Molly Rogers: We're getting a new manufacturer who's made a sample for us and he wrote back an email and the subject headline was very unusual.
Emma Clegg: Pant by using principles of universal design for all of our products, it does mean pretty much anyone can wear them
Molly Rogers: and people are experts in their own accessibility needs. You just need to ask the question
[Voiceover]: welcome to ADD to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of add to cart and director E commerce talent agency E Suite. As humans we, we are all unique, but there are certain things that we do share. This includes the irresistible urge to lick the bottom of a shapes packet when we get there. Searching for coupon codes at checkout and finding excess tagging on clothing really annoying.
Nathan Bush: I think we can all relate well to the last one at least.
Nathan Bush: But imagine if the way that mainstream clothing was designed was fundamentally wrong for you and your body. It would take that annoying feeling to a whole new level of frustration. My guests today have seen this problem time and time again and have actually built a business to solve it. Molly Rogers and Emma Clegg are the co founders of Jam the Label. They're producing adaptive and inclusive fashionable clothing. Both Molly and Emma are actually occupational therapists by trade with extensive experience in disability support and in their jobs. They were witnessing daily struggles with mainstream garments and despite having no experience in the fashion industry, they launched Jam the label in 2019 and took part in this year's Australian Fashion Week and have recently partnered with the iconic. In this chat we discuss the solutions that Molly and Emma have come up with to meet the needs of adaptive fashion. We also talk about the mainstream brands who are doing it best in this space and what tech applications e commerce businesses can implement to really nail inclusivity. And as you will hear, Jam makes clothing for everyone.
Nathan Bush: So if you see something that you
Nathan Bush: like on their website, Molly and EMMA are giving add to cart listeners 10% off.
Nathan Bush: Listen out for the code at the
Nathan Bush: end of the chat.
Nathan Bush: Sorry I can't help you out with getting the flavor out of the bottom of the shapes box though. So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio. Here's our conversation with Molly Rogers and
Nathan Bush: Emma Clegg from Jam the Label Emma,
Nathan Bush: Molly, welcome to ADD to cart.
Emma Clegg: Thank you for having us.
Molly Rogers: Thank you.
Nathan Bush: So good that you are here with us today. And I can't wait for our conversation. But it was really interesting the way we were connected. So to give everyone context, who is listening, I met your partners, Chris and Dave, the Add to Cart meetup, and had a few beers with them. Great company. Thank you to Georgia at Impact, who introduced us. She dragged me over. I was furiously, like, writing on people's wrists because I'd run out of wristbands because we'd run out of room in the venue. So I was just, like, writing on people's wrists so they could get drinks at the bar. And Georgia grabs me and goes, stop handing out stuff. Come and meet these two.
Molly Rogers: The ring ins. Yeah, the ring ins.
Nathan Bush: I was like, what are you guys doing? They go, we don't really do much, but our partners, they do a lot of.
Molly Rogers: I know. And then we were getting. I got a text from a drunk, Dave, saying, I've got you on a podcast. No worries. Nathan's great. Like this person.
Emma Clegg: We've met that person. And we're like, what are you doing? Right.
Molly Rogers: Exactly.
Nathan Bush: There you go. So where were you guys when all that was happening?
Molly Rogers: We were at a much more. Less drunken dinner.
Nathan Bush: You were going to say much more sophisticated.
Molly Rogers: No, we were getting. Yeah, we were getting texts from everywhere. It sounded like the event of the festival.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, it's pretty silly. I'm pretty good at E commerce and I can do podcasts. I can't do events.
Molly Rogers: No, they had a great time.
Emma Clegg: They loved it.
Nathan Bush: It was great fun. All right, so let's get into it. So they were telling me about Jam, the label, which is obviously the label that you've founded, and I was just blown away by what you've done so far. And it's obviously still early stages, but for everyone listening, can you tell everyone what Jam the label is and why you started it?
Emma Clegg: Yeah. So Jam is an inclusive clothing brand, which means that all of our products have design features that enable people with disability to get dressed more easily or wear our products more comfortably. So Molly and I are both occupational therapists that work in the disability sector, and we're also disability support workers. And when we were at uni together, Starting to become OTs, Molly worked with a young boy called Jack, and I worked with a young girl called Maddie. And we decided that they didn't. Sorry. We didn't have to choose between function and fashion when we were young teenagers or young adults. So why should Jack and Matty so we created jam after Jack and Maddie.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful. And was there a specific type of accessibility problem that you went after first, or was it. We've got to tackle this whole thing.
Molly Rogers: Yeah. So the sort of first thing Emma and I would always talk about was that obviously we're from Melbourne, so the weather changes very quickly, and one of the main things we would do with Jack and Matty was go for walks. So Jack and I'd be out walking, and the weather would obviously change very quickly, and I'd need to sort of whack a jacket on him quite quickly and sort of help him with that. But getting a jacket onto Jack, he's a wheelchair user and has sort of straps and supports at the sides of his wheelchair and all sorts of different things in the way that make putting a jacket on very difficult. So I could sort of pop my jacket on really easily. But for Jack, I'd often have to either put a hoodie on sort of backwards and have the hood hanging down the front just because I was like, oh, it's really cold. Let's just pop this on, or have a blanket over him. And. Yeah, and Emma and I were always just like, that's so sort of degrading. And not like, that's not. I don't walk around with the blanket over me when I'm out in public. So why should Jack have to. So the first item we created was a jacket that's designed to be put on and taken off really easily when someone's sitting in their wheelchair.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful. And how did Jack respond when you showed him that first design?
Molly Rogers: He did. He tried on the first sample, which was just sort of. We went and bought materials from Spotlight or somewhere, and we're like, let's just get this happening. And we've got some pictures where he's just yet grinning from ear to ear and loves the fact that we've. Yeah, it was for him. So, yeah, I'm Maddie. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And so how do you go from
Nathan Bush: OTs to fashion designers, though?
Molly Rogers: Good question.
Emma Clegg: Yeah, we're still learning, still figuring that one out. I think the biggest part that really helped us was that we had that functional background. So, you know, we would look at clothing that was trendy or that we were wearing and think, well, how can we make this more functional? What, you know, are the dressing needs, what are the dressing difficulties so many people are facing and that we're getting feedback on, and how can we make that more accessible? So because we had that access, sort of expertise and knowledge, it actually helped a lot towards the design process. However, we also lent really heavily on expertise in design. You know, working with businesses that help small fashion brands be able to come up with samples or, you know, simple designs and really just nutting it out together on this is how we think this could work. Can that actually work and just sort of figuring out along as we go. But you know, we were very well fortunate in a way that the products we've created so far have been sort of at our essentials and our basics. So it didn't rely really heavily on having a really in depth knowledge of the design process. However, going forward we want to be able to create more sort of funky fashion forward products. And so we're going to be hiring a fashion designer to come on board to assist us with that because obviously that's not where our expertise lies.
Nathan Bush: That's exciting. And am I right in saying that it's focused primarily on more youth fashion?
Molly Rogers: Yeah. So young people, so yeah, 18 to 35 ish we say is sort of our base range because that's where people are sort of starting to shop for themselves or sort of wanting to express themselves most through fashion.
Nathan Bush: Mustard Made make lockers.
Nathan Bush: Get that? Mustard Made Made lockers. Mustard Made lockers. Mustard Made make lockers.
Nathan Bush: But these aren't your typical old sandwich in the back, Pam Anderson poster on the inside lockers. These are beautiful bright lockers that are in demand all over the world. So in demand that when Mustard Made went to expand from the AU and UK into the US they needed a platform that would handle the expansion. And down the hallway, skates Shopify plus. Mustard Made implemented Shopify plus in just two weeks, including a new wish list feature, upsell features in cart and personalized product recommendations. The result was a successful US launch and an increase in average order value of 15%. That takes them straight to the top of the class. To read more of Mustard Main's story and see other case studies, visit the customer sections on shopify.com au+ in hearing
Nathan Bush: you talk in the research that I've done and it might surprise listeners that I actually do research.
Molly Rogers: Very professional.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, you mentioned that one in five Australians have a disability, which was a much higher number than what I thought. Can you tell me around what are the common types of disabilities? Are they ones that we would immediately come to mind or is it other disabilities and parts of accessibility that we may not even think about?
Emma Clegg: Well, because it is one in five. Exactly. It's. And I think a lot of people when they think of disability in general, but also adaptive clothing or inclusive clothing is people with physical disability or wheelchair users. However, because we've obviously worked in the disability sector for a long time, we understand that it is more than that. And so, you know, one really common one which you don't just have to experience this to have a disability is sensory irritation. So, for instance, someone with autism might be sensory defensive or just sensitive in general to tactile things. So things like tags can be really frustrating for someone with autism. But also everyone finds tags annoying. So that's one thing that you know of flat things. We have flat seams on our top again to prevent that irritation. But then also for someone like Jack or Maddie, they don't have necessarily sensory differences. However, because of their reduced mobility and difficulties with communication, a tag could be really just annoying them like they do anyone, but they're unable to communicate what's annoying them. So we just get rid of the tags. So you really have a broad understanding of disability and really everyone in society is individuals and having individual needs, and you design with that in mind, then you can meet a much broader range of customers and your customer needs.
Nathan Bush: And how do you market this and tell the story of all those features for different use cases?
Molly Rogers: I think that's where it gets quite tricky for us, because it is so. Because we use sort of universal design principles and have all these things. So we're like, yeah, there's no tags, which is great for you, you, you, you, you. So it's. It's sort of learning to share that message without sort of bombarding people with sort of lists and lists and lists of information. But that's where we. Yeah, because it's inclusive fashion, our simple design features are so helpful for sort of a really wide range of people. So I think the marketing side of it and sort of getting that story out there, this benefits, yes, someone with autism, but it can also benefit all these other people as well, is something that we're sort of still learning and sort of growing. And that's about educating the market as well. Because people don't really know what inclusive or adaptive fashion is that much yet. And sort of when they hear it, they're like, of course. But at the moment, it's sort of us being like, we do this. It's helpful for these people because of this. And it's sort of, yeah, lots of education.
Nathan Bush: And I'm assuming you've taken this back to your OT friends and colleagues and shared what you've done. What are their thoughts when you show them what you've created?
Molly Rogers: I think that every Single person is like, yes, this is so cool. And as well, I think a lot of like things in disability or health haven't traditionally been cool. Like they're just sort of very functional. And so every OT we speak to or disability support workers, like this is amazing because it actually is like funky and cool and yeah, stuff that people want to wear. So everyone just loves to tell everyone about it. It's spreads very quickly.
Nathan Bush: So cool. I was browsing the site and I was like, I'd wear that, I'd wear
Molly Rogers: that, I'd wear that.
Nathan Bush: Do you find that you have all sorts like able bodied people buying? Like it doesn't feel like it's just. Yeah. Is it for everyone?
Emma Clegg: Yes, definitely. And that is the whole purpose of being inclusive and not just for people with disability. You know, we're really strong on the thought that we want to provide inclusive options for people with disability within the mainstream fashion industry and not provide options that segregate them even further from the the mainstream fashion industry. So yeah, by using universal, sorry principles of universal design for all of our products, it does mean pretty much anyone can wear them. And like we both live in our jam, we listen every day and you know when our friends and family are buying the product, that's one of the first things I say is like, oh, I didn't think this was for me. And then they put on, they're like, oh my gosh, it's so good. It's so much quicker, it's so much more comfortable. And then, you know, they share that with the next person. And I think it is just around that education of people understanding that inclusive fashion includes everyone. It's not purposely going to segregate a certain group of people.
Molly Rogers: The first time Dave tried, because Dave and Chris, obviously we make them try on all of our samples and things. And the first time Dave tried on our shirts which have magnetic closures instead of buttons, he was like, I'm never buying a shirt with buttons ever again. Because it's so they just zip right up. Like it just pops together and it's so quick and easy. So yeah, that was weird because he
Nathan Bush: was running around the pub with his shirt off.
Molly Rogers: Good marketing for us.
Nathan Bush: That's right. And from a community perspective, I could imagine that you're getting a lot of stories coming through around how your label is helping change lives in some small ways and some really big ways. Are there any stories apart from how you came up with the idea that have really stuck with you since launching?
Molly Rogers: We've got one particular one. So a Friend of mine, her boyfriend's a support worker and he bought a shirt for one of his clients, my magnetic shirt, and he gave it to him on the day of their Christmas party and he said that the change. So the guy was quite sort of apprehensive beforehand and was a bit nervous about going to this Christmas party. But when he was able to sort of do his shirt up for the first time by himself, he was so proud and felt so cool and went to the party and was just like showing everyone his shirt and talking to everyone about his shirt and he said it was just like, yeah, such a massive change and it sort of made his night. So yeah, I think it's stories like that where it's. It seems like such a small thing but it makes such a difference to someone's self expression and confidence. And yes, that was one really nice one.
Nathan Bush: That's cool. And from a design perspective, have you come across problems from your community and they've gone, oh, I really, I can't do this or I'd love some clothing that would do this. And it's really stumped you and gone, well, I don't know how to solve that. But you've eventually been able to overcome up with a solution that you haven't seen before. Has there been any of those cases?
Emma Clegg: We're always asking for feedback constantly and so we're, you know, weekly getting suggestions from people, which is what we want. We want input from the community on exactly what's needed. So we're always getting suggestions. And because we are a small business, obviously we've started with our basic range but we're hoping as we grow we'll be able to provide more and more solutions to all these problems because they are. There's so many and such an array of them. One that we always refer to when was right when we started and we still haven't really come up with a solution for this is Jack's mum actually said to us at the start, like, oh, like if you can find a more. Less degrading and more adult sort of mature way to have a bib, Jack requires the use of a bib throughout the day. And so that's something that, you know, we've always continued to think about and we will continue to think about but it's little things like that that a lot of people may, may not consider. And you know, Jack's about to finish high school. Like he's like any other 17 year old that, yep, he might, he needs this piece of equipment or piece of clothing. However that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be daggy and degrading. So there's little things like that that we want to continue as we grow our business to really try and create fashionable solutions to. But it's just sort of one step at the time, at a time at the moment.
Nathan Bush: And have you found that adding these features, whether it be taking tags off magnetic buttons, that your cost of production is much higher than you typically expect from a typical fashion line, or is it fairly comparable in terms of costs?
Molly Rogers: Emma, you'll be better to answer this, but I think the cost of our time is a lot like our sampling protest often takes a lot more time, and especially we're manufacturing offshore at the moment. And so sort of the communication about what we're trying to do is quite difficult sometimes because a lot of the manufacturers we work with don't really understand why we're doing what we're doing. We had one, we're creating. We're sort of rejigging our Chino pants at the moment, and we're getting a new manufacturer who's made a sample for us. And he wrote back an email and the subject headline was very unusual pants because we've got like, side access and zips in different places. But we were like, they're not unusual, they're inclusive.
Nathan Bush: We've got these things called buttons. Why can't you use buttons?
Molly Rogers: Yes, exactly, exactly.
Emma Clegg: It's interesting because, yes, there definitely is a lot more time that goes into it, a lot more back and forth. And, you know, because we are a small business, the costs are a lot higher because our minimum order quantities are quite low. But in terms of actually incorporating the design features, I would not say it's drastically more expensive, which I think is something a lot of people are put off by. Especially a lot of big companies say that one of the reasons they won't do adaptive or inclusive clothing is because of the extra cost. When really, I think what it comes down to is the sort of knowledge and expertise which Molly and I have that. So for us, you know, we bring that into the business and a lot of these larger brands don't have that. But yet, in terms of the cost of the product, it's really similar cost to what any other small business would incur.
Nathan Bush: It's the upfront effort and thought that has to go into it.
Emma Clegg: Exactly, yeah.
Nathan Bush: So I saw the photo shoot that you did recently, and it's a beautiful photo shoot. Anyone who visits the website will see the results of it. But what I was really impressed by was you actually created some content out of it around how to create an accessible photo shoot. So, obviously the photo shoot showed a really diverse range of people with diverse range of abilities and it was beautifully done. But you've actually taken it to the next level to help educate others on photo shoots. So can you tell us around why you chose to do that and give us some tips around how to make things like photo shoots more accessible?
Molly Rogers: I think as story we heard so frequently from our models and sort of the disability advocates and different people that we work with was that, you know, it's great when brands are including us, but often it feels quite like they're ticking a box, because when I arrive on set or when I arrive at the photo shoot, my needs haven't been considered at all. We sort of had different people saying, you know, I'd arrive a wheelchair user, as a wheelchair user arrived, and there was no accessible toilet, so I had to go across the road and up, like, you know, around to find a toilet for me to use. So people are sort of just sort of plonking someone into the photo shoot to be like, we're including people with disability, but not sort of considering their accessibility needs. And it's really quite simple. And as we sort of say in our video, it's quite simple to have these accessibility needs included. Because you just need to ask the question, really, because people are experts in their own accessibility needs in terms of things to include. Emma, do you want to touch on this?
Emma Clegg: Yeah, Well, I think, you know, one of the things that we have to admit is that we've obviously got experience working in the disability sector for years and years, and you can kind of understand it sometimes why these bigger businesses that you think, oh, they have all the resources in the world, why can't they be accessible? Is because they're intimidated and they don't know where to start of just asking the person with lived experience, hey, what are your accessibility needs? And so we really wanted to put in the video, one, as Molly said, it's simple, you just need to ask. But two, like, yeah, you don't need to be experts on, like, you don't need to be occupational therapists and experts on access. You just need to be confident to know what to ask that person with their own expertise, they're the experts of themselves and what kind of access. And you can't assume anything. So if I'm going to go to a model that is a wheelchair user, I'm not going to assume that they need a particular type of bathroom or, you know, how wide the doors need to be or the entryways. I would say to them, hey, what are your access needs? Do you need this? Do you not need this? And. And they're going to be so much happier that we've asked then assuming or just completely excluding them. So I think that's really what we were trying to get across in the video, is that one. Yeah. You don't need to worry, you don't need to be experts in this. And it's really simple. And you just need to ask the person and trust that they are the experts in their own access.
Nathan Bush: Why do you think, whether it's photo shoots or other things, what do you think people are so usual words, just not confident around engaging around those conversations. Like, I even noticed myself, you kind of almost. You don't want to say the wrong thing because you don't want to offend everyone. And so I'm assuming, Emma, what you're saying is that because you don't want to offend anyone, you don't say anything, therefore the conversation doesn't get had, in which case you probably end up offending more people really badly.
Emma Clegg: Yes, exactly.
Nathan Bush: Is that.
Nathan Bush: Why aren't we having these conversations openly and honestly?
Molly Rogers: I think that's the thing, isn't it? I think a lot of people are scared of sort of that like cancel culture and if you say one wrong thing, then the whole community will be against you. But I think that's the thing, is that it is. Someone's going to be so much happier if you're like, hey, sorry, I'm not really sure yet. Do you have any accessibility needs? Or, hey, I don't really know how to go about this. What would you suggest? Or I think as well, people with disabilities are very used to having to explain their accessibility needs as well. So they're not going to be sort of shocked when you ask. And I think it's the exclusion of people is the bigger thing. If they're like, I'm standing, I'm sitting here or standing here, or I'm here and you're not even looking at me in the eye because you're scared to approach me. I think that's the. Yeah.
Emma Clegg: And I think, I mean, it's obviously a bigger societal issue. Why, you know, people aren't so confident with interacting with people with disability. But, you know, I think one of those things is that often people with disability, the businesses that provide to them or everything like that, have been so segregated for so long, they haven't been within sort of mainstream industries. And so you know, businesses like ours, a lot of people haven't seen. And so if you don't know someone with a disability or have a disability yourself, then you've never sort of seen these kind of marketing or engaged with businesses that also, you know, employ people with disability or represent people with disability or provide other services and products that are for people with disability. So then what is your interaction with people with disability? You're basing it off movies and TV shows and everything like that. And so you aren't going to be as confident because you've never had that interaction before.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that makes sense. Well, it makes sense. It's not acceptable, but it makes sense.
Emma Clegg: It's the way it is. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Unfortunately, now your label is stocked in the Iconic as part of their adaptive edit, which is. Feels like a really great initiative. From your perspective, what are some of the mainstream brands, to your point, Emma, that you feel are doing a good job at being a bit more progressive in the way that they embrace inclusion?
Emma Clegg: I think so. The one most people think of with inclusive clothing in particular is Tommy Hilfiger. So Tommy has really sort of paved the way for adaptive clothing in the mainstream around the world, particularly in America. You know, I think by them creating an adaptive clothing line really showed the mainstream fashion industry that big brands can be inclusive. And then other brands such as Nike, by creating, they have released, you know, different shoes over the last sort of five to 10 years that are inclusive of people with disability. And so I think by them producing products like that and sort of not being over the top and tokenistic about it either, like just being like, hey, look at this cool product. And this is how it can benefit people. I think that really also just puts into people's minds of, okay, these big brands need to be inclusive of the 15% globally, and in Australia, it's close to 20% of the market and of consumers and the population. So I think, yeah, those are two big brands that are really paving the way for other big brands to listen and to be able to start including people with disabilities.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, great examples. And I feel like a measure of whether a brand is doing it for real or kind of ticking a box is whether they focus on the people they're solving for or trying to highlight the disability. And on your website, you do such a. That photo shoot is just amazing because you've just got some really great people in there that you want to get know more about the people. You're not so worried about trying to work out what's the disability here, what's the story around the disability, it's like, I kind of want to get to know them as people.
Molly Rogers: I think that's the thing that we often talk about. I think that's something that. Yeah, a lot of sort of models with disability, it's always sort of that, of, okay, now tell your story to the camera, and we're going to put this, like, sad music over the top and we're going to make it really, you know, tragic, and you've overcome this thing and you're a hero. But, like, they're just models that are working, so. Exactly. I think it's about that. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's not a What's happened, it's just that they're a model showing off our. Our pieces are the heroes. Yeah. Like, our clothing is what we're marketing.
Emma Clegg: And if you wouldn't expect that from the other models that don't have a disability there, why are you expecting it from these models?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, exactly. Do you feel in the disability community like there is this burden because we've got some great role models out doing some brilliant things, telling their stories, getting Australian of the Year, all that sort of thing. Do you feel like there's this pressure to kind of go, oh, I have to kind of stand up and be a representative and tell my story? And, like, I don't know, is there that feeling at all, or am I making that up?
Molly Rogers: I don't know. I feel like, though, because it is, like, it shouldn't be that people have to be paving the way, but I think we're in a time when people are like, Dylan Alcott is paving the way. And so I think there's sort of. It comes with that. When you are like a trailblazer in any industry, you do have to be sort of the one that shows and shares and that sort of thing. So I guess from that perspective, it's because it is such a growing thing and it's all sort of changing, that maybe you'd hope that in a few years, like, you'd hope soon that the next people coming through the next models and the next people wouldn't have to do that.
Nathan Bush: You've refreshed your website. The new range is about to drop. You've never had more customer service options. Hey, but take a look over there at that boring pile of packaging boxes.
Nathan Bush: Ugh. Ugly. Tomorrow.
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Nathan Bush: if we take the conversation away from fashion and the solutions that you're creating for fashion, take a broader look at E commerce. Do you have any tips for e commerce managers founders out there, whether that be their website, their packaging, anything like that, that they can make their e commerce experience more inclusive?
Molly Rogers: One thing that's really easy to implement is on lots of website builders there's widgets and apps that you can install that are accessible. So we use one called Accessibly and they're sort of, you can have a free version or a paid version and they're something to really easily add on which allows a person to customize your website as they require. So you can sort of make text larger, you can change the contrast, you can change the coloring so that it's easy for someone say with a vision impairment or sort of even people with intellectual disabilities can use a larger cursor to follow along with the writing or. So that's something that's super simple. I think on social media and on your images, on your website or in your EDMs, having image descriptions and alt text is really important as well.
Emma Clegg: Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. I mean another one, most people always talk about that. I feel like those tech ones are probably less obvious and it's really great to focus on those because people don't really consider that. And especially now with E commerce. Yeah, it's all online and so everyone's moving towards the online shopping experience. So I think those are two really big points. But then we also obviously talk about, you know, in store experience as well, and even customer service as well. So you know, the people that are providing the customer service being trained on how to interact with someone with a disability, how to interact with someone with a vision impairment, that you need to describe the clothing to them or something like that. You know, obviously everyone sort of considers physical access in their stores for a wheelchair user, but they often just think about, oh, how wide are the spaces. We also need to think about, well, what's at eye level for them and can they reach things? How when they go to pay, are they having to, can they reach the register? You know, there's so many things accessible, change rooms, stuff like that that I think hopefully the industry as a whole will just become more educated on that. You know, there's great companies like Get Skilled Access, which is Dylan Alcott's company, and they provide training to an array of different businesses on how to be more accessible to people with disabilities. So even I know, Molly, you were talking about, you've done their training once and they spoke about how if you were a shop assistant and someone with a vision impairment came into your store, rather than saying the greeting that everyone says to everyone, you know, how you going today? Well, how do they know that you're addressing them? You know, say hi sir, like you know, and be more specific. Little things like that can make such a difference to someone. Returning to your brand and telling all their friends that may have a disability or a vision impairment, hey, this, these guys gave me a great experience either in store or online. They're all going to go spend their money there. So I think businesses really need to start thinking about how they can just educate themselves more on how to provide that positive experience. Experience for consumers with a disability.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And it's really interesting is that we've had a few conversations on ADD to CART recently about solutions that haven't been around before. So whether that be plus size clothing or sustainability solutions or inclusive options and you think, oh, this is nice, it's nice that there's a business doing this. But it's not just nice like there's a huge population or a huge segment of the market, that it's actually a commercial opportunity as well. It's not just a nice thing to do. Right.
Molly Rogers: I think that's what we talk about all the time. It's 15% globally of the population that you're excluding from being a purchaser of your business if you're not including them. And as Emma said, like I think especially the disability community is very tight knit and very small. And yeah, if someone finds something good, it spreads very quickly. And yeah, I think if you give someone a good experience. Exactly. They're so happy to tell their friends. So yeah, it's a massive business opportunity which is something quite foreign to us as occupational therapists as well
Nathan Bush: and as a very tight knit community, you're going to get all that great feedback.
Emma Clegg: Right.
Nathan Bush: That we talked about before. Have you got any comments that you were like, oh, that hit a nerve like something or has it all been very positive, very nice.
Molly Rogers: We get quite specific. Sometimes we'll get quite specific requests like for quite a specific purchase or. And I think that's ones when we're like, oh, like we Pop it on the list and we'll try and get to it. But it's sort of like, I need this specific thing. And we're like, oh, it's tricky when we're trying to make mass products.
Emma Clegg: Or I even think of really early days after our first photo shoot. You know, we had everyone sharing pictures when we launched and stuff. And I remember seeing this comment online someone had made because Jack and Maddie were in the pictures. And one of them said that I remember Jack or Maddie didn't look very happy and we shouldn't be using that picture because they didn't look very happy. And I thought, well, this is an accurate, accurate representation of how we were presenting at that moment. And you wouldn't say that again about a model that didn't have a disability. And you don't know, like, that might be how their face, like, fits. And you don't know what is happy or sad for them. And so I remember at the start being like, oh my gosh, like, oh no, what have we done? Blah, blah. And then yet talking it through and being like, okay, one, we can't get hung up on one comment online seeing things like that. And we know our justification behind things and if we feel confident in our reasoning and what we believe, then things like that won't be so hard to read. But I mean, we've been really, really fortunate that we've never really received any backlash or negative feedback about any of our products or anything like that. So I think we've been very fortunate. And yeah, I don't think you've been
Nathan Bush: fortunate, but you've done what you've doing very well.
Molly Rogers: The magnetic. I just remember the magnetic shirts have gotten a few funny comments about like, getting caught on things or.
Emma Clegg: Yeah, yeah, my dad's the number one leader of that. My dad went to a pub recently and the next day I got a message from him saying, emma, I got stuck to the beer tap, I got stuck to my watch, I got stuck to someone else's watch. And I was like, well, you need to be more aware of your body,
Molly Rogers: people's personal space. Stop sending things so close to people's watches.
Nathan Bush: It's a good excuse to be stuck to the fridge. I'm all right. And so you haven't just done. Okay. You recently were featured at Australian Fashion Week and got a standing ovation. And I've only seen it on the Instagram reels and it looks just phenomenal. What was your kind of first emotion when that show featured, finished and was received so well? How did you feel in that moment,
Molly Rogers: we were both, I think, very overwhelmed because obviously it was our first ever Runway. Not only was like the first Australian Fashion Week, which is huge, it was our first Runway ever. And so I think in the lead up, we were both sort of just getting through everything and taking things off and making sure everything was ready. And we hadn't really thought about how we'd feel or how about how the crowd would feel or anything like that. And so I think we were both just so overcome and overwhelmed with emotion. Yeah, it was just unreal.
Nathan Bush: So good. And as a result of that, has it opened up any more doors, opportunities that you weren't expecting?
Emma Clegg: Definitely. I think just as Melissa, the response from people and so many people within the fashion industry that have come to us and said, that was the most amazing show like, I've seen. You know, it was so nice to feel. To feel like it was a really welcoming and inclusive environment and that they just hadn't considered that before and that, you know, they want to know more and they want to buy our products and this kind of thing. I think it's just really opened up the conversation about inclusive clothing and adaptive clothing to a huge proportion of the audience that would never have experienced that before had that understanding. So we've had a lot of emails, a lot of messages or conversations with people that I don't think would have ever come across our brand otherwise.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, no, that's brilliant. And just to finish off Jack and Maddie, do they have a full wardrobe for Life now of Jam, the label?
Molly Rogers: Exactly. Free products for life. And I still see Jack quite frequently, and I'm always like, I talked about you today. And he just. Yeah, he's so stoked because he, yeah, loves it. Absolutely loves it, which is good.
Nathan Bush: Loved hearing your story today. And obviously, we are just at the beginning and it's so exciting to see the inroads that you're making and the difference you're making in people's lives. What do you prioritize next for yourselves and Jam the label?
Emma Clegg: Yeah. So, as I said at the start, we're going to hire a fashion designer for Jam, which is really exciting. So we're finally going to expand the team because for the last three years, it's literally just been us two doing every single thing, which has been amazing and a lot of learning. But we know to grow, we need to be able to get experts into those positions. So we're going to be putting out a job, hopefully in the next fortnight, looking for a designer with disability to come on board. So someone that can obviously bring that knowledge but also that lived experience, which is really important. And yeah, really just expanding our product range is a huge priority for us. You know, it's not only do we want to, you know, have more funky options that reflect Dan's personality, but we also think it's really important that people with disability have as much sort of choice and options as the consumer that doesn't have a disability. So, yeah, we're really going to be expanding our product range. Being more fashion forward and showing. Yeah. Jan's unique style with. Yeah. Hiring a designer with disabilities.
Nathan Bush: That's so good. Let's do a little job ad right here. Em will kill me because our bread and butter, but let's do it here. So what are we looking for? Where are we based? What kind of hours, what kind of skillset do you want them to come from? Just in case they're listening?
Molly Rogers: Yeah. So we are thinking at the moment probably part time. We're based in Melbourne and we're looking for someone as obviously we do not come from a fashion background. So we're looking for someone ideally with sort of a few years experience under their belt, someone that can sort of help to shape Jam and sort of, yeah, take the reins a little bit on that side of things.
Emma Clegg: Be a bit of an all rounder, you know, be able to help us from like the concept to the finished product and really. Yeah, be involved in the whole processes of product creation.
Nathan Bush: What an exciting opportunity.
Emma Clegg: Yeah.
Molly Rogers: They've got to work collaboratively with us, which depends who it is.
Nathan Bush: We've worked together for 40 minutes at the moment. Pretty good so far. All right. And the best way for anyone who's getting in touch, whether that be applying for a position or just reaching out to see if they can help or
Emma Clegg: spread the word, would either be our email helloandlabel.com or our Instagram amthelabel and just send us a DM and we'll be on top of it.
Nathan Bush: How good.
Nathan Bush: Emma and Molly, congratulations on everything you've achieved so far. I can't wait to hopefully check back in and see how far further it's gone. And well done. You're a shining light. So thank you for joining us today.
Emma Clegg: Thank you so much.
Molly Rogers: Thanks for having us.
Nathan Bush: Now, if you are inspired by that chat, as promised, add to cart. Listeners can get 10% off store wide at Jam the label by using the code add to cart or one word add to cart at the checkout on jamthelabel.com go check it out some really cool stuff on there now. As well as evolving my entire world
Nathan Bush: view on accessibility, here are three big
Nathan Bush: takeaways from today's chat with Molly and Emma. Number one Do a quick website accessibility test. It won't take long for you and it'll mean the world. For those with accessibility issues trying to do business with you, take a look at tools such as accessibility, which Molly and Emma both mention and enables you to increase text size and cursors, amongst other features. It will probably take you less than an hour to understand the edge areas
Nathan Bush: that you can make improvements.
Nathan Bush: Number two Design for what's right in front of you. Molly and Emma weren't fashion designers, but they saw Jack and Maddie who had a problem that they dealt with every day that they felt they could solve even if they didn't have the experience to do it all by themselves. We all probably have tens of business opportunities around us every day if we just look at it and think of the solutions that we can build. Number three, we've got to speak up for accessibility. You don't have to be an expert on disability to help facilitate inclusion and improve the experience. For the one in five Aussies who have a disability, individuals are experts on their own challenges. So whether it's a photo shoot, a meeting or anything else where we're dealing day to day with people who may have accessibility issues, just ask them what they need. No need to feel awkward if your intentions are good. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
