Sharmini Rajarathnam: I feel like this company is. I treat it as my own. And when you treat something as your own, you're fighting for it as if you know it is your baby.
[Voiceover]: Oh, my gosh. It just sounds like something a Kardashian would do. I love it.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: I know. I know, Joe. It can be you too. It can be you too. When I was starting out in digital marketing, I think I asked him once, like, oh my goodness, like, how do I change a Twitter background like back in the day? And he has never let that go. Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading
[Voiceover]: e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Joanne Huey Miller. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land I'm on, the Gadigal people of the EORA nation. I pay my respect to their elders, past and present, and I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening Today, our First nations people were the first traders and entrepreneurs on our land and I am honoured to continue sharing those stories with Australians today. Hi everyone, it's Jo here and I'm thrilled to be back in your ears again. As you know, I'm a guest host on Add to Cart each month and I'm a huge fan of retailers. My regular gig is working at retail strategy agency the General Store and prior to that, I was managing editor at Inside Retail for six years. Today, I'm really looking forward to bring this super fun conversation to you with the delightful Sharmini Rajarathnam. Sharmini joined Australian luxury skincare brand Rationale as a marketing and Digital Coordinator in 2011. Just four years later, she was CEO. Now Rachinal started life in the doctor's surgery prescribed by dermatologists and plastic surgeons to promote optimum skin health. Blending science with Australian botanicals. Rationale is now also available online with flagship stores across Australia, Asia and la. Sharmini and I chat about her career trajectory, what it's like to enter the US market and the exciting new experience Rationale will be launching this year. But then we get into some really juicy stuff about what it's like being married to another retail entrepreneur, how the retail power couple juggle work and family together, and how it's actually not that much different to being Beyonce and Jay Z. So, thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Paclio, here's our conversation with Sharmini Rajarathnam, CEO of Rationale Sham Rationale is a homegrown luxury skincare business that's actually on a really interesting growth trajectory. But I actually think many people know the story behind it. So I'd love to hear from you. The story, tell us what it's about.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: It's always so funny because, you know, you know it so well, but when you have to do a little bit of a pitch, it. It comes off as being so rehearsed. But do my best. So Rational is an Australian luxury cosmeceutical we've been around for over 30 years and it was founded by Richard Parker. And Richard is a cosmetic chemist. But he, you know, he has so many other accolades that I love to sort of call out. He's a musician, he plays the pian piano, he plays the cello, he's a violinist as well. He also worked as a makeup artist back in the day as well. But how it really started, the brand started because Richard really found a gap in the market three decades ago where he was suffering from his own issues with skin. He had acne, he had sun damage, he just had a ferocious amount of skin problems. And he was just trying to find a solution. And one of the ways to find a solution was taking it into his own hands. So he did a lot of reading and he went through all the books on dermatology, skin health, skin anatomy, and then he finally went into doing a course into cosmetic formulation as well. And so that's really the genesis of where this idea started. And I think it still remains so true in terms of Rationale really is built upon the six pillars of skin health. His whole idea, his vision was to. Was for people to achieve luminous skin for life. And that's not being young forever. It's not about not aging by any means. It's. It's really about being beautiful for the rest of your life and feeling that confidence. And you know, we know that when you have a bad hair day, you already feel horrendous, but you can put your hair up in a bun, you can put a cap on. But when you have a bad skin day, you know, it really affects your confidence, it really affects your self esteem as well. So we really see the importance of people being able to, to feel really confident in their skin. And so Rational really deals in skin health or optimal skin health. And he's been doing it for 30 years. Over 30 years actually. And where we started was actually in the doctor's office. So we were selling product through dermatologists and plastic surgeons. And that still rings very true today in terms of what we're doing. So the endorsement and the Advocacy that we have from dermatologists and doctors. You can't buy that anymore. And we have a very, very established network of derms and doctors, plastic surgeons that partner with us at the moment to, to sell the product. But since then, the distribution channels that we've had have evolved quite significantly from, from 30 years ago. But essentially we sell really good skincare products.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Now, before we get into the detail about rationale, I wanted to share with the listeners who may not know that, that you are actually married to Ethan d', Escalo, co founder of Luggage brand July and good friend of ADD to cart. I've spoken and interviewed aan many times before.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Allegedly married. I have a marriage certificate somewhere, I'm sure.
[Voiceover]: Oh my gosh. I remember the first time I spoke with him and he was telling me about his new Luggage brand that he had just launched and I think we were talking about catching planes and I was telling him how much I love putting face masks on, like skincare on a plane. And he was like, yeah, yeah, my wife's really into skincare as well. Like, he's all about that.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: And he never mentioned really into skin care.
[Voiceover]: She's just the CEO of Rationale.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: That's all.
[Voiceover]: But anyway, I digress. I am super curious to find out what's the energy like in a marriage between two super ambitious retail leaders like you guys.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty crazy, I think. Do you know, I, I don't think we talk about work a lot at home because when we come home we're so focused on, on the kids and sort of getting through bedtime bath time and sort of having some dinner together. But it's quite nice to have, you know, like his business is, is so much more newer in terms of how young it is. But there are so many learning things that we can sort of glean from each other as well. Like, you know, how they have the hustle, the pace of where they work and the, the, the passion of a new startup is so important that I always sort of reference within our business and, you know, vice versa. Although we're going through very similar things, we're going through things similar things in very different perspectives or paces as well. So I think, I hope I was, you know, I am able to give him some advice or recommendations. I never tell him what to do. I'm always very careful about saying, do you want to know? My experience with this is how I usually sort of start a conversation when he's, you know, speaking about things that are happening. But I think it's. It's actually really nice because we're both really ambitious. We both want to be really successful in our businesses and in our roles. It's slightly different for him, right, because he started this brand. This is his baby. This is very much his first baby. And I have to be really respectful, even though my job's really demanding. I'm really respectful for the fact that he's putting in his blood, sweat, and tears into something and taking such huge risks as well. And, you know, seeing it go from strength to strength. It's quite funny because, as I sort of mentioned, we talk about things, but we don't talk about things as often. And when I meet his business partner, Richard Lee, I feel like Richard gives me a lot of what's happening in the business. And I'll go home and I'll be like, oh, my God, you're doing this. And Richard said, you're doing this and you're traveling next week to America. And he's like, yeah. So I like to catch up with his business partner a little bit more because I feel like I get a lot more context into everything. But I think it is good. And I think we have to be really. We are really respectful to each other. And I feel like I'm learning a lot from that startup sort of mentality and hustle, and I take a lot of that into what we do in this business. And hopefully he's taken a lot of learnings from. From me and rational and making sure they avoid those mistakes and their business.
[Ad]: Do you know why 99 bikes is called 99 bikes? Is it because, A, it takes 99 minutes to put the average bike together, B, they originally stocked 99 bikes, or C, they've recently eliminated 99% of their plastic packaging with the help of Signet. Well, BE is the answer, but C is also true. Not only have 99 bikes eliminated 99% of their plastic packaging, they reduced their packaging cost by 60% and packing time by 50%. That's plenty more time to swear at those spanners while you put those bikes together. Visit cygnet.net au to browse the range and contact the team to find out how they can help. Take your packaging solutions to the next level.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Love you.
[Voiceover]: I feel like a celebrity journalist now when I say this, but you're just retail royalty. But you guys have known each other since you knew, right?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Like, it must have been incredible to
[Voiceover]: have seen each other on those career journeys.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: It's quite funny. I know he tells this story, and I hate I hate it when he tells this story, but he. When I was starting out in digital marketing, I think I asked him once, like, oh, my goodness, like, how do I change a Twitter background? Like, back in the day? And he has never let that go, like, till today. I think two weeks ago, he told the story about Shami wouldn't be where she was if I didn't teach her how to change Twitter background. I'm like, I was playing damsel in distress to get your attention. But no, it is really lovely to be on that together and not wanting to get too sentimental. Ethan has always been my biggest champion and my biggest advocate. Whenever I've ever said, oh, I don't think I can do this, or I shouldn't be the CEO of Rationale, he's the first person to say, you've earned this. You need to do it. You need to just shut up and get it done. And sometimes you need a bit of that male energy of, like, just do it, you know, so. But he's always been really, really supportive of. Of me and my role, but also of. Of the business. And I'd hope to think I've always been really successful of. Successful. Really supportive of. Of July as well.
[Voiceover]: Are you the guinea pig for all the suitcases?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: I do use a lot of it. I. I love seeing what's coming up. I love seeing the color projection as well. I think in an interview he did recently, I was so shocked when he said that. Charm is my harshest su critic when it comes to bags. But there was a prototype he showed me, I think, again, a couple of weeks ago, and I said, oh, I really love it. And I wrote down, like, what I loved about it. And he read it out, and I was like, oh, my God, I've got to be so careful about what I send you. Just airing my. My deepest, darkest thoughts to everybody. But I'm like, a very practical. I think I'm a very good packer from a suitcase perspective. I love packing cells. I've always used them. I'm all about efficiency. You know, I make. I'm a person who makes spreadsheets when I travel, so I optimize the outfits I bring with the shoes and the bags. And. Yeah. So I feel like I am able to provide a little bit of that. He takes it all with a pinch of salt. But again, I prefer talking to his business partner because Richard's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. You know, when you're taking a suit or this or that, but they've got an Incredible team. So they definitely don't need me, but I, I hope I continue being a guinea pig.
[Voiceover]: What would you say are some of the things he's learned from you though?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: That's a good question. I think he's learned the importance of team from me. So I very much value team within a business because you can never do what you're doing alone. And I spend a disproportionate amount of time on the culture of our business and on the team. And I think he's really building a really important team. He's found some incredible people that have been with him and with Richard from the start and have continued to, to work through that. I think that's something that he's definitely learned. I think he's learned some of the, how to avoid some of the big mistakes as well. And I think hopefully the one other thing that he's learned is that he understands his strengths and his weaknesses. So, you know, he is very good at X, Y, Z and to get in the help for the other parts that are just not his natural sort of state of being. But I actually think Richard and him have such complementary skills regardless. But as they grow bigger, there are parts that they're both not going to be across and good at and that they need to get that in. So I feel like I identified one of those things and I told him and that they got the right person in and I think it's changed how they're doing things. So very, very few lessons, I would say.
[Voiceover]: Let's get back to rationale the business. What's really interesting about rationale is that it's actually manufactured in regional Victoria. Right. You've got a beautiful manufacturing facility, incredible office. Tell me about that.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, so part of Richard's vision was obviously to be able to manage every part of the process. So we start with the research and the development of the formulation. That very much comes again from Richard ideating what that looks like. It comes very much from all the conversations he's having with his dermatologist sort of network and plastic surgeons, them seeing what's presenting in their patients. And that changes right from region to depending on environments to what's happening in the world as well. And from there there's a lot of research that goes into developing the product. We then sort of skip to being able to distribute the product. So we distribute the product ourselves and we were doing the aftercare. But what the missing component was was actually making the product in house. We were sort of using third party manufacturers to do so. And as much as that worked really well because they were all based in Melbourne. We have that IP and we are so protective over the process of manufacturing. Our manufacturing processes and techniques are really, really quite complicated. And Richard's vision was really to be able to take care of that whole process as well. So we did. As of Last year, in 2022, we launched and set up our manufacturing facility in regional Victoria in Clinton. It's this beautiful piece of world an hour out of metropolitan Melbourne. So in there we've brought together the state of the art facility where we have our manufacturing, our admin, our research, our training facility and our logistics as well. So everything sort of encompassed here. At the end of last year, through all the commissioning and set up, we received our certification. So we've been manufacturing product here and we're starting to slowly sort of scaling up to the capacities that we need. But being able to do our manufacturing also gives us so much more control. It gives us an ability to manage our stock holdings. It gives us an ability to, to really manage the markets that we're in as well, now that we're a global business as well. So, yeah, that manufacturing side was a huge, huge undertaking. And being able to just see it, it's in sort of the center of what we do. We make sure that they're viewing galleries all around because we want our teams to be able, you know, what we're doing in the lab, what they're doing to sort of distribute the product. They can see it being made and it's quite a. It's quite, it's quite a. It's an astonishing feeling to be able to see the little machine mixing everything and putting it through the conveyor belt as well. So I do think that's another really unique proposition of ours, that provenance of Australia. That story is so important for us to tell and to tell that story authentically and, and holy. Yeah, so I think we do that well.
[Voiceover]: So as you mentioned before, Rationale was originally sold through dermatologists and plastic surgeons. But that distribution strategy has changed a lot since then, particularly since you guys were acquired by Korean beauty giant Amore Pacific. And I know that you guys do E Com and physical stores as well. Can you tell me about the omnichannel approach that you guys have now adopted and what does that strategy look like?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I think, you know, what we were doing, we started, as I sort of mentioned, with distributing through our doctors and that was our only channel and that was very much a B2B business. And as we were growing, we also sort of acknowledged the worldwide realities of what we were doing. Right. Like, doctors are so good at being able to see their patients, but back in the day when, when we started or when Richard started, doctors were really time poor, but they also dealt in illness. You know, they weren't dealing in wellness, where the wellness model is so apparent nowadays as well. But back then, dermatologists and plastic surgeons, they didn't have time. So if they did their jobs right, they should never really see a patient again. Right. Because they've cured the illness and people weren't coming back from a wellness perspective. So Richard really saw the gap of how do we provide these clients that need maintenance as well, and doctors that are so time poor that they can't be seeing just maintenance patients more. So, so how we did what we did was we really set up a network of our own flagships. And the reason of doing that was because firstly, we wanted to provide the perfect or the ultimate rational experience. We do have services in terms of facial treatments that we do as well. We take a lot of time in terms of the consultative process as well. So it was almost us being the conduit between the doctor's office and the department store and releasing our own flagship network meant we could do that really, really well. We also were able to sort of understand that accessibility was really important. And so many of our doctors were based in regional areas, but they couldn't get down to doctor's offices or clients who were based really far out weren't able to get to the doctor's offices to replenish their products. So online was obviously something that we leaned into quite early on. And I think what works really well for rationale is that that omnichannel approach that we took, they work really synergistically together. So the doctor's patient can be recommended to go into our flagship for a treatment, but they can also replenish online. But if they need to go back to see the doctor, we're really happy to sort of provide them that pathway to go back to the doctor. So it's not. We're not fighting over a patient's voice or a patient. We very much have a very holistic approach to how they interact with rationale and all the distribution channels. So we've spent a lot of time honing in on that approach. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Could you perhaps tell us a little bit about the E commerce plans that you've got at the moment and how it sort of helps you guys enter new markets?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I think, you know, we can't sort of dismiss the importance of E commerce and mainly for rationale, where it is sitting at that luxury price point of positioning. Brand discovery is really important. And as much as so many of our clients come to us through a doctor's office or seeing one of our flagships, the online interface is really important. So what we try and do with our online stores, our online presence is really to mimic what a client would get in store as well. So the consultative process, as I sort of mentioned, is so important. We want our clients to be able to have that access to, to understanding what the brand is about, what products should be recommended. You know, we want to understand what their skin goals are and how we take them through getting them onto the essential six, which is the core collection of rationale. And we're really focused on making sure the experience or the user experience online, as I mentioned, really mimics what we're doing in store. So if a client is so used to going into flagship, but then needs to replenish really quickly, they can have that same experience online of going, oh, I can speak to somebody or I can take this skincare quiz and get the answers that I need and I'll have somebody calling me back and making sure that I'm using the product in the correct way. But they're also getting the convenience and the accessibility of what online has to offer. I think how that has sort of shifted a little bit more, particularly in our new markets, is that we've started partnering with third party suppliers as well. So in America we are in Saks and Neiman Marcus online and again, it's that same thing. It's such a huge country, it's 350 million people. Brand discovery is really important for us to be able to have that touch point. So this is where our online presence really, really leans into telling the brand story and telling it really effectively.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I think as well, what's so interesting is to too, especially when we're talking about luxury skincare, I think having both the physical presence as well as E Com is so important because I know, especially as someone who is a bit of a skincare nerd, I know I would feel a bit nervous about trying something on your skin that costs quite a bit of money, but you've never actually been consulted on or tried in person. So I can completely understand that, that idea.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: And you're totally right. You know, when people ask me, what's the one product you start on with rational or with any skincare product, my answer has always been, you need to get a consultation. Because what my skin Needs at this time in my life in the region that I'm in could be so different to somebody who's living in America, who's out playing sport the whole time as well. And it's those nuances of the consultative process that I think we don't take lightly. And this is why we really invest the time and the training of our skin therapists to make sure that they can really set that basis. And it's all about relationship and it's all about trust as well. So if somebody is giving you quite a lot of time, then we take that really seriously and we want to see them through that journey. And as you said, the positioning of our product is that people have to invest in the product. But, you know, the one thing that I know is that the proof is in the pudding. Everything we do is based on research. You know, we very much are a research company that makes skin care. So I do know if we do the right thing in the right steps, we do have a client for life.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So the last time I spoke to you, you guys had just opened your LA flagship store.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Very exciting.
[Voiceover]: Can you tell me what that store is like? What's that experience like?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, it's so poignant that you bring that up. I was literally in LA two weeks ago visiting the store. It's the first time I'd been. We opened it up in November 2022. So it was so nice for me to visit the team and to be able to visit the flagship at Melrose Place as well. And I think, you know, kudos to the team and what we do. The experience that you have in our LA store is very homogenous in terms of if you had a treatment in our LARA store or you went to Perth. And it's because we also recognize that our client is a very global client, so they travel quite a lot. And a client from Sydney is probably flying to LA for a holiday, but then might stop in Singapore, for example. And we want to make sure that that client has an experience that they recognize. So if they're getting the Epinova treatment in Walara, that if they go to Melrose Place in la, they're getting exactly what they know. They feel really confident. They feel that their customized treatment really mimics what they have been doing in in Australia as well. So I think for me, that homogenous experience that they have in Melrose is so well established. I was really proud to see that. But the client is different of who we're sort of speaking to. The US client is a very Sophisticated client. They're one of the most, or probably the most sophisticated client in the world when it comes to skincare, just because they have so many different brands and they are very discerning as well. But you know, we really take into account, we have to be true to what rationale is. We're not sort of getting pulled by this is what you have to do in America. But we're also really aware and respectful that people shop in very different ways and people expect different things in, in a different region like America.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Are you able to tell me a little bit about some of those different habits or different behaviors that you've noticed in terms of U.S. shoppers?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, absolutely, the U.S. shoppers for us and you know, our experience very much. A little bit more limited to LA is the fact that that state in itself is huge. Right. And I think everybody knows about how. I didn't realize how apparent it was in terms of this. Such catchment areas, in terms of if you live in this area, you're not really going very far to get a replenishment of, of xyz. So what we really recognized is that firstly people are really discerning. So if they're giving us time and they're giving us their attention, we really make the most of it. I think service is really, really important. It's important to everybody, but more so to the American consumer that can give their time and money to anybody else. So that follow up is really important if they trust you. So us spending that time in that consultative process and giving them what they need, building that relationship means that they give you their trust and they listen to you. So that duty care that we have is really important, particularly for the US client because if they trust you, they will listen to you and they will be compliant in what they're using and they'll replenish in the right way. Them being a bit more time poor or not living near Melrose, for example, means that their treatments look slightly different. So the frequency of the treatments that they're doing probably isn't on par with what they're doing in Australia. So how we have tweaked that is to make sure that they take at home treatments with them. So our mask sales are really important. We're making sure that we're able to sort of get them that longer period of time that they're not coming into the flagships, that they're still seeing the benefits of using rationale. So that's really important. And I guess the third thing is that they love service as well. So one of the big things that we're doing and that we're sort of launching in a couple of months is this concept called rationale residency. So what we're doing is we're actually bringing our therapists into the homes of our clients who have requested to do so. So it's a huge thing that there's a huge demand in America to do so, and I'm so excited for us to launch that concept as well.
[Voiceover]: I don't think I've ever heard of that before. Was that an American thing? Is that what they do? They've got these beauty therapists coming in.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I think some of them do do it, but I think it's. It's not really spoken very clearly, and I don't think many brands do it. But we have, you know, our clients and their treatment plans are so important that it's something that we can definitely do. And our price points are at a point that, like, will qualify. Who can do that? But being able to have a rational treatment in the comfort of your own home is vitally important. But the fact of the matter is we can travel to them. It's very hard for them and they're busy schedules to travel to us as well, so why not, Right? This is the realities of retail, and it's what our clients deserve. So if our clients deserve it, and then that's definitely what we. We want to provide them with.
[Voiceover]: Oh, my gosh. It just sounds like something a Kardashian would do. I love it.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: I know. I know, Joe, it can be you, too. It can be you, too.
[Voiceover]: No, I love it. I love this idea of ultra, ultra customer service. So I'm so keen to hear about how. How it all goes for you.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Keep you updated on that one.
[Voiceover]: So when's that launching?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: That will launch in October, so the end of September. But October is really what we're doing.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And would that just start in your L A store?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yes, that will start in our L A store. We're also doing it a little bit differently where it is going to be quite a luxurious treatment. So anybody who is asking, asking us to come into their homes for this rationale residency experience will have the benefit of two therapists working on you at the same time. So, yep, it's pretty incredible. Four hands working on you. You're gonna look so beautiful, young and relaxed. It's. It's beyond.
[Voiceover]: Oh, my gosh. That just sounds like the ultimate afternoon. That sounds incredible and so jealous. What are your plans for the US how are they looking at the moment.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: So we're still obviously quite young. We're coming into our one year of being there. But I think the realities of our omnichannel distribution is really important. So we are definitely working with agents. So we've got a number of really high profile dermatologists and plastic surgeons partnering with us, which is so important. So that's something we want to continue doing because that natural endorsement and advocacy is something you cannot buy and they so very much believe in, in research and clinical studies as well. So we're definitely leaning into, into that Al Melrose Place is, is important for us to have that flagship and have that stamp in the ground that, you know, we are here, we are real, we are somebody to be reckoned with. And then the online realities of Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue having that online is really important for our growth as well. So that's something that we're looking into to grow, to continue growing our third party relationships. It's not something we're probably, probably doing as much in Australia because we're so much more established, but we definitely see the opportunities in America particularly for us to pursue that a lot more. So it's that focus on where the clients are coming from in the US that we're going to and effectively making everything that we're doing there a lot louder. But also trying not to get distracted by too many things because, you know, the shiny baubles are always the downfalls of us having constant concentrated effort and focus as well. So it's continuing to work with the doctors online and third party that we're doing as well.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Moving on. Just off the back of these very luxurious decadent beauty therapist sessions at home.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yes.
[Voiceover]: We are basically in a retail recession right now.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And you're in the business of luxury skincare. I really want to hear from you what your thoughts are on the economic landscape. Are you concerned about the rising cost of living and how has that sort of impacted the way that you approach business?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I mean, Joe, always with the hard hitting journalistic questions, I have to say. No, I think, you know, you're right. You know, we cannot sort of close our eyes off to sort of what is happening in the world. And we, although we are a luxury skincare, our client base, our demographic base expands quite tremendously as well. Because again, how we sell the product and where we sell the product means that we're getting people that are very much getting the product prescribed from their doctor. Right. So we're not just having people that have a lot of disposable cash to spend. So I think what we've done slightly differently and really acknowledging what is sort of going around in the world is that time is really important and education is really important. So. So I come back to the fact that the proof is in the pudding with our product and we have a very long term relationship in terms of what we do with a client as well. So we're not here to sort of, you know, sell six product and then never see you again and just sort of cross our fingers and hope for the best. We'd rather sort of sit down with you, understand what your situation is and be able to provide the best sort of regimen that you need. So it might be starting with these two most important products to sort of help with your skin concerns at the moment, and then we'll slowly get you onto the rest of the products as well. So the two things that we're really holding in and that we're really focused on in this climate is that education process of our team members to make sure that they understand that there are clients that are going to be shifting how they spend their money and what they spend their money on. And because of that, the education of the brand, things we probably want, weren't talking to very loudly two years ago, we're starting to, to make a lot more out of. So that's very much for us to be leading into our research, very particularly our clinical research as well, to actually show this is what keeps us apart from everybody else. And this is why you're getting results from using the product. And this is not just an aesthetic proposition, this is also a skin health proposition. So I think that's the difference. But we also are really understanding that people have changed the way they approach their spending and it is about positioning this as a need to have product because it is about your skin health as well.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So moving on, I know that you actually started at Rationale as a digital marketing coordinator back in 2011. Right, 2011. And then six years later you became Rational's, I want to say, first CEO. Is that right? Were you the first CEO?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: I was the first CEO, yes.
[Voiceover]: Incredible. Tell me about this trajectory. What was that journey like? How did you find this tenacity and the confidence to take on such a workload in such a short period of time?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a multiple, it's multiple factors that really come into this. Right. When I started, I really believed in the company, I really believed in the vision of what they were trying to do and When I joined the business, they were solely a B2B business and they had ambitions to opening that up online. And that's one of the reasons why I was brought on from my digital marketing background as well. But the team was so small when I started. It was sort of six to nine people in head office. And I think when a company is so small, the team that you're working with is. Is really important and you just want to be a team player. I think that was my biggest thing. I just wanted to lean in. I wanted to help my colleagues who were doing different things, different departments. And I cannot underrate the fact that the founders in the business were a huge part and really instrumental in affording me some of these opportunities, which I, you know, I leaned into as well. But it really came down to the fact that I put my hand up for everything because, again, you really believe in what they're trying to achieve and you can see the opportunity there. And, you know, when you're also a lot younger, like, working hard isn't an issue. You like the people that you're working with. You believe in the work and you want to see an outcome happen. So I think it's the culmination of a lot of those things. And the workload, I don't see it as workload. I see it more as, like, it gives you perspective when you're doing a lot of things across a lot of different departments. I think that makes my perspective quite unique because although I've come from a digital background and I was very much in sales and, you know, brand management, being able to sort of work in the production side and the research side and, you know, at one stage I think they needed somebody to do payroll. And I put my hand up to do payroll because I was like, well, somebody's got to press a button and it's not that easy. But it gave me perspective because when that team grew, I really had so much more context and color into. This is why they need these systems. This is why we need to automate these sort of things as well. So I think it really helped for me from that perspective. I think the journey was really interesting because, you know, you go from being somebody's colleague and teammate to being their manager. And, you know, for anybody doing that transition, it's. It's actually really challenging and it's really tough. And I think that's where, you know, you get over yourself a little bit more. You get over yourself quite quickly. They take you down a peg or two or many pegs, but you Know, you quickly work out the people that you thought were really supportive of you. You know, the moments of jealousy that do take place, and it's. It's the situation. It's not you that you have to sort of pull yourself back. But, you know, the flip side of that is that there are so many team members there that are so supportive and want to see you succeed. And so many of those guys are still here in the business today, and it's so nice to see that they've grown in their trajectory as well. But I think you just become a lot more confident in who you are. And I think, for me is that I've been in the business for 12 years. I know rationale really well. I know where we started from. I know you know what we have to have as important. I know that we've tried not to have any sacred cows, but, yeah, I think it's. You just. You're surrounded by really supportive people. And again, I can't sprug how important supportive founders have been in the business as well. So, yeah, it's. It's. It's been a ride. It's been a wild ride.
[Voiceover]: I love that. I can imagine, as well, that I'm not sure about Richard, but I can imagine for some founders, like, letting go of control and bringing on board your first CEO would be quite a challenge.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Totally.
[Voiceover]: Well, you're basically giving your baby over, right?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah. And at the end of the day, for so many founders, the brand or the service or whatever you've started is really an extension of who you are as a person. So anything that somebody does suggest is, you know, a vote for or against who you are, and how you navigate through that and not take it personally is. Is huge as well. And I think Richard is so great at his vision and his leadership, and we have really honed in our relationship in the last 12 years. There's a lot of mutual respect. We have a lot of robust conversations, which I think is really important and really healthy. But at the end of the day, we're trying to achieve the same thing. And, you know, I feel like this company is. Is. I treat it as my own. And when you treat something as your own, you're fighting for it as if, you know it is your baby. And I think he appreciates that with a lot of the people that have been in the business for a really long time. But, yeah, it's. It's definitely a learning curve, and taken us 12 years to get to a really good point.
[Ad]: It's the calm before the storm, and Unlike George Clooney in the Perfect Storm. Spoiler alert. Shopify wants retailers to come out not just alive, but thriving because it's a big deal, especially here in Australia. Last year, Australian merchants ranked third globally in Black Friday Cyber Monday sales volume. What an opportunity. So if you want to maximize your share of the peak sales this year, use this time before the storm to download and read Shopify's Peak Season playbook. They've got 10 experts, including me, to share their tips on how to maximize sales at this time. So put on your life jacket and get your hands on Shopify's free Peak Season playbook. Download it at shopify.com/guides peaksales Season 2023 or just follow the links in the episode show notes from the device. You are on Land Ahoy.
[Voiceover]: I just want to preface this next question by saying I would absolutely ask a the same thing if I was interviewing him now.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Okay.
[Voiceover]: As we mentioned before, you have two quite young children, right. I think one of them is around the same age as mine. So what, five?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yes, exactly.
[Voiceover]: And you both lead very demanding careers with a lot of international travel thrown in. I can barely manage one and my husband and I both live in Sydney. What's it like sort of juggling demanding careers with a young family?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, I mean, Ethan spoke about this quite recently as well. But I think we I'm definitely a planner, so I like to plan everything as much as possible. We sort of communicate really well, and I think it's that mutual understanding that not one job is more important than the other. We both have to do certain things. And there are certain times in the month or in the year where his job is really demanding and he needs that time to travel and he needs that time to fly to different states to do different things. And then on the flip side, there are some parts where I'm really challenged in terms of I've got board meetings or I've got, you know, intense things happening in the business that need my full attention. So I think being able to prioritize those things are really important for us. We can always talk about it. I think there's no resentment within the work that we're doing. So I think that's really important as well. But we also, like, from a very practical point of view, we do have a village that we have. We are so lucky to have his parents that live quite near. We moved actually to be near them and they help us tremendously with the care of our two kids. And we have a nanny who's been with us for Five years as well. And so we rely really heavily on Sam to. To make sure that we're sort of working. And, you know, when my parents come and visit from Singapore, they're really helpful as well. But it's. It's. There's a lot of planning and there's a lot of understanding, you know, now that I'm working out in regional Victoria. That, you know, Ethan has to step up with some of the. Dropping the kids off or picking the kids up, you know, on some days. And then some days I'm able to get back a little bit earlier, and he can do what he has to do. But, you know, I think it's. It's the reality of our lives. And he's. I just came back from being away for three weeks for work, and I took an extra five days to visit some friends. And it was so funny because everybody was like, how did Ethan survive? He's not. He's not a babysitter. Like, he's a parent. And he loved it. He loved spending time with the kids, and they bonded. And, you know, it was. It was that period of three weeks where my work had priority, and he knew that he had to sort of dial down a little bit. But now that I'm back, I'm so conscious that he's got to make up for that time. And so it's. It's this game of. Of. Of what we do. But it's quite funny because when he went away for three weeks, nobody asked me, like, how are you going to survive? It was just. It was just. Yeah, they just assumed I'd do it. But, you know, Ethan's great, I have to say, so it makes it easier.
[Voiceover]: Yes. Yes. I feel like I understand your frustration about the expectations on working mothers, but I feel like that's a different episode for another day. But I love what you're talking about. Pushing and pulling and leaning back in and out of each other, and it all sort of swings and roundabouts. I mean, I guess it's just like Beyonce and Jay Z would have the same thing.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: He's on tour at that moment. The same thing.
[Voiceover]: He's probably taking care of Blue Ivy. Well, Blue Ivy's on tour now with them. But, you know, like, it's the same thing. Working parents make it work.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Yeah, working parents. And in. In some instances, I take my daughter with me when I travel, and so he. You know, so he can do what he does with our son. But, yeah, it's exactly the same thing as Jay Z and Beyonce. Thanks, Joe. I also look exactly like Beyonce.
[Voiceover]: So Blue Ivy got a Grammy because she eventually started working with Beyonce. But anyway, last question. What is next for Rationale?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: I think, you know, definitely what's next for Rationale is our international expansion. We're so focused and we're so disciplined on making sure we're doing everything to get that right, particularly in the U.S. so all our concerted effort is going towards that. It's also going towards our research. We have to continue going quite deep into our innovation, the research of the product and also the clinical studies that we're doing. So those three things are probably the most main focuses for the next foray for Rationale. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And if our listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way of doing that?
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Oh, God, I think the best way would just be through Instagram or I don't want to give up my email address.
[Voiceover]: I hear you, I hear you.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: But I mean, I am on Instagram. I'm not super active, but, you know, definitely slide into my DMs. You're so cool. Is that what the kids are saying?
[Voiceover]: So cool.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: So cool.
[Voiceover]: Well, thank you so much for today. It's always a pleasure speaking with you. Lots of fun. And thank you for being so candid as well.
Sharmini Rajarathnam: Oh, thanks so much, Jo. It's always a pleasure and it's always nice to. To chat to you. I really, really enjoy it.
[Voiceover]: How fun was that? Ch, I always learn so much after a conversation with Sharmini, as well as just having a good old laugh or two. Here were a few of the things that I took note of from our chat today. First, one is brand consistency matters. Rationale wants to ensure that customers get a familiar experience and try to replicate online what a client would get in store. So how could you translate from what's in your physical stores to the ecom experience? Secondly, know your market. Understanding the US customer and how they differ from others has been critical in building Rationale success in the States. Sharmini mentioned the unique geography, the trust and service factor, and the importance of clinical studies and research. And lastly, be a team player. Sharmini prioritised this when she started at Rationale. She wanted to support the teams, so she put her hand up for everything and moved around to work in different areas of the business. By doing this, she gained a great overview of the company's needs and ended up being in a great position to take on the top job. So thanks for listening and keep those customers adding to Cart.
[Ad]: Thanks for joining us today on Add to Cart. To listen to all our e commerce conversations, now in the hundreds. You can head on over to addtocart.com there you can also join up to our free private Slack community to share e commerce ideas, tips and questions with other listeners. You can also subscribe to the Add to Cart weekly newsletter and browse some of the video highlights from our chats. There is a lot there. That's addtocart.com au and if I can ask you you one thing before you go. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague who could benefit or leave us a review. It really makes a difference. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep those customers adding to cartoon.
