Andy Lee: We took one each and then we sold them to our friends and mates in the gym and basically from there they turned around and said, this is awesome. What else can you guys get? We're big believers on sort of serving first and understanding and being empathetic to that community. It's sort of just leaning into that flow state and going with it. Because when you're hot, you're hot and you don't really want to stop.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and Director at e commerce talent agency E Suite. Now, have you done your workout of the day today, this week, ever? Don't worry, for the next 45 minutes or so I have you covered. Today I have a chat with Andy Lee, co founder of the WAD Life WOD Workout of the Day. The WOD Life is the home of training, looking after athletes, gym goers and little battlers like me who just give it their best as they sweat and they strive to be better. Starting with a very humble order of 30 skipping ropes imported from the US the Wodlife now ship all over the world carrying leading brands such as Nike, Reebok and Under Armour as well as their own range of the Wodlife workout gear. In this chat we cover how Andy and his co founder Ben bootstrapped the Wodlife from a personal credit card. Right from the start we uncover the art of building an authentic community, how to develop strong relationships with wholesale partners, how pre orders saved their business and why Andy dives into the deep dark depths of Reddit as part of his customer research. Some scary stuff to find in there. We are super excited about our very first Add to Cart Live that's coming up this Thursday night in Brisbane, brought to you by Convert Digital. It's going to be an awesome night of great food, good catch ups and a conversation that I can't wait for with Ethan Didiscolle, co founder of July the luggage company. If you can't make it, we're going
Nathan Bush: to be recording it as a very
Nathan Bush: special extra episode and releasing it on Wednesday the following week.
Nathan Bush: Super excited about that one.
Nathan Bush: All right, so thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio here's our conversation with Andy Lee, co founder of the WodLife.
Nathan Bush: Andy, welcome to Add to Cart.
Andy Lee: Good to be here, Nate. Thanks for having me.
Nathan Bush: No worries. Now you are the founder of the WAD Life, wod for those who aren't WAD fanatics. Can you explain what the WOD Life is?
Andy Lee: Yeah, good question. To kick it off. What now? That means workout of the day. Pretty common question that we get. What started out from inside the CrossFit gym or in the gym, you'd walk in every day and your workout would be up there on the whiteboard. So we were the guys, we came in excited for what the workout was. We'd always think about it the night before and then as soon as you saw it there on the whiteboard, it could either make or break your day. So the wildlife is the business around the lifestyle of working out and training.
Nathan Bush: Great. And are you still doing the workout of the day?
Andy Lee: My workouts have definitely changed over the last 10 years. When I first started, it was how many workouts could I get in and how hard could I sort of punish myself? But the one thing I've learned, it's balance. So there are days where, you know it's 100%, but then there's other days where you work on skill or strength. So I'm not necessarily a person that likes to hold back. So that's one thing that I've had to learn, especially over the last 10 years.
Nathan Bush: Great stuff. So let's talk about how did you turn this whiteboard with workout of the Day into the business that is now the WOD life?
Andy Lee: Yeah, it's definitely been a journey. And back in the early 2010s, myself and co founder Ben were just, as you said, two guys going in the gym and working out. And what we were finding was that there was a lot of gear and product that you actually needed to make sure that you could keep coming in the gym every day and keep making sure that you were 100% to be able to do what you love. So we found it quite hard to find that product. I mean, obviously gyms had the gear, but one example was quite often when there was double unders, which is sort of furious, skipping in the workout.
Nathan Bush: I still can't do them.
Andy Lee: It's a skill. It's definitely a skill to learn. But we were, okay, guys, go over to the wall and grab a rope. So you'd go over to the wall and there would be, you know, 20 jump ropes hanging there, tangled, twisted, different heights, and it was just a Bad experience. So you could never really get a rope that suited you. It was always a bit of a mixed bag and it could really make or break you. So the rope was the one thing that sort of started it for us. We wanted to try and get this super fast jump rope which was actually only available in the us. So we reached out to the company there because they didn't ship to Australia. And we said, hey, can you firstly ship to Australia wanting to buy this rope? And I said look, no we don't and we can't, we won't. Said well why not? And they said look, it's just too, just too hard. So they basically said look, I wouldn't take no for an answer. And they finally said, look, if you set up a wholesale account, we'll sell you the ropes. So we said, okay, how many do we need to buy for wholesale? They said 30. And we said, Geez, 30? We only really need two, so what are we going to do with the other 28? But we wanted these ropes so badly that we just said, look, you know what, we'll take 30 and we'll figure it out. So for two guys in professional jobs just wanting a jump rope each, we bought the 30, we got one each, we brought it back to our respective gyms. I was in Melbourne at the time and Ben, my co founder, was in Adelaide. We split the ropes 15, 15, we took one each and then we sold them to our friends and mates in the gym. And basically from there they turned around and said, this is awesome. What else can you guys get? So it was the one sort of product that started it. We had a niche, we wanted to scratch it. We wanted to get access to this product that in Australia definitely wasn't available at the time. And it all really spawned from there. Before you know it, people were asking us to get all these this weird, wonderful things to help them with their daily workouts. And then that's how the wildlife started. But it was never supposed to be a business. It was just two guys wanting to get access to some products.
Nathan Bush: And what were you doing professionally at that point?
Andy Lee: Yeah, I was working in corporate finance, so I'd studied far too much. I was working in an office, suit and tie, to work every day or train in the morning or train at night. My body held up and then I was actually getting some products delivered into my office and I remember the secretary, what are you doing? What's this delivery again? And it was just basically buying stuff for the guys and girls at the gym. And before you knew it we felt like we were onto something there. So we quickly sort of mocked up a logo. We went on, I think it was elance at the time and we didn't have any money. We were like look, we just need a bit of a logo. Did some research, found out that we could pop up a Shopify store, got some help to set that up, logo, name, and before you know it we had a little Shopify store and we were off and running. So we were both sort of working professional jobs. This is like our moonlighting that we were doing after and before work and people just kept asking us well what else can you get? What else can you get? And it's all gone from there sort of 10 years on.
Nathan Bush: And have you gone back to that wholesaler where you originally bought the 30 ropes from and like done bigger orders since then?
Andy Lee: Yeah, the orders definitely have gotten larger and larger. We still work with them today, which is super cool. And we thank them for not shipping to Australia and making us set up a wholesale account because I don't think any of this would have been true if that wasn't the case. But had a bit of a pilgrimage to meet them over in the US and we just had a massive laugh about it. Both our businesses have grown since that sort of day one. They were pretty small at the time as well. And both our businesses and the industry's definitely grown, let alone E commerce.
Nathan Bush: Ever scrolled through an E Commerce packaging website for fun? Nah, me neither.
Nathan Bush: Until today.
Nathan Bush: Paclio is putting the joy into the packaging game. So let's play again. I'll tell you the name of the Paclio product and you have to try and guess what kind of product they are. Fairy Floss Compostable Mailer. Queen Bee Honeycomb Padded mailer.
Andy Lee: Here we go.
Nathan Bush: Gummy Shark Water activated tape. Now if my jaded self thinks that this packaging is fun, imagine what your customers will think. Paclio is also eco friendly. Australian owned and operated with same day dispatch and 14 day returns. Now that's pure joy for everyone. Check out the Paclio range of E Commerce packaging options@paclio.com that's Paclio P A C K L E O paclio.com.
Nathan Bush: And I understand that you've bootstrapped the wildlife right from the start. Is that still the case?
Andy Lee: Yes. So we started off the back of the credit card. It was my personal credit card at the time. I think the first order for those 30 ropes was about a thousand US dollars. We didn't have that kind of money lying around. We didn't set Up a business plan. We didn't walk into the bank wanting startup capital. We didn't go to VCs or PE with anything. We just basically ran off the back of my credit card was about $10,000 at the time.
Nathan Bush: Everything a finance guy shouldn't do.
Andy Lee: Absolutely. So everything that I studied far too much basically went against that. Never sign a personal guarantee. I couldn't tell you how many of those I've signed and still sign. So yeah, we started off the back of the credit card and we bought those ropes, we sold them to our friends. I think we got one each. Basically that was our profit. And then we would buy two of things, we would sell two and then buy four and then, and then so on and so on. So it was almost like we set up a supermarket with things on the shelf, but there was only one of everything on the shelf. And then as soon as we sold that one, we quickly turned around and bought two. So the shelves slowly but surely got stacked up and our range expanded.
Nathan Bush: And where did you get that early traction from? Was it from your gym communities?
Andy Lee: Yeah, it was very early days, word of mouth, community. So because we were so entrenched in going to the gym and because it was a need that other people had, it really resonated and we were sort of community first and people first, which was our ethos at the time. We wanted to basically create a space or a community that like minded people could come together. Yes, the product was something that we did, but we also wanted a forum where people could communicate, they could share workouts, they could learn how to do these lists together. We wanted them to know what sort of nutrition they needed. So really we were learning ourselves and we were super passionate about it and we just wanted to bring that all together under one sort of roof. So we were entrenched in the community, we knew a lot of gym owners, we went to gyms and it really spawned out from that word of mouth. Hey, have you heard about these guys? There's a story that when we first set up our Shopify store, our first order was from a guy in Tasmania. And I'd never been to Tasmania, didn't know anyone in Tasmania, but we got an order from there. So that for us we go, wow, I think we're onto something here. I rang Ben, my co founder, said, mate, do you know this guy, Nicholas Corkill was his name. And to this day, yeah, we just couldn't believe it that you can set up a store, especially early days, you can plug Facebook in. And back when it actually reached your audience. There was no throttling there. So we definitely knew that there was something there. And it really had that wildfire effect through word of mouth and grew from there, which was super cool.
Nathan Bush: It feels like there's a lot of similarities between your story and Danny and Alex at Kulani Kinis. Have you come across them?
Andy Lee: I haven't, I haven't. But it's a pretty cool story that yeah, definitely resonates and it's almost like a full circle in that E commerce and businesses really coming back to that word of mouth community focus.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Even down to like the little details. He was a finance guy in corporate who got product delivered into his office as well. Like it's just eerie some of the stuff you're saying there. So it's really cool.
Nathan Bush: So one thing that strikes me is
Nathan Bush: that over those 10 years there's been. You're kind of writing a couple of trends here. You're riding different fitness trends, trends over that time. CrossFit kind of coming up and down. Introducing F45. Long distance running has its moments like seems to be a really trend driven industry. And then you've got E commerce who is just trending all over the place, especially over the last couple of years. How have you managed to keep a regular even from a stock perspective, budgeting and a projections perspective. How do you keep on top of all that when you've got so many different trends in play?
Andy Lee: Yeah, it's a challenging, challenging mix and a challenging question. I mean we, when we first started the business, we were definitely long on E commerce. We were two guys just trying to remove the friction that there was to get access to product and then the experience there was in getting it into your hands. So we actually sat down and sort of said everything that we hate from buying experiences and going to the shops and even website experiences. We basically started a list and that's what we wanted to create. The opposite of. So really clean website, white background, clear every. All the information there. Ensuring that the product stood the test of time. We were in the gym testing it ourselves. So we were super passionate about it and we knew that if we addressed the things that we didn't like, the things that we liked that would really resonate. That was back in early 2013. And we definitely did the research, sort of being an analytical guy, making sure that we chose the right platform. And there was platforms like BigCommerce or WooCommerce. Some other names that I won't mention but definitely send shivers down the spine. But we were lucky enough to jump on Shopify. And we feel like we backed the right horse there. That platform's obviously scaled significantly and gone into amazing heights, but we were on there early and we were able to sort of ride the technological wave there. We were build a business winners, I think, back in 2013, 2014. So that was really the moment that validated for us, just two guys toiling away at the stage. We were in a bedroom, Ben was shipping everything out and we were sort of moonlighting. So that, for us meant that we were onto something there. So that was really cool. And then I spent five years in the us, so the us being the epicenter for fitness, was able to identify a lot of those products, like the jump rope in the US that could be shared really, back to Australia, that would really resonate. Get onto these sort of trends early. The fact that I was in the gyms and I was going to events and meeting with companies, I would always say, hey, I'm Andy from the Wildlife. This is what we do. I'd love to come and meet you. And they said, what? You're all the way in Australia? And I said, yeah, look, but that's the price I'm willing to pay to get to know you and build relationship with you and partner. So I'd get in the car and sort of drive down the road and then meet them, but they'd think I'd come over all the way from Australia. So we were able to establish those relationships early and get the product in front of people. That's always really been our sort of superpower and skill, is knowing what products are cool, trending and are going to add value to our audience and then trying to present that in a way that makes sense. So we love that we're passionate about product and where there hasn't been product available or to the specs that we like, we've tried to create that. So it's definitely a journey. And staying on top of that, going from one product in a jump rope to basically a platform known as the home of training, with thousands of products from hundreds of different vendors, it's definitely challenging. And especially early days with that bootstrapped and the working capital challenges, keeping things in stock was always super difficult. The divine was there, but just making sure that the shelves were stocked, even the original bedroom into a warehouse just exploding and us not having enough space to put everything so we would order, order, order was just in time to the absolute max to make sure that we had everything in there. But that made us ensure that we picked the right products and that we were cautious with the money that we spent and how we went about it.
Nathan Bush: And today you've got a mixture of really reputable brands such as the Nikes and the Reeboks, as well as your own range of the Wildlife branded gear. How do you find, do you find that customers experience the wildlife differently? Do they come in via the branded product and then discover the wildlife or is it the other way around?
Andy Lee: Yeah, good question. It's a bit of both, to be honest. I think if we ever thought that we'd be working with brands like Nike and Adidas and Reebok, you know, really, that's one of the things we're super proud of and we feel like we've built a brand and a business and a platform that really has that gravity around it. So we're super grateful and really enjoy our partnerships working with these big brands. And really we want to be a tastemaker for everything in the industry. And as I said before, we try and get the best brands and the best products on the market in and deliver that to our customers. And then where we don't have those products, we really try and craft and complement those products with our own branded products from the Wildlife, or TWL as we're known now. So, yeah, it's a really good complement. I know that a lot of the brands find it challenging to access the core training market because when you look at Nike and the billion dollar company that they are, same with Adidas and Reebok, they're talking to everyone. So for them to be able to communicate directly to the training community, to the fitness fanatics, it's definitely challenging. So we really work together with them to craft the message that's unique to that training consumer. And then we really try and work with them to echo their brand message and to really ensure that's validated within their training community. So that's one of the things that we really enjoy doing and that really elevates what we do. So love working with those brands, but we also love creating products of our own that our community definitely identifies with and loves to represent.
Nathan Bush: And it sounds like you've got great relationships with those big brands. We've recently seen probably in the last 18 months, those big brands, especially Nike, make a big push towards being more direct to consumer and cut out some of their retailers. Has that led to some tricky conversations for you?
Andy Lee: Yeah, it definitely gets back to that relationship standpoint and knowing your lane and where you're running. I think where we've seen those relationships drop off Big box retailers, big general retailers, which I know Nike feels that they can fill that order pretty easily. They're the real big volume plays. But where we're different is that where a specialty training retailer, there aren't too many. I can sort of count them on. On one hand, definitely in Australia, who that is. And that's really how we're different and how we try and work together with these brands such as Nike, and really elevate that. As I touched on earlier, we've got direct lines into the community and involved with events and athletes, and we do activations and product launches that these brands aren't necessarily able to do. And they're sort of product that aren't retailed in too many places. So we understand that we're not trying to be something that we're not. We're super passionate about the training market and the training consumer, and that's something that we really focus on. And we also try and understand where the gaps are with the brands and how we can really help serve them in that respect. And over the years, the past four or five years, we've been really working with these brands that continues to grow year after year. And there's also more brands looking to come into the training training category. Initially it was Reebok. They were sort of the first mover into training and their partnership with CrossFit, Nike came in and sort of disrupted the space. And since then, there have been other brands. You've got emerging brands such as Noble, but also, you know, really strong fitness and training brands such as Adidas and Puma are trying to make waves as well. So we find that training is always going to be there and the brands are definitely getting more and more involved in those markets.
Nathan Bush: And I love your take on community here because obviously community from an E commerce perspective is very much around building customer loyalty and engagement. That's kind of a given. But it feels like what you've described there is that you've captured a community and engaged in a community that's now a business asset as well. So that when you're talking to the Nike, you've got like almost access to eyeballs and ears and mouth that no one else has. What tips do you have for brands looking to build a really authentic and deep connection into communities? Is there anything that's worked particularly well for you?
Andy Lee: Yeah, it's funny because now everything that you read or listen to, whether it's on a podcast or audiobook, it always talks about building a community. And for us, it was just natural that we understood who our customer was that we wanted to serve. But again, even before that we just wanted to create a space where people could come together and share the knowledge and information and then the products that came after that because we were looking to access that ourselves. So we think it's important now to identify who that community is that you want to serve, how you're looking to serve them. And we're big believers on sort of serving first and understanding and being empathetic to that community, what they need and how that can be best facilitated and then the product and the business can come thereafter. Now with big players like Amazon who basically offer their everything store as they're affectionately known, I'm a big believer in that you can't necessarily compete with them. So what can you do differently? It's around that sort of blue ocean strategy for who's your customer, what is your community and how can you best serve them. There's a lot of listening that needs to take place before you do tell your community what you need. It's better to listen. So firstly, understanding where your community is, where they live. For us it's in the gym. So we're highly involved in the gym. Having been going to gyms constantly. I'm always used to love traveling and dropping into gyms and picking up a T shirt, speaking to the coach and learning more about it. Being involved there was will give you so many good insights as to how you can best serve them, what their pain points are, what they're looking for and how you can really help. So really the wildlife's been built off that intimate knowledge of the training community that the fitness fanatics who are in there, you know, we walk the walk and we talk the talk with them. We know how important it is to train hard and what products need to help support that. And then you know what your diet needs to look like ideally, but then also, you know, enjoying a cheat meal and some time off. We definitely appreciate that as well.
Nathan Bush: And it sounds like when you talk about listening to community and listening to your customers, yours sounds very much feet on the ground, one on one time with people in the gyms. Have you found any ways to get that voice of customer at a scale level where it actually adds value to the business as well?
Andy Lee: Yeah, for sure, I think. Product feedback, product reviews, we love to get our customers and their take on our product. So we undertake gear testing where we see product and get customer feedback on that. That's been really valuable. That allows us to iterate on our product to make sure it gets Better and better and better. That's been awesome. Things like Facebook, Facebook groups that they've really emerged really strongly and there you can really facilitate that community to go super nerdy. I always enjoy diving into a bit of Reddit. That's really where you find the super nerds within your community. They will tell you what they think, tell you what necessarily you don't want to hear. They'll be unabashedly honest, which is what you need. You don't need people to just tell you what you want to hear. You need to know the real story.
Nathan Bush: What are the Reddit subs that you monitor or take part in?
Andy Lee: CrossFit. Reddit is great. Garage gyms is always a bit of fun. Weight lifting that's quite enjoyable if you really want to go in there. Paleo diet was an early one. Just learning about how people and their nutrition is, is evolving. So.
Nathan Bush: And do you out yourself on Reddit as Andy, the founder of the Wildlife, or do you lurk?
Andy Lee: A bit of both. A bit of both. Longtime listener, first time caller I think is important there. But no, look, I definitely try and get involved in discussions myself and Ben, my co founder. We're actively involved. We're founders that work day to day on the business. We try and drive it forward. We've been involved since day one and we aren't necessarily out in lights, but we do like to communicate with our audience, be a part of the discussion because that's super important. That's how we learn and also building that authenticity. While we do have a brand and a business behind it, we're real people that are involved. We're real people with similar needs and products that we're just trying to help support our training and other people's training as well. So I think as you get bigger, it's still important to remain true and authentic as the essence of your business. And I think people really resonate with that when they know your story and how you go about it and who's involved. I think they can feel more of a connection. And that's really how we've seen the transition from big brands and labels into community driven brands and platforms. Is knowing the people behind it is really key.
Nathan Bush: And that's always stuck out to me about your LinkedIn is like every time I look at what you're doing on LinkedIn, I like Andy, you are right in that community. Like this isn't a business. And then there's Andy, it's like you are wardlife. Like you're in there doing it. I'm shamelessly BFT member now. So I'm on the body fit training circuit and loving it.
Andy Lee: How are you enjoying it?
Nathan Bush: Oh, so good. I die by the end of it. Like every. It's my routine. Six o' clock every morning is like in there and get it done.
Andy Lee: Love it, love it.
Nathan Bush: And it's a great way of training and like it. You realize how strong that community is. I never understood it until I was in there.
Andy Lee: Yeah, there's something weird about working out with someone and sort of sweating next to them, isn't it? And going through that workout, I think that's something that really galvanizes people. It's a bit different to going to the gym by yourself, which we still definitely support. That gym goer who's dedicated enough to go by themselves. But really those, whether it be BFT Rebel F45 while you're in a CrossFit gym, whatever it might be, that community of where you're working out with people trying to achieve, trying to get their personal best in there and become better versions of themselves, that's energetic. You feed off that and even the high fives of people on the ground afterwards. Some people hate a high five, but
Nathan Bush: I love fist bump kind of guy.
Andy Lee: Yeah, fist bump, fist bump. You know, some people want to quietly sort of die in the corner, but that sort of fist bump high five after the workout, there's nothing like it. The fact that you've toiled through, you know, 45 or 60 minute workout, you're sweating, you didn't think you'd make it. But there's people next year doing the same thing. There's something really powerful about that and we love it. We're not fixated on how people train. Anyone that trains, we love to hear it.
Nathan Bush: Hey, hey, hey. Black Friday, it's on the 25th of
Nathan Bush: November this year and that's months away,
Nathan Bush: I hear you say. Well, hold tight, superstar. Our friends at Shopify are here to remind you that it always sneaks up faster than you expect. Every freaking year. In fact, most medium to large Shopify merchants plan their Black Friday three to four months in advance. I mean, that's today or yesterday. Better get to it. Hey, luckily Shopify is here to support you. Head on over to shopify.com au bfcm to access a bunch of tools, research and ideas to make your Black Friday smooth and successful. That's shopify.com so what are you waiting for? Actually listen to the rest of this app and then get your little scrolling fingers over there.
Nathan Bush: We're going to save the link for
Nathan Bush: you in the show notes,
Nathan Bush: I think you've done such a great job of capturing that on your social. So since falling into this, I won't call it a lifestyle because it's just part of it, but it's like I love following the wildlife across everything, but especially TikTok. For me, your TikTok is so engaging because it's informative and helpful as well. It's not just aspirational. So my question is to you is when you've got such a tight knit community, you do a lot of sponsorships of events and athletes, how do you choose who you sponsor and where you sponsor? Because you obviously can't do everything right.
Andy Lee: Yeah, you can't. And that's the one thing that is hard because we love to do that, we love to support it, but we just can't be everywhere. I know when we first started we were at every single event. We throw stuff in Ben's car, get a table set up and we would be there. But now it's how can we be the most impactful and touch the most amount of people when we do it? So anything that we put our name behind, we try and do it in a really world class way. So we're super grateful to be involved and partners with some larger fitness events, whether that's the Tauren Pro in Brisbane, which Jono and Mike shout out to those guys who've created an amazing event which started in their gym and now it's at the Pat Rafter Tennis arena in Brisbane and getting world class athletes there. I mean, it's amazing to see these guys grow and their event grow and it's cool to be on that journey with them and that's really where we try and touch the most amount of people in the most meaningful way and to even be there. I know Ben loves to be at the stand and meet as many punters as he can. You know, kiss babies and shake hands is definitely his thing. But it allows us to get in there and to meet the people that through E commerce, it's quite hard to do because you're obviously facilitating a digital transaction, but there's still a real person and a community behind that. So we love to get out at events and to sponsor and support as much as what we can and do it in a really meaningful way. When you're a bigger business and a bigger brand, yeah, it's hard to do everything, but we try and have that offline experience and partner with events which help us elevate the brand and elevate that experience that we can be associated with. So it's a ton of work, but a ton of fun as well. And I think it's a nice balance from that E Commerce to have some offline activation in real life. We definitely enjoy it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And one of your core values that I read on your website is the impossible is possible. Something that you guys live by. When we're talking about what you've built with E Commerce, obviously not coming from an E commerce background and building it from the ground over the last 10 years into a big business leaders in this space. What was the thing that you thought was most impossible that you're most proud that you've turned possible?
Andy Lee: Yeah, thanks for asking this question. In thinking about it, it's probably given me the ability to sort of stop and smell the roses a little bit. Quite often when you're so driven and trying to create something that's big and meaningful, you forget these small moments along the way which you've been able to achieve some pretty cool things. So look, I think the story of starting from one jump rope off the back of a credit card today is pretty wild. As I said, we haven't had massive rounds of funding or venture capital there. To start off with a credit card over 10 years, to put in sweat and graft and to work with some pretty amazing people, which definitely doesn't go unnoticed along the way to achieve what we have is absolutely amazing. Of course there'd be moments along the way which you just sort of go, wow, how are we going to get out of this? But you find a way. Whether that's obviously with the pandemic, that was pretty crazy. There was one moment where we didn't have anything to sell. We didn't have any equipment or any product people wanting to buy thanks for their home gym. So we basically placed an order, six figure order for some equipment with a supplier. We didn't have any money, that was all tied up in shoes and activewear. So we turned around to the bank and we said, hey, are we able to get a loan for this? And they said, yeah, sure, no worries. There's a government backed loan that can support that. You'll be in your account on Monday. We'll do the paperwork, no worries. So we went, okay, no sweat, let's place the order with the supplier there. And to this day we still never received that money from the bank. But what we were able to do was basically put the product up online and sell it before it got here. So we're able to do a pre order which is Ben's masterstroke there. And I don't think we would have been able to do that. And people wouldn't necessarily believe we'd be able to fulfill the order if we had and built the business over that sort of seven, eight years at the time. So there was a lot of hairy moments there, but that was one where we were like, okay, we can either sort of sit and wait and hope this thing blows over, or we can kind of throw caution to the wind here and try and fight fire to fire. And that was really one moment which we took a big swing and it paid off and we were able to sort of trade through that period. So, yeah, that's just one moment where we're able to sort of look back and go, wow, you know, that, that was pretty wild, but really, really cool to come through that. And we definitely came through stronger.
Nathan Bush: Is pre order still part of your business?
Andy Lee: There is a bit of that, yeah. Yeah. Well, we've got sort of highly sought after product or highly anticipated product with short supply. There is a bit of that. So similar to the sneaker sneaker phase there, you know, Sneaker wars is definitely a thing and people are trying to get access to limited supply. One of the cool things that we do and where we're differentiated is in our limited edition ranges. So we understand that training can be really serious. Trying to get better and going into the gym and sweating like it's hard. And sometimes you can take it so seriously that you lose why you're doing it and why you're having fun. So our limited editions are one example where, you know, we have fun. They're not your core black product that everyone has. They're sort of fun designs. Whether they're collaborations with athletes or art artists or some big franchises, we try and bring a bit of fun there. They're highly sought after. They sell out super quick. So they're ones where, yeah, there's definitely a bit of pre order there because there's a lot of people who are upset that they miss out. So that's one of the fun things we do around the brand that has that sort of gravity around it as well.
Nathan Bush: It was so funny when I opened up your website recently in research for this, I saw your limited edition collections and for anyone who hasn't seen them, they're really bright, really colorful. Colorful, really fun like you've just described, Andy. And it gave me this little pang because about eight years ago I did this little experiment with some friends called Running Duds. So it was a brand where we just made colorful short running shorts and it was an amazing experience. We only sold like 50 grands worth of them but it was an amazing experience because I felt like it connected everyone on the running track. So everyone would spot them straight away and go, oh, you're a dudter. And I can imagine it's the same for your community. People can spot your product and have that instant connection.
Andy Lee: Absolutely. Even down to my mum going to the supermarket and seeing some people with the shorts on and then tapping them on their shoulder and talking to them. That's for me, you know, the real defining sort of moment there. It's about differentiating yourself and how you can really bring something into the market that isn't the same as everyone else. We understand that most people, and most days of the week you don't want to wear black or blue or gray, that's completely fine. But also you can have a bit of fun with it as well and it's a chance to express your sort of personality there and what you like. And yeah, it's absolutely a talking point. I'm sure if you walked into lots of gyms around Australia and around the world and you see those shorts, it's immediate talking point and you can strike up a conversation like they're a long lost friend.
Nathan Bush: One of the themes that I've noticed you talk about throughout our conversation, which has been really interesting to me, is the word balance. I think you've said it three or four times throughout and obviously there's a whole lot of balance here. When you're trying to keep that lifestyle going, you're running a business, you're employing people, family, everything else. What are some of the habits that you do in your life that you never miss to make sure that you maintain that balance?
Andy Lee: Yes, definitely do as I say, not as I do. For me there's probably two ways to think about that. One is get balance. Or I think one of my old bosses actually handed me a book called the Corporate Athlete and it was a concept around not necessarily balance, but understanding flows as well. And when you're hot and you're in the flow, go with it, lean into it. But then also understanding when you need a bit of a break, put your hand up and take some time out. So I probably move from that balance to that flow state. I feel that I'm best there. It's not necessarily for everyone but when I'm in the zone I don't really want to stop. I just go, go, go. But then also there's times where I Need to just take a bit of a break. But having said that, obviously working out and training is a key part of my DNA and also the business's DNA there. So still train as much as I can, as much as my body can. So every day, I would say five, six days a week, I try and get in every day there. I might allow myself a day or two off, but if I'm not necessarily training in the gym, I'm still trying to do something active, move around, whether that's, you know, go for a ride or a run or a walk. Definitely try and balance that out there. That's sort of my time. And that, for me, strikes that balance. I know that if, you know, if I've had a tough day in the office, working through a challenge, I know that I can head into the gym and sweat it out. And it's funny what that does. I feel so much better after. Whether it's that running or that training high, that's definitely something for me that works well. I think we always thought starting this business would be training a lot more than we're working, but we find ourselves working a lot more than we're training, but still up to train. And I think one of the benefits of set up a gym at home, which is super cool, and that allows me to train sort of when I'm. I'm feeling it and when I need it as well. So whether that's in the morning or at night, try not to miss it. I definitely know the days where I haven't trained, so definitely try and fit that in.
Nathan Bush: I love that concept of flow, though, is hitting it when you are feeling it, not forcing yourself through a habit when you're not feeling it.
Andy Lee: Absolutely. I mean, there's, there's always going to be non negotiables understand that, but it's sort of just leaning into that flow state and going with it. Because when you're hot, you're hot and you don't really want to stop.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Now you're based in beautiful Adelaide, we don't get too many guests from Adelaide. What's the E Comm scene like in Adelaide?
Andy Lee: Yeah, I think it punches above its weight there. I think people from Adelaide are quite understated and humble and having lived internationally, definitely, definitely feel that compared with people from the us, they'll tell you everything about themselves, whereas people from Adelaide are probably a bit reserved. Yeah. There's a bunch of ECOM retailers in Adelaide that I keep in touch with and, and share learnings and knowledge, which is super cool. There's a real core group there and yeah, they definitely go unnoticed. But having been away from Adelaide for quite some time and then coming back in the last few years, it was probably challenging to find those people initially. But definitely make it an effort to keep in touch with people here and to learn. I think the biggest thing with Australia is a little bit around that tall poppy syndrome. I mean, people don't want to tell you what they're doing or share too much just in case. But I'm a big believer in raising tides rises or boats. So definitely try and share and collaborate where possible, but at the same time as well. The beauty of the Internet is that we can just be in touch with as many people around the world at any one time, which can be overwhelming. But there's nothing like that sort of in person physical contact, whether it's a coffee or a beer.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Andy Lee: Or a workout.
Nathan Bush: Or a workout. And nothing like getting to know people over a bit of sweat, is there?
Andy Lee: Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: And I love just seeing how many opportunities you're giving people in the local area as well. Constantly look like you're on a bit of a hiring spree.
Andy Lee: Yeah, absolutely. That's one thing that we've really tried to double down on is creating opportunities for people in Adelaide and in Australia around E commerce. We're big believers if that. We create something and we want people to feel like they can be a part of it. There's not a lot of these opportunities around. So we definitely try and identify that and bring people in and give them a pathway to learn. It's not necessarily going to be easy when you're sort of performance driven and trying to build something great. But we would be nothing without our people. And that's one thing when we look back on it is the people that we've had the opportunity to work with. And now the team that we've got is the best it's ever been. You know, just having that team there work together with us on sort of disrupting sports, retail and building something really great in E commerce and developing the communities is super cool. We don't often get to stop and smell the roses, but that's one thing that I know Ben and I are super proud of is that team and seeing what they achieve not only individually but collectively. And when they start work with us and if they go and work elsewhere, the experiences that they've had with us definitely elevate them in their careers and then we hope that they become better people as well throughout the process.
Nathan Bush: Oh, that's really satisfying. That's a big payoff, right?
Andy Lee: Absolutely, yeah.
Nathan Bush: So, Andy, really brilliant to hear about the story so far. What's next on the radar for yourself and the wildlife?
Andy Lee: Yeah, the wildlife is just looking to continue to grow. We believe that people train all different ways, whether that's in the CrossFit, GM, BFT, Revel, whether they're running, riding or whatever they're looking to do. We really want to just support however they like to train. Training and where they train will always sort of come and go. But we really want to be that mainstay there, that one stop shop for people who train. So we're continuing to work with the best brands on the planet to bring the best products in there to help people stay motivated and to continue to train and to discover what they're capable of. And that's really what we're in there every day trying to get better at.
Nathan Bush: I've got no doubt that I'm hoping, if you're listening to this, running on a treadmill or in the gym, listening to this conversation, I hope it's motivating for you and it was really inspirational for me. I love hearing your story. Thank you very much. What's the best way for people to get in touch if they've listened to this and went, I've got to get
Andy Lee: in touch with Andy? Yeah, feel free to get in touch on on LinkedIn. That's probably the professional platform of choice. Feel free to drop me a message there. Get in touch. Always keen to learn and speak with like minded people. So absolutely great stuff.
Nathan Bush: Andy, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cart.
Andy Lee: Thanks for having me, Nate. Really enjoyed it.
Nathan Bush: Now, if that conversation doesn't get you running, lifting, stretching, I can't help you anymore. But let's be honest, this is not a fitness podcast and you can't rely on me for fitsbo inspo so I can do e commerce tips. Here are three that I got from my conversation with Andy. Number one, get on the ground and get dirty. And no, this is not fitness advice or burpee instructions. It's about building a community. Andy gave some great examples of how he and Ben spent time, in his words, shaking hands and kissing babies. They attend events in person, they get real feedback from their audience and they even spent five years on the ground in the US getting to know the community there. They don't outsource community, they built it from the ground up, but it required them getting on the ground and getting dirty to build that community. Number two, lurk on Reddit for real talk, Andy shared how he stayed across Reddit communities such as CrossFit, weightlifting and Paleo Diet to hear what his potential customers were saying and how they were saying it. It's a really great tip if you're looking to immerse yourself instantly into niche
Nathan Bush: communities with real unfiltered talk.
Nathan Bush: Just be prepared for what you might find. And number three, Blue Ocean Strategy. He only mentioned it in passing, but I I feel it was a theme that Andy kept coming back to. Essentially, the concept is that instead of chasing competitors, open up new market areas and opportunities to differentiate yourself in market to keep your customers loyal and your potential competitors at bay. Blue Ocean Strategy is a great book, but you can even get the gist of it from a five minute summary article online. Well worth thinking about how new market markets can open up. Well worth thinking about new markets you can open up rather than chasing existing ones. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and visit us at E Suite. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com, where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
