Locke Fitzpatrick: There's probably about 100k worth of fraudulent sales coming from your affiliate partner here.
Anthony Del Pizzo: The future is in another dashboard telling you what's happened. Build trust and then automate from there, because trust really is the foundation for automation.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Hey, I'm Lucky from lskd.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Hi, I'm Anthony from well and on this episode we talk about how LSKD and Triple well work together to move from dashboards to operations and how AI can help skyrocket their business.
Nathan Bush: LSKD are about to hand their ad buying over to a machine and if they point their 1% better every day motto at that machine, I'm a bit worried about what that means for the rest of us. Locky Fitzpatrick is the E Commerce Growth Manager at lskd. There is no doubt that you know the brand already. We have had their founder Jason Daniel on the show, but about five years ago back back when most of the story was about the community and the gear. They have gone up a lot of notches since 35 retail stores opened in five years, 28% growth last financial year, and on Black Friday night they did around $10 million in an hour and broke Shopify's APAC record in doing so. Locky has been there six years and he looks after E commerce across every region they trade in, as well as CRM, the tech stack, paid media, the lot. Joining him is a very special guest, Anthony Del Pizzo, VP of Marketing at Triple Whale and he dials in all the way from New York. Triple Whale are the exclusive analytics and reporting partners for ADD to cart in 2026 and they sit across more than 65,000 brands. They've just relaunched Triple Whale and as an operating system rather than an analytics platform. So Anthony, he has a bit of a job on his hands showing how powerful analytics can be when you combine analytics with real context and then automate the actions that's coming out of those insights, we're not just punching out reports and sending them around the office anymore. So in this episode we get into mobi, which is Triple Whale's AI layer and the automated media buyer that I was talking about before that LSKD were finishing on the week that we recorded. Locky also explains how the team pranked Jason by stealing his own bus last Black Friday and why an ad with Neapolitan ice cream background behind a jumper ran for 60 days and was hugely successful but nobody could tell them why. Before we get into it, this is a very special Wednesday episode which is brought to you by our partners at Triple Whale and we can only make episodes like this one, where a brand comes in and opens up its real numbers and the way that it's using platforms because of the partners who back us. So a massive thank you to the Triple well team for making this episode happen. And if you want the short version where you get all the tactics, all the tips, all the quotes that you need from this episode, make sure you go and subscribe to the Add to Cart newsletter where we send you a cheat sheet for every episode on the day that it's released. You can sign up at add to cart.com au all right, let's get into it. Here is the VP of marketing, Anthony Del Pizzo from Triple Whale and E Commerce growth manager, Lachie Fitzpatrick from lskd. Locky and Anthony, welcome to Add to Cart.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Cheers, Nathan. Thank you.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Nathan Bush: What a delight to have you both here. Locky, we know where you are. You are based on the lovely Gold Coast. Well, Logan, I'm not sure if we call you the Gold Coast. Anthony, you are joining us from the States. Thank you so much for joining us from the time zone on the other side of the world.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Absolutely, yeah. Calling in from New York City. Super excited to chat with you both.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful. Well, Anthony, before we get into today's chat, I'd love to give everyone a bit of an overview on your role at Triple. Well, we were lucky enough to have a Triple Whale episode a little while ago where we got into the basics of the platform. But I think this will be a great case study to unfold together. But tell us, what do you do at Triple Whale?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, absolutely. So I lead all of marketing at Triple. Well, I'm the VP of marketing. That's performance marketing, ecosystem marketing, events, product marketing, you name it. And so my team is really responsible for how we show up in market, how we position ourselves and all of our external assets, and how we think about how people describe, look, feel about Triple Whale. So we just recently went live with the rebrand. It was a big effort from a lot of folks on my team and across the org and so super excited to get that out in market.
Nathan Bush: How do you go about rebranding the whale?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, the thing that's nice is that we had such a great foundation that we didn't want to rebrand the whale. We knew the whale was always going to be there, but we really needed to catch our brand up to where our partners and customers. Like Locky. No, Triple Whale. We started as an attribution tool for Shopify brands that really got us Our hockey stick growth three and a half years ago and we've since really become a true operating system. I know we're going to talk a lot about that today, but our brand really didn't match where our product had evolved to. And we really wanted to ensure that we were modernizing it, ensuring that users who knew Triple Whale could understand the breadth of what we're doing. Like businesses like LSKD have realized and actualized. And so the rebrand was an expression of that as we think about modernizing the brand and reaching new audiences.
Nathan Bush: Well done. Because I was worried when, when the rebrand was happening that we were going to lose all the wonderful whale plush toys that are happening all around the world.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Never. Never. No. The playfulness, the funness of being Triple Whale will never go away. It's just building on top of that foundation.
Nathan Bush: Lovely and locky. Thank you for joining us. I think LSKD is one of those brands that everyone in Australia kind of has this, this weird sense of pride about. It's like the homegrown brand taking on the world. And you guys have done such an incredible job, especially over the last, gosh, five to 10 years. Tell us about what you do there.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Awesome. So I'm the Ecom Growth Manager at lskd. So my background's really in digital marketing and paid social. But at the moment I look after the E commerce channels across all regions. So your CRM, your E comm in the back end, your tech stacks and any kind of paid marketing.
Nathan Bush: Okay, little job.
Locke Fitzpatrick: There's a bit to do. Triple Whale has definitely been one of those platforms though, that's made a big difference because you can kind of have it all in one spot. And I feel like I've been with the brand for six years now. And as we continue to grow, you just start adding more channels and adding more channels. And what are these guys doing over here? Let's add that into it. And then you're looking in 14 places for the information to run the business. It's is nuts. But now it's kind of all in one spot, which has been. Yeah, I mean it's, it's meant that I have to do a lot more work, but there's more on my plate.
Nathan Bush: Well, it was funny. Even in our pre chat here, you were talking about, I was like, what are you doing? What's going on? We're recording this on Monday morning. Full disclosure. And you're like, I'm looking at the results from our new streaming campaign. And I'm like, oh, well, this is a bit different for a growth manager. Looking at. Looking at ads on a streaming platform from the weekend.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, exactly. I feel like if we're spending money on it to drive attention and growth of lskd, then it just falls in my bucket, which I'm happy to do. I love all of it.
Nathan Bush: Okay, well, let's give a little bit of background on the growth of lskd, because I think everyone would have seen the huge store expansion, the huge communities, the constant, you know, presence in social, and would assume that you're growing. But how do you quantify that growth, especially over the last 12 months?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, it's an interesting one for sure. You know, lskd, I think most people have seen it in the past five years, but next year we'll actually be celebrating 25 years of LSKD, which is insane. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: From the Loose kids.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah. It's not always been lskd. That's right. It's Loose Kid Industries. When it started in 2002 and it was motocross focused, it was stickers, it was hats and T shirts. And, you know, over the past 24 years, there's been this real growth and development into doing functional fitness of power. And in the last six, seven years, there's been this massive growth from wholesale to E combination and then opening 35 retail stores in the past five years. So it's a big story. And then when you're looking at the last 12 months, you know, the history of the brand obviously comes in and gives you that context of, okay, where we've come from to where we're going. But there's completely new measurement tools and what we're actually looking at to say, are we growing in the right way now? And, you know, in the last 12 months, we recorded 28% growth year on year. So we're stoked with that. That's awesome.
Nathan Bush: Anthony, with the view across all the brands that you look after on Triple Whale, is growth common, or are you finding that a lot of your partners are really diving into Triple Whale to actually do the other side of that as well? Because we're all hearing how hard the economy is at the moment. Is growth common?
Anthony Del Pizzo: It is, yeah. And I think Lockheed hit the nail on the head on his earlier point around just how his role has evolved. I think we're seeing businesses continue to become increasingly more fragmented as the market has forced us now to sell in more places, market on more channels, like go into retail, go into marketplaces. And so we're really seeing growth come from a lot of new Channels and the foundation from the existing channels like the metas, the Googles. But businesses at large are growing, which is really exciting. And I mean we have over 65,000 brands on triple Whale. And so looking across them we are seeing that their businesses are fragmented. So there's a need for fast reporting and a single source of truth and something that marketing and finance can actually align on. They have a lot of answers and so like they're not short on insights. Like I think every tool to lock you to your point and there's 14 tabs telling you either that they made the sale or that this is driving revenue. So it's really the trust that's scarce. And so we're really thinking about how we can continue to build that trust. To your point, a lot of different measurement modalities, not just no longer attribution is really enough as you continue to scale your brand to be able to build trust and then automate from there. Because trust really is the foundation for automation. And so we're seeing more and more teams try and build that trust trust layer so that they can then think about what can be automated, what can't and what stays human.
Nathan Bush: And I suppose you'd have to be careful about that, right? Because having used Triple Whale and I know some of the beauty of it is in its simplicity, being able to ask questions, get answers without getting too confused or you can grow granular if you want to, but actually being able to move quickly is really important. I guess you'd have to be careful about how much do you give to get that trust straight up first. What do you hold back in the background?
Anthony Del Pizzo: 100%. And I think that's where really like a thorough setup. Being able to really, really trust the data that's in Triple Whale and understand why the data in Triple Whale might look different from the data in Meta, from the data in Shopify from GA4, for example, and really getting a mutual understanding of hey, this is our source of truth and here's where we're going to make X and Y decisions off of versus others is so critical. And then having AI that layers on top of that is just totally. It allows you to move fast, but you need that trust layer first or else you're moving fast. A little bit blind like general AI can give you a confident answer, but it can be rooted in not your business and it doesn't naturally know it so might sound good, but it's exposing perhaps the blind spots.
Nathan Bush: I do love when my AI is very confident, gives me confidence until I start Doing things I like, oh, that was the wrong confidence. Locky, tell us, obviously you're using triple Whale as your source of truth. What are the numbers that you look for as when you're looking for growth, what are the key metrics that you're looking at that you trust that to make decisions on?
Locke Fitzpatrick: I mean, definitely the usual ones, right. But it's attribution is not this silver bullet solution. So when we signed on with triple Whale, it wasn't like, I mean we definitely did expect, okay, this is going to tell us what's really making money and what's not. And it does to a point. But it's not like that comes down to a single metric or a single attribution model. So a lot of what we do is compare, you know, your normal metrics, your roas and your customer roas for example, against okay, like what is the year on year result, what's the week on week result, how's it comparing? Is it moving up or down? And then actually getting, you know, moby to do the comparisons across channels, across attribution models. And that really works well to identify the position or the Persona that your different channels fill up in your kind of marketing journey or your customer journey. So you know, like Google Ads, really high last click roll ass, for example, it's because it's finishing off a lot of high demand interest that's kind of in the market already. People are just searching lskd, clicking the ad and then converting. So by being able to switch between these different attribution models, you're able to go, okay, this is the channel that's working for discovery. This is the channel that's working for finishing off all the intent and the engagement and being able to see that whole customer journey is really powerful.
Nathan Bush: I love that and I'm really interested to hear from you. You mentioned new customer roas and I feel like NCAC and NRO has been around kind of, but it's really coming to the forefront as a metric now with a brand like you. You're not an emerging brand anymore, you're established brand, I think it's fair to say. Is NCAC and NROAS still as important as ever or are you moving on to other metrics?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Well, to tell you the truth, from a digital marketing lens and an E commerce lens, this past year or two has been the first time that we've ever actually gone out to try and acquire new community through paid and through digital. We've never spent money on this in the past. It's always been Whoever's got the best signals in Meta, you know, they're liking enough stuff and they're engaging with it. If they purchased yesterday, they purchased a week ago. That's fine. We'll spend money on them to come buy again. Like, we have a really high returning customer rate in AU and NZ in our backyard. And it's also kind of part of our brand. You know, we look after our community. We try and do a lot for our community. We create a community, you know, so this is really. Actually, it's probably flipped. This is probably the first time that we're looking at these acquisition metrics and going, okay, what do we need to do now to keep growing? Because we're growing and, you know, We've got these 35 retail stores. They're getting new customers in the door.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Locke Fitzpatrick: New community in the door. But what are we doing in the digital space to do that as well?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, no, I mean, I think, Lucky you hit the nail on the head. It's that question of, like, it's not just what happened, it's what should we do next to drive growth is what we're hearing constantly. Like, that's what businesses are asking us. They're asking mobi, our AI operator, to your point. So Moby's our AI harness for E commerce, where we're taking all of the frontier models across anthropic, OpenAI, DeepMind, Rock AI and harnessing them for E commerce so that they actually understand what an E commerce business looks like and what metrics mean for your business. And so that, like, mental model is really that shift that we're seeing across all of our brands.
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's.
Anthony Del Pizzo: They're not coming to us for dashboards anymore. And that's what we believe. Really, the future isn't another dashboard telling you what's happened. It's a system really telling you what you should do next. You being able to converse back with that system so that you can really get to the root of, hey, can I trust this recommendation? And then being able to act right in that same system. And so I'd love to hear that that's kind of how you're thinking about it because we're seeing that same pattern across all of our customers.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah. And the building that business context into Mobi is what's been really powerful for us as well. You know, I can go. Here's my plan for the next 12 months. Here's where I want to spend PE my goals. Because it's not just where the best performance is. It's where you should Put your money. You know, we have underlying business strategies and business contexts that the AI won't understand and we don't tell it. So being able to load that in, as well as all the, you know, budgets and targets for what it should be achieving, according to us, has meant that it's actually able to make recommendations that are more aligned to our thinking than just here's where your next dollar is best spent.
Nathan Bush: I love that. And we definitely touched on that with Zach and Angus in our last episode. And where we got to at the end of that was saying, like, actually isn't the future of analytics and reporting not about the reporting at all. It's about the interactivity, it's the questioning, it's the examination. It's almost like a sparring partner with you as you're trying to come up with ideas for growth or potentially efficiencies, depending on what stage of business you're in and having that sparring partner. So I'm keen to understand from you, Locky, how are you then turning all the amazing recommendations that you can get? Because I can imagine there's no limit to the amount of questions that you or the team could ask it. How are you then sorting that into actions that you can take? Because it would be easy to get overwhelmed.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I mean, there's an unlimited amount of AI, PDF and HTML artifacts that whiz around the business on Slack, you know, and we're a really move fast business. So if someone sends me a 16 page PDF on why like this specific corner of some region is spending more on their third purchase than their fourth, it's like, what do you, what do you do with that? You know, just tell me what to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it comes down to, you know, how you work as a team as well, really, like how aligned you are on what your goals are and not just going out there to find interesting things for the sake of it, but actually thinking like what matters to the business now and if there is some deep work that we need to dive into or you find something strange and you start following the thread with Moby, then there needs to be action point at the end of it, you know, And I think if you just make that really clear within your team and you operate to that, then there's much more of, okay, here's what's interesting. Here's where what we're going to back rather than, hey, look at this new shiny thing.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I love that. And Anthony, you, you know, this is a big part of the rebrand for Triple Whale is putting it as an operating system, not an analytics platform. When you see best practice of using Triple Whale as an operating system where you can turn insights into action, what are the best brands doing to actually to lock his point, move fast with those actions?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, so I mean first and foremost they're taking action right within Triple well. So not only will Moby queue up actions for you to take and then you can approve them, but there are brands who are effectively automating portions of their media buying, some of which entirely they're media buying on Triple well through Moby. So True Classic is an example billion dollar menswear brand. They've automated their entire meta spend and they're just about to move on their Google and their TikTok spend. That's seven figures every month that they're automating entirely through Triple Whale through our Mobi Media buyer, which is a true media buying experience that's built really with our customers right now. It's very much a. Our Triple Whale context engineering team works very closely with our customers to ensure essentially that we can simulate the same way that they buy media but ingest all of their deterministic signals. How they think about okay, when they scale, when they pause, it's like essentially training a teammate that you would normally when you're onboarding, it's someone who's on your paid media team to then manage different spend for you and you can have Mobi automate that. So taking action in the platform is, is really the most effective way where you can not only understand what's happening in your business, get some ideas on what you should do with it, but then also execute right from the same platform. And so the cool thing about Moby is that you can kind of do that once and then if you like figure out, okay, hey, you know, if anything gets above over a three roas in this campaign on meta, I want to be able to scale that 10%, 20%. You can even set up an automation that Moby looks at all of your campaigns every morning to basically do that for you, rather than having to queue that up just conversationally each time. And so there's ways to set up really simply automations to automate not only your media buying, but different facets of your commerce and retail business to be able to say, okay, hey, I'm running this report every day, let me just automate it, deliver it in Slack. And so I don't really need to do the manual labor of even like asking the question anymore. And so those are really web brands And I know Lucky and Tim are doing a lot of that in MOBI and just seeing the outputs of not having to, to manually chat back and forth with your AI like you are with some other tools.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, we should have ours finished up by the end of this week. Our automated media buyer. So hopefully it's going pretty well at the moment. But yeah, it's going to be such a big lift. Right. When I think about how AI is kind of taking over E commerce, it's definitely, you know, started with uploading CSV files and talking to ChatGPT and then it got into calls artifacts and the MCPS. But now there's this real space where through mobi I can automate the simplest actions of media buying, which are, you know, cleaning ads like this went past these guardrails, turn it off. And when you're operating across five, six regions, it's difficult to really clean efficiently. It's not difficult, but it takes a lot of time and everybody in a team's got more skill than they should be spending on that in the amount of time it takes up. There's this interesting thing that's happening that's like, okay, so AI in these E comm businesses, you know, everyone's trying out different harnesses and different models, Anthropic and OpenAI and everyone wants everything in one place. You know, it's this like we're creatures of convenience. And so you have Shopify coming out with Sidekick and you have Meta with Meta AI and you have Klaviyo with Composer. But because Triple Whale is kind of plugged into these existing models with Anthropic and OpenAI and all the other ones, it's kind of a one stop shop. But then how do you make that work and compete with Claude and the mcps connect to all the other platforms as well. So I think that's a challenge that a lot of operators are going through at the moment. It's okay, Triple L can do this and it does it with a model that I like. But what happens if I use the model that I like and connect all the platforms myself through mcp?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, it's such a good question and I'm so glad you asked it. It's. And you hit the nail on the head. There's twofold. But having access to all of the models, knowing that every AI model has strengths and some are better at reporting, some are better image generation, some are better at copy. And so having access is a big portion, but sitting on top of your, your measurement data, that's really the Key that like. Well, we built what we call the context engine, which is really a semantic layer as well as all of our benchmarks. So essentially it's a multitude of different technologies that not only tell AI what is true for your business and how, what ROAS means for you, what NC ROAS means, but also for your size of business and for your vertical, what good looks like. So that it really has context and a reference point and then that sits on top of your attribution, your mmm, your incrementality. So that even if you were to pipe that data out via mcp, you're still missing that context layer that is so important that does provide access. So yes, you could pipe that data out to Claude, but then you're missing all the other frontier models. And so it still requires you to have to. Basically the same problem that we had with managing 14 tabs of different tools, you're basically doing that with AI tools. And that means having multiple subscriptions to GPT Pro, CLAUDE Pro and with Triple Whale. To your point, it's centered in one place for a simplicity, but also for the efficacy and of like the output that you're getting.
Locke Fitzpatrick: That's probably one of the weirdest things I've come across is that I have the aaa, MCP and claude, right? So I'm using CLAUDE to chat to Mobi, which uses CLAUDE to then pull the attribution back from all our different platforms back into claude. And I'm like, this is getting really weird.
Nathan Bush: We're here for it, we're here for weird. Don't worry about that. You know, Klaviyo came out with their MCP connector and they're very much, you know, moving towards actually the strengths in our data, whereas they launches a CRM and like, actually we know that we need to connect into your platforms and give your data access so that it can be interoperable between systems and give you those insights. But I think your insight there, Anthony, is really interesting too, is that you need that context. And I'm interested to know from you, with 65,000 brands on the platform now, are you going to start using that for benchmarking and giving the brands that do sign up to triple wow guidance on what's good and what's bad, like what their metrics mean in the context of their market.
Anthony Del Pizzo: 100%. So we actually already do that. We have benchmarks in our attribution dashboard that exists alongside of what you're looking at. You can see there's a filter that just says benchmarks and it is of Your peer group. So businesses of your size, in your region, in your vertical, and it shows you is, hey, what is the roas for this channel and how does that benchmark against my peer group? And it gives you that directional insight that then Moby of course has access to all of it. So Moby will use that benchmark data. It says many brands, like, I mean even myself as a marketing leader in B2B, it's hard to know exactly what good looks like for all the different places where we advertise. And so I'm very much, I wish I had something like that. But it's a huge piece of Moby's recommendations and it is something that we continuously build on is this collective knowledge where we're not sharing everyone's secret sauce, but really aggregately what's good for your industry and how can we help you get better.
Nathan Bush: And Locky, I could imagine you just open up the benchmarks and just laugh at them because you're smashing them.
Locke Fitzpatrick: No, honestly, I didn't know the benchmarks were in there. So I'm going to go have a look after this.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, we're all learning. We're all learning.
Anthony Del Pizzo: No, exactly. And Nathan, you hit a good question around or point around Klaviyo and their MCP and why like, I mean they just announced that they were like headless, how they were positioning themselves and I think that is still something where Triple whale. We built an mcp, work very closely with Clyde. We're in their MCP directory or with Anthropic. Excuse me. Because we know we don't want to limit where folks are using and like be able to send a whale data out. If someone wants to work in cloud, they can. To Lockhee's point, there are trade offs that you need to make because Claude just won't have the same access to your business data the same way that AAA will.
Nathan Bush: So Lockie, are you using a performance agency at all?
Locke Fitzpatrick: We do use performance agency for Google Ads. Everything else is in house.
Nathan Bush: Okay, and tell us, you might not want to give away all the state secrets. Give us away as much as you can. How are you thinking about automating ads then?
Locke Fitzpatrick: I think step number one is definitely this cleaning aspect. Right. We have a very clear idea on when a creative is going to perform and when it's not. And there's very clear signals for us in that space depending on the region. But when Spend gets over X dollars in this many days that it's been active and ROAS is below this number. Turn it off. Turn it off and we get some new ads in. Like it is rare for us to run any creative for longer than seven days. We put creative in, we take creative out. We have a massive in house creative team. We release 50 new products a week. We do three releases a week. There's no shortage of content for us. So it's really about speed and efficiency. And if you have a dead creative in there that's chewing up spend and it takes a day longer than it should to get to it, to turn it off, you're losing money.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, and I'm really interested in that because that's a huge lift, that amount of product releases as well as that amount of creative. What's your rhythm to getting that all live? Is that all on your shoulders?
Locke Fitzpatrick: No, it's on the team's shoulders.
Nathan Bush: You know, you're just taking no responsibility.
Locke Fitzpatrick: I think it's a huge amount of work and it's always been that way here. So I think it's very much part of the culture on how and why we do this. But it's a key driver as well. Like beyond, you know, going on sale all the time. Like newness is the biggest driver. It's, it's price and then it's newness and then probably exclusivity. So the product team do a great job designing, you know, they've created some really amazing stuff so that there's an actual point of difference that we can release something on a Tuesday and then a Thursday and then a Sunday, say. And there's actually a point of difference between those three things that will have different community coming back or the same community purchasing twice, three times in a
Nathan Bush: week, you know, even better.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, exactly. So it's, you look at it long term and there definitely are questions of, okay, how sustainable is this when our main drive from a marketing lens is this newness. But there's so much going on in the background with the brand events, with community marketing that it's not like we're only just trying to drive day to day trade, you know.
Nathan Bush: And Anthony, is that something you're saying that newness being so important for growth? Because you mentioned the true classic, which is a huge brand, a global brand. But from what I can understand, you know, they're, they're very much staples, they're very much what you expect may not have the newness of lskd. What are you seeing some of those growth strategies that are being unlocked 100%
Anthony Del Pizzo: on the newness piece? I mean, I think that's one of the biggest use cases we're seeing right now with MOBI is just creative velocity and diversity and you leveraging AI to take your best performing ads and make 50 of them and then ship those ads right from Triple Whale. I know. Kitsch is a multimillion dollar hair care and accessory brand that we've recently started working with. And their favorite use case of ours is, is that exactly where they're taking their best ads? Creating 50 new ones, testing which ones are working, scaling what the ones that they're seeing have success, cutting back the ones that maybe weren't the right fit for their audience, and then building landing pages off the ones that are successful also with mobi so that every ad has a personalized landing page with it, knowing that they have perhaps fewer design resources available. And so that newness is critical and very similar. We're seeing a lot of companies like LSKD move towards like, hey, we have many, many launches this fall and this winter. How do we think about building enough creative, building enough landing pages and ensuring the right assets are getting to the right people and that we're able to scale the ones that work? And so it's this really nice growth loop that we're seeing with Mobi and that's a pretty simple automation that can be set up in a matter of like less than 10 minutes. Is creating variants of your best performing ad and because it's based on your actual measurement data, you can trust that it's really your best performing ad across channels.
Nathan Bush: I was hoping for a different answer because I think every marketer is sitting going, well, we've got to create more, we've got to keep going, we've got more.
Anthony Del Pizzo: My team is my own team at triple. Well where, where we get stressed about it and so it's, it's something that we see it with our customers working, we're like trying to replicate that on the B2B side. So it's still a work in progress, but we're seeing a lot of brands find some early success, which is awesome.
Nathan Bush: We've talked a lot recently on add to cart around unicorn ads, finding your unicorn ads. And there's been a couple of episodes where people are like, I've had to put 10,000 ads out to find my one that's a winner and then when I find that one that's a winner, I might bank it and rest it and then bring it back later. Is that still a thing for you, Locky, or do you stick to that seven day rule?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Regardless, Definitely not regardless. You know, if something's working, we Keep it on. We keep it running for sure. Even if there's probably a typo on the copy, which our Community Experience team don't love. But if it works, then, you know, you keep it running. But because of the pure volume, it's just such a competitive environment in our ad account where there is just every AD's competing against every ad. And that is how you create the ultimate efficiency. Right. Like, if it's a unicorn, it should be anything else that comes into there. Indirect competition, no matter what age it is, no matter how long it's been running. In saying that, like, we definitely have those ones over the years that have stood out and have run for two months, three months, which have just been crazy. And we always try and replicate it and it never ends up quite the same way. But I remember one was this paneled sweater, and it was just an E Commerce studio shot. So it's a sweater with different stripes of colors on it, basically. And we just cropped out the background and put a Neapolitan ice cream behind it because it matched the same colors that were on the jumper. And that thing ran for, I want to say, like, 60 days. It just crushed for no reason. It looked horrible.
Nathan Bush: And then you try chocolate ice cream and it just doesn't work. And you're like, how do I replicate this?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Exactly. Yeah, you try and replicate it. And then it's just something tells you at one point in time you go, no, that could work. Like, let's just try. And that's something that we always make. A rule at LSKD is like this. You know, 80% do what you know works, 20% experiment, test. You know, there's definitely other departments that we've had to buddy up with and become friendly with because they see it and they get upset. Like our design and our graphics team, our content teams and community.
Nathan Bush: We spent months designing this product. And you've butchered it in your ads pretty much.
Locke Fitzpatrick: But if they're seeing it all the time, that means it's getting the spend and it's still on. That means it's working.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Your world is obviously a little bit more complicated than see an ad by a product. Given the store, network and the community element of your brand, where you actually want people to hang out together, where you want to be part of a conversation, how do you measure all those softer interactions and maybe the indirect interactions to know whether your performance is working?
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's a great question, and it's honestly one that we've been evolving over the years to answer. But as the business itself continues to evolve and we continue to go out to new places with new teams and open new stores in new areas, it's definitely something that we need to continually reinvent the wheel on. So, like, for example, you know, we have the simple QR code at events, right? We can run thousands of events a year. And so we want to know who's going to those events, what community is showing up and then be able to track their journey. You know, their first purchase is in store. Then they started showing up to events. Now they're online, now they're on the app. You know, we have those touch points that we can follow and track that journey. It's more about making that a more complete loop and having less. Less community fall through the gaps on that because there's so many touch points. And if they're showing up to an event, even if it's at a Hyrox or a, you know, turf games, where they're just coming to our booth, we want to know who they are, we want to talk to them, we want to know that they were that engaged that they wanted to come see us. So it's super important and is really about diligence and determination to connect the loop on these data points. It's not some magic solution. You know, you can think of the solution easily. It's making that the focus and going, no, this is the way that we're going to do things. This has to be done this way so we complete the picture.
Nathan Bush: I love that, but I reckon that must be a challenge for you, Anthony. As Triple wow continues to evolve, you must have people who go, I want to track customers from end to end and. Which almost pushes your product into a CRM or a personalization system. Not where you are today, definitely.
Anthony Del Pizzo: No. And that's the nice thing about having amazing customers like lskd, who are. Who are growing and expanding in new ways that marketing 10 years ago didn't have to worry about. Like a recent example of that is just the ingestion of retail data into our MMM in our measurement systems. We just got that live. We're working with a partner of ours, Alloy, but now we can ingest retail data from Sephora, from Target, from other retailers, to be able to then incorporate that into our marketing mix modeling, see how that looks eventually alongside of other business units with business data within Triple Whale, so that you can see it all in one place.
Nathan Bush: It's.
Anthony Del Pizzo: We're very much in. In phase one, but it's a huge, huge opportunity. As we think about retail is getting so important and so a story like that lucky just shows like, okay, yeah, at some point we're going to have to be thinking of other channels even besides retail and other ways that I mean we're constantly thinking of how can we ensure that to be a source of truth we have to have all of the data and the most as many signals as we can and normalize those signals in a way that's easy for brands to understand.
Nathan Bush: I was hosting an event last week, ipx and one of the things that kept coming up was how do we measure influence? And I think that's a really interesting question like how do you put a number on just an influential interaction, whether that be an influencer mentioning a brand in passing, whether that be an article that someone's read. Like there's so many little points of ChatGPT for example, you know, a lot of them don't have citations or links but we know they're having an impact beyond that direct visit. I think influence is going to be really interesting to want to measure soon.
Anthony Del Pizzo: 100%. It's very top of mind for us as we think about work like AI search and not only tracking, like okay, we get referral source if someone does click on a link to your point but if they don't then ideally we're are all of our brands are adding that within a question in their post purchase survey so that then we can get that data and then identify okay, hey, based on, on your post purchase survey data, especially if you're using our total impact model which incorporates those survey results, then we can at least model that out to say, you know what, like your attribution is showing if your clickbait attribution is showing meta. But actually more customers are saying they're influenced by ChatGPT and that's a really at least like step one of how can we get a little bit closer to the ever evolving way of brands are being discovered right now.
Locke Fitzpatrick: And have you made that post purchase survey, Anthony? You beat that up a little bit. I think since we actually broke it about a year and a half ago, we got 10,000 responses in the space of an hour I think. So it went down for like two weeks and I was like, what's going on? No one's answering this thing anymore. They've just given up. And then we heard back from triple whale engineers and they're like, no, that's it seems you've broken it.
Nathan Bush: Is that one of your mantras? Move fast and break shit?
Locke Fitzpatrick: It is yeah, yeah, that's one of our values.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, it's breaking everything. No, I mean, that's pretty impressive that you're breaking our systems too. So. Yeah, but exactly like, I mean, you're no surprise that you're already ahead of the curve there.
Nathan Bush: How are you measuring your successful influencers and content creators, Locky? How. How are you knowing which ones are working?
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's a really good question as well. I think there's a bit of instinct over measurement involved for sure. I mean, beyond just the discount codes and the affiliate links, it gets to a point where you go, okay, who are we actually wanting to work with? How do they represent brand and how does that content align to our brand and our values and our mission of 1% better every day. And you've got to weave that into your decision making about how you're working with these different creatives. But I will say, like, one thing we're looking very closely at at the moment is our traditional affiliate platform and how we've worked with them. It's not a space that I think probably really aligns with the brand anymore. And we've gone through different stages that we can talk about of how we've, you know, built this and then taken it down and torn it apart and going back to it. But I think, you know, the future really is more in that creator space than this traditional affiliate space. So it'll be my next challenge to kind of dive into the create attribution for sure.
Nathan Bush: I understand that you had a pretty major discovery using Triple Whale around some interesting activity that was happening around your affiliates.
Locke Fitzpatrick: I did, I did. So one of the initial rollouts of Moby we were using to do this cross channel audit each month on, you know, how much is each channel contributing according to all of the different attribution models. And then, you know, basically told it to give me its thoughts on, on what it thought about those results and what it meant that it varied so much between the different models. And to be honest, I remember talking to your COO about this at well, Anthony and he said, how did it do it? Because it came up with a recommendation at the end it just said there's probably about 100k worth of fraudulent sales coming from your affiliate partner here and the affiliate platform, but there was no real obvious way and that it determined that. And then we got our dev, our head of technology, to do some digging and we looked into, okay, which orders are being claimed by this particular partner in this affiliate network and where's it come from. And they were bidding on Google branded ads, basically with our brand name, which is a bit of a no, no. And they were also doing some other stuff with IP situations which was a bit dodgy. So Moby was able to identify that. And to this day I still don't really know how.
Nathan Bush: So just let run it straight. So someone that you were paying that if they clicked on a link or whatever it was and came back to LSKD and transacted via you, you were giving them a cut of that sale. They found out that it was actually cheaper for them to run paid traffic on your brand terms to get that traffic and to get that sale. And the clip that they were getting was more than the cost of buying
Locke Fitzpatrick: that ad, running the ads. Yes, that's correct. And how I knew, once I got out of that Moby discussion, how I knew which partner, which affiliate it was was pretty obvious because it was some kind of Chinese social media network website and it was claiming all these sales from our Australian business, which they actually check out and ship to Australia into any other country but Australia through this Shopify store. So that was immediately a red flag. And then the head of technology was able to kind of dig up the proof to back me up. But I actually went on a call with these guys and it was the strangest thing because they were doing a call with me and showing me a deck, but they were AI ing the deck to show the next slide. Be what we just discussed in that conversation then is serious interesting. Wow.
Nathan Bush: Real time deck building.
Locke Fitzpatrick: There's somebody in the background typing. And then the other person was talking to me. And then as I discussed. Okay, well this doesn't make sense because it's only Australian, you know, community that can check out on that site. So you couldn't have claimed it through this, you know, Chinese platform. It just came up and it said, no, this is how many we have in Australia. This is like how it works. And I was like, that's nuts.
Nathan Bush: Actually, you guys keep the hundred grand. You're too smart for me. Don't worry about it.
Locke Fitzpatrick: I almost said have it. You know, you deserved it.
Nathan Bush: Anthony, is that something that you find once you kind of open the black box for people and allow people especially to search in real language? Are they finding stuff that they've kind of been sitting on for a long time but just never had the data or way to interrogate the data to make those big changes?
Anthony Del Pizzo: They are, yeah. And I think Lockheed kind of hit the nail on the head of like thinking about it in between systems. Like, I think the Biggest discoveries we're finding are not found like hidden in a singular dashboard. They're in gaps between systems. So like an example of this is like, okay, I mean I think the affiliate. But like we see this with retargeting or branded search, like taking basically demand capture, disguising it as creation and like inversely like on the operational side we see like there's operational leakage that Moby can catch pretty often or that could be like duplicate lifecycle flows, broken tracking your setup, integration setup is incomplete. Or there's like manual reports that aren't really operating as they were normally intended to. And then one I think that's really interesting is like exceptions that are hidden by averages. So it's easy if you're looking at aggregate, okay, hey, things look healthy. But creative fatigue, like that is a huge one where, especially if you're running the volume that you need to to succeed today, creative fatigue can be really hard to spot early before it's too late and you're like wasting spend. That's a great use case for Mobi as well as like unusual spend. Like if one ad has scaled more than you anticipated, you really haven't understood, like looking at just the aggregate of what your spend is, MOBI can really pinpoint, hey, this, this seems off and alert you immediately gets too late. Or if it is too late, then you can at least like do some back work like Lockheed and team did to really pinpoint as to, okay, what is the root cause of this and how can we ensure that that doesn't happen again?
Nathan Bush: One of the smartest things that I think is in Triple Whale is the ability to add extra costs in there. So not just ad costs, but you can put your agency costs, your operational costs and everything else to get a fuller picture of your marketing investment. Do you see many people doing that, Anthony?
Anthony Del Pizzo: More and more, like, just as we try and build trust around profit and thinking about, hey, if we really want to trust this as a business, more and more businesses have different variable costs and being able to add that in and then edit those over time is so, so, so critical. So, yeah, we're seeing a lot of businesses uptake that more. Especially as we think about, hey, if Triple Whale is your source of truth, it's really going to have to, I think my earlier point, like every single signal cost so that you can really trust it.
Nathan Bush: Are you doing that lock here? Are you putting everything in there?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, everything goes in there. Absolutely everything. CFO is, you know, a really key part of the team here. He's Been along for the journey for six, seven years, just like me. I've had the privilege to work, like, really closely with him. And so a lot of the information that I'm able to get from him about, okay, here's all the costs, you know, like with our kind of business, only not our whole spend is this digital marketing spend. Most of our marketing spend isn't purely digital. You know, it's boots on the ground, it's connecting with community. That's got to be laid into a point. And it can't just happen with the cfo, the finance team. At the end of the day, like the rest of the team has to see that. So one big metric we operate on is contribution margin per visit, which is pretty much exactly the same as revenue per visit, except it's looking at contribution margin. So you're filtering in all your costs there. So you can look at region by region. Okay, where is actually the next dollar best spent? Between these regions, between the channels. But on top of that, you know, once I have that information, how did I then align that with our business strategy of these regions? Which ones are more important than others?
Nathan Bush: What does a good contribution margin per visit look like?
Locke Fitzpatrick: It varies a lot, but I think like a really good one on a, like an average month would be like a dollar eighty.
Nathan Bush: Okay.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Okay.
Nathan Bush: And does that determine then where you make other investments, like new stores?
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's more about where we want to play in business strategy that determines new stores. You know, I think this data on where we're spending money to make money is super important, but it's got to layer into the overall strategy of, okay, there's 350 million people in the US if we want to become a billion dollar brand, yeah, we have to be there. We have to take over us. So that kind of business strategy and that goal kind of trumps any kind of great contribution margin you might be seeing in New Zealand or Singapore, for example.
Nathan Bush: Okay, that's amazing, Anthony. You're going to see lskds everywhere over the US soon.
Anthony Del Pizzo: I will say I've been seeing lskd all over some workout studios here in New York. It's awesome to see. Really, really great. So it's only a matter of time.
Nathan Bush: That's so good. Well, as we come into Black Friday, we're recording this in the middle of September, Locky. Black Friday. I could imagine all your plans locked away. You're sorted, you're ready to go. Nothing's left to the imagination by now, right?
Locke Fitzpatrick: No, everything's left in the imagination. We have A real loosey goosey approach to Black Friday. We always have. And I think like part of it is because of, you know, we put so much on that night. One last year we broke Shopify APAC records for most sales in an hour, doing 10 million in about 60 minutes.
Nathan Bush: Can you stop breaking shit of other people's, please?
Locke Fitzpatrick: We can't help it. It's just what happens, you know. But then we always wait for that result to then determine what the rest of the sale is actually going to look like. So there's definitely some things that are kind of locked away and we're prepped for and you know, there's even some strategies and campaigns that were launched earlier to kind of warm up for September and October leading in that are underway and doing well. But yeah, there's still so much that's up in the air that's kind of like we'll just, you know, see how it goes. We'll make a decision later.
Nathan Bush: It looks very well planned on the outside given that, you know, I've seen before you kind of black out your website for the weeks leading up to it. You've got the special sales on the app. It, it feels very considered.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, no, we, we uploaded the pricing list into Shopify 45 minutes before we went live last year. So it's good that it looks polished from the outside, but it's, it's a lot of move fast on the inside.
Nathan Bush: That's fantastic. Anthony, what are you predicting for this Black Friday, given that you've got the view across 65,000 brands, do you feel like it's going to be a smash and grab effect of like whatever sales we get or will there be more focus on to lock his point, that contribution margin, that profitable growth? Yeah.
Anthony Del Pizzo: So I think looking at last year's Black Friday, we saw it was massive in regards to the amount that was spent, just like record setting profits that were seen from our brands. So it was like a twofold as well as the length in which people were running sales, people were purchasing. It was. I feel like every year Black Friday and Cyber Monday just gets longer and longer and longer. Having been known E commerce for years and so I think it's going to continue to build off of that because all of the data is showing that Same Direction through 2026. And so we're really getting our brands LSKD included kind of how can we support them during this time knowing that transparently, like we at Triple Whale believe like we should be nimble. We want our customers to be able to be Agile like lskd. So that plans shouldn't be locked in place right now. But the things that should be locked in place are like the decision processes and the rights around those. Like how do you think about, okay, what's our testing window? What are the approval rules for alerts, budgets, Creative, like inventory, risk, like how are we setting up those operational rigor tactics rather than just the hard plans themselves, knowing that even in the next 60 days we're going to learn a lot and we're going to want to be flexible to be able to achieve that. But having that kind of operational rigor is so critical now so that readiness doesn't get tested too late, essentially.
Nathan Bush: I love that and I'm keen to hear from you, Locky, because you've surprised me here by saying that you're fast and loose with your Black Friday plans. You've thrown off all the questions that
Locke Fitzpatrick: I've got for you.
Nathan Bush: What are the signals that you're looking at for the next 60 days to know what kind of promotions you're running, what channels you'll be, how deep you go with your discounts. What's really critical for you over the next two months to make that last minute decision?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Well, I don't think any of the data in the last like 60 days is going to heavily influence, you know, our offer. It's really been the same offer each year. It's more about structuring the spend. Right. Like we spend 70% of our ad spend for the sale in the week before the sale launches. So we're spending it before we're able to make any money, which is terrifying when you get to the last couple of days. So it's really just looking at the data from last year, from the year before and going, okay, here's how much traffic we usually get in that seven day hype period. Here's how many of them sign up. Of the ones that don't sign up because they're already signed up because we're advertising to mid funnel, bottom funnel people is how many actually will convert anyway. So is the different metrics and markers to be stressed and not stressed or worried and not worried and you know, figuring out how we rope in retail to that as well with our 35 stores, you know, we have to have the same offer so people can be going into store and getting the same kind of thing. Which different programs do we have running or not running like GWP ship from store. Bulk of that is kind of already decided. It's more just like it's not a Super polished. Okay. Day one's this, day two's this, day three's this. Because what you do later depends on how well day one went.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Didn't you steal a bus or something
Locke Fitzpatrick: last year was that we pranked our CEO and founder by stealing the Bath Bus, we call it. So we toured around like regional Queensland and some other states with this bus giving out gear and we made it look like someone broke into the office and stole the bus and put it down the road. And that was a really good pre hype strategy because he really fell for it.
Nathan Bush: Was that legit? Jace actually thought someone had stolen it.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, because we had, we had security footage. We had enough of like key people in the team that were in on it where we could make it look real. Yeah. But it was also some good acting as well by our cfo, especially, like he really pulled through, which I didn't think he had that kind of talent. So that was wild.
Nathan Bush: Oh, that's so good. And given that you've done this Black Friday promotion incredibly well over many years now, are you just looking at year on year to make your predictions and like you said, get confident with your predictions. Do you care around what the economy's doing or what the murmurs are around, interest rates and all that sort of stuff? Or you're like, we've got enough data, we've done this for long enough that we'll follow our trends.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, we don't care. You know, people can worry about this external environments and to a point, we are obviously affected because we are a business just like any other, but part of, you know, we're building this community, we're building this brand. We have these values, we have this mission of 1% better every day. And it's genuine and it's real and it's what we're trying to build here. But it also has a side effect of building a bit of a moat around our us and competition. So when it comes to, you know, I know there's brands that even wait till we announce our date to then figure out when they're going to go live and make it the morning of or the day before. You know, that's just a great way to guarantee second in place. It's not something that we concern ourselves with because we know the trends and we know our community and we just focus on ourselves and we focus on the community, not the competition.
Nathan Bush: And Anthony, for brands coming up to Black Friday who are still putting their plans together, what do you think should be on the radar for them? Do you think there's any new channels or new opportunities that they should be exploring that you're seeing across all of your brands?
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, no, it's a great question. So I would say one that comes immediately to mind is Axon and Applovin.
Nathan Bush: Oh yeah.
Anthony Del Pizzo: We just did a massive study across all of our brands. Found some really strong incrementality especially as we think of middle and bottom of the funnel. So really great for retargeting, really good for demand capture and it's just a really strong channel overall and we're seeing more and more businesses move some spend there. So that's, that's a big one.
Nathan Bush: So for anyone who doesn't know Applovin, from what I understand, you tell me differently. Is a lot of the mobile game advertising, is that right? That's a big part of their offering.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Exactly. It's the biggest part of their offering is advertising within the mobile game ecosystem.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Wow.
Nathan Bush: I've seen some incredible results from that recently.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Really?
Nathan Bush: It feels like they've just establishing a presence in Australia.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Love to hear that. I think we really started seeing uptake on two Black Fridays on Applovin where we saw a lot of investment two years ago and now continue to see that it's been sustained if not even higher because of just the incrementality that we're seeing there. So that's a big one good too. I think we're also seeing TikTok Shop be a really, really good for specific verticals. And so I think there's, there's a really good opportunity to test that if you haven't and think about okay, how do we run a few tests but stick to Locky's point what's tried and true if things have worked in the past and if they haven't, it's how do we then think about those tests ahead of time, get some early signal and then scale what tests are working when we know the traffic and the eye attention are going to be there?
Nathan Bush: Yep. Either of those interesting for you, Locky?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, we went down the app loving route but it's not really something that I saw a lot of potential in. For us in particular, we've done in app game stuff before but then yeah, I mean it's just the signals and what we're seeing from it we didn't really like. But that's just us, you know.
Nathan Bush: Okay. And TikTok Shop. Are you on TikTok shop in the US almost.
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's been such a journey. We opened our 3PL in the US in October so that was Kind of like our green light to start the journey to get on TikTok Shop. And it's, it's almost there. It's almost ready.
Nathan Bush: Okay. You probably hear more than. You both hear more than me. TikTok Shop Australia, I'm hearing early next year again. The rumors are firing up again. So I'm hoping that we might have another channel here in Australia by Black Friday next year.
Locke Fitzpatrick: It's like one of those, you know, TV shows that you think are going to come back, though they keep teasing that the next season's around the corner or GTA 6 or something. I don't know. It's been a while. Yeah.
Anthony Del Pizzo: I mean, fingers crossed.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Fantastic. All right, so tell me, where do you both focus for the next 12 months from here? I'm going to start with you, Locky. I'm keen to understand as you look forward to closing out 26 and then continuing your growth through 27, what are the things that are going to make you successful as LSKD and continue that growth?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yep. AU&Z acquisition through ECOM is one of the biggest ones. You know, we want to keep growing this key channel that is, you know, supplying a lot of the growth for the rest of the business. We want to be able to contribute just like our retail stores do in getting new community into the business. So au, NZ acquisition, definitely a primary focus. Next up would be US and like UK expansion. US is definitely like number one. But I know like a lot of like Aussie E Com based brands at the moment, UK has been popping off and going nuts. So we'll kind of follow that to see how it goes. But you know, really making our mark in the US is the next point of call for us. So those two focuses, I don't really like having 17 priorities, I like having two or three. But you know, the founder is definitely. Jason's the kind of guy to have 17 priorities. So let's see what else gets added to the list.
Nathan Bush: Your priorities are his priorities.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Nathan Bush: Have you got a team in the US at the moment? You mentioned 3 PL there. It's something that we're hearing a lot of people talk about at the moment of expanding into the US from Australia. Whether you need to set a team up in the US straight away. What's been your approach?
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, it's been an interesting approach. We had a team member in the US before we had an office or a place for them to work. You know, they would be going and getting their product delivered and then popping up at gyms down in San Diego, driving two hours to get there, driving two hours back home, and just engaging with the community. So it's been a slow burn for us, but it's always been boots on the ground. It's a core component of it. So we've got a store in our office in San Diego and we've got a team of 10 to 12 that we've always kind of had in that space. And now we're looking for kind of expansion into other states. And what that looks like.
Nathan Bush: Very exciting. I feel like everyone's moving to Texas at the moment, by the way.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Yeah, maybe. Yeah, Texas seems to be the spot.
Nathan Bush: Anthony Triple Whale, what is happening over the next 12 months? I can imagine you're not sitting still.
Anthony Del Pizzo: No, not at all. It's exciting. We're really, really focused on closing the distance between signal and action without sacrificing trust. I mean, I think that is like the epicenter of everything we do. And so that materializes in a few ways. Like, first is like operationalizing measurement and the different measurement methods that we have in Triple Whale. So really making attribution. Mmm. And incrementality part of the normal rhythm rather than just isolated analyses. I think we're seeing more and more businesses as they've had to expand channels, realize the importance of other measurement methods and how they all work in concert together. And so really ensuring that we can work with more brands on how they can feel more confident in what's driving revenue for their business by looking at different focal points, which then in turn will ultimately deepen Mobi's business context. So, like, having a strong measurement foundation, getting more signals can really help Moby understand, like, what decisions should Moby do for your business and how does your business operate? Like, all the different channels, both from a marketing and sales channel perspective, how they all operate and how Moby can help you optimize them. Really looking at the business in aggregate and then turning all of that into automation. So whether that's recurring analysis, recurring workflows, recurring actions, whether those are media buying. So I think, like, you'll see more and more from the Triple Whale side as we think about our Moby media buyer and excited to get lskd fully onboarded there, but thinking about how we can help businesses automate the deterministic and repetitive aspects of media buying and focus on all of the exciting workflows that they have around. New products, new creative to then really think about, okay, how can we help them scale their business more? And so it's Going to be a. I like to say we're laser focused, but we have a lot of different priorities.
Nathan Bush: You got multiple lasers focused.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah. But like, ultimately it's not just more AI activity, it's just, it's better decisions and more useful work getting done, whether that's by our customers and by.
Nathan Bush: Well, it's a fascinating position you're in because you're obviously doing a lot on the tech side and the product side about changing how people are accessing analytics and insights. But I can imagine there's a lot of change management that you're doing as well with people who are typically looking at dashboards and then providing insights out into the business and going, oh, my report's done. And it's like, actually, no, now, like this is the start and now you can automate things and make actions and like the job isn't finished.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Exactly.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Anthony Del Pizzo: It's a, it's a fun moment because I think what we were formerly known for years ago of dashboards, we're now being like, hey, that's no longer enough. And having to re educate our audience of like a dashboard doesn't get you to the decision and action point. We're going to help you get there. But it's more than that. And so it's, it's a, it's a fun journey to be on with our customers.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. This was a fun conversation. I really enjoyed it and I feel like we've just scratched the surface on all things growth and analytics and insights, but you've given us a great insight. And Locky, you're still blowing my mind that you're not playing for Black Friday. I'm just like, I'm nervous for you. Go do some work.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Nah, she'll be right.
Nathan Bush: Anthony and Locky, thank you so much for joining us on ADD to Cart. And thank you again to the whole team at Triple Wow for bringing us this episode as well.
Locke Fitzpatrick: Thanks so much, Nathan.
Anthony Del Pizzo: Yeah, thanks, Nathan. Thanks, Lockie. Great chatting.
Nathan Bush: Well, it was a bit of fun. We had quite a few unexpected little rabbit holes that we went down. That wasn't on my sheet at all of questions and questions that potentially weren't agreed to before the episode. But Anthony and Lockie both dropped little nuggets in that conversation. If you were listening closely, that I think tells us a lot around how a leader, brand and a leading platform are thinking about the world moving forward. There are three lessons that I want to share from you from this episode that I think are the most important. The first lesson is that context is king. We all know that we can pull all of our data into one place now and we can put an agent behind it. We've all heard that the AI will only be as good as the data that you give it, and that's true. That part is close to a commodity. What separates the output is how much context you give it. Locky loads his 12 month plan into Moby, where he intends to spend and what the targets are. So the recommendations come back pointed at exactly where LSKD is actually going, rather than just where the next dollar performs best. And that only gets more important as we start putting automated actions behind the insights that comes out of the data. The second, second lesson is that the expensive stuff often hides in the gaps between your systems. Locky had Moby running a monthly audit across his channels, comparing what each one was claiming under different attribution models. It came back and told him roughly $100,000 of his affiliate revenue looked fraudulent. A partner was bidding on LSKD's own brand name in Google, catching customers who are already on their way and clipping the ticket on sales that they never actually drove. Locky still cannot tell you how it worked that out, but Anthony reckons that that is where the money usually is, right between the platforms. I think he's right. So go and look at your seams where those systems need to talk to each other and the data that you can get out by correlating those two together. Anywhere that two systems both claim the same seam sale is definitely worth half an hour of your time. The third lesson is the one that I found most refreshing. LSKD do not plan the hell out of Black Friday. They put everything into night one, see what it tells them, then decide the rest from there. I'm sure it's not that chill, but that's the impression that Locky gave that sitting. Now, in September, everything isn't planned to a tee. They give themselves room to respond and to have new ideas wherever the season takes them. They also do not wait to see what anyone else is doing. Locky, Tommy. There are brands that hold off announcing their dates until lskd announced theirs. And his line on that was, it's a great way to guarantee second place. It's a real lskd saying, isn't it? They back their own numbers and their own community and they leave themselves room to move and have a bit of fun with it. Most of us do the opposite, especially now. There's so much pressure on Black Friday. We have these huge planning documents for how every day on Black Friday is going to run and no room to maneuver. Whereas Locky's actually saying to be the best at Black Friday, you've actually got to give yourself room to maneuver and adapt. A huge thank you to Anthony and the team at Triple Whale for supporting Add to Cart and bringing us this episode. And thanks to Locky, who was a lot more honest about how loose the inside of a 10 million dollar per hour sale is than he probably ever needed to be. But it was really great insight and probably exactly what we needed at this time of year. If you got something from this episode, please do subscribe. Leave us a review and if you are interested in learning more about Triple Whale, link is in the show Notes until next time, I'll see you on Add to Cart.
