Gemma Crowe: It was always just my brother and my sister and I in the pool with dad and Mum never got in the pool with us. I'm not opposed to kind of sharing numbers if it's going to help other people to feel inspired and start something. Being on maternity leave, being awake all night, I could kind of inject myself into that mum space on Instagram. Welcome to ADD to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart.
[Voiceover]: Oh hi Add to Carters. My guest today launched her brand in 2018 after finding a perfect match with with an Instagram personality and they haven't looked back. Kind of sounds like a scam, doesn't it? Gemma Crow is the founder of Infamous Swim, an Australian swimwear label for women who want to feel empowered in their swimwear no matter what life stage they are at. They have striking prints and options to match the whole family. Like literally kids and adults matching. It's really cute. The company has grown from a $10,000 investment to to $14 million annual turnover today and they are continuing to grow. In this chat, Gemma shares the reason that she wanted to make swimwear for all bodies and she has a fantastic story to frame her. Why? She also shares the disasters her business has come through over the years and how relationships will always be the most important thing for her when making business decisions. What I love about Gemma is that she is a true founder and creative at heart. This was all her idea to build Infamous Swim and she built it from the ground on up. She is in the detail and on the tools even today. At the same time, she realizes the limitations on the business and the need to change in order to keep growing. We discuss all of this, from technology to team to funding. A very real chat for founders who might be reaching that next stage of growth. All right, thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Paclio. Here's our conversation with Gemma Crow, owner and director of Infamous Swim. Gemma, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cart.
Gemma Crowe: Thank you so much for having me. My first little potty. So I'm very excited.
[Voiceover]: How is this your first potty?
Gemma Crowe: To be honest, I've just been too, I think frightened but also trying to find the right one. You know, I think it's about the right one as well for the first time. That's awesome. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Well, I feel very special and we met each other through E Suite and brilliant working with you and the team. So I feel like I've got the Infamous Swim story, but I'm kind of really interested in hearing more about you because you personally have such a great story as well. But let's start with Infamous Swimming. Let's start there. What is Infamous Swim if people haven't come across it and what makes it different?
Gemma Crowe: Infamous Swim, Wow. It's been a journey. So we're four and I think five months old, and it feels like it's gone super, super quick, but it also feels like I've been doing it for ages. It's. It's really strange. So Infamous Swim is a swimwear brand that empowers women to feel comfortable in their body, not just women. We've now ventured on to men and children as well. So it's about really everyone just feeling really comfortable in their swims. Just want everyone to feel comfortable in their body and not have to worry about the size. You are, imperfections, all of that, and just get into your swims and enjoy your time with your family. And, you know, the whole matching kind of aspect, which was our niche that we brought kind of to the market, you know, helps you kind of connect with your family. It's a little bit of fun. It's a little bit of something different for your holidays.
[Voiceover]: And why is that important to you?
Gemma Crowe: You know, that's a really good question. And not until the last year did I dive into the reasons why I actually find it so important. You know, I grew up with a pool. I grew up in the suburbs of Melbourne and I grew up with a pool. And it was always just my brother and my sister and I in the pool with dad and Mum never got in the pool with us. And as a kid, I didn't even really think about it, but she just never wanted to get into swimwear. And, you know, she'd come out into the backyard and kind of be in the backyard, obviously, watching us in the pool. But she never got into swimwear and never got in the pool. I didn't think anything of it, really, to be honest. And then, well, yeah, and then also in photos and things like that, mom just didn't want to get into photos after having three kids. And, you know, she felt she'd put on quite a bit of weight from when she was younger and never wanted to get in photos either. And I think subconsciously that's been something in the back of all of this. And it's about just being comfortable and getting on your gear and getting out there with kids and just enjoying yourself, letting your kids see you enjoy yourself instead of worrying about what you look like. And I think that goes for not just mums, but dads as well.
[Voiceover]: I love that. I think it's so relatable for so many people, both in their experiences in the past, but also if they are a parent or. Yeah, just someone who wants to get out and go swimming, Enjoy those fun moments. I love that you framed it in that holiday setting because I could imagine that this is where that kind of missing out aspect comes to life the most.
Gemma Crowe: Yeah, 100%. We find that we're definitely. When people have said to me about us being a seasonal brand, I've always gone, actually, I feel like we're kind of like a travel brand. We're not just a swimwear brand, we're a travel brand because a lot of people contact us saying, hey, I'm going on this cruise or I'm going to the Gold coast or I'm going to Bali or I'm going, you know, I'm going on this holiday with my family. And it's about meeting that deadline, getting the swimwear to match with the family for their holiday.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So what are all the ways that you've either designed the product, promote the brand that you've really latched onto to make sure that it is seen as inclusive and for everyone.
Gemma Crowe: The reason I actually started the business as well was my love for Instagram. So I was actually building a homewares brand for another, like, big, fast moving kind of company. And I was always on Pinterest and on Insta and I really loved seeing, you know, we're doing beach products, but it was really like following families, seeing families out there and enjoying their holidays and everything.
[Voiceover]: What year are we talking here?
Gemma Crowe: So I was building the homewares brand from 2014 to 1617, I think. Yeah. And I just got truly inspired by looking at Insta, seeing really nice images and really nice images on Pinterest. I loved the family match. Like on Pinterest, it's a. It's a wormhole. You can really just get stuck into, like this hole of imagery. But I was obviously looking through cool beach items. And whenever you're looking through beach items, I'd see, you know, kind of cool swimwear as well, but a lot of matching fashion on Pinterest. And it was always a very petite mom and a really, you know, cute little girl kind of wearing something fashionable. And really nice. And I think that kind of drummed up the idea of doing matching swim. I hadn't seen much matching swim really at all. There was a big kind of gap there and I decided to go for it. I kind of drew like a whole bunch of swimwear and drew matching Mum and Minnie, which is really weird because I've got boys, but I, I just saw the real cutesy mom and daughter thing as something. And to get back to your question, so it's more about the body positivity side of things. It's really kind of getting all parents and families. We're in the swim, so on our socials, we're not about everything looking picture perfect. Sure, there are some families that are picture perfect, or what people would assume is picture perfect, but we just want everyone. We just get every kind of picture. We get people that tag us in their photos, we'd love to use their photos if they let us. Just making sure that everyone sees a diverse kind of range of bodies, I guess.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So the visual element of the brand and the product is so important for you with those platforms.
Gemma Crowe: Yes, super, super important. I'm very, very visual. And although we didn't get into the Instagram game way back, you know, 2013-16, when the direct ROI came from Insta posts, you know, we've created a really cool community of people that love seeing other people in their swims and we do get great kind of return based on that.
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Gemma Crowe: serious There's a couple of points. So I was working for this other company doing homewares and my girlfriend actually owned. Well, she had the name Infamous Swim, so she wasn't really doing anything with it. It was like itty bitty Brazilian swimwear. Like, a lot of similar brands were out at the time, probably five or six that I could reel off very easily. All with similar swimwear, same colors, same fabrics, all made out of the same factory in Bali. And, you know, they'd each kind of done well or as well as they could, I guess, with that kind of competition. But it wasn't really me. I'm not someone that wears really skippy bikinis. Well, I did when I was a lot younger, but not these days. And I remember reaching out to one of my fave mum Insta personalities, and she was pregnant at the time and she was a model, so she was modeling for just some other kind of fashion brands. And I was like, hey, I'd love to get some images. View Pregnant in the swimwear. And it wasn't the really skimpy styles. It was a little bit more coverage, but still skimpy compared to these days, my brand these days. And she popped them on and I put them onto Facebook. So I dabbled in some Facebook ads and I saw some pretty cool wins. Like, I didn't really know what I was doing. I was kind of like buying all these Facebook courses and learning, like, how to kind of double in it. And I got it, like a few purchases in a couple of days and I thought, oh, that's weird, because literally there was one purchase maybe every two months of the, you know, the original kind of infamous.
[Voiceover]: That's slow going. Yep.
Gemma Crowe: Yeah. And I thought, oh, wow, there's something in that. And then that whole idea of how much I love the matching and Pinterest and Insta, and that's like, it all kind of came together at that time. I was pregnant at the time, so I took maternity leave from the homewares, building the homewares business for someone else, which was super, super hard, especially when you've got very different risk profiles. So I'm someone that likes to take a risk and they weren't. And I was like, burnt. So went on maternity leave and then did like six months of getting all mood boards sorted for the matching, reaching out to, like, 150 emails, I reckon I sent to, like, mum bloggers or, like Instagram people playing in that Instagram space with their kids.
[Voiceover]: Is it true that you had about 10k in your pocket to play with at the startup. That startup phase.
Gemma Crowe: Yeah. So my husband was like, this idea looks great. Here's just a bit that we can put aside. Like, he has his own business. So we weren't. Yeah, we weren't really well off to just start it. It was like, okay, here's 10k that I can probably give to you, but I'm going to need that back. I remember getting, like, probably about five or six emails back and all of them were like, oh, this is a really great idea. But you know, let me know when you're up and running. Because I basically scanned in drawings and then I had one really big Instagram personality write back to me and go, absolutely love it. Like, love it. Can we chat? Can I put my name on one? And I was like, what the hell? It just blew my mind. I was like. I said to my husband, I don't know if this is real or not, but this is what this person said. And basically I. In that time. So over the six months I'd had my baby and he was about four weeks old, I got on a plane, took some samples up to meet this personality, and she chose a print. Her and her husband kind of looked through the four prints that I designed and were like, oh, the leopard looks like it'd be really good, but the pink's really on brand for you. And then went with, like, the pink style. And I think I launched maybe a month and a half later and it pretty much went bananas. Like, it just. It went bananas straight away. It was crazy. I was sitting there watching. I remember the minute, like, we launched, the website went live. I was watching the sales come in, just going, is this for real? Like, I knew, I kind of knew, but still didn't really believe that it was going to happen, I guess, you know.
[Voiceover]: And was the feeling at that point, was it excitement or was it overwhelm or was it something else?
Gemma Crowe: Through the whole process of the design of those six months, I had this feeling of, like, butterflies. And I knew that it was kind of going to work and it was going to be amazing. But, yeah, I guess when the sales actually start coming in, it's just a crazy feeling. It's like, really, all that hard work that you've done, all those sleepless nights, staying up, talking to influencers in the US and Canada has really paid off. Like, this is amazing.
[Voiceover]: If you were launching again, do you think an influencer strategy would work as well today as what it did back then?
Gemma Crowe: So this is my take on it over the four and a bit years and it depends on how much time you have to do this as well. In the start, like, I'm a real relationship person. I like to kind of connect with people and kind of get on the same level and figure out whether they're aligned with me before actually working with them. And I was able to do that at the start. So being on maternity leave, being awake all night, I could kind of inject myself into that mum space on Instagram and kind of became really good friends with, with people. And it's amazing. Like you've never met these people, but you're actually speaking to them all the time in DMs or on, on their posts, just building each other up and had that time to do that. So when I first launched with the 10K, roughly 10K, most of it went to products. A little bit went to a web, like a web. Very little bit went to website, about 10%, I think I just got someone to kind of whip up something very basic and then, you know, tried to get people to do stuff like as a favor, really. So Marcia, who I worked with, who was the Instagram personality, she worked on a commission base. I didn't have to pay or anything up front or anything like that. And she was like, no rush or anything. She just really loved to help small business and she loved the idea. She really connected with it, which was awesome. I had a friend helping me do graphic design. I had another mum from Melbourne who took some photos for me and those photos went viral. Like, it was really about building connections and building relationships with these people. And it just went crazy at the start. And I think all of those different relationships that I built helped the following grow and it really helped people to learn about the brand nowadays because we have 600 plus thousand followers. And, you know, there's articles out there that say, you know, this is where our revenue is. And people think, whoa, it's such a, you know, massive business. It's become really hard. It's been really hard to kind of reach out and build relationships with new people in the Instagram world or YouTube world or tick Tock, because it's become very monetized and it's, you know, about how many followers you have and the engagement and people just really trying to bank on getting paid for things. Like it's less about the relationship and the communication and connection now, I think. So, yeah, we've had some, we've had some tough times. We've had some people just go, yeah, I'm worth this amount. And we've kind of gone, okay, we don't really have that, but let's just take a massive risk. I'm a big risk taker, probably a little bit too big, my husband would say. But you know, and then, and we've got nothing like zilch. And then you kind of reach out to them and go, hey, like can you tell us a little bit about why? And then they kind of put it back on you and you think, wow, that's really shit. But then, you know, you'll deal with some other micro kind of people in the Instagram world now and you're still able to build those relationships and you know, you might pay them a thousand or a little bit more and they get great ROI for you. So it really is just about doing your due diligence, seeing if you kind of work well with them, gel with them and if, if you're aligned. But it's a hard space. I speak to a lot of other business owners. I love kind of connecting with other business owners and when I've got the time, which we all probably don't. But yeah, it's, it's a real thing that we talk about right now. Like how hard is it to actually get return from that platform when there's so much fakeness going on.
[Voiceover]: It's really interesting, isn't it, that you actually have better felt you had better relationships back when you were starting out, when you didn't have the brand, didn't have all the leverage that you've got today.
Gemma Crowe: People just wanting to help.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gemma Crowe: As soon as you people, I think in Australia, they love the underdog. So when you seem smaller they're kind of happy to help. But it's a really interesting one.
[Voiceover]: And then they say you as a honey pot when you're a bit bigger.
Gemma Crowe: Definitely, definitely not just in the influencer game, but in every game from website building to everything.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Now you've publicly put it out there that you're aiming for $18 million in revenue by 2024. I'm not sure if that was intentional or not, but just came up a few times in the research.
Gemma Crowe: Yes, yes, it did. Look, I think, look, I like to share in general. I like to inspire others and I think it's important for people to think that they can do something even if they think that they kind of can't. Like I always, I never studied marketing or business or had anything behind me. So I've had some really like turbulent times when I was younger, trying to get into like an office. Lots of full on stories there, which I can go into. But I guess for articles they contact you and they kind of want a hook, right? So something that's going to seem quite interesting. So I'm not opposed to kind of sharing numbers if it's going to help other people to feel inspired and start something. But the funny thing to me is when you know, people read, you know, 18 million revenue, they're like, oh wow, that must be so well off. And everything's, you know, so amazing making that amount of money. But that's not profit.
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Gemma Crowe: We're actually potentially on track to do that by June this year, so. So yeah, so I know that we're going to hit that. I know that we're probably going to bypass that actually by next year. But it's more so doing it profitably. So what I've found, you know, I've never run a business with my own money before and within four years doing that amount of money, you know, based off ourselves and no investors or anything like that, it hurts. So you've grown really fast. There's a lot of things that break. You know, we had a huge bottleneck at Christmas time and Black Friday which saw quite a bit of brand damage I thought. But then, you know, I've spoken with other business owners that have been through something similar and you know, they've had, you know, tens of thousands of orders that didn't go out for like two months and they're like, look, and now we're here today so just you know, breathe, just be okay, like just crying through it all, just going, I just want my customers to get it. You know.
[Voiceover]: Obviously you are a risk taker and you have been totally self funded throughout this journey so far. Some big targets that you're hitting and are on track to hit ahead of time. Does that open it up to then investment for further growth?
Gemma Crowe: Definitely we are looking into that space at the moment. It's a big wide world. I just think we've had an offer of these two young guys from New York, offered to buy the business in 21 and we just felt it was a little bit unders at the time. Was probably a good time to sell a business though as I'm hearing because now like we're coming into a little bit of a tougher time. But in saying that we've had a couple of interests from investors and it's really about finding the right one. I think we're very new to this, as my son would call us. We're noobs and we just want to make sure it's the right person. Right. I feel like a lot of investors are potentially after a cheap deal and like a bargain. But we know that this business has epic legs. We know what's coming for it. Like I can feel it in my gut. We were told, you know, at four and a half mil that we wouldn't be able to scale it ourselves the next year we did like just under 8 again we were told, you know, you won't be able to get it further than, you know, a certain amount. And now we're already up to 14 for this year. So we know that we can do it. But is it me? I think probably not. I feel like I've got it as far as I can. I would love to focus on the creative side and the product side which is like my jam. But trying to wear too many hats has got really hard. So finding the right investor. I actually had a chat with Jay Wright recently and, and he was telling me about, you know, the, the strategic buyer and the financial buyer. And I was like, that makes a lot of sense. You know, the financial buyer just kind of goes, what's your ebitda? Let's do a multiple of, you know, whatever it is in, in the time in the current economic market. But the strategic buyer goes, you've grown it within four years to 18 mil. Your profit might be not as great as it was two years ago, but this is what I'm Going to buy it, and I'm going to do this, this, and this. Cause I've done that before for. And they know how to kind of roll that out. And that's the type of person that we're looking for.
[Voiceover]: It's a great distinction. I like that.
Gemma Crowe: Yeah, it was really good. I was like, he just clarifies so many of my thoughts sometimes. He's my, like, mentor. Jay is, for sure. So, yeah, we're looking for that strategic buyer that sees my vision and goes, yes, we can do this, this, and this, and let's do it together and smash it.
[Voiceover]: What are the biggest challenges for you in maintaining and growing that profitability?
Gemma Crowe: So each year I feel like there's been something that has kind of smashed me off my pedestal. So whether it was in 2021, like, my whole customer service team that were situated in Cebu were actually wiped out by a typhoon. And that was. Right. Yeah, it was. It was full on. They were all okay, which was great, but we did not have connection with them for, like, three or four days, which was super scary. So a. We didn't know if they were okay. We had people on the ground, you know, trying to make sure. But that was quite a big dent to the business as well, because, I mean, those. That team is epic. And they're on the emails all the time, just getting back to our customers. And that was over, I think, like, New Year's Day kind of time. And we had a lot of orders, so we had like a day team packing and a night team packing, trying to get all of that sorted from Black Friday. And, yeah, we had to put on an Australian customer service team and a lot of people. And we had to teach people over that really busy time when it's quite scarce anyway for staff. And that was like. That was a really tough time, just in terms of cost, because it actually created those two months to be not as profitable. And they're our most profitable months. And then we had a massive flood go through our warehouse and destroy $2 million worth of stock as well. So that was all within probably a couple of months. So that kind of just knocked us for a six.
[Voiceover]: Did you think about throwing it in at that point, or was it never a question that.
Gemma Crowe: No, it was never a question to throw it in at all. It was. We've just got to do what can I swear on here, whatever the fuck we can to kind of get that money back. So we had to downsize. We made probably some really poor decisions as well at that time, so got rid of Our second warehouse moved into a smaller one. Wasn't enough space. And then the following year, because we'd kind of downsized everything just to try and keep cash flow, you know, cut out like our CFO cut out like our email marketer and all different things for a few months just to try and get as much cash flow as we could to then designing 32 new colorways that we were going to launch that September. Because we thought, yeah, we're just going to smash out all these new colors and do a really good test and see what happens. And I'll never forget. So my sister works in logistics, and, you know, we're not scared to talk to each other the way that we've always talked to each other since we were young. And she came up to me and went, if you don't do something about this warehouse phase, I'm going to have to go on mental health leave. Like, I'm actually serious. And I was like, I didn't know if she was joking, but when she said, I'm, I'm dead set serious, like, I'm actually going to take the next three days off, I went, okay. Because I hadn't connected with the warehouse space and the 32 new colors that I was bringing. She's like, where. Where the are you going to put it? So within two weeks, we had to make a snap decision, like, either find a 3 PL that can move us in straight away or find, you know, a thousand square meters somewhere and you're in Melbourne. I don't know if you know about factory space, but it is impossible to find anything that big. So we scrounged around for a while. My husband was out there looking. He was talking to real estate. Then we're also speaking to some 3pls and doing the costs. My outsourced CFO is actually Jason from SBO. So I was like, jace, cost this up. Let's try and work out which way. What can we do? And we ended up finding a small boutique 3PL, and we moved in there very quickly. We literally dropped it on them and they just went, holy shit, this is massive. We were their biggest by far. So that brings me into my next kind of fail this year or last year was making that decision too quickly and they couldn't function with how many orders we grew way too fast over Black Friday. And we had, yeah, the massive, massive issues again. We had to get on extra packing staff. We had to get on extra customer service. And then, yeah, we just had all these bad reviews and all of this stuff going on. So, yeah, we kind of got knocked with our profit again. So I feel like in all those years, though, I'm having these moments where I'm like, okay, I will not do that again. And next time trust your gut and kind of try and find that bigger space that might have cost a little bit more. And I thought that we wouldn't be able to afford it because what has happened with the 3 PL is like half a mil of money probably gone from our profitability this year. So that hurts quite a bit. So, yeah, it's about refining the process. I think it's about getting a bit more structure in the company as well. Like, as I said earlier, like, I've done the best that I possibly could. I think in terms of operations, I'm a real creative person. I mean, you could ask my staff. I'm just like all over the shop. So, you know, my desk has like a million coffee cups. There's a lot going on. I'm not that really operational and organized person. So we really need to kind of get that structure going. And I think that also comes into play when talking about investors and stuff like that as well. They want to see a little bit more structure or they'd bring that structure in, I think.
[Voiceover]: Well, it sounds like there's a common theme coming through right from the start where you were talking about relationships with your influencers, about taking the time to get to know them and them to get to know you before you strike any deals and make sure the deal is right for both. Is it the same approach with investors and then team members? How do you get to know the right team members to bring into infamous Swim?
Gemma Crowe: I think relationships works with all. We have such an epic team. So originally I was just calling on friends, friends of friends that knew someone in certain spaces. We've gone from packing in the kitchen to packing in the garage to moving to 160 squares to now we've got our new warehouses being built, which is 1500 squares that we're moving in the next month and a half, which is so exciting. Yes. But in that time, you know, I've lent on people. I've had really awesome people around that have just wanted to kind of come on. And I always have this saying, but I never really started a business to have staff. I just wanted people to come on and do epic shit with me. And that's the way I've kind of gone. Even now we're hiring through E Suite. And like, I say it on the interview, I'm like, I'm probably Not, I don't know, I guess we have to ask my staff. But I don't feel like I know what I'm doing as a boss. Like, I really just want to be a part of the team and just work with everyone and just like empower everyone to work their best and love coming to work. Because, you know, there's been workplaces in my past where like, I've really, really loved it. I felt like I was a part of the business, you know, and that's what I want them to feel like. I want them to feel like they can move and they can grow and yeah, we've just got a really good culture. So I'm very protective of that. And Em knows whenever I speak to her at E Suite, it's really about finding that right person that fits in.
[Voiceover]: And because you are so self aware with your leadership style and the way Infamous operates. Is it really clear to you when you first meet someone, like within the first five minutes of. Yep, they're going to be comfortable with the environment that we've created versus someone who's like, oh, I can't lead this person?
Gemma Crowe: I think so. I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character. Like even through zooms, because we've been doing our interviews through zooms. I guess I just ask questions. I really just be myself when interviewing them.
[Voiceover]: Any question that you ask regularly that always gives you like a little cut through moment?
Gemma Crowe: Oh, I don't know. Not really. I guess I always want to know what the person's like though. Not just about like their skills. So it's about what do you get up to. But you know, even if someone said, oh, something completely different to me, so I like read books all weekend or I, you know, whatever it is, I just, I guess it's more looking at how they speak, how comfortable they are, looking into their eyes. Like it's. I'm a little bit kooky in that way. Just kind of getting a feel. Feel for people, I think.
[Voiceover]: Brilliant. How good. It's been so good to talk like this. I mean, we've talked a lot about team, but not a lot about the business and the challenges that you face in growing to this point. What keeps you up apart from four kids? What keeps you awake at night these days? Like, what are the things that are on top of your head?
Gemma Crowe: I sleep pretty soundly because I am buggered. But the kids do wake me up. But what do I stress about? Cash flow. Cash flow is my number one. Whenever I am, like, I've done A couple of talks. And for small business, like people coming up in small business, I'm like, just be on your numbers. Like be on your numbers. Because if you're not, you know, it just gets away from you. And even if you don't understand the numbers. Yeah. Finding someone that is within your budget that can help you understand the numbers. I'm pretty lucky. My husband's a real numbers guy and I do love numbers. I love reporting. I love just, you know, kind of seeing what it spits out.
[Voiceover]: Come on, you said you were.
Gemma Crowe: I know, but I'm definitely. I'm kind of both. It's a bit. It's a bit funny, but I'm just not organized. That's definitely what I'm not. I just. It's fun to work towards something, I guess. And when you see your p. L even if it's in negative, you've got something to work towards.
[Voiceover]: If we've got other business owners listening to this who are in the same, who also stay up at night stressing about cash flow and I've spoken to a few lately. What would be the piece of advice that you would give them that's helped you through some of those moments?
Gemma Crowe: I do a lot of work around getting funding, reaching out and getting funding. I was always someone that was frightened to have a loan just based on how I was brought up. You know, I have parents that came from nothing and worked really hard to get to where they were. They worked super hard. So there's like working really hard and then there's working smart. They're very hard workers. And that's where I guess I've learned my work ethic. But they also were scared of banks and, you know, loans and all of that. So in my first year of business, having such a good kind of Christmas coming into that February March was the first time I had to actually go, shit, I've got to go and get a loan. And it was a really bad loan that I got the first one. It was like a prosper loan or something. I don't even know if I can say that. You'll have to cut that out if you're not allowed to say that. But it was really bad, like the fix of whatever the rate was. But, you know, they gave me the cash and I got through that really hard time. I think you've just got to do what you've got to do, whether you can get the funds from family or friends or, you know, then you don't have an interest that you have to pay back or just yeah, Reach out to other businesses and ask them, you know, who they've been using to get some funds and stuff. But yeah, it definitely does keep you awake. But try not to let it. Just keep pushing.
[Voiceover]: That's it. Let the creativity keep going as well. I suppose while you're doing the numbers side.
Gemma Crowe: Yes. Don't let it crunch your creative space, that's for sure.
[Voiceover]: So, Gemma, I think you've given us a lot of hints along the way, but what are you really excited about? What's next for yourself and the infamous swim team?
Gemma Crowe: We're on a couple of things. We're on a massive mission for the USA this year, which has already just been amazing through January. I mean, we've never started targeting USA so early. It's freezing over there still and we're kicking butt. So we're really excited for the USA this year, but we're also building out a product team. So there's anyone out there listening that loves fashion and is, you know, a garment tech or a product person, then reach out. But yeah, we're, we're looking at playing in the resort wear space, kind of resort fashion as well, and some kids accessories like floaties and, and slips like slip ons and stuff like that. So. So just a few fun little added extras once we can get a bit of help in the product space. Because at the moment I'm trying to do it all.
[Voiceover]: That's awesome. Any plans for a little bit of resort research along the way?
Gemma Crowe: You know, there's a lot of resort research. That's one thing my husband and I do do, is travel a lot with the kids. We may not be able to spend, you know, a lot of time in the day in and day out with them, but we take nice big holidays. We take a couple a year.
[Voiceover]: So.
Gemma Crowe: Yes.
[Voiceover]: Where would you recommend that people have a look for that if they want that resort style holiday?
Gemma Crowe: Oh, gosh. Europe.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Gemma Crowe: I haven't got my husband to Europe yet and a girlfriend's getting married there this May, so I'm very excited to head there yet. So that's where we're finally getting out of Italy. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Now, Gemma, you said you love speaking to other business owners also, you know, you've got those developments within the team. What's the best way for people to get in touch?
Gemma Crowe: Yeah, generally through the socials, I would say. You know, we've got quite a big team that work on the socials and on email and everything now. So that's the best place, I reckon, to reach out through socials.
[Voiceover]: Brilliant. Gemma, thank you so much for sharing your story.
Gemma Crowe: No worries. Thank you so much for having me today. I hope I've been entertaining for someone.
[Voiceover]: You have so much and just honest. It's a real story, it's a real journey, but it feels like it's still the start. So it's a really nice point to have a chat.
Gemma Crowe: Totally agree, it is. Thanks so much, Nate.
[Voiceover]: I really enjoyed that chat with Gemma. I've spoken to her a few times before, but I think that this is the perfect time to catch Gemma's and Infamous Swim's story today. I feel with what she is talking about, with growing the team, finding investment, exceeding targets, Infamous Swim is going to look very different in the coming years. Here are the three main points that I got out of our chat. Number one, find your coffee story. Don't pitch to me in an elevator. I couldn't think of anything worse. But if you have a story that you can tell over coffee or wine or beer, which perfectly frames why you started your business or why you do what you do every day, that will be so much more powerful than describing what you do. Gemma's story about her mum not joining her and the family in the pool during some of the family's happiest moments was really powerful and it hit home for many. It is the perfect way to introduce Infamous Swims mission. Do you have a mum? Not in the pool? Story number two, relationship based decision making. I mentioned it during the conversation, but every major decision that we talked about for Gemma along the way, whether this was recruiting new team members, partnering with influencers, signing off on investors, started with the relationship and whether it feels right for Gemma. And Gemma had to put a lot of time into getting to know people people before making the decision rather than focusing on the terms and the details of the decision, signing it off and then getting to know the person, I think it's a really good lesson in identifying which are the decisions that we really need to take time and invest in relationships before you even consider the details to sign off on. Number three, cash flow is always the the priority. Gemma talked a lot about cash flow and was really honest about some of the challenges in maintaining a positive cash flow and managing debt in order to grow to 14 million as quick as they have. As a naturally creative person, Gemma could have buried her head in the sand and relied on others to do the numbers, but she didn't. She made it her business as the CEO and founder of to stay on top of it. So no matter what your natural state is, whether you're analytical, creative, operational. Never take your eye off cash flow if you're an e commerce business owner. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to addtocart.com and sign up for our free newsletter. Each Tuesday, we will send Monday's episode summary, links and tickets discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to cartoon.
