Danny Holloway: I'd been savings by a house so I had a pretty decent amount of money in the bank and yeah, instead I decided to start a business with it. There needs to be more female founders out there and solving things that they're passionate about. Sometimes you have ideas and you tell people and they can't visualize it. So because they can't visualize it, they say that it's crazy or that that can't happen. But I think if you can visualize it and you can feel it, then that's what you need to hold on to.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of E commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and E Commerce Strategist at 12 high. Question for you. Do you like pina coladas and dancing in the rain? Of course you do. And if you like that, then you're gonna love our guest today. Our guest is Danny Holloway, founder and CEO of Merry People. In our conversation, Danny shares with us all what made her leave her career in banking and start selling gumboots and what her friends thought about her being a little loco in doing so. And I'm sure we've all heard that
Nathan Bush: advice when we've tried to do something a little differently.
Nathan Bush: You're also going to hear from Daniel
Nathan Bush: on how she's managing with virtual trade
Nathan Bush: shows rather than in person trade shows during COVID how she uses Reflection Fridays to keep a team connected, and why married people will never, ever, ever discount. Plus, stick around right until the end to hear how you can win a pair of Merry People's bobby gum boots. These things sell out super quick, so
Nathan Bush: it's a prize worth sticking around for.
Nathan Bush: Now let's get into it. Thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Signet. Here's our conversation with Danny Holloway from Merry People. Danny Holloway from the Merry People. Welcome to Add to Cart.
Danny Holloway: Thank you, Nathan. Thanks for having me.
Nathan Bush: Pleasure.
Nathan Bush: Now, you're in lockdown in Melbourne at the moment.
Danny Holloway: Yes. Yes. So I can't even. I don't even know how many weeks it's been, but I think we've been working from home since end of March. I think it's been. Or middle. Yeah, towards the end of March. So, yeah, I guess I've just Stopped counting and. Yeah, just taking day by day and week by week.
Nathan Bush: All right, well, we'll get into Covid and the impact that it's had for you and how you've responded, but can you give our listeners a little bit of an overview of who the merry people are and how it came about?
Danny Holloway: Yeah. So Merry People is a. An amazing gumboot brand that I started was around like, six years ago. And I guess it started I was looking for a cool pair of gumboots. So, yeah, I grew up in country Victoria, grew up wearing them, and I moved to Melbourne for university and work. And I guess the first time the gumboot idea came to me was when in my early 20s, I used to go to music festivals and liked camping and getting outside. And I remember I was once going to this festival called Meredith Music Festival, which is in Country Victoria.
Nathan Bush: I remember the days we could go to music festivals. They were fantastic.
Danny Holloway: I know it seems like a distant memory, but, yeah, so. And yeah, all my friends were buying gumboots and they were going to Bunnings and buying, yeah, those type of gumboots. And then some were buying, like, Burberry and Hunter gumboots, which really expensive. I remember thinking then, like, oh, I hope someone one day creates a really cool gumboot, like just a really fashionable cool one, because we had quality gumboots on the farm. But, yeah, there was nothing like that that I saw. And at the time I was 20 and just barely able to pay my rent, so. So it was just. That was really going week by week, so I wasn't looking to start a business. And then it was again later, in my late 20s, I was working in a corporate job and it was on my morning commutes to my office that I was in Melbourne. It's notoriously always wet. They say it can be four seasons in one day. And yeah, I was looking for a cool, waterproof, comfortable pair of boots again. And when I couldn't find any that I loved, I thought that this was a gap in the market. And I thought, well, you know, from the country. And I was feeling like I needed a little bit more purpose in my career and in my life. And I'd been saving to buy a house, so I had a pretty decent amount of money in the bank. And instead I decided to start a business with it, which a few times in the first couple of years, it was not like, not touching Gary, but, like, it was, um, definitely. I remember looking at some of my friends who were buying houses and really progressing with their lives and. And my Life. I was doing Saturday markets and still struggling to pay my rent like I was when I was in uni life. So yeah, it was.
Nathan Bush: But at least you had dry feet, right?
Danny Holloway: I did. Always had warm and dry feet. Always had gum feet. So.
Nathan Bush: And just for context, what was, what
Nathan Bush: was the corporate job before this?
Danny Holloway: So I was working in banking. So I was working at the Anz bank, which was an awesome place to work, and I was working in change management. So like a project manager. And that was awesome because it taught me how to navigate change and how to actually execute things and work in areas that I was completely unfamiliar with, like technically inexperienced and having to rely on, I guess, subject matter experts and people around me. So I think the experiences of Anz definitely helped me in starting married people and being able to kind of navigate all the unfamiliar stuff that is of starting a business.
Nathan Bush: So you start from the business foundations and go from there.
Danny Holloway: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: What was the first step?
Nathan Bush: So if you've got this money, you've got this money from your house that
Nathan Bush: you've saved up and you've got the idea for the gumboots, you haven't been in E commerce or retail before, where do you start?
Danny Holloway: So I opened up a blank word document and wrote business plan at the top. And then I just started putting all my ideas down and writing where I thought it, how I thought it could work. And I think I got a template from the Victorian government on how to write a business plan and just did the things like a SWOT analysis, competitor, competitor analysis, all of that stuff. And then I, yeah, I'm someone that just likes to kind of just jump in and I probably still do that today within my team now. I just like to try things. I don't overthink things too much. So yeah, I just wanted to find, I wanted to see if I could get this product in my mind, bring it to life and whether I could actually do that. So I started looking for some manufacturers and I started looking locally and couldn't find anything and found it hard to find people who wanted to work with me. So started looking offshore and did a pretty crazy. I just booked a flight to China by myself and just. I'd been talking to a bunch of different factories and I just wanted to meet them and show them my designs and my ideas and see if they were open to working with me and the volumes that I wanted. And yeah, kind of went from there.
Nathan Bush: Do you think that shortcut a lot of the process by being over in China and being on the ground there rather than Trying to get samples in from different manufacturers.
Danny Holloway: Yeah, absolutely. Like even now where I'm working on two designs for next year, but it's very hard for me doing it remotely without like a lot of factories have like a sample room where they do all the testing and they like the new product creation happens. So it's great to be able to work in that space and for them to tell you no, that's not possible or this would be better and that kind of thing. So it's really, it does take out a lot of the time but also you get to build that rapport like I guess it's a two way conversation like they're taking on you as well. It's not that you can just walk in there and say hey, make my gumboots. I really had to try and get them on board with my vision and what I wanted, that it wasn't just something that I was going to shift a container and that's it and that's the end of the transaction. I wanted to create like a long term business. So showing them what you know, I had my plans for the company in you know, five and ten years time and trying to build that rapport of going out for dinner and having drinks and all that stuff. Yeah, it really, I think has helped. So yeah, I recommend it. Obviously we can't travel now but I think if you are looking for suppliers I think it's awesome to go there and see their capabilities, see the conditions of the factory and understand all of that before pressing play
Nathan Bush: Aussie e commerce
Nathan Bush: packaging company Signet is passionate about helping
Nathan Bush: Aussie retailers transform their packaging processes. With over 5,500 products available online and distribution centers across Australia, Signet has packaging well and truly covered. Signet proudly supports me and this podcast as well as over 60,000 Aussie businesses including small family owned companies like Murchison, River Swags to Australia's largest retailers including Mecca, IKEA, Lush Cosmetics and T2. Visit signet.net au to find out more. Give us an idea of where merry
Nathan Bush: people are now because I know it's been a long, well, six year journey. Tell us where Mary People is now.
Danny Holloway: Yeah, so I, I only started working on the business full time I think it was like four years ago so I was doing it on the side with Anz for a little bit but yeah, we've really grown so we're now distributing out of a warehouse in Melbourne and also la. And yeah we expanded to the US end of last year. I have, there's five full time staff working on Married people. Now we'll be a team of seven by the end of the year. And yeah, we have offices in Collingwood and yeah, we, we ship tens of thousands of gumboots every year to mostly customers, but yeah, retail stores, but yeah, like all around the world. So, yeah, it's really grown from my market operation. It was a few years ago.
Nathan Bush: Well, and personally, you've, you've done a fantastic job. Like last year you were top 50 people in Australian E commerce. So coming from a banking background to top 50 people in Australian commerce, number 12 is a huge achievement.
Danny Holloway: Yeah, that was amazing to be acknowledged, I guess, at an industry level. And yeah, I was not expecting definitely not to come in at number 12 and got given an award on the night. And yeah, that was very exciting for the team, I think, and myself. But to kind of just in the last 12 to 24 months to see how much we've grown and to have that industry recognition was, yeah, was really lovely.
Nathan Bush: What's been the most surprising thing about the e commerce world for you in that time?
Danny Holloway: I'm not sure if it's. I feel like it's changing a lot. It's changing fast. I think there's always things we talk about. We don't think that you're ever an expert at e commerce because we just think there's always something. There's a new platform coming out or, you know, Facebook changes the way it works. And yeah, so I think it's. For me, I didn't realize starting it and starting an online business that it would be this fast, I guess in how things change and how agile you have to be with it all.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Danny Holloway: And what might work for you one month won't work the next, I guess.
Nathan Bush: I think we're all feeling it right now.
Danny Holloway: Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: So let's talk gumboots.
Nathan Bush: Hey, who's. Who is the gumboot customer?
Danny Holloway: Sorry, everyone. I think from a child, from, you know, as soon as you can walk to, to an elderly person, I think. Yeah. And that is absolutely. That's who we get buying our gumboots. We, we get children right up through like that festival girl who maybe she works in at a coffee shop and needs some waterproof, comfy shoes to wear for work. Or we get women wearing them to work, like corporate, like commutes. We get gardeners, we get mums who, you know, for school pickups that just want something easy to put on and get out the door that they don't need to kind of sit down and tie up their shoelaces and mums For Saturday sport, watching their kids or. Yeah, so it's. We have a really wide range of customers and yeah. And we're also. We do sell to men as well. It's something we only go. I think our sizing only goes up to an 11 or 12 in men's, so a little bit limited. But that is the plan eventually is to, to do that as well, to grow our size, size range and be able to service everyone.
Nathan Bush: So like if you look at the website, they are stylish gumboots and I'm not a stylish person, but they, they look stylish gumboots and, and they're not Larry or anything, are they like. They're beautiful colors.
Danny Holloway: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Well designed. So is that, is that intentional so that they can fit into a whole bunch of different lifestyles and use cases?
Danny Holloway: Absolutely. So it's so people can like wear them effortlessly and it's not something that like, it will go with most of their, their wardrobe. And I think in a world today where I think women think about price per wear when they invest in an item and they want to know that, yeah, they can wear something multiple different ways with lots of different outfits. It's not just going to be that pair of boots that sits in the back of their wardrobe until, you know, once or twice a year when they go to their uncle's farm or whatever. It's something they can wear not just as a gumboot, but as an everyday boot. So, yeah, that was absolutely what I wanted.
Nathan Bush: And did it surprise you at all? Because having festivals in mind and having farm life in mind, was it surprising that people just wanted gumboots for everyday wear or you just knew that would happen?
Danny Holloway: Well, that's, that's what I wanted as well because I felt like people, you know, you're only. How you're not going to a festival all the time. Unfortunately, our lives have changed. So yeah, you need to be wearing, able to wear something that you can wear on the weekends. Just down to the coffee shop or walking the dog through wet grass in the mornings. Like that really versatile product that takes you everywhere.
Nathan Bush: Yep.
Nathan Bush: So they're not cheap.
Nathan Bush: Right. They're a good considered purchase at about $140 per gumboot. Not per gumboot, per pair of gumboots.
Danny Holloway: So just be silly.
Nathan Bush: Mind you, I did see that Zappos
Nathan Bush: has started selling shoes that are different sizes and to allow for different people, inclusivity of different people. So I thought it's fascinating. But yes, we sell, we sell two pairs of two shoes per pair. That makes sense.
Nathan Bush: And I noticed that you never put products on sale.
Danny Holloway: Yes, that's correct. So we've never done that. That's just been, I guess, in my personal values. And I don't like it when I see. I buy something and then two weeks later I see it on sale or someone else tells me they got it from somewhere else a lot cheaper. So, yeah, for me, when I did my margins at the start, I wanted, like, it is, it is, it's a. It is a really good quality boot and I think it's a fair price of what you pay for it. And I think if we were to be transparent with our pricing, people would actually see that. And yeah, for me, I was like, I want to. We sell all year round. It's not. I don't want to have. Do something where I've got to create a new product every couple of months. We'll be selling this design for a while. So I thought, let's just keep it like that. People buy it. And I think our consumers really respect that we're. That we do that. And we're really transparent with that as well.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. I mean, your customer reviews are fantastic and they speak to the quality of the gumboot as well. So I think that that price point, plus the customer reviews, it all matches up to quality and value. Is there any time during that kind of Black Friday, Cyber Monday rush around that time of the year where you sit back and go and you're tempted to do something?
Danny Holloway: No, I'm not. I. Yeah, we get a lot. The other, like, we get a lot of people asking us around that time and we actually always get people asking, you know, do you put them on sale or when do you have any active discounts or whatever? And. But no, just because it will affect the brand, I think it'll affect what we're about. So, yeah, unfortunately, I think it's a
Nathan Bush: brilliant approach and I think more, more, more brands need to stand by their product and the value that they're already delivering.
Danny Holloway: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Now I can tell that it's not a problem for you because looking through your website, you've got a lot, not a lot, but you've got some sizes and some popular styles that have sold out. And then you've got pre orders.
Danny Holloway: Yes.
Nathan Bush: How big are pre orders for you?
Danny Holloway: Massive. So, honestly, if we didn't have people pre ordering, I don't think we would have grown the way we've grown. It's really helped. And like, we're still bootstrapped. We've never taken on funding or anything like that from an investor. So yeah, it's really helped us be able to fund our growth and products we buy. So yeah, it's, it's been great. But yeah, it's something that, you know, it's not ideal. We don't want to always be selling in pre order ads. I think every year we think we avoided enough and we've obviously got to, we do cash flow forecasting so to try to make sure that we can afford what we're going to purchase and what we think sales are going to be and therefore what revenue will be. And, and I, I still, I think I push that definitely in summer it's a little, it's quite, I'm a little bit anxious with money because that's when we've got to pay for all our stock and it's all starting to arrive and our sales kind of dip a little bit. But yeah, it has really helped having that like customers and part with their money before receiving the product. Like it's a real, I guess, you know, honor as a brand, trust you that much and that people want your products and they're willing to wait. And that really is something that has, yeah, makes me ridiculously happy as a founder that people, that people trust us, I guess. And it has really helped us. So yeah.
Nathan Bush: How many?
Nathan Bush: Because you're not seasonal, right? No seasonal releases.
Danny Holloway: No, we're not. We do like our sales do dip obviously like in summer. But yeah, we do sell all year round.
Nathan Bush: And how many shipments would you kind of get in per year? Is it regular?
Danny Holloway: Yes, quite regular. Next year we'll be having stock coming every month.
Nathan Bush: Okay.
Danny Holloway: Which yeah, operationally will be a little bit more to manage. But I've got a full time amazing ops guy so he'll have to deal with that.
Nathan Bush: And it's only get more, more complicated with the, the two warehouses. Right?
Danny Holloway: Yes. Yeah. So US hasn't, we've only sent one container there. So initially it was something that, you know, it wasn't like, whoa, I want to take over the world, I want to. Let's go to the U.S. we started getting online sales organically from the U.S. and so we had a bit of a problem because if customers wanted to exchange their boots, it was costing the customer nearly 200 bucks for them to send them back to us in Australia. So I was saying, look, let the customer keep it. We'll just, you know, give them send another pair. But I was like, we can't keep doing this. We need to work this out. So we ended up getting, sending over a pallet of stock to a warehouse we knew over there through a contact and we just wanted to test it out to see if it would work. And so we just started doing our ads over there and it, yeah, started to grow. So then we sent over a container and. But then it all kind of escalated and we're like, right, we need to set up a US business and US bank accounts. And, yeah, now we're all legitimately a US company and had to change the structure of our company. So it went from just like this, you know, couple of pallets to, yeah, this really big process which goes back to my thing around I'm someone that just kind of jumps in. But we worked it out.
Nathan Bush: And was that. That us, that initial US growth, was that just organic? That just happened through word of mouth?
Danny Holloway: Yeah, I think just through socials and we'd get someone that bought some and then their mum or someone else around them, that kind of thing. So, yeah, now we. We have a warehouse in la and yeah, it's growing so it's, yeah, really exciting and hopefully it kind of levels out that seasonality that we have here in terms of sales.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, totally, yeah. And do you think the US will be bigger than Australia pretty soon?
Danny Holloway: I don't think it obviously has the potential to be a lot bigger, but I don't think it will be anytime in the next couple of like, year or two, maybe definitely not the next 12 months. But it is a really hard market to crack. We're doing some digital. I don't know if I mentioned to you before this chat, but we've been doing some digital trade shows. So we're mostly an online business, but we wholesale. We do wholesale. And yeah, we. For me, I find it a good way to kind of get the brand out there and for customers also to see and try on the product. So, yeah, we've been. We're actually doing a digital trade show right now in the us. One of my staff members so is running that. So, yeah, it's where retailers can log in like this and talk to you about the product. And there's like an online portal where you put all your products in the line sheet and they can order through it. So it's been actually really good because it's a lot cheaper than us having to fly over there and do a trade show.
Nathan Bush: That's funny, hey, because some people just love. I think with trade shows I've found some founders just love them and, like, love the energy and the excitement and everything that comes, comes out of it and Some people just dread them. Like, it's just they hate the idea of having to sell their stuff into a trade show. What have you noticed being the main differences between a digital trade show or what are you missing out on on a physical versus digital trade show?
Danny Holloway: I think I am the first person that you mentioned there. Like, I love it. I love seeing people pick up the product and love it and talking to people and seeing people get excited and experience the brand and feel like, yeah, I can sell this like that. I love that. So I guess you don't get to see that. And also you get to meet other people. You get get to meet other brands and I think you can learn a lot. And yeah, so you miss out on that. And I think, you know, obviously if you went. If I went over with a couple of my staff, we would also have a great time. You miss out on that social element, going on a work trip. So. Yeah, but that's okay. That's not, you know, we can do that.
Nathan Bush: And your product is so. So a lot of products are tangible, but it's. It's that kind of thing that I feel you've got to see in person to see the quality and everything around it too. That would help, right?
Danny Holloway: Yeah, definitely. I think because it is more than what most people have would have paid for a gumboot before that. It might be something they want to see, touch and try on and see how it fits.
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Nathan Bush: in terms of selling direct to customer verse wholesale selling into retail. Yeah. Have you seen the shift, like a big shift with COVID in the percentages between the two?
Danny Holloway: So I've always capped our wholesale just because the margins aren't great for us. So I cap it at 20%. So we only sell 20% of our stock to retailers. And when Covid initially first happened, we sell to mostly independent stores, not to any majors. And a lot of them were closing down, but they were still finding ways to sell to their customers. So whether they were doing the click and collect or we have a lot of regional Retailers, so whether they were dropping around to people's houses or whatever. So initially there was a bit of a drop, but then it picked up, I think when consumer confidence somewhat lifted after. Yeah, I think it was early April. So, yeah, we. Yeah, but I think we've been. It's a bit of a hard thing because we've been limited by stock. So we could have sold more to retailers and definitely online as well, but we didn't have enough stock to do so. So I would have loved to have been able to sell more to retailers because I think that would have really helped them even more during this time. Um, but yeah, we just haven't been able to.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Has that. Has getting your hands on stock been the biggest issue during COVID Um, no.
Danny Holloway: For us we have really long lead times, so we have to place our orders like 12 months in advance, roughly, which actually can be pretty standard in fashion. But it's just not something you can just say like, hey, give me another thousand units or whatever it is. So we have had to kind of just work with what we've got. And yeah, I think like some of the biggest issues, like obviously the Australian dollar becoming quite weak. So that put pressure on our margins and our buying price. We all obviously working from home. And I think as a young or, you know, still learning business owner, that's just been something I've had to kind of learn to navig gate in terms of mental health and keeping everyone engaged and. And yeah, like, I think it's going okay, but just kind of adopting some new fun ways to kind of stay connected more during that time.
Nathan Bush: What's worked for you there?
Danny Holloway: Like, we do week, I do weekly one on ones with my team. On Monday mornings we have a group chat where we talk about the previous week's results. Like, I've do this big spreadsheet and yeah, we talk about how we tracks and then we talk about what we're working on for the week. So that's been really. We used to do that in the office also, but we kind of still do that virtually, which has been awesome. And then on Fridays I do this thing. It's a bit dorky. It's called Friday Reflections, which I actually did that in the office as well. But I don't know, I just found that, I guess in a startup or a small business, you're always working at such a fast pace and there's always. You're ticking through things and then. But there's always more you can be doing. And I felt like often we were Kind of going into the week and. Or finishing the week and then we'd start off on our Mondays and then say, oh, you know, I didn't get to do that last week, but I'll do that this week. And. And I felt like we weren't really acknowledging the amazing work that we were doing for that week. So Friday Reflections is just like talking about just acknowledging the awesome stuff we've done that week. So. And if anyone wants to say anything, and generally we have a wine and we might play some virtual games or. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Nathan Bush: So it's not as dorky as it sounds. Right.
Danny Holloway: Yeah, I think. Well, last, actually, I organized cocktails for everyone. So there's a cool place on Lygon street called Atticus Finch and they're doing deliver, like delivery around the whole area. So, yeah, so I got some cocktails for everyone, which was really cool and we had Uber Eats and yeah, that's, yeah, a good night. So, yeah, just trying to find ways to have fun and embrace it somewhat.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. I can imagine as a founder, it must be hard in such a strong growth phase and your team's still expanding and moving. It's like now everyone's locked down, it's like, oh, how do I keep a little bit of control but let everyone do their thing? It's. I can see the, the difficulty in the balance there.
Danny Holloway: Yeah. But I feel like my staff are all pretty great. Yeah, they're all very capable and I haven't hired entry level people. Like it, like where I've had to manage them a lot of the time I'm going to like, they're coming up with ideas and telling me about it, which is exactly what I need and wanted. So I feel like it's, it's been helpful for this kind of working from home situation.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. I'm just watching your website at the moment and just watching the ticker of what everyone's buying. It's.
Danny Holloway: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Just crazy just how much is coming through. It's real, right?
Danny Holloway: Yes, real. Yeah. It's funny, my mum, she often will, like, she really loves marry people and yeah, she'll. We'll have a chat and she's. She'll say, oh, I saw that someone from Germany bought zest and boots from me. I'm like, mum, get off my website.
Nathan Bush: She's just got it on the tv, just permanently up, just watching what's selling. It's fantastic.
Danny Holloway: Yeah. Probably skewing my data, but no, she's just, she's just happy and proud, which is lovely.
Nathan Bush: That's brilliant. Now you're a big supporter of women in business as well. I've seen some of the work that you do and the mentorship that you give for women in business. What areas do you feel that women entrepreneurs need support in? Where can people best focus their attention?
Danny Holloway: So I think for me, and just from what I've seen and even for what I went through at the start, I think a big thing is confidence. And so I like, I guess being that ordinary girl that, you know, you like, started it out of my savings and, you know, I didn't, I don't have a social profile. I'm not. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have super wealthy parents that just kind of. Yeah, it's just, it's been through my passion and me believing in my idea. So I guess I like to talk to women and just to show them, I guess, that you can do it and anyone. I think that often in the startup world you go to a startup event, it's mostly men in hoodies and it can be quite intimidating for a girl. So I do like to just be that voice. And even if they've got a crazy idea to kind of say my idea was gumboots and the amount of people that laughed at me and told me that was ridiculous. So just to kind of be that person, to kind of say, well, I did it and you can do it, you just, this is, this is how you can go about it.
Nathan Bush: Did you really have people telling you it was ridiculous?
Danny Holloway: Absolutely. Yeah, I think it was. My identity was as a corporate person and I guess that's how everyone knew me. And I'd gone from that. And I studied an arts journalism degree, so completely different. And yeah, a lot of my city friends were like, oh my God, Danny, that is so country. Like I'm not so country. But just like, like thought that I was kind of going through a bit of a quarter life crisis and didn't really. No one could see it, what I could see. And it's what I, what it is happening now is what I could see. So I think that's the thing. Sometimes we have ideas and you tell people and they can't visualize it. So because they can't visualize that, they say that it's crazy or that that can't happen. But I think if you can visualize it and you can feel it, then that's what you need to hold on to. And just because you can't convince someone right there in that moment doesn't mean it's A bad idea.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, no, and I think it's just fantastic that you're telling your story as well. And we're in a. We're in a time right now where there's so many fantastic and inspirational female founders that haven't necessarily got a big e commerce background. Right. So we were speaking to Anna from Kester Black a couple of weeks ago and people like yourself, people like Kate from Adore Beauty, like they've all just had this idea and bootstrapped it and given it a go and the fact that you don't kind of hide that story or in your open about sharing it I think will inspire a lot of people to get in and give things to go.
Danny Holloway: Yeah, I hope so because I think that there needs to be more female founders out there and solving things that they're passionate about. I think women are big consumers and I think we understand that. Yeah. Especially in the country. I think there's a lot of products and services out there that can reach more regional areas and that regional people can do that. Yeah. Where I'd love to see some more innovation and female leaders coming through.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, brilliant. Makes sense.
Nathan Bush: Now, Danny, I can see that you
Nathan Bush: have expanded out from your gumboot empire and into the world of umbrellas. How's that going for you?
Danny Holloway: Yes, so we did a collaboration earlier this year with a group called Blunt Umbrellas who are a New Zealand brand. And yeah, it's been going really well. It's been. I think they've got similar design elements to marry people in that it's a quality fun product with just basic design elements. So we felt like it was a really good product fit. And yeah, they're amazing umbrellas that don't blow out when in the wind. So they've actually been tested in pretty full on wind tunnels and stuff. So yeah, we, I think I initially thought about doing umbrellas ourselves but I was like, no, there's too much engineering behind it. And so when we found these guys then, yeah, I thought it was a really good fit. So yeah, I think we'll continue to do stuff with blood as, as we grow.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome.
Danny Holloway: In terms of products. Yeah, we will do the other little add ons. We wanted to do some more this year but it just hasn't happened. So yeah, we will have some more. We'll have two new gumboots coming out, two new designed gun boots coming out next year. So have a taller boot which was supposed to come out this year but it's just been really hard to get the design right remotely so yeah, we'll have that coming out early next year and then another one which is pretty cool. So yeah. Excited about both of them.
Nathan Bush: Plenty more gumboot scope.
Danny Holloway: Hey, absolutely. Yeah. There's so much you can do with it.
Nathan Bush: In your six years of E Commerce.
Nathan Bush: I know we touched on what surprised you earlier. Is there what's been the biggest lesson that you've learned over those years? Something that may be a stuff up or just a lesson that you'd share with everyone that may help others not make the same mistake.
Danny Holloway: So I think that that's kind of exactly it. Like it is about making mistakes. I think it's about learning really quickly and doing lots of testing and ab testing on different things. So I think E Commerce is definitely not a set and forget activity. I think if you want to gear your business to that, towards that, then I think you need to know that that's, that's. It's not, you know, put on some ads and then they just run and then you just collect the sales. Like we're in our ad account, you know, every day and where continually trying to outperform and do stuff like that. So I think it is. And it's trying new things. It's making mistakes. It's, you know, I think when Richmond were in the grand final a couple of years ago, I was like, oh, let's try and target Richmond supporters. Yellow boots. The black and yellow boots. Had it failed, did not work. But you know, we tried it.
Nathan Bush: So that's because Richmond supporters don't wear shoes.
Danny Holloway: Well, I live in Richmond. There's lots of Richmond. My boyfriend actually goes to Richmond. He's there.
Nathan Bush: Oh, sorry.
Danny Holloway: No, no, no, that's right.
Nathan Bush: I'm not, I was, I was at that grand finals going for jws, if that's the one you're talking about, or
Danny Holloway: the previous year, I'm not sure, but one of them. We. Yeah, but you've got to just keep trialing things, coming up with ideas and going, let's try targeting them or let's try a content around this. So I think it's about doing that failing like heavy and then trying something else. So. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And from an ad perspective, do you manage all that in house?
Danny Holloway: We do, yes.
Nathan Bush: So that allows you to be more nimble.
Danny Holloway: Yeah. I've always kind of wanted to keep that IP internally because I feel like, well, what's the point of developing it with an agency or something and then, you know, someone moves on and then you've got to kind of work, work out, work it out with someone new. We do have one person at the moment who is external who's just helping us a little bit with something. But, but we, we kind of do. Yeah, that's only just been very recently, but most up until now it's yeah, been us internally doing it.
Nathan Bush: Fantastic. Well, Danny, we really appreciate your time and thank you for joining us from Lockdown. I'm sure you've got a thousand things on your plate, so thanks for sharing your journey and what you're doing at Mary People.
Danny Holloway: That's okay. I hope it was a value to your listeners. No problem.
Nathan Bush: Thanks Danny.
Danny Holloway: Thank you.
Nathan Bush: So, as you are probably more than aware, we are coming up to the silly discounting season again and it'll be a silly discounting season like one we have never seen before. I think this episode with Danny is a really timely reminder and a great way to hear of a brand that regularly sells out by not discounting. Because not discounting is a strategy in itself. It speaks volumes to the integrity of a brand, the focus on quality and an everyday fairness of price. It's a long term play, but one to consider as we come up to
Nathan Bush: Black Friday and Cyber Monday.
Nathan Bush: If you want more on whether you should discount, listen to this episode obviously. But you can also go back to episode three with Dave Dennings from Surf Stitch on smart discounting and episode five with Jason Andrew on E Commerce accounting. They've got some great tips in there. Now if you want to go into the draw to win those fabulous Bobby gumboot which you can see on merrypeople.com all you need to do is leave us a review on itunes and send the screenshot into hellodtocart.com au the review that tickles us the most, doesn't have to be the longest, doesn't have to be the smartest. Just gives a bit of a laugh. They'll win. It's that easy. Make sure you check out the the full range@marrypeople.com Good luck. If you're looking for more e Commerce news, case studies and research, sign up to 12High's High5 newsletter. Every week I read all the e commerce news and send you five things which I've found which will help grow your business. Visit 12high.comauhigh5H I G H5 to sign up for free. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep adding to cartoon.
