Kellie Hush: The circus is over. We're not a part of that anymore. You really need to get in line with your partner about where you want the business to go and I think that's probably what our speed hump was. But in terms of the luxury fashion world, that is radical. We'll be the survival of the fittest and you've got to have a gut for it, right?
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of E commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello there and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and E commerce strategist at 12 high. We have a very special episode today. Joining me is Kelly Hush, former editor of Harper's Bazaar and Grazia magazines. Kelly has also recently founded accessories brand the Way and is consulting to fashion icons such as Carla Zampati. In this episode we discuss the opportunities for Australian fashion brands and retailers, particularly in the light of COVID 19. We also discuss things like the most crucial elements for Australian fashion brands to get right, how to best reach the new fashion customer, and whether fashion brands need a physical presence for longevity. Kelly is extremely honest throughout this conversation and has some frank opinions on the future of department stores such as David Jones and Maya, which is well worth sticking around for. So let's get into it. Thanks to our partners Klarna and Shopify. Plus, here's our conversation on the future of Australian fashion with Kelly Hush. Kelly Hush, welcome to Add to cart.
Kellie Hush: Thank you for having me.
Nathan Bush: Pleasure. Now, Kelly, are you doing the same as US in COVID 19 times? Are you walking around the house in pajamas or are you a little bit more sophisticated and stylish than us?
Kellie Hush: To be honest, yes, I am more sophisticated and stylish. You know, Karl Lagerfeld has this famous quote that once you start wearing tracksuit pants, you've given up and I kind of agree with that. So I have very, very nice looking trousers that are comfortable.
Nathan Bush: You're doing better than me. I haven't given up. I haven't given up yet. We are recording this at the end of May. Kind of feels like we're coming out of COVID at the moment. What's your take on where we're at from a fashion industry perspective and how Covid has treated the Australian fashion industry and where we're heading with this.
Kellie Hush: I'm talking to a lot of designers daily at the moment. You know, a lot of them are friends of mine as well. And I'm working on the We Wear Australian campaign as well. So I'm very, very interested to see how they're going. And I think this week especially, they're opening stores again. So they're feeling quite optimistic. I think a lot of designers had a really terrible time, to be honest. They've, you know, they're frightened that they might not emerge from this, and that's the reality. And then there are other businesses that have, that have done okay, and they're feeling optimistic now that that stores will reopen. Some have been clever in that they had things happening within their brand that they could really maximize during this period. I was chatting to Mark Friedman yesterday about Camila and Mark, and they were actually about to launch an athleisure range. And for them it was serendipitous. Right. So. Because everyone was starting to wear leggings and work out at home. So they just went really hard on that and they've seen success with that. And then other brands obviously have started, you know, putting in cocktail dresses, and that's a little bit harder to sell at this stage. But I really hope that the industry survives. And that's why We Wear Australian is so important. Just reminding Australians that if you do have the cash that when you are shopping online or when you, you get back out to department stores and malls, that you think about buying Australian fashion brands first.
Nathan Bush: Yep. Is We Wear Australian? Is that something that was pre Covid?
Kellie Hush: No, no, it actually just. It happened back in April, actually. I was just asked to jump on a call with some industry people that it was kind of a collective getting together. It's like we have to, you know, people started calling each other. They're, you know, the big department stores had started canceling wholesale orders, so they were left with a lot of stock. They could see the writing was on the wall. So we, we got together and we. It was just. It really was a campaign. We'd actually got together post bushfires as well, because a lot of fashion businesses were impacted during that period as well. So we had started talking, you know, back in January, but this was the right time. And it really is, as a collective, we're stronger. And I think sharing knowledge is. Makes us stronger. So there is a call that happens once a week where as many retailers as sometimes there's 150 people on the call that are just sharing knowledge and just how they're Operating, especially with store openings. It was really important to talk about that as a collective. When are you opening? What are you doing, which stores are first? How are you managing your staff? There's so much to discuss at the moment. It's new territory for so many people that I think again, back to that sharing knowledge, you know, being in it as one, as a united industry has really helped.
Nathan Bush: Is that something that's always been around in the Australian fashion industry? Kind of like a collective knowledge and sharing?
Kellie Hush: Sometimes and sometimes not. You know, some people are very protective of, you know, their, their intel, especially when you're moving into international markets. I mean, it's difficult. So if you've done the work, sometimes you're a little bit quiet about how you've done it successfully. But I was, you know, one of the founding directors of the Australian Fashion Council. So we started, we started, you know, five years ago, really trying to bring the industry together and having a body represented, the entire industry where everyone could come. And I think it really started back then that people felt that, you know, for us to really succeed, we've got to work together. We're a small industry, we're a young industry as well, you know, you know, Carla, Zam, Patty just celebrated 55 years this year. But there are not many Australian brands that have, you know, the experience that Carla has. You know, most of us are, you know, 10 or 20 years in and even, you know, Zimmerman, that's just over the 20 year mark. They're just in the last five years started seeing really big international success. So that's a lot of hard work that goes into it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, for sure. And I think some of those, you know, we've obviously got the most recent changes that have affected fashion, you know, the broader industry as well, the bushfires Covid that you talked about. But fashion's kind of had a few hits along the way in Australian fashion. Right. Is that you've had this huge entry of international competition reach our shores and it's totally changed in terms of sourcing range, the whole lot, right?
Kellie Hush: Oh, yeah. You know, with H and M and Topshop, even though Topshop didn't succeed here and Zara and Uniqlo coming into this market, it really has changed the landscape. You know, not only are they dropping clothes constantly, so local retailers now have to keep up with that because there's newness continuously. I mean, some stores, you know, it's, you know, every fortnight at least, you know, sometimes more. So there's that, but there's also obviously that there's A lot of production happening offshore, so that's bringing the prices down. And again, with shopping online, you know, women and guys and kids can shop globally now, you know, I, I shop all over the world. I've just got some shoes from Spain. You know, it's. It's that thing where, you know, the market, it's absolutely a global market now. And again, you know, I love to use Carla as an example because she's been through it all, but when she started out, it was basically she just had the Australian, you know, woman to herself. There was hardly anyone coming into the country even then. The big luxury brands hadn't really arrived here. We had Chanel and Louis Vuitton, you know, here for a while, but really it's only been in the last five years that even all those big international luxury brands have come into the market and are going really hard. When you go to Chadstone in Melbourne and it's a luxury mecca, five years ago, we didn't have Balenciaga and Loewe and Yves St. Laurent. Yves St. Laurent actually opened here about 10 years ago and failed. But they're back here now and it's booming. So, yeah, it's been really interesting. There's been so much change.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And in terms of Australian brands that you've seen come through that navigate that change, who stands out to you in being able to be adaptive?
Kellie Hush: I always use Zimmerman as the kind of the case study. I mean, I know the girls really well. Again, they've been in the business for over two decades and they've, you know, been working really hard. But watching how they've expanded into the global market has been incredible. And I come back to their branding and marketing all the time. Because if you look at the Zimmerman brand across every touch point, whether it's in store, whether it's online, whether it's, you know, on social media, you know, it's Zimmerman. It's very clear. You don't even have to read a logo or a caption because they're branding and their, their aesthetic and their style is. Is just so recognizable. And I've been to international events with them. The last one, when they opened a boutique there, which is a seasonal boutique, again, they're only opening for the summer because they're a summer brand. Very smart. But you went to these events and even though there were people from all over the world there, it was just so obvious. The essence of that brand was Australian. And I think that's what's appealing as well. So they've been very clever in creating a global brand without, without losing that Australianness which I think people globally now resonate with. You know, where I mean, even coming through Covid, everyone's going to love Australia even more. Right? You know, we're healthy, we' you know, we've got a great climate, we've got beautiful beaches and we've got, you know, technologically we're advanced, we're a first world country, you know, we've kind of got it all. And I think that's why you shouldn't be afraid when you do go global to really, to really latch on to being Australian.
Nathan Bush: Anyone in the game would know fashion retailing is a beast of its own. Luckily, our partners at Shopify plus have put together a fantastic guide with the latest trends, opportunities and threats to help fashion e commerce retailers. The fashion and apparel checklist is a highlight for me. To get your hands on the free Shopify Plus Fashion Industry Report, visit Shopify Plus LIVE FashionReport. That's ShopifyPlus LIVE FashionReport. To download your copy today,
Nathan Bush: Obviously you've got years there as magazine editor and now consulting to brands as well. And that for you starting with the brand because it can get very complicated.
Kellie Hush: Right.
Nathan Bush: The world of fashion, when you start getting into supply chains and everything else that goes behind it is that normally where you start with your clients is to make sure you've got a really strong, stable, recognizable brand and then everything else flows from that.
Kellie Hush: In today's world, yes, I think, you know, I think that unique selling point that USP that we talk about constantly in any kind of sales, it's, you know, it doesn't matter if you're selling computers, books or fashion or magazines, you know, what is your unique selling point? And I think today that has to happen on every platform. Again, I'll keep coming back to that but your brand has to speak to your consumer on every platform. And I think that's brand identity is really important that consumers know why they're coming to you. And I think again, you know, I think the department stores have struggled a little bit with that way because they have for a long time been everything for everyone. And I think people are much more, you know, aligned now with brands. And you know, I'm a Zimmerman girl, I'm a Camilla and Mark girl. I only wear Kid X. You know, you know, all my fashion is green. You know, there's things like that where people really want to align themselves with a brand and I think that if you can do that well then you'll build a community as well. I Think that's really important. I talk to a lot of fashion designers about who's your customer. I mean so often designers will say to me, oh, it's everyone from 18 to 65. It isn't and it can't be because you cannot create a collection for that range. You just cannot. It's impossible. You're going to kill yourself. So you narrow it down. It's just a bizarre. I always knew who my reader was. It was usually a ten year kind of, that was, that was my sweet spot. So the content really had to, had to be targeted at that woman. And if I got women outside of that, even better. But you really have to know who your customer is and create a collection for that. And I love Alice McCall, but I'm McCall customer. I don't wear dresses anymore that are mid thigh and just cover my bum. I wish I could, but I don't. So again, you know, Alice can't sell, sell dresses to 65 year old women. She probably does because there's probably women out there that can get away with it. But I think she knows she's a young party girl, she's going out and that's who her customer is. So again, that targeted marketing, you've got to be, you really know who you're selling to.
Nathan Bush: It makes total sense in a sense. And that being unapologetic around targeting in on a central customer and then going after them and then catching whatever's around it is great. They're not trying to go the other way and then tug it down.
Kellie Hush: Oh, exactly.
Nathan Bush: Nothing to anyone.
Kellie Hush: I mean, I think PE Nation is another great example of just incredible marketing. Right. You know, Pip, Ed woods is amazing, you know, and so is Claire. But you know, because they wear it, you believe it. They were walking billboards for the brand. But if you look at anything across their website, their social media, anything that they do in the media, they're head to toe in it. They're alive, they're healthy, you know, you know, but there are girls that probably have never been to a yoga class in their life that are still wearing it because they want to buy into that. I mean, who doesn't want to look like Pip or Claire? You know, I do, you know, I know the girls, you know, they work out, they live and breathe it. So you know, that brand is lucky in a sense that they've got those women that, that are the customer and it's very easy to identify who she is because you just got to look at, you know, I mean, the girls that tag them I mean, I love. A really good exercise for people too, is to go to brands that you really like and look at the pictures that customers and people have, have posted and tagged. So it really gives you a sense of how people engage with the brand. And I think Pennation is a good one to have a look at because you see how women are wearing it, how they want to be a part of the nation, which is what is the pennation community. So that's, you know, a really good example. And you can apply that to many businesses. It just doesn't have to be fashion.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, exactly. I think that's a really good point, is that it's almost like, do your customers not only wear what you produce, but they do they create a community around that as well?
Kellie Hush: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, globally, supreme did it, you know, I mean, I went to. Tried to get into supreme in London. I even tried to. I'm the editor of Harper's Bazaar Australia, and they just said, get in line. You know, just dying. It's like, I'm only in London for 24 hours. Sorry. They've been here since 7 in the morning.
Nathan Bush: In Line. Gymshark. Gymshark and Peloton, the two that come to mind around that, they've just become more than a fashion label.
Kellie Hush: Right.
Nathan Bush: They've become a community. It's. It's a really, really strong thing if you get it right.
Kellie Hush: Yeah. And even looking at what Elle McPherson is doing with Wilco, you know, there's another example, you know, I mean, again, she's a living, breathing, you know, billboard, but, you know, she's a woman in her 50s now and you've got young girls that really want to, To. To be drinking Wellco every morning. Because if you can look like that at 55, you'd do anything, wouldn't you? I drink my juices every day.
Nathan Bush: We're getting dangerously into Gwyneth. Gwyneth Paltrow territory here.
Kellie Hush: Pew. I won't. You.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned in there as well, and I think this is really interesting. We've got the industry changing, but we've also got the. The customer is drastically changing. Right. I'd love to get your thoughts on what you've seen in terms of being able to reach customers, reach eyeballs and engage customers from your time when you first started out in magazines through to what you're seeing now in how fashion brands and retailers engage customers.
Kellie Hush: I mean, when I started out, I mean, I think I was one of the early adopters of Instagram. I was on Twitter. I didn't so much love Twitter, but, you know, because I'm, I don't, you know, I, you know, I don't like the sound of my own voice that much, but really love Instagram and engaged in it quite early on. And you know, when, when at first, you know, it was a part of the brand, but it wasn't integral. It was kind of, we posted on it when we, we could and you know, when I was away at the fashion shows, I'd post. But it became very clear that it was a very, very important part of the brand. And in fact, it was going to be the biggest community you're going to build in the end. So in the end, our, you know, our Instagram audience was bigger than our magazine readership. So it became a very important and it became much more curated, became much more targeted. You know, I couldn't just go away and just post whenever I wanted on the Harper's Bazaar feed it because it was very much, you know, okay, we're posting at this because we need this content to be looked at. It became a very, very big marketing tool. And I think that's how brands have to have to approach social. And that's been a massive change for me is seeing how that's used. And I've spoken to fashion designers who have even just recently, they've been really playing with how they use it. So, you know, the rule of thumb was before, you know, maybe post once or twice a week and, you know, keep your customers happy. But, you know, by Johnny, Johnny Schrembry is posting five, six times a day. You know, and he's seeing the engagement, he's selling, he's selling more by doing that than any other marketing tool because he knows his customer, who's a young girl who loves fashion and wants to look great every weekend is on there looking for the next fashion fix. So he's feeding that need. But again, it's understanding your client because you also might have clients that don't want that much content on their feed and they'll stop following you. So it's really, again, understanding that customer. But she, she's much more savvy today and so is he. You know, they're much more savvy. They can go and have a look at stuff, they can go online, they can surf around, they can compare prices because that's the other thing that consumers are comparing prices constantly. They're after a bargain. You know, you get die hard fans that are willing to always, you know, buy things at, you know, at full price, but then you've got that other savvy shopper. So you, you really have to have a look at your tribes within your, you know, your, your customer. You know, lots of people. I mean, I've done it at magazines where you've got Jenny and you've got Gracie and you've got Tracy and they buy different cars and they have different jobs and how do you communicate with them? But it's the truth. And again, asking your customers, I mean you have a direct line to your customer. That never happened before. You know, people would come into your store, you'd hear about it if they didn't like something, but you don't hear about if they loved it. But on social media you can ask, you can put a question out there, you know, okay, the Josie dress. We've had a great season with the Josie dress. Would you like to see it again next season? We can do it in three more colors. You get 100 messages back, we want Josie in pink. We want, you know, you've got to not be shy. And again, it's building that community. And then people feel more attached to your brand because they feel part of it and they're influencing you, but in fact you're influencing them but they feel a part of it.
Nathan Bush: Do you feel as Australians that we are probably too hesitant to put too much out there, like we think we're annoying people or overdoing it rather than go the other way?
Kellie Hush: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I do it myself. It's just like I've posted this week, I can't put something else up that's too much. How embarrassing. But no, absolutely. But I think you've just got to be thick skinned and that's why, you know, chatting, you know, chatting to Johnny Schremberg, you know, listening to him, you know, it's no, no, we just go for it. And again, it's that having, you've got to have the content though. That's the other thing I talk to, you know, people that are a little bit old school, they're still doing the big one campaign, you know, investing all this money, investing, you know, 30, 40, 50 grand in this one big campaign. They get 30 shots, that's their season done. You can't do that anymore because your grid's going to look boring and then everything's going to look the same, right? You go to your Instagram feed, you go to your website, everything looks the same. You go in store, the posters are the same. So you have to have a lot of content and you got to think about it differently. You Know, a lot of designers talking about having that one size fit all so that you're doing a campaign that can work across every platform, even in your windows. But it has to be constantly changing. And, you know, I had a chat to the Mary. People create actually, that do the cute, cute little gumboots. And, you know, her challenge was like, you know, how do I shoot gumboots? Gumboots. 500 gumboots on an Instagram feed is going to be really boring, right? You think about. You wear your gum boots in the garden. So you do a lifestyle shot of someone gardening. You know, you wear your gum boots when you're out at the farm. You're going to a vineyard with your girlfriends, you go into Coachella, you know, so you've got to think about how do you represent that product in different ways? Because then it makes it exciting, you know, and it doesn't look the same. And it also gives people visual cues of how to use your product. It's like, oh, you know, I didn't think about that. I'm going to buy, you know, I'm going to. I'm going to buy my, you know, my granddaughter, my daughter, some. Some, you know, marry people boots because she. She's going to that music festival and they'll be perfect. You know, it's things like that, I think, you know, I'd be very happy if my mother bought me some gumboots to go to a music festival.
Nathan Bush: It's almost like that you're buying the experience, right? You're not buying the gumboots. You're buying what the gumboots allow you to do.
Kellie Hush: Yeah, that's that emotional, you know, that's. That's what people shouldn't be afraid of. It's like you got to create emotion, you know, because that's how people buy into things, because you become, you know, emotionally attached to it. I'm emotionally attached to lots of things.
Nathan Bush: When you are advising clients, given your magazine background and what you've just said around how powerful Instagram is, do you normally advise clients to push towards creating and owning their own customer through their own channels, or do you still advise to go into those more traditional channels as well?
Kellie Hush: It's all about reach. I mean, essentially, you're not going to say no to a full page in Harper's Bazaar or Vogue if it's on the table. I think it's all about reach, but I think you cannot rely on one channel anymore. So once upon a time, it was all about traditional media and your tear sheets and how many Product placements you got in Marie Claire and Vogue and the Sydney Morning Herald and, and what have you. But I think now it has to be. You have to have your voice everywhere. I think it's, and that's why I think for mainstream media, especially your brand story, you have to have a great brand story. You need stories because that's, that's what you can sell to an editor or journalist. You know, they're getting inundated with, you know, still life shots and product shots. They've also got commercial, you know, which I think a lot of people don't understand is that there's this commercial reality to any fashion magazine. You got to look after your advertisers. But again, you have a brand story that you can tell so that it's, and keep thinking about it, you know, you may have gone to, you may have gone to me five years ago with a story and I've gone, you know, it's not quite right for us. But come back, you might have another story, you know, that, that really resonates and it's also, you know, and don't be afraid of partnerships as well. You know, I think that covet has actually been really interesting to watch with, with unusual partnerships that have, that have happened with brands. You know, I was watching, I mean, Edwina McCann, who's a mate of mine, who's the editor of Vogue News limited did a partnership with Optus and basically they're calling, you know, high profile Australians at home and seeing how they're going. And Edwino called Ian Thorpe their old mates and it was a really lovely conversation. But that's, that's a commercial agreement, right? And you got great content out of it. So again, it's, it's you thinking as a brand, like, who can I partner with? I think officeworks has just done, you know, it's pretty, pretty straightforward. But how, you know, entrepreneurs are working at home. I mean, it's pretty straightforward, but it's a great brand alignment, you know, and then you've got at least Tram from the Daily Editor posting on her social feed and then you've got the Office Works posting on their social feed. So it's a win, win. So I think you just got to think a little bit out the square, outside the square, because those big brands can also be great partners for you too. And I think to, you know, to, you know, you know that I'm working with Clara at the moment, but they also have great marketing tools too for their customers, you know, that, you know, you've become a Client of theirs, and then all of a sud. Sudden, you know, marry people. I'm writing a story about Mary people which will go out to the Klarna database. So I think you've got to think about the partners that you have on board and who you can take on board. But don't, you know, again, you want to be everywhere. So don't. Don't close off to, you know, hassling Edwina McCann at Vogue. Your phone number.
Nathan Bush: She'd love that, wouldn't she?
Kellie Hush: Just ring me later. I'll give you Edwina's number.
Nathan Bush: But you're so right. And I think that's really important is that you don't just think of. Of the partnerships that are really obvious is like, you look sideways, you look up, you look down. There are partnerships all around that you can make it work. And whether it's your technology partners, whether it's your supply partners, your customers, there's so much you can leverage there.
Kellie Hush: Oh, exactly. And I think that's the thinking you have to have. Now. It's like things have changed, and it's all been thrown up in the air. Everything's disrupted. So, you know, it's your opportunity to think differently and disrupt as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Now, talking of throwing things up in the air, a couple of years ago, you made a pretty drastic change and entered. Entered and created your own fashion brand called the Way. Tell us what opportunity you saw there and how that came about.
Kellie Hush: Obviously, I've been in the media for over 20 years and again, disrupted. I was finding it incredibly challenging. Budgets were being cut. So, you know, Harper's Bazaar is a luxury fashion magazine. Costs a lot of money to put out. So I was just challenged. And I also love a challenge. So I, you know, I had been talking to a few people about different opportunities, and then I spoke to who ended up becoming my business partner in the Way, about a retail opportunity. And I've always loved retail. I spent a lot of time with retailers, having lunch with managing directors and CEOs, and, you know, fashion designer. So I'm constantly chatting about the business of fashion. So I was interested. We saw a bit of a gap in the market in that accessible, you know, high fashion, you know, accessories, place and. Yeah, and we launched the Way, and it was great. But I think probably what I learned is that you really do have to be on the same page creatively as your business partner. You know, I come from a creative background. I'm not. I'm not a cfo. I hate Excel spreadsheets, you know, so I think you really need to get in line with your partner about where you want the business to go. And I think that's probably what our speed hump was. And you know, I did leave, I'm honest, I left the business within 12 months of us launching. So I knew that probably long term it wasn't the right thing for me that, you know, my vision for the way wasn't, wasn't the same as his. So it was better to go and do something else.
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Nathan Bush: Was there a specific decision or breakpoint that you went, I can't compromise on this, I've got to be out?
Kellie Hush: Oh, yeah. It was the imagery of the creative vision, it was how the brand was going to be represented visually. And, you know, I felt that the direction that he wanted to go in was already being done in the market and was being done by a lot of really successful retailers. And I felt that, you know, copying what they were doing was not going to be right for us and it didn't sit comfortably with me. It wasn't something I could deliver. It's just not who I am. It doesn't represent my taste level. And, you know, and I know there is, are a lot of brands doing really well, like Boohoo and all that, that are doing incredibly well from that, that space. But it's not what my background. I couldn't, I couldn't sell it authentically and authenticity is really important to me. I've always, you know, girl from Canberra. I'm as authentic and as normal as they come and I can't, I can't, I can't. Bullshit.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's brilliant. We love that.
Nathan Bush: And I think it's a really great
Nathan Bush: lesson in knowing, in sticking to your guns around something that you believe in too. Right. Is that your vision when you went in was, was for exactly that imagery that you had and that being at the core of the brand, if that wasn't going to be it, otherwise you're just going to put yourself through pain for years and years and years for something that you grow to hate.
Kellie Hush: Oh, and that's so true. And that's, and that's probably what happened. I had a lot of discussions with my, with my husband. It's just like, you know, and I did stick it out. I, you know, I worked with quite a few people that I knew who worked in retail of how to, how to manage this. And, you know, I think it just became unmanageable. And, you know, I'm pretty tough. That's the thing is I've worked in Media for 25 years, so I knew it wasn't because I didn't have the stomach for it, because it was under no illusion that it would be challenging. But I think it's, I just knew that to really build a brand successfully, you have to give it, you know, years. Right. And I just, I was just fearful that it would be not, not a great experience and I wouldn't come out the other end of it, you know, it wouldn't have been good for me.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah. Was there anything during that time that gave you a new found that you, that you found out about retail that you didn't realize before being in there that you kind of, you saw it from another perspective?
Kellie Hush: I think, you know, which is what a lot of people are talking about at the moment is leases for bricks and mortar. I think that's what, you know, can make or break a business. So we were very much looking for retail space and, you know, we're working with a lot of retailers who, you know, wanted to get into bed with us. But when it came down to the cost of it, it was, I mean, you just can't do it. It can ruin you within six months if you're not up and flying. And I think too, I mean, getting the online right as well, I think you have to have a really, really good experience online. I think you need to invest in online. I think we probably didn't invest enough, so the user experience wasn't the best. But you really have to be able to, you have to get onto a website, be able to click on what you want, put it in your basket and get out of. Right. If it doesn't work, you're not coming back. So I think there's that. I think also digital marketing, obviously way we marketed our magazine was very different. But I think, you know, Google, you know, marketing on Facebook and Instagram, I just think it's scary. I can just see why businesses just burn through the Money and get no roi. And that's, that's what's scary today. And I really, I think that's the challenge for a lot of people, small businesses, is how do you market the brand when you're just starting out without blowing a whole heap of cash and wasting it and still not getting the eyeballs or the click throughs?
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Kellie Hush: Excel spreadsheet.
Nathan Bush: Do you think we talked a little bit about physical retail and I'd love to get your view on department stores moving forward. Do you think it's crucial for fashion brands in Australia to have a physical presence as well as an online presence?
Kellie Hush: I mean, you can answer this question two ways, but I think at the moment, yes, I think you need to experience the brand. And, you know, if I was to again, look at some of the brands I think are doing really well, I mean, I'd love to see PE Nation have a concept store, right. That you could go in there and look and feel and touch the brand. You know, it doesn't have, doesn't have to be everywhere, but a couple of flagships I think would be great for the brand. It's a marketing tool and I think still people that love shopping. I think I was at Westfield Bondi Junction on the weekend. There were people everywhere. You know, people are coming out of their houses, you know, yes, there's a necessity. I had to go and buy some cables for computers, but there are people there that are just trying to get out of the house, you know, and lots of people buying clothes. I think there's still a need for bricks and mortar. But I think that, like, having an experience when you go into a retail store is so important. I think, you know, Joe Horgan at Mecca does it incredibly well. My youngest daughter especially is obsessed with Mecca. And whenever you go in there, you're delighted. Your eyeballs are alive, the staff are, you know, great. But you walk in there and you just want to purchase, right? It makes you want to purchase. So I, you know, I still love the retail experience, especially really good retail experiences. I mean, you know, years ago, Costa Como in Milan was one of the best retail stores in the, you know, in the world. And, you know, in Colette in Paris, you know, where it wasn't necessarily a shop, it was walking in there because it was cool and they had stuff that you'd never seen before. So if it's curated and cool and experience and really gives you a taste of that brand, I think bricks and mortar is still really important.
Nathan Bush: And do you see the formats of department stores like DJs and Myers being sustainable moving forward.
Kellie Hush: I mean, I've just read today that David Jones are going to be shutting stores. They're going to be shrinking floor space. Absolutely. I think, you know, I don't think it can work going forward. I think those massive department stores, I think, I think the buy has to be tighter that, you know, I think department stores especially, you know, working with Australian fashion brands, I know that they're constantly looking at what's working and they'll cut brands that aren't. But yeah, there needs to be a reason to go in there and that's what that, that's their challenge is, is, you know, you've got to draw people in and I think, think, you know, having a great, for women, having a really great shoe floor, that's gold. Right? Because I think that's still one of those things that women want to try on and look at. You know, buying shoes online is, can be challenging, but yeah, there has to be an experience. But I think they've probably got to look at, look at the floor space and, you know, what, what do we really need on it and what is working and what does our consumer want? I think she's how we emerge. I don't know. You know, I've been chatting about that, that with, you know, my fashion mates too, is, you know, is the female consumer, when she finally does go back to Barangaroo and Melbourne cbd, is. Is the way she dressed going to be looser? I mean, still corporate, but is it going to be much more comfortable and looser? Because for the last 12 weeks we've been in comfortable clothing, you know, we still going to want to put on difficult shoes or, you know, how is that going to affect the consumer and how she spends her money and how she wants to feel now? Because, you know, it's been dramatic, it's been life changing for a lot of people. It's changed how we live, it's changed how we dress, it changes how we work, it's changed how we school. So how is that going to impact consumers and how they shop and just even down to the way they dress when they go to work.
Nathan Bush: Yep, yep. It's all up in the air, isn't it?
Kellie Hush: My head's spinning.
Nathan Bush: It's a fantastic opportunity.
Kellie Hush: Right.
Nathan Bush: So you can either look at it as an opportunity or a strategy threat and I think there's a lot of, a lot of chances for resets here.
Kellie Hush: Oh, I agree. And again, I keep saying. But I have been, I have been chatting to so many people And I was chatting to David Thomas, the ex CEO of David Jones, who's now over at the SEED group and we're talking about that. It's, you know, it really will be the survival of the fittest and you know, and you've got to have a gut for it, right? Because it's, you know, it's, it's scary times. But if you've got gut and instinct and you know, you can see this as an opportunity and exciting and way to rethink your business and rethink how you operate and really have a hard look at what you're doing digitally. I mean, you know, calibre is new to dot com, but thank goodness they're on dot com, right. You know that they've got an online store because if they hadn't, oh my God, there's no sales, you know, so it's like, you know, what are you doing if you, if you don't have a strong website at the moment? I'd be looking at it because there's every chance that again, consumers, shopping habits for some people may have changed forever. They're not going to a mall again. You know, they might be afraid to, of being around people for six months time. So they're going to continue shopping online and then you'll get other people that will just go back to old habits.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So if I'm a fashion retailer or a fashion brand listening to this and you've got your crystal ball in front of you, where would you say to best focus my efforts to survive the next 12 to 24 months? What excites you about what's coming up?
Kellie Hush: I think what excites me is I think fashion is really going to be looking at how much they actually need to produce and sell. Like, let's actually look at what the consumer wants. And does she really need six, six seasons a year? No, she doesn't. So I think that's, that's a big thing that's happening globally. Everyone's looking at, okay, we've got to slow this down. There's too much stuff. We don't need all this stuff. Let's just get smarter about how we design collections, produce collections and sell collections. So I think there's that. I think it's an opportunity for designers now to have a look at their collections too and think, you know, what really works, like what has been selling. But why throw it all out and start again every season? You know, you had a dress that you sold 3,000 units of, why wouldn't you look at that dress? And go, okay, how can we recreate that for next season? That it's different, but it feels new. But it's still essentially that hot dress that everyone wanted to buy. I think that's what we've got to start looking at. Slow it down a bit. Get all. And again, look at your brand. You know, what does, what, what is the brand? What does it look like? Who are we talking to? I think you need to sit back and it's almost like the biggest audit you've ever done on your brand. Slow down. I mean, I know everyone's panicked at the moment. It's all about panic gearing up again. But if you can, for a second, just slow it down, have a look, deep dive and then reset, because you can. Like, I don't think anyone's expecting it to all go back to normal. I mean, Gucci's just announced it's doing two shows a year. It used to do 37 or some stupid number. That's, you know, that's exaggeration. But they're doing two shows a year. This is one of the biggest fashion brands in the year. Who said we're not. The circus is over. We're not, we're not, we're not a part of that anymore. We're not doing pre fall, pre spring cruise, summer, spring, menswear, couture, whatever, two seasons a year. And we're going to combine men's and women's. So I mean, that's, you know, for some of your listeners, that doesn't sound radical, but in terms of the fashion, you know, luxury fashion world, that is radical. That is radical. So that means they're going to be investing that money elsewhere. And that means they're going to be. I reckon they'll be amping up digital. You know, their Instagram will go off. They'll be investing money probably in tick Tock because people, luxury brands are now looking at tick Tock. I know some people are a bit, a little bit afraid of tick Tock because it's a younger audience, but Burberry is already there, Celine's already there. They're looking at different avenues and to try to try to find that new customer.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I think that's just such brilliant advice, just to slow down. Because if you just keep speeding up to try and match what everyone else is doing, no one really knows how they're going to come out, out of this.
Kellie Hush: Right.
Nathan Bush: So there's no, no point trying to follow anyone.
Nathan Bush: It's like, slow down and you can
Nathan Bush: actually come out in a leadership position. Because you set your own path.
Kellie Hush: Yeah, yeah. It's just like, you know what, the lot of brands that are going to have a lot of inventory sitting there so you don't have to throw it out. Just have a look at it, you know, repackage it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah.
Kellie Hush: We're still buying 30 years later.
Nathan Bush: Yes, true. Very true. Kelly, it has been so good speaking with today and getting your. Your views on the fashion industry for Australia and how we're going to come through Covid and what lies ahead. Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and your knowledge.
Kellie Hush: Ah, pleasure. Thank you. Talk soon.
Nathan Bush: Slow down. Did you get it? Slow down. That advice from Kelly, it really stuck with me this episode. It's no secret that most of us have been running around with our hair on fire and our feet barely touching the floor over the last couple of months. That was the scramble. But the future starts now. Not only in fashion, but for all of us in retail. If you can heed Kelly's advice, slow down. Take stock. Plan your next moves. Set yourself up for the new future. There are a number of activities in there that Kelly mentioned that can set you up for the future. Think about one. Revisit your brand. Does it stand for something? Will it stand the test of time? Two, audit your customer experience end to end. Does it live up to your own expectations as a customer? Three, review your channel strategy. Are your distribution and marketing channels going to fit into the new world? And four, review and leverage your partnerships. There's so much value that can be extracted there. As Kelly said, there's no one to follow at the moment. This is your opportunity to take the lead and create your future experience. I've got no doubt that if you've listened to this episode, there are at least two or three things that you can take from from Kelly and implement into your own business, whether you're in fashion or not. So thanks again, Kelly. If you want to stay up to date with future episodes of ADD to Cart, head over to addtocart.com and sign up for our newsletter. Also, if you really liked what you heard, could you do me a favor? Tell a friend or a colleague about it and leave a review in the itunes store. It would make such a huge difference for us. Thanks for listening. And until next time, keep adding to carrd.
