[Voiceover]: If it works online, let's deliver it in store, but a really different way to make sure that there's two conversations going on and two kind of triggers to purchase in different spaces. It's a bit of a treasure trove in terms of understanding more about our customers. I have never felt so empowered to make decisions and I've never felt so empowered to fail spectacularly. But just keep going. Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.
Nathan Bush: Welcome to another episode of Add to Cart. I'm Bushie and I'm joining you from the land of the Terrible People otherwise known as Brisbane, Australia on Add to Cart. We welcome everyone to share and listen to e commerce stories. The more diverse the better. I want to especially welcome the traditional owners and the original storytellers of the land that we are on, our indigenous and Torres Strait Islander listeners to join us in our e commerce conversations and our community. I think we all know that the skincare category is very crowded, but today's guest has made a big splash in this space by utilizing the science and proof behind an emerging ingredient, hemp. As we know now, hemp is used to make a whole range of products including rope, clothing, paper, biofuel and now skincare. But the origin story behind this brand is fascinating because it wasn't developed in a science lab or found on an overseas trend mission. It was a recommendation from their founders, beauty therapist Mum Hey Bud creates skincare products that deliver premium products combining nature and Science. Started by three friends in 2019, the brand now has a global customer base in over 90 countries. Today, their head of marketing, Hannah Newman, joins us to share the hey Bud skincare and give us a bit of insight into how the brand has been so successful in such a short amount of time. Hannah's background has been as part of marketing teams such as style Tread and L' Oreal before joining Heybud in 2022. In this chat, Hannah shares how Heybud focuses on creating comprehensive product pages that prioritize customer questions and really go deep with information that go beyond most product pages. She also talks about how they've blended science and fun to craft their distinct tone of voice, and tells us about their impressive track record in pursuing experimental activations. Swifty fans might be very familiar with this one in particular. Now, if you want to experience firsthand what hemp can do for you and for your skin, listeners can get to 20% off hey bud Products as a gift from Hannah. Stay tuned for the code at the end of the chat. So thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Deliver in person. Here's our conversation with Hannah Newman, head of marketing at hey Bud. Hannah, welcome to ADD to cart.
[Voiceover]: Thank you. Very happy to be here today.
Nathan Bush: So good to have you here. I think our listeners will get sick of hearing it, but I've just come back from holidays and we were talking about that and then you were like, oh yeah, I've just been in Europe for a month. I was like, oh, your holiday Trump.
[Voiceover]: It's definitely that time of year though. I think I'm staring out at a cold, rainy Melbourne day today. So I think you can't really blame people for trying to escape a little bit this time of year.
Nathan Bush: Well done for coming back from Europe.
[Voiceover]: I am still a little bit jet lagged so hopefully this flows nice and well. And if I get a little bit stumped, give me a second and I think I'll catch up in a sec.
Nathan Bush: That's the good stuff. It's like that hot wings, you know that YouTube show or the hot wings where they interview celebrities. And as like the wings get hotter, they give the more delirious answers and the more honest answers I should just get people as they come off planes. So I get like the tired answers that are like the honest ones. All right, let's take it from the top. So hey Bud, an amazing story so far for those who haven't heard about hey bud. Started by three 20 something year old guys, skincare brand. So shout out to Alex, Fidel and Ollie. What makes hey Bud unique in what I can imagine is a very crowded market.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And I think as any beauty guest that you may have had on here and tell you, and I'm sure anyone thinks their industry is as well too, but that beauty space I think in the last five and really 10 years as well too, that Covid impact on it, absolutely massive. And when we think about the market as well too, the independent beauty brands that are kind of launching every week, there's a lot of them out there unfortunately as well, a lot that have a quick rise and a quick fall. But definitely it is really tough to stand out in that space at the moment. When I think about hey Bud in that term, what makes us unique? What a multifaceted question. But when I break it down I think it actually kind of comes back to who we are and where we started as a brand. And as you said, kind of shout out to the three guys as well to take it back to kind of the founding story of hey Bud. And we start off with Alex and Fido in their teenage years. So both of them suffered through teenage acne. Now anyone who's been impacted by teenage acne, what you find is there is such a strong kind of emotional element to it. It affects conf not only for the teenagers themselves, but of course the people purchasing the products from as well. So their parents around them or of course guardians as well too. And Alex unfortunately definitely got hit with that in his teenage years. Quite a lot of teenage acne. And interestingly Fidel's mom is a beauty therapist of 20 plus years and so was kind of seeking better solutions out there for acne. You know, you walk into the shelves at that point in time and it's all chemical based, it's all classic kind of legacy style brands that haven't really been innovated for at that point even 10, 15 years and kind of still the same out there. And she actually imported some hemp seed oil in from the us. It wasn't really readily available in Australia just yet.
Nathan Bush: What year are we talking here?
[Voiceover]: This is kind of teenage years. So this is kind of the beginning provisions of Haybud. The brand is now four years old itself, but this is probably quite a few years before that kind of kicking it off. But actually then what she did is combine that with some really fantastic acne based products. So think like kaolin clay. So you know, clay acne mask, they're in market at the moment. But again we're going a bit Skincare 101 to kick off here. But yeah, really drying out the skin and that kind of thing. What you need is a bit of moisture at the end and that's exactly what hemp seed oil did. So hey Bud is actually founded from a really authentic kind of emotional connection as part of that. And I think what's really exciting is about the next stages of that is then actually putting that production. They produce 500 hemp clay masks for the first run. Sold out almost instantly. And then we are here we are four years later and what you have now is we have over 16 plus products. We have a very strong NPD program as well too. That's going to extend that quite soon as well, making sure that we're catering to that acne market now. All of that authenticity actually builds to who we are as a brand. We're here for our customer, we're here for our community as well too. And I think when you look at the skincare shelves, whether it's in market or you jump online and kind of just search skincare on Google, which is a minefield. What you find is a lot of big brands, not a lot of realness to it, and definitely a lot of layers where there's no kind of story or connection behind the brand from the people who are behind it. And I think that definitely shows through as well at the end.
Nathan Bush: Yes. Okay. Lot to unpack there. The irony is I was an acne teen as well, and I. Look, my wife and I were actually having this conversation the other week. I was like, I'm so glad that when our kids, because they're eight and nine at the moment, I'm like, so glad that by the time they're teenagers, if they inherit my bad skin, they are going to have so many more options available than what was out there 30 years ago. Right. Like, it's amazing that there's so many more options available. And the irony wasn't lost on me that before our chat, I had like a little pimple pop up on my cheek. Oh, my God. Of all the episodes, it had to be this one.
[Voiceover]: Well, don't worry, I've got something for that if you need it. No, completely agree with you there as well. And I think that's where it came from is the proactive, the bleach, towels, all of that kind of stuff. You know, it comes from mother's love. At the end of the day, around, there had to be a better solution out there. And the great news is, is there is. And that's what we're kind of building to as well too, is making sure that we have that accessibility for our community. And again, that real and really authentic way as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. So looking at it from the outside, I look at the product and I go, oh, hemp is the differentiator. And I've got a feeling we're going to go a lot deeper than that today. But tell me about hemp. Is it still a differentiator in beauty or is it kind of a common product and ingredient now? And you need to kind of. That can't be a key message.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And absolutely. Let's talk hemp and I will try and keep it surface level. I think what's really funny when you get to know me is where I'm at, I'm 100% in. And so my learning on hemp in terms of skincare and kind of the science behind it in the last two odd years, again, it's such a great ingredient. So when we actually Break it down. We look at hemp in market in the skincare space, I think it's really important to recognize we're never the first anyone who comes in and says I'm the first person to ever do this, ever. A little bit delusional and probably needs a bit of reality check. There's brands who've done it out there before us but I think when I look back to us and where hemp actually fits in as our differentiator, it's the way we're actually delivering it to market. So when you look at our products, we're a hemp powered skincare brand but when you look at us on the shelf, we've got really subtle mentions to it. It's not that cultural stigma that kind of fits behind the word hemp and obviously the plant that is associated with that. Where we have hemp as our key differentiate, our key USP at the end of the day that it's created and formulated with incredible actives in the skincare space to actually make sure people are getting what they need. And that really again I'm sure we'll dive into kind of product loyalty in a minute. But actually that is a really key space for us in the marketing piece for hey bud is our products work and people are so happy to shout about it from the rooftops about it and it's actually kind of pulling it all back in together there. And hemp is the really tempo of everything that we do.
Nathan Bush: As add to cart listeners are high performance athletes. You would be very aware that gains only come when you eat well, exercise regularly and get good rest. You can't just do one. I mean it's obvious for us. So when it comes to your tech stack, why should it be any different? This is what the LSKD team thought as they continued their omnichannel growth and international expansion offering online in the US Shopify plus Open retail stores rapidly use Shopify plus make a scene with pop up experiences. Shopify plus there are no weak links here and the gains speak for themselves. Since migrating to Shopify, the LSKD team have seen a 37% increase in online sales with over 200% year on year growth for US store revenue and a 400% increase in POS revenue with Shopify plus there's no skipping leg day because they've done it for you. Check out shopify.com auplus and get in touch with the Aussie Shopify plus team to see how Shopify plus can help you unify your tech stack for growth from A marketing perspective. If hemp is your main ingredients and one of your USPs, I can tell that there is so much more about hemp that you want to talk about and that you want to tell us all the scientific benefits behind it from a customer perspective who may not even differentiate hemp from the associated plant. And you know, it's a murky area if you're not in the space. How do you tell the story of hemp to a customer who may not be as invested as you are?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, great question because it's a great challenge and there's two layers to that. Yeah. How do we move away from the cultural stigma and deliver what we're trying to do, which is premium skincare, but then also how do we educate in a way that feels every day so we talk to our customer in a real way. We're not here to give you Science 101. Although again myself and the lovely product development team shout out to Lara. Hey bud. Will definitely love diving into the science behind it. That's what we're here to do and we're here to deliver kind of that top level. This is what you need to know about hemp for our customers. So there's a couple of really key benefits to hemp in skincare. Number one, it's anti inflammatory, so actually supporting inflamed, angry skin. So think acne based skin. There's a lot of anger in that nice redness that you're going to have whether it's during breakout or post breakout as well too. Hemp also has a really fantastic balance of Omegas 3, 6 and 9. So again that repairing that healing and protecting and also as well it's a natural humectant, which means again 101, you're going to get a lot of moisture kind of protection from hemp. So where people with acne sometimes are a little bit scared of, you know, putting moisture back into their skin, they kind of associate it with oil, one of the really key factors of healthier skin. You know, if you do have acne, you need to heal and repair your skin. You actually do need a little bit of the right kind of moisture that's really light. I would say to actually get in there and help repair, repair and kind of do that long term healing that the skin actually needs underneath.
Nathan Bush: Do your customers actually care around the explanation that you've given there or do they, as you referred to earlier, more care about the results on real customers you talked a lot about before and after and you can see that all through Your sites, all through your social is a real element of ugc. And before and after photos, is that more powerful than trying to explain the concept behind hemp?
[Voiceover]: If I can split that answer into new and returning customers, that is the easiest way to go. Here is at the end of the day, again, skincare, what do people want? They want it to perform. So from a new customer, what do they want from new brands that you've been introduced to, They've just been served a paid ad, maybe they're getting a bit of SEO, you know, seeing something on social that's blowing up. They just want to know that the skincare that they're using is working, is, sorry that they want to use rather is going to work. And that comes a lot from social proof. Of course, as you've mentioned mentioned there, those customer reviews, that kind of UGC based content as well too. So that is that new customer pool is they want to feel like they are not being recommended a product by a brand. So it's not us saying, hey, come to, hey bud, we've got what you need. It's going to work, it's going to change your life. What we actually do is really nurture that community to support the message for us. So again, where these new customers come to us, it's not us standing here saying, hey, we've got it, it's actually other customers recommending it to them. So in that space, at the end of the day, what's important, it's about that performance message coming from a different customer. So that social proof there on the returning customer side of things, how do we keep them engaged and how do we teach them about, okay, cool, they've now used our product, of course they love it. And how do we actually keep them in the haybud loop? How do we introduce them to new steps in their routine, making sure that they're getting what they need as well for their skin type. And a big part of that is education. So again, this is an education at science based level that we do in the office to make sure that the customers don't. But it's actually about those little snippets of education, hey, this is why your product's working, hence it all does this. Okay, you're seeing those results. Fantastic. So again, kind of providing that confirmation bias where they've bought a product, other people love it, that's why they're kind of converted in the first moment. Yet when you actually bring them into the fold, we're finding that yeah, they actually really appreciate a little bit of education to really understand why what they have in front of them is going to be a little bit better than maybe something else they've had previously or you know, sitting on the shelf or in the search terms on Google as well.
Nathan Bush: It's a good point, isn't it? Because if you are expecting your customers to go out there and shout about your brand or advocate for your brand in conversations, it's nice to give them that little bit of extra information so that they can answer the but why questions like if it comes back at them because no one wants to be left going, oh, this stuff's really great, it works. And then have their friend or, you know, their partner go, but why does it work? And they go, oh, I don't know, like, so arming them with that information is really useful.
[Voiceover]: And even bigger than that, you know, when the next new shiny skincare brand pops up and has a bigger marketing budget than we do to tell them about why their brand's better. It's really important to make sure that your customers feel like they have the education as well too, that they're the ones informed. You don't want them going out there, as you said, kind of feeling like they're recommending something just because it isn't a pretty packaging. Which to be fair is a really key part of our strategy. But actually, actually more than that, we want them to feel like they understand the brand, they're connected to the brand. And it's really interesting that I know a lot of brands out there that education space is kind of secondary third, you know, past all the other information that they feel like converts stronger. But it's actually really important in long term loyalty as well. Again, that connection piece with community is really what you have to nurture. I mean, that hurts. That's a long term play. You don't really see instant results from it, but it's about kind of working into the messages along the way and again making sure the customer journey, you're kind of hitting them at the right times of what they want to hear from you as well.
Nathan Bush: Love it. All right, we are going to dive down the loyalty and the ambassador side later, but I want to start with acquisition. Can we start talking about the channels that you're distributing through? So I understand it started as D2C but I know now that you've got some retail partners on board as well. What are the distribution channels that hey bud. Rely on?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, so absolutely for the first two two and a half years of hey bud. We were DTC only and I Think the incredible story about that when you reflect on other brands in, in our market that we play in, is we had two and a half years of learning about our customers before we even tried to tackle the retail market in Australia. So we are now, when we look at Australia, we are now in Priceline and watch this space, let's just say that is the next stage. And we also have retail partners in New Zealand as well too, that we launched in the kind of 6 to 12 months that again, performing very strongly. Now the reason we were able to make really kind of insightful decisions in that retail space when we got to it, rather than just kind of throwing something at the likes of Priceline buyer and going buy this product. No one's ever tried it before, but we think it's going to be great. We're actually to walk, we were able to walk in there and say, this is our customer, this is where they're shopping in Australia and this is the next stage of growth for us. And it's a very informed decision. And I think when you think about the buyers, again, think about how saturated indie beauty space is, how many brands will be coming to them weekly saying, hey, put us on the shelf and not really understanding what that entails. I think the reason we've been so successful in the retail space, specifically in Australia, that's been running a little bit longer now, is because we're able to actually make really informed decisions based on the fact that we have the D2C space. So we have this first, you know, firsthand customer data that we're able to go, what do they like, how do they operate, what are they clicking on, what are they not listening to? Where are the challenges that we, we need to answer before we actually get to the next stage? Whether it's product, brand routine, all of the above, it's a bit of a treasure trove in terms of understanding more about our customers and actually really fuels the way that we're able to grow faster as well too as a business, is because we know what they want from us through that DTC space, but are able to actually execute it across all channels that we operate under.
Nathan Bush: And did you notice when you launched into retail for the first time, the impact immediately on the Digital or the
[Voiceover]: D2C channel, you are naturally going to see a little bit of a bump when you start shifting your messages away from hey, buy online, buy it online to hey, you're actually now available to walk down to your local Priceline, pop in at lunchtime and grab it. But I think what's been really interesting from our side of things is the retail kind of expansion that hey Bud is under at the moment. It's about accessibility for our customers. So if we flip back to our customer journey now, what do we want our customers to actually, how can they access hey Bud? We like to think of it. Of course we want them shopping on the D2C. We'd love them to be subscribing as well too. Skincare is a beautiful space of subscription. Of course, using it every day, it's running out within a month, two months depending on the product. However, maybe they have a friend stay over and they use too much of their cleanser now. Their, you know, subscription is out of whack. We want them to be able to walk down into their local priceline on their lunch break from work, pick up the cleanser, probably pick up another product from heybird as well too while they're there, and actually get what they need in all points of that customer journey as well too. Again with accessibility.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Interesting thing about hey Bud, and you alluded to it earlier, is that your branding and that comes through on your packaging is relatively simple. It's beautiful, but it's simple, right? It seems to be one color, one typeface. It's that very minimalist style. When we were chatting to the team at natpat who do the stickers for mosquitoes and anxiety and everything like that. As they expanded into the us, into Target and the rest, they had to actually redesign a lot of their packaging because the story that they were telling online was enough that their packaging didn't have to do a lot of heavy lifting in store. But when it was in store, seen by itself, they had actually changed a lot of the messaging on the packaging. Without that digital context behind it, have you had to do anything to the packaging to make it really stand out and also be self explanatory in a retail only environment?
[Voiceover]: There's probably two parts to that and I think if we start with the classic kind of hey Bud range. So think about your classic skincare that we've had for a little while. Again, the best selling clay mask cleanser, our moisturizer. If we kind of zone down on those three, what you will see in store is a beautiful, clean, absolute frontage as you've mentioned there. And we have a really strong reason behind that in the market that we play. And it's all about that human psychology. And for those of you who don't love this side of things, you know, tune away now. But when we look at the market for skincare, when we look at the premium brands that are really kind of out there pushing that premium message, their packaging is minimalistic, it's simple, it's one color, it's not glaringly kind of outlandish in terms of the saturation of the color as well. So there's a lot of science behind the way that it's presented. And of course when we look at what hey bud is in the market where that accessible kind of premium style products. So we wanted to make sure that we were still delivering that on shelf, still giving people that experience as well too. Especially in the likes of Priceline that really often that kind of mass stage space. So not your supermarket solutions, not your kind of Mecca Sephora solutions, but somewhere in between, we wanted to make sure that we had that presence. And so education is important. Yes. But as part of that we have point of sale. So we've got all of the lovely in store terms for post that some of the ecom listeners may not be across yet around wobblers and gondolas and end caps and things like that.
Nathan Bush: Whenever it's said in a serious retail meeting, whenever the word wobblers are said, it's a highlight of a meeting.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, absolutely. And I love the fact it's so descriptive of what that thing actually is as well too. But yeah, that's where we educate. That's where we do, let's call it the sell the hook I guess if we're in that ecom space. But actually we're still presenting a product that's nice and strong. Of course everything we do in store is backed up through socials, through our edm, through our website. That's where we kind of educate further. But interestingly part two, and this is where the brand has definitely evolved and built and is finding strength after strength is we do now have what I would call kind of retail offline optimized style products. Now these products are the products that probably the E comm world don't love as much. They're lower price point. So again you're not really driving up AOVs online. They may be heavier as well too, which of course shipping challenges we don't love online, but in store on a shelf something a bit bigger is probably going to be heavier. That looks great on a shelf. So that's where we actually start playing into thinking, hey, if this product is truly optimized for offline, how do we actually again support that kind of education on shelf? You'll see it across Impul patches which are just the offline market is incredible for that growth of us for a product and also our lip balms as well too that we have been talking a lot about lately. But yeah, really excited to kind of see them in the retail space soon again. They're a little bit busier on the packaging at the front but you can still getting that kind of minimalistic kind of edge to it that hey Bud really has as its core branding.
Nathan Bush: I think that's really interesting because a lot of the time as brands think about the split between D2C and retail offerings from a product perspective, there's that thought of okay, we'll offer everything, the extended range online and we'll give retail the core offering so that we can still, you know, we can acquire customers through retail but if they want all the different variants, all the different styles, they have to shop with us. D2C but I love what you're saying there around actually there are some things that just work well in retail only and I could imagine that makes your retail partners very happy to have exclusive access to that.
[Voiceover]: We hope so. Yeah. And you know it's really funny what you said there. Yeah that is a really classic probably E Comm first thinking of let's put some stuff online to drive people to DTC and you know the retail offering can just be about accessibility. So get our top selling out there, make sure I get it's accessible. Pick up on the lunch break kind of thinking we hope I've actually switched that on its head and for good reason and for good results as well too. We have something which is our mini Clear Skin starter kit. So when you look at our data C we have packs so pre bundled kind of routines, let's call them again works perfectly in the skincare space. Our highest selling one is the Clear Skin starter kit. So four steps, really simple. Again education level is kind of lower from a skincare perspective. So anyone can purchase this, step into it, start using HeyButton and of course fall in love with it. What we actually did with the retail space so in that offline channel is create a mini Clear Skin starter kit. Now what that does is give the customer that experience in the offline channel. So actually on the shelf they're able to go hey, here's the routine to start me off with hey Bud. Of course as a little bundle it looks really great on shelf as well too. But that mini kit, the one online is full size. The one in offline is mini. That is an exclusive for our offline channel and it actually gives us the ability to create a conversation from both sides. D2C can get everything you want, except for that one. But it's about building your own routine, of course, getting discounts through build a bundle and things like that. There's always freebies. We do a whole lot of gw, PS and kind of merch at hey bud. That's all available online. However, we do need some driving factor for the offline space as well too. And that's where you get really strategic and kind of build that into the architecture of what we do. If it works online, let's deliver it in store, but a really different way to make sure that there's two conversations going on and two kind of triggers to purchase in different spaces.
Nathan Bush: I love it. And do you have any way to measure cross purchase of in store and online? So maybe a customer who discovers the mini pack in store and then coming back online to buy the larger version of it.
[Voiceover]: And you know what this is as an E commerce person as well too, as part of this, it is challenging because what do we have access to online? Anything and every piece of data that we have time to find. So how did this person get to us the first time, how did they come back the second time? What are they buying, what are they not, what dropped off, et cetera, et cetera. And you can dive down. And honestly, sometimes even getting at a customer level when there's really high purchases diving in and understanding how they operate is so fascinating. Flick to the retailer side of things and the availability of data is really challenging. So it's a really traditional market, that retail offline space. Again, your big players in Australia obviously looking at the likes of Priceline, Chemist, Warehouse and then of course more premium and we're going Mecca and Sephora now they have access to incredible amounts of data. You look at the loyalty programs they've run for years and years since they started and they have it all in the back end of course not as readily available from a brand side of things.
Nathan Bush: So they give you access to any of that.
[Voiceover]: There are ways to purchase into data for different retailers, but purchase is the keyword there. And I think where we find our data for that offline space is more about looking at total market data. So of course we understand sales or products that are doing well, of course as part of that. Ours as well. What's performing, what's not the offline space as well too where you know, online we speak about this kind of one whole catalog. When we go into the offline space, we're talking about different bays. So in skincare, there's the mask bay, there's the natural bay, there's the acne bay. It's actually broken down to that level. So where the customer journey online is so easy to track in the retailer space, you have to get really savvy about how you finding your insights, how you're making your decisions as part of that and also how you're looking forward. So you know, forecasting on the data that you're seeing. Those little tweaks and changes in the offline market, they're harder to spot. But definitely as a business, if that's where your focus is, you want to grow, build, maybe launch new products, that's where your real focus needs to be, is what does the market actually want next. And understanding that from both the data C side of things, again, which is a little bit easier, even bringing in the kind of more market insights from online, but actually getting really smart about how you're looking in that offline space and the data that is available to you.
Nathan Bush: Yep, I love it. There's so much. I've got so many more questions there. But I want to bring us to your web asset because I think it's really interesting if anyone goes to the hey bud website, hey budskincare.com have a look at it because you're on Shopify.
[Voiceover]: We are, yes.
Nathan Bush: But it doesn't look like a off the shelf Shopify store by any means. Really unique homepage and product pages. Specifically the homepage I want to start there because it is very visual. It's almost like you've got a full page takeover as the starting point of the homepage rather than the traditional banner carousel proof point. It's very large image in your face. How did you land upon that as one of your most central pieces of real estate? How did you land upon that design which kind of breaks the mold from a lot of other e commerce sites.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, for sure. And I think this is one the homepage I can't take much credit for because again, stepping back into where hey budded, we ran D2C for about two years before we really kicked off anything. And what we had during that time was of course three incredibly passionate founders who know the D2C and kind of ecom space back to front. And so of course there was incredible amount of kind of testing going back and forth, doing all those AVs and things like that to find what worked for our customer. And I think when you look at our homepage at the moment, again that above the fold it is, it's one image, especially when you jump on mobile with just, hey, this is what we do and shop. Now, when you actually look at the images as part of that, it's exactly what we're telling our customers throughout the journey to get them there. So if we kind of pull out, like, let's say pull out the page media channel in our ads for paid, you're going to see a lot of customer reviews, you're going to see a lot of ugc, you're going to see a lot of people recommending, hey bud. Now when they click through great, they're kind of like, oh, that looks exciting. I'm going to see what this brand is all about. The first thing they land on is a page that says, hey, here's a whole lot of images of people. It's where you've just come from against what we're telling you we're delivering. We're telling you as well too about a couple of key concerns as part of that. So whether it's acne, whether it's, you know, breakout prone to skin, they're all kind of within that top of the fold messaging. And then of course there's any good homepage has a big fat CTA sitting there as well too, to make sure that they actually get to the collections page. But innately is actually kind of balanced back into who we are as a brand. But bigger than that, it's actually the customer journey. What did we tell them we were going to deliver them? They land on the website and that is the first thing that we absolutely serve them.
Nathan Bush: That's cool. So it's been there for a while. Are you still doing regular AB testing, heat map testing, UX testing on those key assets?
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And do you know what's interesting is of course, every time we launch npd, we're running a whole lot of, you know, all of our channels are firing for that npd, so of course that better will change. But interestingly, kind of chatting about it today because like any good brand, we are looking at a homepage refresh at the moment. So love that you've picked up on that. But again, the core principles behind what we're talking about, of why we've had that and why it's performed for so long is exactly what we're kind of bringing into that new homepage refresh is delivering people what we say we're going to deliver them. And I know that doesn't sound particularly profound, but it would be. It's so interesting to look at so many People in the market who maybe they're more aesthetically kind of leaning, and yet their paid ads are kind of screaming about this customer and that customer. Then you get to the homepage and it's just a pretty picture of their product, which of course is probably a stunning marketing image that someone like me has gone, oh, I love that one. But it's actually not telling the story that you told them that they were going to get. And so as part of that, again, that switch off that happens beyond that is, yeah, it's kind of inevitable.
Nathan Bush: I think story is a really good word for it. And especially when you go to your product pages because they are intense product pages. Like, there is a lot on those product pages. And if you go in and have a look, obviously you've got the product images in there, but there's a lot of video, there's a lot of how to, there's a lot of ugc. Are you ordering that in terms of priority? Because like you said, there is a kind of a formula that most E commerce brands will use. Yours doesn't follow that necessarily. Are you doing that based on what you think the customer's user journey is, rather than typical conversion kind of paths?
[Voiceover]: And I mean, when you break that down, it actually comes back to what we were talking about previously, where we spent two years intently focused on our customer behavior. What are they asking us? What are they not essentially the questions that you get asked by your customers, whether it's customer service, you know, social media outreach. They are the questions that you're not answering through whatever you're delivering them. So if people are constantly asking, how do I work this into my routine? It's skincare, or how do I use this? How do I layer this? You haven't answered that question for them enough that they've actually reached out. And if someone's, if one person has reached out, there's probably 20 people thinking it, and there's also probably 100 underneath that that they don't even know. That's the question that's actually roadblocking them. But that's the reason they're not purchasing at the moment. So pulling it back to that, what we actually have done. And when you look at our pages, absolutely, there's a lot of information on there. But we do operate in the skincare space. You know, on the flip side, if we were in another really trending, of course, ecom space, let's say activewear, there's a new collection every month, there's a new color every month, the product catalog is really big. So Again, volume of SKUs is large. We have a core range, and again, we have a whole lot of NPD that launches at appropriate times. But in general, we stick to a certain number that gives us a chance to truly optimize those pages, understand how people shop them, how far do they scroll down? Again, what customer contacts are we getting? Where are they asking the questions? Even today, as we speak on our Instagram story, there's a question up about, what do you want to know about? Is it an ingredient? Is it about a skincare routine? We consistently ask people that in the channels that we have access to and feed that back into the way we actually build the pages. It's not that we never want anyone to contact us, of course, but as part of that, that is kind of your success market is not only are people converting, but are those questions that they used to consistently ask you, have you already answered them? And again, what's the next one that you can actually jump on and fix as well?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I don't think customers will be unhappy with that. No one really wants to get on there and ask those questions of you. So if you're answering what's already out, that's fantastic. I guess that's a bit of a luxury, isn't it? Like with the business model that you're in, that you have products that aren't seasonal, that aren't churning, that you can actually put effort into developing those product pages that will stick around over years.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, for sure. And I think especially when we review a brand like, hey, bud, we do have a very distinct tone of voice. We're a little bit cheeky, but still that premium element. But we get to, I use the word play a lot. We get to play and have a bit of fun. And actually, again, the copywriting, the kind of making sure that it flows in that balance of science and kind of tone of voice is really challenging. And it's one of those things where you think, oh, cool, a couple of paragraphs of copy, I'll just knock it off in a minute or, you know, send it off to some chatbots somewhere and it'll solve the problem. So it takes a bit of investment in terms of, hey, is this actually worthwhile for us from time, and obviously sometimes cost as well with third parties, but it actually has a key purpose behind it as well. So again, it's building the brand. Brand builds loyalty. At the end of the day, it's not necessarily the product or the promo that builds the loyalty. It's actually that brand building and so investing back in that yes, step by step. We are very lucky in a space where we get to create product pages that we get to optimize time and time again. However, I like to think we take full advantage of that as well and kind of support the customer journey with that, making sure they're getting what they need at every stage.
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[Voiceover]: Now we are a startup at our heart and core of what we do, so we do love any sort of new technology. ChatGPT is absolutely on my book box. You can get it pretty close is what I'm going to say. Absolutely. There's some incredible prompts that get saved and popped into a notion board somewhere and kind of roll out every time we need it. It gets us 98% of the way is what I'm going to say. But I think the great thing about what we do is we have the base of the copy already there. Again, it's probably more sciencey to begin with. And then we actually play with tone of voice and build it into something that our customers respond to as the voice that they know from hey bud.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You've got to get the tone right before you can train a GPT up. One of the quotes that I came across from you before interviewing was big budgets make people lazy. I love that. And you did reference there that you still see yourselves as a startup. And I can see from the activity that you've done you do a lot of non traditional marketing and a lot of experimental stuff to try and stretch those budgets and to make noise and to get attention that the l' oreals of the world might not be able to do or be willing to do. Tell us about some of your favorite activations that you've done recently.
[Voiceover]: And you know what, genuinely love that quote. I think when you come into a space where the budgets are smaller, you are watching every dollar, you're checking the performance and you're truly understanding more about maybe what you want rather than, you know, even just in any big brand operating. Quite often performance is really measured by a PowerP that gets delivered at the end of the quarter versus what we're doing here at Habard is we are just hyper focused on growth. So making sure that every dollar spent actually has a purpose, has a reasoning and hey, if it doesn't work it's a learning and you just keep moving forward. So looking at that, I think some of my favorite haybite activations we've done are truly the ones that on formal budget sheets actually a zero cost. So I think a big one that will follow us around for quite a while is the Taylor Swift activation that we did earlier this year. So to give you a bit of behind the scenes behind that thought to ourselves, cool. Taylor Swift is coming to Australia. I have a feeling that's going to have an impact on the market. I think that was a pretty safe bet that one.
Nathan Bush: And I can guarantee that conversation happened around most brand tables. But it's what you do with it, right, and what you execute on that's important.
[Voiceover]: And I think even bigger than that, that conversation happened for us, I'm going to say in July last year before she actually came into the market. It was February, March. So we thought about it early. And the reason that we thought about it is, is when you have smaller budgets, one of the really fantastic strategies you can take is having a think about who is doing the hard work, doing the hard yards and sometimes spending the money to actually bring your target market together at a location in a space in a community that you can actually then infiltrate and target. So that guerrilla style marketing at its core, where is everyone that you want to talk to going to be in the same place to make it efficient for you at the end of the day. So Taylor Swift, we again got onto it early. We decided we had a few Swifties in the office as well too, which helped helps. But we decided to make hey bud themed friendship bracelets as well to obviously a really core part of what Taylor Swift community loves. So we weren't just coming in and handing out products that didn't really have a fit, it was just kind of that was a sampling activation. Oh cool, we'll do that. We actually worked to think about the community that we're going to enter, that we're going to tap into and actually making sure that they're getting something from it as well too. And the results from that campaign were incredible. Not only that did we do the Melbourne one, our office, this is based in Cremorne in Melbourne, so very close to the mcg. It went so well the first week, we actually sent some of our team to Sydney the second week to continue it as well. So we had national media coverage here in Australia, but also globally as well too, which is incredible. Kind of from a brand that again from a traditional budget sense that was a zero cost activation. But the incredible part behind that is the pre thought and the strategy. So these creative ideas, you need to create space in your business for people to think. And that isn't, hey, it's five, you know, 10 past five and I need you to think of the best creative idea ever. Of course it's not the right space for it. It's about actually getting really strategic thinking long term, but then pulling back into the now and going, hang on, if that's happening in six months time, is there something I could achieve now that would actually tenfold it in a really again cost efficient way as part of that?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I can imagine that you and the team aren't sitting around twiddling your thumbs going we've got nothing on, we're a bit crazy at the moment. How do you create space for you and your team to think creatively, to have those moments at the right times, to be able to pull off those low budget but big impact activations.
[Voiceover]: I think what's really important in marketing space is finding a team around you that loves the data, loves the insights, love really important, kind of insightful, driven decisions. But on the flip side, those decisions and those kind of actions are actually made tenfold with creative ideas to bolster them. You know, creativity comes in all form. It can be about project management, solving problems in different ways before it's not, I'm not talking creative as in getting on and doing a design and Photoshop kind of thing. And again the challenge is, is where people's brain are kind of stuck in the bau, the admin side of things, the day to day that doesn't create a space where you're supporting that. And so again a big thing for hey bud. And personally, anyone who's worked either with me or reported into me knows is I'm all about that. Efficiency piece. And essentially what I what we want to happen as a business and as a team and as a leader in the business as well is I want the team around me to be able to achieve their BAU tasks. So let's say, you know, we're pumping out campaign email every week. That's a standard. We know that. We've done that for years. How do you get 10% faster on that and then take that 10% and actually put it into the big thinking? One of the core hey Bud values we have is around blue sky thinking. So you're probably going to have 10 crazy, wacky, ridiculous ideas and only one of them is probably going to be actually impactful enough to go, yeah, actually this is something we can pull off and it's worthwhile, but you need to be able to think about those 10 to actually hit the one at and again, coming back to hey Bud's values, another one of our core values of what we do is about failing fast. So doesn't matter if you try something and it doesn't work out, if you at the time of making that decision truly believe that was the best choice, doesn't work out in the middle for whatever reason, learn the reason why that didn't work out and just keep going. It's one of those spaces where I have never felt so empowered to make decisions and I've never felt so empowered to fail spectacularly, but just keep going. We learn really fast and I think from the learnings that you have as well from those failures, that's where you're going to kind of pick up the fastest and actually get that true growth out of it.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned notion before as a place that will store your GPT prompts that you've seen that will work. Have you got processes or places where you store ideas that may have landed on the cutting room floor as a not for now or lessons from past activations so that you can continually like document and go back to them.
[Voiceover]: Now I'd love to say I've just hopped on about organization and all that stuff now I have a personal notion board sitting somewhere in there that just has a whole lot of like one liners of me at 3am rolling over and going wow, have we ever thought about. And I've actually I had one from this week that's gone in there that I've already kind of sent off and got it started as an idea but but that's probably how my brain thinks. And the interesting thing is that's how I operate in that space and that Creativity, like, wow, pull something out of the air and then think about it. I want the team to actually figure out their own process for that creative creativity space. I think it isn't one size fits all in there. If I tell them, here's a prescriptive path to find the big ideas, the blue sky thinking, that's not going to work for everyone. And I think again, in a space where you're in a smaller business and there's less people, you need to be able to give them space in that creativity kind of area, let's call it, to actually figure out what works for them. And as long as the end result, we end up in the same critical path, the same process, the same platform, whether it's notional, you know, the likes of Mondays and Trellos and things like that, that's okay. But to actually get there, that's the hardest bit. You've got to give people the space to find what works for them there.
Nathan Bush: I love that advice. It actually echoes on from the conversation we had recently with Jesse Richardson, who when I asked him the question around, how do you get introverts to express their ideas and their ways of doing things? He's like, well, it's not around sitting around a table and then going, oh, you've been quiet. Can you give us your opinion? It's about creating the right spaces and the right environments that work for them, because what works for them will be very different from anyone else. So being able to create those right ways of thinking for individuals is really important to get the best creative outputs.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And again, in that small business space where you have, you know, under 20 people, under 30 people, the most important asset you can have sometimes is the team around you. And you hire people for particular reasons. There's something they see in them at the time when you go, right, that's what we need to bring into the business. And as part of that, as well, as you said, give them the space and find the way that they tick, the way that they want to input as well too. And they might be that kind of person that, yeah, 9am the next day you get this really lengthy email because their brain's been firing overnight. But you know, in the meeting, when there's kind of everyone sitting in there, everyone's drawing a blank, it's not just going to naturally spit out for them. So absolutely agree with that too.
Nathan Bush: Hannah, great chat. Thank you so much. You've shared so much around the hey bud story, the product, especially that Omnichannel split. I'm keen to know more what's coming up over the next 12 months. You've hinted at more retail expansion. What else is on the radar? What do we expect to see from hey Bud?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, and you know what, that leans back into the lovely word that we love, which is growth. But I always also always like to split this into kind of this month, this year and then kind of beyond. But this month I think we've got an exciting time. We've got two new team members starting this month for hey Bud. So really kind of bolstering out where the opportunities lie in future for us. We're hiring in the spaces as well too. So I think that's a really exciting change for us as a business again chasing the opportunity. When I think about this year again too. Yeah, you've kind of hit it there around. There's incredible opportunities to grow and continue that accessibility of our products for the Australia market and New Zealand market and beyond of course. And then I think long term for hey Bud. Who do we want to be in the beauty space? I think it's really kind of doubling down and as we continue to grow, absolutely still fire off those channels that are going to drive that end of the day revenue and of course customer acquisition. However as part of that, definitely do that with that dose of realness that hey Bud does like. I like to think no one else on the market can do it. I love it.
Nathan Bush: Well, if you do all that, happy days.
[Voiceover]: Happy days.
Nathan Bush: Hannah, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cut. If people want to know more about hey Bud or get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[Voiceover]: Probably start with a little store called LinkedIn and if you're Melbourne based as well too. If you ever see me at any marketing events please come up and say hello. But of course everything and anything that we do online is normally captured by our socials, both front of house staff, all the pretty pictures but a lot of the behind the scenes and of course feel free to connect as well and kind of we've got a couple of team members starting in the next week or so but of course the founding team as well too are always happy for a chat.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Card.
[Voiceover]: Thanks Ant.
Nathan Bush: What an amazing story so far. I love the origin story there of the three 20 year old gents starting this with inspiration from their mum. What an amazing story. And thank you to Hannah for giving listeners 20% off their first order of hey Bud products. If you're a new customer use the code ATC20. That's ATC20 on your first order. Order offer ends 31st of December. All right, there are many, many lessons out of that conversation with Hannah. Here are the three that I'm definitely going to be taking away with me. Number one Structured offline data. We talked a lot about the omnichannel presence that hey Bud have and how they are trying to understand their customer behavior. As Hannah mentioned, there is a multitude of data available offline. It may not connect perfectly with your online data, but it is out there. So be savvy with your data, particularly in the offline space. What do customers want next? Hannah, let us in on the little secret around that you can purchase data from retailers like Chemist Warehouse. Make sure that if you do plan on using this offline data, make it part of your wholesale negotiations from the start. Number two always evolve key info and FAQs. Obviously with hey Bud it was a bit easier because they've got a limited range and products that never churn. But the questions that you get asked by customers directly, through live chat, through phones, through email are the ones that you're not answering for them on your website. It seems easy, but a lot of retailers don't do this. For every customer that asks a question, there are 20 that want to know the same thing and many that don't contact you and don't buy. Keep a record of all the questions that you're being asked and make sure you implement them Both in your FAQs, product pages and elsewhere on your site where your customers might be thinking the same thing. And number three, go with your community. You don't always have to lead a community. Sometimes it's just as powerful to jump on board where your community is and try and add value, even if it's totally outside your realm. Identify where someone else has done the hard work to bring your target audience together and then create an activation to reach them there. But as we heard from Hannah with the Taylor Effect, it doesn't mean that you don't have to plan or be creative. Sometimes it can be even harder to amplify what is already a very exciting time and make your brand a part of it. Before you go, we'd love to invite you to join our free e commerce learning platform Add to CART Campus. Meet other professionals and learn from e commerce experts to take your business and your e commerce career to the next level. Register to join Campus at add to cart.com au campus now. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague. Or even better, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple. It really makes a difference.
