Sarah Hamilton: We were like, what can we sell for $50 US? How can it look as colourful as possible and how can it generate results literally after the first go? I think in 2023 it's about that. It's like always that test and learn. It's not really spending a million dollars on a brand awareness campaign. It was the best parties I've ever been to. So like Liv Tyler, Kate Moss, like everyone there.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that press delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.
Nathan Bush: My guest today comes to you from a live event that we recorded last week. Add to cart, as in me was in Sydney for impact.com's IPX partnerships experience 2023 and we were lucky enough to be invited on stage to have an Add to CART chat in person. And better still, we were able to record it and share it with you today. Now, to say Sarah Hamilton has done a few things is a huge understatement. She's a founder of Success stories Sand and Sky, Bella Box and newly launched Strand, a scalp healthcare brand. She has a background in financial management and marketing, previously worked in London at Dazed and Confused magazine and New York for Spin magazine. She's currently an advisor for Mermaid Hair and Hunter Labs and leads the private label team at Adore Beauty. Wowzers. The theme for our conversation at IPX was how to create cult brands and hero products and we discuss this at length. She has some great insights, but we also dive into the influencer strategies that Sarah's employed over the years. Sarah talks about the role of Amazon in the growth of her brands and I get seriously schooled in all things beauty. No surprise there. At the end of our chat, I did a little bit of a wrap up with impact.com's Ayaan Mohammed, Regional Vice President of APAC Marketing and the person who was responsible for bringing this whole ginormous event together. So instead of me telling you the three takeaways from Sarah's chat, I've asked Diane to share hers with us. So here it is. Here's our live conversation with Sarah Hamilton, co founder of sand and Sky.
Sarah Hamilton: Sarah, over to Nathan and Sarah.
Nathan Bush: Make some noise. Thank you, Pete. I think that's our time off.
Sarah Hamilton: I know. Do you know, it's so funny, I got my hair coloured yesterday and it's normally this beautiful blonde and my kids told me last night that I look old because it's grey. So excuse me, I won't name my hairdresser But I feel. So I came to Sydney today.
Nathan Bush: I was like, we're on a podcast.
Sarah Hamilton: Oh, no. I know. Yeah. So no one sees. Yeah, I normally have that colour here.
Nathan Bush: Before we get in, I've been told that we have to have a selfie with everyone here.
Sarah Hamilton: Okay, cool.
Nathan Bush: So let's do that.
Nathan Bush: Let's.
Nathan Bush: This is bad podcast content, actually. The first thing you do is get a selfie. So let's do that. Everyone try and look excited.
Sarah Hamilton: Stand up. Or are they.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, stand up. Get up, get up.
Nathan Bush: Look at this.
Nathan Bush: My wife would laugh so hard if she knew I was in charge of the selfie.
Sarah Hamilton: Same.
Nathan Bush: All right, I'm gonna go this way as well. This is not me. This is.
Sarah Hamilton: This is the rules with my grading.
Nathan Bush: Alright, thanks. That's honestly not me. I've been told to do that. I'm not a selfie guy. All right, let's get into it. We've got half an hour. We've got so much.
Sarah Hamilton: I think Nathan and I met. We had a call and he was like, I'll give you the questions. I'm like, I actually don't want to know the questions because I'll be more honest. So that pause is making me worried.
Nathan Bush: No, I. To be honest, I listened to a podcast that you previously done on the plane here, and in that podcast you said that you have a tendency to walk into a room and just break the awkwardness with something random. Waiting for that.
Sarah Hamilton: That's the hair. That's the grey hair. Great. All right.
Nathan Bush: So we heard from Pete all the amazing things that you've done when you are speaking to people for the first time. How do you describe what you do?
Sarah Hamilton: It's so funny. And I actually changed my LinkedIn profile and I think I hate that entrepreneur. I've never wanted to be an entrepreneur. And someone once said to me, you're a mumpreneur, which is quite derogatory as we move on in life. But I don't know. I love new brands, so I really love the new brand space. I love the digital marketing space, I love the affiliate space, obviously. So, I mean, interested in brands that sort of get to zero. From 0 to 20 million USD, cocaine, even Sanskar, beyond that, which is great. But, yeah, I love that space and I love sort of challenging marketing norms. And actually I was at IPX in New York, so I did see Trevor nowhere. And that little robot dance, I think, which was very impressive as good in real life, which is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. And it was quite a big crowd, so he did very well, to do that. But, you know, I was really interested in how big the affiliate space is in the US And a lot of people that I spoke to were like, that's. They're like, that's the only way I shop. Whereas in Australia it's quite different. So that's what I love is like, it shouldn't. So I came to Bella Box without a beauty background. So as business, I ran music magazines in New York. I was the numbers person. So made sure that they made money, which is hard for magazines, as everyone knows. But I loved coming in without having any preconceived idea on what you need to do to run a beauty brand and what, how you should market and how you should retail. So that's what I love. So I love a challenge. But it does continue to be in that consumer sort of space.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, great.
Sarah Hamilton: So I always have a long winded answer.
Nathan Bush: It's not, it's. I honestly, when I was looking at it, I was like, I wouldn't even know how to describe you. Like.
Sarah Hamilton: And then I got now, so I've got more things.
Nathan Bush: I even got more confused because I was doing research and I came across Sarah Hamilton, who's a beekeeper and I was like, and she's got a company called Be Yourself. And I was like, pretty clever. And I was like, don't tell me this is you as well. But it's not. What are you most proud of so far?
Sarah Hamilton: I don't know. I think so. Sand and Sky Coco Neve launched in a time where Instagram was really huge. And it was also, I remember probably one is. So sand and sky were office in Melbourne and it was when there were a lot of Chinese brands on Instagram and so everyone was really suspicious. You'd buy something that looked good and then it would be shipped by China Post and you know, it wouldn't be what you expected. So someone said, they're from China, it's made in China. And we're actually on the corner of Flinders Lane and Elizabeth Street. So as a team, we took a photo of a tram going past the whole team and we were like, we're in Melbourne. And then just seeing the customer reaction, they're like, I know where that office is. They are Australian. So I feel like breaking that taboo was really important to me because I'm like, yeah, but we are Australian. We're not something that you perceive us to be so very proud of, trying to create products that are really true to what they say that they'll do. So it's not A gimmick. They work really quickly. And that we try and do Australian made as much as possible.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Great. And we're going to dive into what makes a cult brand.
Sarah Hamilton: Yes.
Nathan Bush: Like you've created with Bellabox and Sand and Sky. Before we get into both of those brands, can you give everyone a little bit of an overview if they haven't experienced it themselves?
Sarah Hamilton: So Bella Box is almost like a great stepping stone. So I was living in New York and there were these two girls who went to Harvard and they started a beauty subscription box. So back in 2008, when you know you'd only buy beauty products from the department store, you'd go up to Giorgio Armani, for example. Great brand. But you'd buy seven different products, you spent $600 and nothing worked. And so this was about how you got to sample products before you bought. And it wasn't just, I love a goodie bag, but it wasn't sampling in a goodie bag that had no connect to the customer. It was like, we know that this customer has received this product, this shade, rah, rah. So it just created a really tight loop in terms of getting feedback on products. And people loved that they could pay, gosh, $15 at that point to then sample five products. So that was the sort of catalyst and then that helped us learn how to market other people's brands, which is why we then created brands.
Nathan Bush: Great.
Nathan Bush: And sand and Sky.
Sarah Hamilton: Sand and sky. That was. We had. We actually have a failed teeth whitening brand. So if anyone knows, Hismile. HiSmile launched two weeks too early for our liking and did an excellent job. We had one called Pop Smile. We had Pop Smile and Sand and sky in the mix. And Pop Smile, we had clinically proven ingredients, but we just couldn't market it as well as High Smile could. So we thought, okay, we'll start this other brand, sand and sky, where we had one product and we thought, we'll be able to. Both teams will be able to do both and we'll see how it goes. And I think we did 20 million US in that first year on one SKU. And it just was because it worked. So it was just. And we focused on the U.S. so we actually, especially now, don't love Australian dollars, love US Dollars. So our goal, one of our early investors in Bellabox had said to us, you'll work ten times as hard for sale in Australia as you will in the US So then we were like, cool, we'll just make a product that's for the US and we had infrastructure in place. But that was the catalyst. And it was also when the Chanel's of the world. So everything was really minimalist on social media. But social media loves color. Loves color. So we were like, what can we sell for $50 US? How can it look as colorful as possible? And how can it generate results? Literally after the first go and that it was like four of us that sort of started it and it was that simple. And then there's this little brush that goes with the clay mask. Because clay masks are really bad under your fingernails. And I feel like we decided about that six weeks out. But it just meant that there's so many clay mask brands that copy that. And it was a way to apply the product that then created a ritual so people didn't just feel like they were buying another product. They're like, oh no. When I get it, I put the brush in and then I put it all over my face. And then I have this 10 minutes. So we just accidentally came upon this sort of routine or ritual based application of a clay mask that's been around for a long time, which then catapulted us.
Nathan Bush: Amazing.
Nathan Bush: And then I heard the second product that you released had a waiting list of 17,000 people before there was even reviews or anyone had experienced it.
Sarah Hamilton: I know. And this is, it is funny because that wait list work. So we were really. Anytime we sold out, we used to hate it. But we used to count the number of people on the waitlist when we were like great for PR very much with new products. Like we were trying to create hype around it. But there were products that that worked and we knew that that's captured people's attention. So again, that's what is interesting about marketing now. It always changes. And even now people are going back to print. Like I think it's always really important that you keep questioning how you're marketing your product. But a wait list, everyone is an absolute fomo. Like people are an absolute sucker for Wastelist. So that worked well.
Nathan Bush: Amazing.
Nathan Bush: And is the majority of your sales now in the U.S. so it'd be
Sarah Hamilton: 70% in the U.S. okay.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful. So it's fair to say that you've got experience with cult brands.
Sarah Hamilton: We didn't ever really celebrate the wins like that. I think it's more when you meet people and they're like, I know that actually I was getting a facial a while ago because I feel old. So I'm harping on about that. And the girl was like, oh, what do you do? And I said, I'm involved with Sam sky, and she's like, oh, what are you, like, their cfo? I'm like, no, I'm the founder. So, yeah. So they're the moments when you meet people away that they're like, oh, my God, really? And I'm always like, are you shocked? Or is it just that? I didn't understand how big it had got, but certainly our first retailer that approached us for sand and sky was Harrods, and that was like wholesale at sand and Sky. And I got those emails because there was four of us and it was one Monday morning there, Sunday night, and I was just like, oh, my God, I think it's Harrods. So that sort of recognition was huge. So maybe Colt, I don't know. But, yeah, it's always. There's always more to do.
Nathan Bush: Do we have anyone in the audience who would consider them the brand that they've either started or they work for as a cult brand? No hands.
Nathan Bush: You are so.
Sarah Hamilton: Put it up higher.
Nathan Bush: Yes, July. Yes, I know there are more in here. I know. We've got New Balance, we've got Inku, we've got Modibody. There's plenty of cult brands in the audience today and plenty that are on that trajectory as well. So we're going to dive into that a little bit more. What do you think the secret is to creating a cult brand in 2023?
Sarah Hamilton: In 2023, I think it's still what makes you stop? So I'm always with the team that we have, I'm always like, what makes you stop when you're scrolling, what's interesting, what challenges do you have? You know, I think with Santa's sky, it was like paws. Everyone hates their paws, just as a general rule. And so it was like, you don't want to focus in on the negative, but you're trying to solve for something. And I think especially with beauty, it's hard because there's so many beauty products. So you're asking people to add to their routine and then once they add to their routine, they're asking them to replace something in their routine. So I think it is. It's still. That's why I think it's great. The people that work in the brand should be e commerce shoppers. Like, again, it's like, what? And it's nothing's. You know, you can't fail at anything. You have to try different ways of marketing your product. And even someone said to me the other day, I think banging body, I don't know yet. They did all These really cool mystery boxes and that. And Frank Green, I think did it and I'm like, God, that's so old school. But that works. So I think in 2023, it's about that's like always that test and learn. It's not really spending a million dollars on a brand awareness campaign. I don't really like when people say brand awareness. It's really about, look, I'm seeing this brand doing X. Why don't I try something like that? I test a little bit of budget. Like, I always think you never go with an influencer Outside High Smile addict Kim Kardashian. It's huge. You do the micros first, you see what resonates in terms of your audience and what converts and then you go higher than that. So. And that's a very, like, that was a Bella box strategy was like that test and learn. It's like, we're not going to throw all this money. It's like really understanding what channels work for us and then continuing to test those. I feel like from a US point of view and Australian brands find this hard is like, for beauty, you have to be on Amazon. And I know I have come up with people like, I don't want to be on Amazon. And I'm like, but it's where people shop. And I met with Ulta in the US about Sand and sky and they were like, we don't want you to be on Amazon. And I was like, okay, well, how many times do you get packages from Amazon? And I'm thinking as if they're going to fall for this question. And they're like, every day. And I'm like, okay, that made it easy for me. So it's understanding in those different markets what works. But yeah, for me, I'm such a fan of Amazon, it's certainly the cheapest in terms of the commission that you pay. And it's also, you've got to go where the shopper is. So, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Are you seeing a significant change for the Australian shopper choosing to shop through Amazon as a first choice?
Sarah Hamilton: I feel like it is changing and, you know, because I'm a mum, so I hear about the mums at school that are then all of a sudden buying birthday presents. And that's one because they're really disorganized. So it's Friday and they're like, oh, my God, I haven't bought a birthday present for Jimmy, so I'm buying it today. So it is changing. I think there's just a lot of brands that are scared of Amazon, but that's obviously what happened in the us.
Nathan Bush: Did you have any of those same thoughts that turned out to be fur fees.
Sarah Hamilton: So with Amazon at Supernova, we got approached by a girl who's ex nab, who is amazing, and she said, this is what I can do for you on Amazon. And we just gave her a chance and it was the best thing we did and ended up being 10% of our sales. Is Amazon.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Great. Really interested to talk. You've mentioned a routine a few times when creating a cult brand. When you launch a brand or a new product, for instance, is that something you consciously go after? Is changing a routine first and foremost or do you still market product first?
Sarah Hamilton: So I think there's still hero products needed, need to be marketed. So it would be my personal view, happy for everyone to disagree, but it's just so hard to split your advertising budget across too many products. So I think a hero product will get people in so that like, what works straight away in beauty, but then the routine needs to be part of the education. So they come on and it's like once you've captured them, you obviously want them to repeat purchase and then it's about encouraging them to buy more of the skus. So that routine is there. It's interesting for scalp health because. And dandruff, because it's still a new category. People are not only looking for a quick fix, but they know that they need to change that. So with Stran, we do a little bit of both, so we recognise we need to have that hero, but we understand that people are like, I need something to change with my scalp. So they want a little help in terms of that routine.
Nathan Bush: And does changing routine take a long time?
Sarah Hamilton: No, I don't think so. So, you know, with Stram, we've got a shampoo. I don't know if you'll wash it co wash your hair. But, you know, a lot of people encourage people to use two shampoos. So instead of going after their primary shampoo, we're saying, be your secondary shampoo shampoo to help the scalp.
Nathan Bush: Two shampoos. I'm like, conditioner, this is great.
Sarah Hamilton: It's so funny, when we were pitching for investment for Strand, I had like all these lots of men that you still pitch to, which is fine. And they're like, but I use Imperial Leather. And I'm just like, ask your wife. Because I don't think I'm going to convince you. But yeah, so it is. There is. It's such a strong element and it's really about trying to read what the brand needs. But certainly in terms of digital marketing, it's easier to start with a hero product.
Nathan Bush: What's the unsexy part of creating a cult product? It all looks very glamorous on the outside, very exciting, but surely there's just some parts of it that you go, you've just got to nail these parts first.
Sarah Hamilton: It's funny because the product has to work. So I think that's still the sexy part. But it's hard at the start. It's got to be sensorial, so people have to open it up and it smells good. You know, it's got like. And that's why the routine, like with brush. I think the unsexy part is really. And I really like the operations. But now it needs to be delivered really quickly. So you need to be dispatching really quickly. You need to have really strong customer service. You know, you can't have website issues. You know, everything really needs to be seamless. But in the business I've been involved in, we try and separate those teams, but they are just as important. So, yes, there's probably the glory team on the sexy side, but the team that really makes a big, big difference is that operational team. Yeah, you can't ignore it, unfortunately.
Nathan Bush: Still gotta do the basics.
Sarah Hamilton: They've gotta do the basics. Numbers have to make sense.
Nathan Bush: Sephron's like, can we just skip the basics?
Sarah Hamilton: I know, and I know I said this to Nathan, like, I'm really obsessed with unit economics. So when we look at a new product is like how we're profitable on first sale. I feel like I see a lot of startup businesses that are like, that's fine. I only need a 20% margin. Cause I'm paying myself and my cousin to pack the boxes and it's like, okay. But it's really important to get that right. You need to know that, you know, in future I'm going to have this sort of stuff, this sort of marketing budget, et cetera. So that is. I'm extra annoying on that with the team and they all know it, but it is the unsexy part. But if you get that right, you spend less time on that and you can spend more time on the sexy part.
Nathan Bush: Is there a GP that you won't go under when you're looking at a new product?
Sarah Hamilton: 80 to 85%. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Okay.
Sarah Hamilton: Beautiful.
Nathan Bush: You mentioned micro influencers before. Can you share the role that partnerships have played in developing the brands that you've developed?
Sarah Hamilton: I feel like it's definitely a really strong channel. So if we think about influencers as partners, we always went for really interesting influencers. I think there's influencers that have authority so they get to establish your brand. But then it's sort of funny once your brand's built, then it's really the interesting people. So I think with Cocoa and Eve we used some Kim Kardashian fake like the Love Island Girls. A rabbit, a cat. What A rabbit and a influence profile. So we worked in how the products could be related to them. It's more so that they're vegan. But really again what captures people's attention and then collaboration.
Nathan Bush: Rabbits and hair products probably haven't gone well since the Asia.
Sarah Hamilton: You don't put it on the fur but they sniff around it. But yeah, I think. And then partnerships like I love doing collaborations with brands and I know with Sam's Guy, we did a collaboration with Goto and Frank Body. I actually think in beauty in Australia there's lots of brands that really like to work together. So they're. Yeah, the sort of main areas that we look at and we really love. And it's still, I think it's so important now. I think a lot of influencer is moving to more long term ambassador type deals. So people don't just want to see a one off and then someone does another shampoo next week. It's about how you've got that long term relationship and obviously affiliate on top of those. Partnerships work really well. So they've got that dual income source. But yeah, that's how we're shifting and then I think it's real people. So at Strand we're doing a trial team with 30 people right now and they'll be part of our campaigns because we want to show it's not just the bikini models. I shouldn't say that, but you know, it's about real people and then the real concerns I think is resonating with the audience at the moment.
Nathan Bush: Sounds like you've tried a lot of different avenues with your partnerships. Have there been any that you've kind of taken bets in the office so you're like, this one won't work but we'll give it a go. That's really surprised you.
Sarah Hamilton: We did a lot. So with sand and sky, we did a lot with tourism type influences. Like, you know, and they're sleeping in the bottle in the back of these really beautiful caravans and everything. And we'd have like sand and sky there and that worked well. Like I think, yeah, we've done the whole Gamut. So Supernova had skinny mint tea and they did a campaign with Kylie Jenner and that was like the most successful. It was like when she. There's rumours that she was pregnant and I feel like now, I think back, she must have been like 16 at that stage. So that's probably wrong. But she wasn't. But she wore a little midriff top and then everyone bought the product. So I think. I'm trying to think what's really. I think it's more just interesting people. And I think with sand and sky, we did a lot of makeup influences and we would make them put the mask on before they did their makeup look. Because what we found is the makeup videos you watch from start to finish, because you can't have half a Halloween look, you've got the full one. And so we just inserted ourselves at the start of all these influencer videos and that did extremely well. Even though you should never put a mask on and then put makeup on straight away because it clogs your pores.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I'm learning so much.
Sarah Hamilton: You're going to go home and you're going to be like, right, co washing my hair. I've got a mask on at night
Nathan Bush: and I've got this beautiful present for you. Which is a swag bag.
[Voiceover]: Exactly.
Nathan Bush: Tell me, what won't you negotiate when it comes to new partners, whether that be influencers? How could that come to influencers or otherwise? When you're putting your brand out there and you're trusting other people with your brand, what are the non negotiables for you?
Sarah Hamilton: I think it's. They have to use the product and like it. I think it has to be authentic and I think you used to be able to get away with it, perhaps not being. But I love those. Is it celebs spell check, where they're always like paying out influencers that do the wrong thing? Love that. The goal is never to be on that. But yeah, so it is more the authenticity, like. And you have to have. Like, we did a thing with Martha Kay and she. With Sam sky, and she did this shot, a nude shot in the bath and then she said she was bathing in Tasmanian water. That was all her. So we worked with her on that. We're like, how do we do something that gets in the Daily Mail because we know that sells. That's interesting. But then plays into the product. So it is like not a really strict briefing process because you want their personality to come through. But I think it's just being like, do you actually really like the product. And so we like when people come to us and they're like, I'd love to review the product, but. And there's been people again, that have done, like one thing one week and then another competitive brand next week, so we don't work with them again.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, but it sounds like even Frank Body in that, you know, you work closely within the industry as well.
Sarah Hamilton: Yeah, yeah. We have a nice little group in Melbourne that are a lot of the beauty founders and it's great, everyone shares ideas. Like, we did a presentation last week of all our digital marketing, like, what's working and what's not working. And it's really sweet because in the end you can compete, but you're the one that's going to create your brand and create that success. You can't just copy. Some do it, but it's very hard to just copy exactly what someone else is doing. So I think with that group, we try and work as a collective and be like, here, this is a good idea. But then probably know that there's boundaries. So if we were copying someone's campaign, you might not get invited to the next lunch.
Nathan Bush: Because it's a fine line, isn't it? Because I heard that you created Bella Box and it was inspired by Birchbox.
Sarah Hamilton: Yes.
Nathan Bush: Then you've had the opposite happen to you where you've had Aldi copy Sand and Sky. So there's a big, big line between inspiration and flat out copying.
Sarah Hamilton: Yeah, the Aldi one was hilarious. So they copied Coco and Eve and sand and sky and. But just in the uk and I'm from Geelong and my mum, when she found out about it, she's like, I'm going to go into Aldi in Geelong and I'm going to let them know this is my daughter's and I don't think you should be doing that. I'm like, mum, that is so lovely.
Nathan Bush: Did she do it?
Sarah Hamilton: No. I'm like, but it's only for sale in London. She's like, okay, well, next time I'm
Nathan Bush: going to send an angry letter.
Sarah Hamilton: But yeah, the Aldi thing was wild. Like, I think they copied Charlotte Tilbury, Pixie, like all these really big brands. And then it was like sand and Sky. And then it's almost obviously sand and sky did well for them. So their next round of dupes was Coco and Eve. And we were really like, okay. And there's not much you can do. So they obviously have a great team of lawyers. That means that they just do a little bit that then separates the product so that they can keep selling it.
Nathan Bush: But anything you learned from that experience, when we're coming back to Kolt Brands, when you've put so much time, effort into creating these cult brands, anything you've learned to help protect your brand, I
Sarah Hamilton: think you can only do what you're doing. So obviously trademarking gets you so far. But even if you go to Alibaba now, like, there's copies of Sam's Guy and Coco and Eve, so there's obviously some jurisdictions that you don't have much ability to change. I don't know, you know, it's. Various things have come up along the way. I don't know how much you can do to challenge people. You can write a nasty letter and it depends on who's got bigger lawyers on their side.
Nathan Bush: But get your mum the right one.
Sarah Hamilton: Yeah, exactly. Even Coco and Eve had Chanel come to them and say, you can't use Coco. Like Coco Chanel, it's like, what? It's like completely different. So, yeah, I don't know. And it's more. I actually really like Sunday Body. I love that they've done their diffusion lining Kohl's, so I think it's more. And we actually talked to Boots about it with sand and Sky. Almost wonder if the strategy is more about being open to those sort of conversations. So then you're seeing. Still protecting your brand, but you're like, how do I create a more accessible version? That's sort of on my mind.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, great.
Nathan Bush: Well, I can see Pete's ready to jump up on stage. Is there a question that you've never been asked that you wish someone would ask you? Oh, this is me being lazy about this.
Nathan Bush: I know.
Sarah Hamilton: Yeah, I know. No, I think, as I told you, I feel like I come to these things and I don't read the questions, so I answer them honestly. So, no, I'm not. All this work. I know, I know. Sorry.
Nathan Bush: I've got a question, then. When you were working at Spin magazine, did you meet anyone famous?
Sarah Hamilton: I did. So do you know. So my history. So in London, I worked for Dazed and Confused. Does anyone know that magazine? It's a really cool fashion magazine and actually one of my friends I was living at the time, I got offered a job that was paying much more. Or I got the Dazed and Confused, like their finance manager job. And my friend was like, I will pay you the difference in hourly rate if you take the day's job. So it was the best parties I've ever been to. So, like Liv Tyler, Kate Moss, like Everyone there and then. And that was more sophisticated. Whereas New York was a bit more like. Yeah, the Foo Fighters. Yeah, Phoenix. Like, I can't even say the names of the people that I met. And I had a. My first dog was a bulldog, and he'd come to work with me. So it meant that all the cool people came into my office. Cause I was the general manager. It's not as if they were like, hey, can we talk to Sarah? They're like, talking to the editors. But, yeah, so I went to every festival. I went to Coachella three times. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was amazing. And so then coming back to Australia, I'm a bit like, oh, do I have to line up to go to places?
Nathan Bush: Was anyone a real asshole?
Sarah Hamilton: No, everyone was really nice. I really like Americans because I feel like they're really chatty. I know that's just for you. No, I loved it. So I'm working right now with a New Yorker, and every time I talk to her, I'm like, the call goes for seven minutes. It's supposed to be 45. We get all this stuff done. And I always go, yeah, man, I love you. So, no, they were actually. Everyone was really nice. And when they came into the office. Cause they'd perform and we had a rooftop, and they were just. They were excited to be there and excited to get the coverage. So we didn't meet anyone.
Nathan Bush: Mean, not the answer I wanted, but
Sarah Hamilton: it's nice to hear the one person I did want to meet with. Does anyone remember Felicity? The show, Scott Speedman. So he was my. Like, oh, my God, I need to meet him. And so the President brought him up at one point and I was like, I can't speak. I was 30. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, that was probably my crush, that I was like, oh, my gosh, I literally cannot speak to you.
Nathan Bush: Love it.
Nathan Bush: All right, so what have the next 12 months got in store for you? I'm sure it's lots of things, but where's your focus?
Sarah Hamilton: So Strand is really busy at the moment. We're launching into the UK with a really big retailer that will then follow a bit of a global launch, which is amazing. Now, we've got two other brands, one in lip care and one in the supplement space, which is launching. So. Yeah. And one that I might be advising, that I can't admit right now, but
Nathan Bush: just a cruisy year.
Sarah Hamilton: Just an easy year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan Bush: Everyone, give it up for Sarah Hamilton. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us.
Nathan Bush: I thought it'd be Good for us to have a little bit of a wrap up on the event. We heard just then from Sarah who was amazing, but for people who weren't at the event and were like, well that sounded a bit interesting. Tell us, what is ipx?
[Voiceover]: Thanks for having me, Nathan. Yeah, Sarah is incredible. I was lucky enough to actually meet her in New York last year and hang out and she is one of the most humble down to earth people that I've met considering all her accomplishments. So ipx, great question. So we love an acronym. As you know, IPX stands for impact.com partnerships experience. So it's actually our annual conference that we organize that brings together all the different players within the partnerships ecosystem, so brands, agencies, publishers and our tech partners. It was born out of New York. We've been hosting it there for about six years. Obviously a little bit of a stint throughout Covid we had to make it virtual. Then we came back with a bang last year and now we've been hosting it in Sydney for two years.
Nathan Bush: Well, last year was the first one that I had attended and I was amazed at how many people were there because I think There were about 150 people in the room this year. Is that right?
[Voiceover]: Correct. So last year was actually 150 and this year we topped it with over 200 people. So it keeps growing every year.
Nathan Bush: It's amazing. What were your highlights from this year?
[Voiceover]: So my biggest highlight was not only the content and the speakers, but actually the venue. I think having two different levels where we could split the content and we could split the activations, where people could spend time engaging with our sponsors. How epic was that July luggage personalization station by the way? That was busy all day long. And finally the epic swag bags I loved unboxing on the stage, showcasing all the amazing gifts that we got from Frank Body to JS Health to Reebok. I think that is definitely going to be a swag bag that people will be talking about for years to come.
Nathan Bush: Oh yeah. I had to get on the plane early the next morning with just carry on luggage and then I had to make that decision of what do I leave behind out of the swag bag and what do I keep because I've only got one bag to go with me. It was awesome.
[Voiceover]: That's a hard decision.
Nathan Bush: And then tell me if you've already met Sarah and before our conversation at the event, was there anything extra that you got from Sarah this time?
[Voiceover]: I really loved her test and learn approach. So as a marketer myself, you know, there's so many different channels, there's so many different things that we could be doing and sometimes it can feel really overwhelming. And I love that she spoke about setting aside a small amount of budget and resource to test different things and then kind of seeing how those micro experiments worked and then rolling that out into a bigger campaign or a different channel. So I think that was super inspiring for me and something that I think we do quite well at Impact, but it's always good to hear that others do that too. Another thing that really resonated with me was her comments about authenticity. So obviously the discussion was very much around launching and building a brand and how do you make that a cult brand and the role of influencers. And I think so many of us are over those big celebrity endorsements. You follow your celebrities pushing different products every single day. I don't really believe that they ever use them, that they actually like them. So I really resonated with the fact that she loves to work with a few people who actually approach her as well that genuinely loves the product and she looks to establish those long term partnerships. So rather than just one off campaigns, she actually looks to build those relationships over time. And I think that authenticity is something that we can definitely take into our day to day job. So even though, you know, I'm in B2B marketing, we're still marketing to humans. So you know, taking, taking that approach.
Nathan Bush: I think I love that.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I love listening to that. Finally backing yourself. It's amazing to listen to other female leaders about how they've overcome some of those barriers. And I think for me sometimes that self belief can be a challenge. So I just love that she was like, just go for it. Even if you don't have the right experience sometimes if it feels right in your gut, not having some of the experience could actually, you could bring a different perspective or you could identify possible gaps and blind spots that other people might miss. So yeah, that was super inspiring for me.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. I hadn't met Sarah before and we did the pre call before the event, but met her in person on the day and I was amazed by her warmth, but also her confidence and that the two can go hand in hand. Like she got up and she told us everything, like didn't hold back everything from the GP that she looks for in products that she might be going to market with through to the percentage of sales she gets from Amazon.
Nathan Bush: Really open.
Nathan Bush: But I think that comes from that place of confidence, like you said, that you can actually be like, well this is what we do. I think we do it pretty well. We're okay to put it out there.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, no, love that. I'm definitely going to work on, work on that.
Nathan Bush: All right. I am sure that we're only a week after the event. I'm sure your brain is already buzzing on what IPX looks like next year. Are you going to give us any hints?
[Voiceover]: Oh, I'm definitely someone that always wants to go bigger and better every year. So I'm already thinking about fresh new content, ideas, a diverse set of speakers and there's actually a little idea that I'd love to bring to life. And this is is going to be the first time it's put out there in the world. But we have so many amazing fashion brands. How cool would it be if I could get some of those brands to actually dress the panelists I was thinking of there's another way that we can showcase some of our customers on stage and what better way to have the speakers wear some of the clothes. So that's something I'm going to be hitting up some of our customers for. So watch the space.
Nathan Bush: I look forward to seeing what Honeybadet can do for your panelists
[Voiceover]: that'll be at the after party.
Nathan Bush: Oh no, I love that idea.
Nathan Bush: That's very cool. And like, if we're talking partnerships, then that's a great way to demonstrate partnerships. And you and the team, they do such amazing job with the IPX event last year and this year backing it up.
Nathan Bush: So thank you for bringing it to
Nathan Bush: life and enjoy a well deserved bit
Nathan Bush: of rest time hopefully.
[Voiceover]: Thank you so much Nath and loved having you part of it. I hope we can make it a hat trick next year.
Nathan Bush: Oh, look out.
Nathan Bush: The challenge is there. Love it.
[Voiceover]: No pressure.
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