do, it's just not viable for us to be reshooting every one of those. And some of our brands have come to serving PLUS customers relatively recently. So for them, they're in this transition period where they're getting more inclusive models. So over time, and we're certainly nudging them along on that journey, and they've all been incredibly receptive because they're passionate enough to give lookbook a go. They understand the value of this market. But we're really passionate about practicing what we preach and making sure our brands are doing the same. Because at the end of the day, people want to see bodies that look like theirs and see what garments are going to look like on them. I think this age of just having an aspirational model who in no way, shape or form looks like you, I think people are a bit over it.
Catherine Olivia: Just to add to that, I think one of our key challenges as a business has been trying to find models that are signed above a size 20 or even a size 20. So that's also been a challenge. So we've actually had a bit of a. What do you. I don't know what to call it, like a.
Katrina Van de Ven: We've had to go out into the wild and approach ladies and ask if they'd like to model for lookbook, which has been incredible. And we've had a really positive response. But maybe that's one we can throw out to your viewers. Not just signed models, but any ladies above a size 20 who would love to get out, have some beautiful photos taken and be part of this move towards more inclusive fashion. We would love to hear from them because that has been a challenge. I didn't expect that we would have.
Nathan Bush: There you go.
Nathan Bush: You tuned in to listen to a podcast and now suddenly you're a model.
Katrina Van de Ven: Strange things have happened.
Catherine Olivia: And, I mean, I think it also. If we can really prove that there is a demand for these models, then that Puts more pressure on the agencies to make sure that they are signing models above those sizes.
Nathan Bush: Looking at your site and the photography you've got up there, the models, it is really diverse and really well styled and it's great because you get all the different ways plus fit, plus size can be represented. Is there a barrier for people identifying themselves as plus size because of the misconceptions around what plus size is in market?
Katrina Van de Ven: Absolutely. Can I tell a little story here?
Catherine Olivia: Yes, go for it.
Katrina Van de Ven: So Catherine and I actually met one another through the MBA program at Sydney University and then we were fortunate to be welcomed back last year as a client partner for the marketing course. So essentially all the MBA students had to do their assessments on Lookbook, and part of that was doing customer journey mapping. So they had to go and find women who fitted into our demographic, have a chat with them, understand what their shopping experience was like and what they wanted out of Lookbook. So on the first day, you know you've got relative gender balance in the cohort. But it was really interesting hearing the students talk because most of them weren't in our size range. Even if they were women saying, I don't know anyone who's a 14 plus, like, how am I meant to find someone to talk to? To which our response was, have you actually spoken to women in your life and asked them what size they were?
Catherine Olivia: Your sister, your mom, your grandma?
Katrina Van de Ven: Because they came back the next week, week having done these interviews and their outrage, having actually found these women in their life to speak to was palpable. They were saying, oh my gosh, I can't believe it's this bad. I have spoken to my mum, my sister, my girlfriend. I didn't realize that she was a 14 or 16, because who goes around and asks the women in their life what size they wear? That would be invasive and odd. So I think there really is that misconception. And just in that micro example, seeing how quickly people went from saying, well, that's others that doesn't affect me to going, wow, this status quo is actually fundamentally hurting people I care about. And yeah, even though it doesn't directly affect me, I'm going to get angry
Catherine Olivia: about was helpful for us too, because it really created a fire in these students. And so the next part of their assignment was a go to market strategy. So we got really amazing helpful insights in terms of that. But it is interesting because once you really challenge yourself to think about these things, you realize, oh, it is actually the majority of women.
Nathan Bush: And have you had to change or experiment with Your language to get people to self identify as part of your community. Like, does different language work for different people?
Catherine Olivia: Yes. We went through a very, very lengthy brand positioning exercise and I've worked with the leading branding expert in terms of where we position ourselves in the market and how we talk to our customers. And so there's many, many different elements to bodies and how you communicate around bodies. And so where we landed is around body neutrality. So just turning up in the world as you are, which really plays into our branding tagline, come as you are. And so we want everyone to be able turn up just as they are and not feel like they need to change anything. And of course there is a place for body empowerment and that whole movement as well. But there is a lot of that out in the market at the moment and that in itself is in a way like trying to overcompensate for something. And so we, we are sort of taking a different approach in terms of just come in the body as you are and turn up and you should feel accepted and part of the community.
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Nathan Bush: What I really like about some of your language too is that you immediately identify because you use the term 14 a lot in your communication. So people can immediately go, yep, that's me or no, that's not me.
Catherine Olivia: Yes. And in fashion that really is like plus. Size is 14 plus, which seems bizarre, but that is what it is. And then I think modeling is 12 plus. So.
Nathan Bush: So let's talk about fit, because I love that conversation we were having around. It's not just about large clothes, it's about clothes that actually fit the technology that you're working on and giving to your customers. How does that take the ordinary online fitment experience to the next level?
Catherine Olivia: Yeah, so as Katrina was mentioning before, obviously fit is very important for us and through understanding our customers, we were able to understand what their pain Points in terms of body measurements and fitness were. And so some of those for our customers are like your shoulders. And if you're trying to, you know, normally when you're shopping online, the body measurements are taken into account, or your bust, waist and hip. But of course, if your shoulders are broader, then it's not like a blazer is just not going to get over your shoulders or thigh circumference for jeans is really important because it's not going to go over your thighs, but over your waist. It's just. It's just not going to work. And so we've taken those additional data points from our designers and then feeding it into a machine learning algorithm whereby it will essentially spit out particular garments that will fit you. Or you can take it to the next level and say, I'm looking for a black dress. Show me the black dresses across the different brands that will or will not fit my body. Or you can take it to another level and understand, okay, so if I get it in, say, a 14, it will be loose, tight, whatever, here. And then if I was to get it in a 16, it would be loose, tight, et cetera, according to where on your body and how you would like it.
Katrina Van de Ven: So people can make judgments based on how they prefer garments to fit them.
Nathan Bush: So you've had to create a whole bunch of new data points to be able to put those new measurements in.
Catherine Olivia: Yes. And what's really interesting is for this market, there isn't a lot of big data around fit or just in general. And so that's really, really valuable to us is to create the database that contains all these measurements as well.
Nathan Bush: Are your partners supplying those measurements or you're literally doing it for every garment?
Catherine Olivia: No, no, the partners are supplying them, which is really, really helpful because obviously they understand the garments the best as well. And also they can take into account stretch or the fabric.
Katrina Van de Ven: Yes. And again, our designers are so passionate about fit for this market that when we asked them and we knew we were asking something that was going to be an impost on their time and energy, they just said, you know what, if it's going to help customers get the right fit first time, that's an absolute win for us. And so they didn't even push back at all.
Catherine Olivia: Yeah. So we're very lucky.
Nathan Bush: And from a technology point of view, setting up a marketplace, what kind of technology have you had to use? Have you had to use anything out of the ordinary that's really pushed the limits for you that coming in you weren't expecting?
Katrina Van de Ven: I would say it's not that the tech itself is complicated. I mean, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn to say we are built predominantly on a Shopify platform. If you look at our website, that's going to be pretty clear. But in order for lookbook do what it needs to do. So we're not only a basic Shopify store, but we of course have to interface with the stock levels and garments of each of our suppliers and make sure that that pricing and description is all accurate. So there's that component. We also have our stylists that you can book a session with online. So all of that booking automation as well as the community piece as well, building wish lists. You can see where I'm going, Nathan. This is quite a comprehensive tech stack. And rather than there being a particular pain point, it's more so each time. It's like a game of Jenga. So you change one thing in the middle, you pull that block out and then you're just hoping that nothing else that the tower doesn't come falling down.
Nathan Bush: The lesson I got out of that is you never play Jenga drunk and you never do any web development or shop changes while you're drunk either.
Catherine Olivia: Absolutely.
Katrina Van de Ven: So look, we have an incredible tech lead who knows the ins and outs of every integration and he's masterfully handled the one or two times that that block has caused things to not fall down. I'm just trying to make this analogy work. Not fall down, but just wobble.
Catherine Olivia: Wobble. Yeah, wobble.
Nathan Bush: That's all right. Early stages.
Nathan Bush: You're allowed to wobble in the early stages. You'd be worried if you didn't. So let's have a look at the wider view of the industry. We've touched on it earlier in the conversation. If we've got retailers listening going, I didn't realize there was such a huge opportunity in plus size and plus fit. What would be your words of advice to them? To cater to the audience that you're speaking to every day?
Catherine Olivia: Well, obviously to come enlist on Lookbook,
Nathan Bush: you don't miss a plug, do you? That's great.
Catherine Olivia: But aside from that, I think what we've really discovered in this market is that the influences that operate in this space really do have a sticky following. It's like a cult following really. And so whenever an influencer in this space post something, it's often sold out. So that go to market strategy really works very well. And they may not have like such a large count of followers, but their following is sticky. So they really listen to what they have to say. So I think that's really helpful and engaging with their customers where they are. So really understanding where your customers are operating. And that's also how we're approaching models. We're just going to where these people hang out.
Katrina Van de Ven: So, yeah, and I might just add on that one, Nathan, I would implore brands that are looking to do a size extension to be consistent in how they approach and treat all their customers. So lookbooks, obviously online, we're E commerce, we think that's definitely the future of shopping. But if you're a bricks and mortar store that does a size extension and this is what's the norm, right. A straight size store will do a plus size range that's available only online. So how does that make your plus customer feel? You want our money, but you don't want us in your store. So that is not. It's not going to work. It's not going to engender any sort of loyalty on the part of customers. And then unsurprisingly, customers see through it, don't spend the money, and then the brand says, oh, that failed. We're not going to bother trying to sell to the plus market again. So I think brands need to look inward at what they're doing and are they authentically engaging with this market segment rather than making it a tokenistic effort.
Nathan Bush: And what are your thoughts around brands who verbally say they're all inclusive and support plus size, but they actually are limited in their sizing range because they say it's actually not efficient or profitable to push into higher sizes?
Katrina Van de Ven: It's unfortunate this is a podcast because my facial expression just.
Nathan Bush: Sorry, I took a screenshot,
Katrina Van de Ven: but I really call that out. I mean, again, we're talking the majority of women, we're talking $6 billion a year being spent in Australia alone.
Catherine Olivia: Just Australian and 360 globally. So, I mean, it's not a small market, it's huge.
Katrina Van de Ven: So of course, of course, course there are setup costs. Of course it's not a case of in fashion it's called scaling. So how you get from one size to the next, you can't just keep adding on 5cm per size and think it'll fit. You need to actually have fit models ideally for every size on that size chart. We appreciate that there is money that has to be spent in that, but to say it's just not economical or there's not a market, I would really push back on that because the customers are there, but they want to be treated like a valued customer. And not like an afterthought.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And I will screenshot the image of your face after I ask that question. It will be the COVID of this episode.
Catherine Olivia: By the way, the response.
Nathan Bush: Katrina and Catherine, thank you so much for giving us a little bit of an insight to the early stages of lookbook. Obviously 15 months in the process of getting to where you are today. Five weeks live. What's next on so what's right in front of you in terms of what you're trying to get out next to take Lookbook to the next stage.
Catherine Olivia: So definitely getting the next 10 brands on board. That's our immediate focus. And then by the end of this year expanding globally, so likely to New Zealand first and then beyond that. And then of course we have a five year horizon because every startup does. And so. And so then really executing on that strategy that we've planned out.
Nathan Bush: Great. And they still using the strategy that the students gave you in their homework assignment.
Katrina Van de Ven: No great ideas. I have to say, if any of the students are listening, we examined all of them and some of them are factored into some of our planning. But I mean startups move so quickly and gosh, that was six months ago. So we're looking like a very different company to what we were then.
Nathan Bush: How good. And now as you are looking to go international, is there any like markets that you go actually do it really well or most markets in a similar state to Australia?
Catherine Olivia: The US does it really well. I think they're probably the leaders in this space and I think it is quite even saturated in terms of the plus size market there, which is great. There's a lot of variety and choice. So we often look to the US for examples in terms of markets that we probably want to expand into. Other really underserviced markets that are not necessarily thought about as having a really large plus size community. So I think that's where we'll probably go after New Zealand.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Katrina Van de Ven: Great.
Nathan Bush: How exciting. Now if we've got retailers who may want to join the marketplace or we've got listeners who might want to be
Nathan Bush: your next models, what's the best way
Nathan Bush: for them to get in touch?
Catherine Olivia: So we have a presence across all socials. So it's just at Lookbook. So L E U K book.
Nathan Bush: Lovely.
Katrina Van de Ven: You can also send a request to our website on the contact us page. I can promise that's not going to a little bot. As a very small startup we see every one of those messages so we can definitely start the conversation and we'll reply
Nathan Bush: big promise.
Nathan Bush: Katrina and Catherine, thank you so much
Nathan Bush: for joining us on Add to Cart.
Katrina Van de Ven: Thank you, thank you.
Nathan Bush: Lookbook are offering 10% off the first purchase for add to Cart listeners, simply head over to lookbook.com that's leuk book.com and enter the code add to cart 1010 all one word add to cart 10 to claim your 10% off and your perfect fit. All right, here are the three lessons that I got out of our conversation with Katrina and Catherine. Number one Inclusivity pays. As you heard, Katrina and Catherine came up with this idea during their MBA studies. It's not a charity or a social good project. There is a huge commercial opportunity for brands tailoring to the plus size market. Whether this is a dedicated offering or just being more inclusive, ignore this market at your own peril. Fit Over Size I certainly learned a lot about sizing during this conversation, the most notable being that plus size is more about fit than size itself. Not only do you need to create product that caters for the different fit, you need to adjust your data and your online tools to give plus size customers confidence that the fit, not just
Nathan Bush: the size, will be right.
Nathan Bush: Inbuilt Community Forums There is so much goodwill when you are genuinely looking to help communities that have traditionally been ignored or undervalued. While Lookbook are incentivizing their community for providing feedback, they will naturally get lots of feedback and interaction if they continue to push for representation. Leads to the thought, who can you stand up for in your business? To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
