James Van Rooyen: That was really a key message for us, for customers to understand that, yeah, look, the quality of the bike is fantastic. This is how we're able to save you so much money. That is some great research and it is completely true. We've got a sponsored rider who's like, he's got millions of viewers. But I will say that I've got more views than him on TikTok at the moment, so check it out.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart. Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at e commerce talent agency eSweet. Today's guest is the biggest retailer of bot bikes in Australia, but they still have a logo that was designed to match the wall colors of their old business. Joining me today is James Van Rooyen, co founder at bikesonline or Bicycles Online as they've been known in Australia. Starting out as bike tour operators, James and his business partner Jono thought it might be a great idea to see if they can get bikes cheaper by buying them direct from the supplier. One container load of bikes and an ebay store later, Bikes Online was born. Today they sell bikes to both the Australian and US markets and have 100 staff spread across every continent in the world. In this chat, James shares how they've been able to create a direct to consumer advantage and maintain it with strong supplier relationships even as competition has increased. We also discuss James's tips for expanding into the US how to snap up bargain domain names. Great story in there and why one of his proudest moments was when one of his team members bought their own house. Make sure that if you are a bike head, you stick around until the end because James has given Add to Cart listeners a very generous $50 off any bike purchase at Bicycles Online. So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio, here's our conversation with James Van Rooyen, co founder of bikesonline. James, thanks for joining us on Add to Cart.
James Van Rooyen: Nathan, lovely to be here.
[Voiceover]: So good you're a late minute call up for your co founder, Jono.
James Van Rooyen: That's it. The super sub Jono couldn't make it. So happy to join?
[Voiceover]: No, it'll be great. All right, so I have to Ask. First up, doing my research, I'm coming across Bicycles Online and Bikes Online, both great brands. What are we talking today?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, so it's probably easiest just to refer to it as bikesonline. We started as Bicycles Online and then, you know, for a myriad of different reasons, mainly due to some cyber squatters, we weren't able to sort of have a consistent brand initially. And so we are actually transitioning across to the bikesonline brand for Australia as well now.
[Voiceover]: Okay, so one site internationally.
James Van Rooyen: That's right.
[Voiceover]: How did you go about getting that domain? Bikesonline.com, i can imagine that wouldn't have been easy to get off someone else's hands.
James Van Rooyen: You know, we were super lucky. We'd been pretty active over the last, over the last 10 years trying to find the right domain name and actually we picked it up for a thousand bucks. Yeah. So we were super lucky. Met a lovely guy and he was great. So, you know, getting that right domain name has been pretty tricky. We've sort of been. We had other guys that wanted percentages of the business to sell us a domain name. We're like, yeah, no. So, yeah, no, luckily we've got Bikes Online now and that's pretty strong domain name for us.
[Voiceover]: So it was just a one on one kind of reach out and arrangement. Wasn't done through like any formal kind
James Van Rooyen: of no broker broker, no official, anything like that. We reached out to someone who owned it and you can actually do that. It's pretty easy to do through the whole cup and that was the way we did it. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: That's amazing.
James Van Rooyen: Yeah. And a couple of cases of beer as well, so it worked out well.
[Voiceover]: Thousand bucks and a couple of cases of beer. I think you got a pretty good deal.
James Van Rooyen: I think so.
[Voiceover]: Now you've recently celebrated your 10th birthday. Congratulations.
James Van Rooyen: Thanks.
[Voiceover]: What's been your proudest milestone today?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, so I was in the US just a couple of weeks ago and it was the first time I'd been to the US really for two and a half years. We started the US three years ago and to go there and then suddenly see the whole team. We changed offices, we've got a big warehouse and to meet the team. It was really pretty special to be able to see how the team had been able to grow over this time without either Jono or I being. Being there. So, I mean, they probably did better than if we were to be there. But yeah, no, that was really special. You know, there's been a lot of great moments over the last 10 years. I think the Other one that I really liked as well was we had a, one of our early staff members, she actually purchased a house and both for Jonna and I, it was a pretty special moment because it's one thing to be successful, then it's a completely other thing to then be able to sort of empower your staff, enable them to be successful. So when she bought, bought her house, it was a real moment of pride. And look, the house is in Tasmania so I don't know if that counts but no, we're really happy for her and really happy that bike online can be this vehicle that people can live great lives through.
[Voiceover]: Do you ever work out so hard and so much that you just crash? Yeah, I really feel your pain. But what's worse than a post workout crash? A website crash, especially during Black Friday. This was the experience of the team at Muscle Nation before they re platformed over to Shopify Plus. Before Shopify plus their website would crash with 80 visitors. Fast forward to 2019 Black Friday on Shopify and they sold over 70,000 units in the first hour of Black Friday and sold $4 million worth of stock over the entire sales period. That's some serious flexing going on. To read more of Muscle Nation story and to see other case studies, visit the customer section on shopify.com au/. I know that you call your team gearheads, so have you got it set up as a remote workplace especially so people can live that passion of biking?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, so look, we have a pretty flexible working environment. So we have a team in Australia, we have a team in the US and we also have a team in the Philippines. And actually the Philippines is pretty close to my heart. You know, we actually work with a, with members of a mountain biking community in the Philippines. And so it's quite interesting because, you know, I think sometimes offshore call centers and that sort of thing can get a bad, bad reputation. But it's quite funny because our customers will ask a pretty technical question and you know, our staff will be up. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with that derailer being a 12 speed and you need to adjust the jockey wheel. You know, they know their stuff. So yeah, look, we've got a pretty spread out team. We've got about 100 staff across actually all continents now.
[Voiceover]: Wow, that's amazing. How do you test whether your team are actually passionate about bikes before you bring them into the business?
James Van Rooyen: I don't know if it's so much a test as a desire from their side. Like the bike industry is definitely one that's A. It's a passion industry and it certainly helped us attract great talent as well. So there is definitely a lifestyle component to it. And yeah, there's no, there's no tricks or anything about whether they're interested in bikes or not. People are just generally pretty keen to keep involved in that passion.
[Voiceover]: Pretty special when you can bring your passion and your job together.
James Van Rooyen: That's it. Definitely.
[Voiceover]: Was it hard during COVID Obviously you've had this great expansion into the States and for yourself and Jono to be stuck here in Australia. How did that feel, feel while all that growth was happening in the us?
James Van Rooyen: It's hard. I think setting up overseas in a regular environment is difficult, let alone during COVID And there's challenges. People are working from home, there's huge supply chain challenges, there's huge growth in demand as well. So you're really being pulled in a whole bunch of different ways. And so I think to be able to come. To come out of it the way that we have is something I'm really proud of.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Great. And did the US experience a similar trend in terms of demand for bikes during that Covid period?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, look. What's happened in the bike industry has been a global phenomenon. So we were basically just in a perfect storm in a way, where there was a huge increase in demand. So people wanted to get out, people wanted to. No one wanted to catch a bus. Right. So everyone was riding and then recreationally, that was really popular as well. And then on the. On the other side was. Online was super popular. So retail stores were closed. We were already the biggest in Australia. And so we definitely noticed that increase. And then there was a supply shortage. And so when you sort of combine all those things together and the fact that we had good supply, it was a good time for us, for sure.
[Voiceover]: And was the good supply a result of all the work that you did before COVID or was it being able to work with your suppliers during COVID
James Van Rooyen: You know, it's something that we have really been focused on since Day Dot. And so we're very closely aligned with one of the biggest factories based out of Indonesia. And that's one of the main brand that we carry called Polygon. And they've been really instrumental in helping us firm up our supply chain and work with us through this, through this growth period. But all those building blocks were in place prior to Covid and I think a lot of people were trying to get into the industry after that, but really the only way to take advantage of it was you had to have everything in place.
[Voiceover]: You mentioned that relationship with Polygon. Do you have any advice for people who working with suppliers and looking to enhance that relationship to keep that supply chain steady and predictable? Any advice for other retailers, whether in the bike industry or not?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, look, I see that supply relationship is critical. So for us, Polygon's been huge. And we've really both shared in this growth experience. We've helped them a lot in terms of their marketing, their product development. We work really closely in hand with them, and so it's definitely mutually beneficial. And the move into the US was very much a partnership as well. On the reverse side, they've been able to give us huge benefits in terms of not just supply, but things like terms of trade. And so having a trusted partner like that really makes life a lot easier.
[Voiceover]: And that relationship, did that come about organically? Was it something was spoken about over years or was it perfect timing that you were both looking for the same thing at the same time?
James Van Rooyen: It's like a relationship, and good relationships take a long time to build. And that trust, it's a very traditional relationship in terms of so much is built on that handshake agreement on that, and really on that belief that you really have the other person's best or other companies best interests at heart. And we really do. So it's been really a great part of the growth story.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, brilliant. Speaking of the growth story, do you mind if we go back to the start? Because if people aren't familiar with the bikes online story, it's really fascinating because you and Jono actually started out as bike tour operators before you were retailers. Can you tell us about why you went from the tour world into the retail world?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, sure. So, you know, we sort of started this bike rental bike tour business about 15 years ago now, and it was a nice little business. And every year we would replace the fleet of bikes. And we just thought, these bikes seem super expensive. And we thought, why don't we go buy, See if we can buy them direct from the factory. And we actually approached a bunch of different factories, one of which was Polygon. And when we noticed just how reasonable and how much better value you could get out of buying direct, we very quickly realized that it's not just us that can benefit from the better value. Actually, everyone could. And so this is about the same time that Kogan was setting up. And so we set up an ebay store. We sold through the first container of bikes in four weeks, and that was the start of it.
[Voiceover]: How did you feel? I imagine you would have Been nervous bringing a whole container of bikes into Australia for the first time.
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, it was. And look, both Jono and I are fairly conservative. And what we realized is that if they didn't work out, we would put the bikes into the fleet of the rental business. And so we always had that. We try to always have some sort of backup plan just in case things didn't work out. But we very quickly ordered more containers, for sure.
[Voiceover]: Makes sense. And how long did you stick around on ebay for?
James Van Rooyen: We stuck around on ebay for years. So it became a really important part, especially with lead generation these days. It's changed for us now we're much more focused on the entire customer journey. And I mean, ebay I think is brilliant business. We still do a little bit of business on the parts and accessory side, but really you want to take a customer and our riders through a journey that's really managed well for that educated, considered purchase, which is a bicycle.
[Voiceover]: And you obviously knew bikes and you knew riders pretty well from your time doing the tours and the guides. If you can cast your mind back to those early days of selling bikes online, what were the hardest things for you to get your head around in shifting bikes online?
James Van Rooyen: I think that the hardest challenges at the beginning for us were actually ones that still exist today. And bikes are just not a category of product that people are traditionally used to buying online. And so we really had to convince customers it was okay to buy online. And, and so that's been really a big challenge for us for a long time. And I think that's what's changed recently is the understanding that it's not so much that we can have an equivalent experience to an in store buying experience. You can actually have a better experience online. And there are so many things that you can do and you need to do if you are going to be buying an expensive bike. You want to do your research, you want to have the options, and there's a lot of things that you can do online to be able to de risk. Well, at least that perceived risk, reduce that perceived risk for the customer. And so, yeah, I feel we're getting, getting better and better at it. But yeah, it's a constant challenge for us.
[Voiceover]: Do you remember any of the improvements that you did online that really kind of broke a barrier in de risking the purchase for a customer?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we realized we needed a very flexible returns policy, which is what we still have now. And so we want customers to be happy with the bike that they've got. If they're not happy, then it's no good for us. And so what it does is it doesn't just de risk it for the customer knowing that they can return the bike. What it does as well is it keeps us on our toes. And customers know that because whilst it might be a bit annoying for a customer to get a bike delivered and then we pick it up and then they. That might be a bit annoying, but it's very expensive for us. And so we constantly look to improve the whole experience so that customers really are delighted with the product. Yeah.
[Voiceover]: How do you use that data and the feedback that you get from returns or customer feedback post purchase, do you pass that on to the wider team, even into your supply chain as well?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, that's I think, the key to business and you need to continually improve and improve that process. And that's what we focus on. And we actually have heads of departments are very closely aligned with the customer and those stages of the customer journey to make sure that we are constantly improving and they understand what those pain points are for the customer.
[Voiceover]: What's fascinating about your site and if anyone logs on, you can see it, is that you are so clear and precise around your messaging around that you deliver direct to consumer pricing. And I haven't actually seen it put that way before. Obviously we as E commerce nerds know direct to consumer language, but I've never seen it put in customer terms before. Do you think customers understand the benefit? Obviously they do if you've got it up there of direct to consumer pricing and it has it become harder to maintain that, you know, 20 to 40% cheaper price with more competitors online.
James Van Rooyen: So to your first question, do customers, let's say, care? Some do and some don't. So really price is a big factor. You know, it's the one thing that the customers have to give up to get the product or service. And so when they still see that we provide great value, they are like, fantastic. Some people don't question it, other people will question the credibility of the product. And that was very true in the early days. So Polygon, just as a quick back story, Polygon produced bikes for all the major brands. They're a huge producer and so the bikes are the exact same quality as what you get out of a traditional retailer. And so that was really a key message for us for customers to understand that, yeah, look, the quality of the bike is fantastic. This is how we're able to save you so much money. It's not because we're trying to de spec the bike or anything like that the product quality is there, it's the business model that's able to give you that value.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And that would have been a pretty new business model at the time that you launched it.
James Van Rooyen: Oh, for sure, for sure. And specifically in our industry, very new. So we were essentially one of the first to do it. And even today there's not a lot of people doing it. It's a lot harder to do it these days. And if you're an existing bicycle brand that's sold through stores, it's very difficult to then be able to convert to online because you still have these overheads of retail stores and additional staffing and all those other things that go with it. And to your point is, are we still able to provide those cost savings? And we certainly are because those brands still have those additional overheads. And so we're able to cut out the middleman. And no one likes the middleman. Right.
[Voiceover]: So yeah, he's not a popular guy.
James Van Rooyen: He's not.
[Voiceover]: You've refreshed your website. The new range is about to drop. You've never had more customer service options. Hey, but take a look over there. That boring pile of packaging boxes. Ugh, ugly. Time to give that some love. Luckily, Paclio is here to bring some joy to your customers. Delivery and unboxing experience. It's been ignored for way too long. With vibrant colors, cool designs and eco friendly credentials, there are no more excuses for boring boxes. Even better, Paclio is Australian owned and operated with same day dispatch and 14 day returns. There's nothing boring about that. Check out the Paclio range of E commerce packaging options at Paclio. That's Paclio. P A C K l e o paclio.com. Do you find that there's a lot of loyalty in the biking world in terms of people being loyal to bike brands or bike retailers?
James Van Rooyen: I would say that compared to other product categories, what makes the bike industry different is that a bike is made up of a whole lot of components similar to a laptop. So when you look at a typical bike brand, they make the frame, but they don't make the wheels, they don't make the brakes, they don't make the gears, they don't make the saddle. So all of those are assembled by that bike brand and so there is probably less brand recognition in the bike industry as opposed to the components. So similar to a laptop, for example. Right. So a laptop you recognize. Oh wow. It's got intel, you know, it's got Nvidia or it's got, you know, these sorts of things. And what sort of speaker system does it have? The actual name on the laptop is not as important. Of course it does have. It does have some importance, but that is perhaps the difference compared to a regular product.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And as a generalization, my perception of real bike enthusiasts is that there is a real attention to detail and wanting to know every little bit of detail. It's almost like this engineer mindset of being able to put it together. Is that a curse or a positive for you?
James Van Rooyen: Look, I always think that's benefit. I think educated customers is fantastic. It's also not the entire market. You know, we sell kids bikes, you know, we sell commuter bikes. We really sell that entire range. And perhaps at that sort of mid range, customers don't quite have that same desire to know all those details. They want to know they're getting great value. They want to know they can have a great time on the weekend. And I think that's really where we fit in. There is a real high end enthusiast market in the bike industry and actually that's less about value, it's more about brand perception and. And that sort of thing.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Now can we go to the branding? Because I want to verify a story that I read when I was doing my research. I read an article which says that you came up with the bicycles online at that point, the bicycles online branding and the color scheme to match the fit out that you had in the old rental business so you didn't have to change the fit out.
James Van Rooyen: Is that true? That is some great research and that is completely true. So the original business, if anyone wants to look it up, is called Manly Bike Tours. And you know, it basically had the same blue and white and so we save on paint essentially, we retain the same, the same color. So yeah, still seems to work for us.
[Voiceover]: That's great. I love it.
James Van Rooyen: Good research.
[Voiceover]: That is true. A retail mindset right there.
James Van Rooyen: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And now, so going forward, obviously we talked about having the dual sites coming together under the one URL and one brand in the future. Future. From your expansion into the U.S. one thing I did notice on the U.S. is that there's big photo of you and Jono, you know, with an American flag behind you, you know, very proudly. Here we are. What have you noticed around the differences that you've had to take into the States around your messaging and brand identity?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, sure. So I don't know if this. There's been a big rainstorm just come through. So for if the feedback's too much, no problem.
[Voiceover]: We're all good. At least it's Not a good, good time to go cycling.
James Van Rooyen: That's it. Right. Good time to talk to you. So you know, to your question about the U.S. the U.S. has been a fantastic journey for us and in terms of what the differences, there's some that you would expect and there's some that you just simply, you know, left us dumbstruck. So first one you mentioned it, right, Incredibly patriotic. So their flags are everywhere, the flags outside of our office as well. And so that's an important point. The differences between Australia and the U.S. however, go a lot deeper. Australia is very much winner take all market. It's a small market. You need to be highly efficient, you need to be very competitive. That's how the Australian market is certainly in the bike industry.
[Voiceover]: Is that just due to size of the Australian market?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, you know, the Australian market is a good market in the bike industry, but it also has more than 350 brands servicing 25 million people. And you know, we just don't have that many people. So not just customers but also employees. And so you have to be very efficient. That dynamic doesn't exist in the U.S. it is not a winner take all market. It is such a big market that it's made up of lots of different markets. And so one of our biggest competitors really just operates in Florida. And a lot of people actually said to us when we're going to the U.S. look, just pick one state. Look at that. Even online, just pick one state. But we're probably a little bit over ambitious and we're like no, we're going to do the whole thing. Look, it's worked out well for us for sure. And the efficiencies that we've gained in Australia certainly have applied in the U.S. you know, we sort of joke and we say that people ride bikes in Australia the same way they ride them in the U.S. so you know, the business model that works here also works well in the US. Some of the other things we just weren't expecting, you know, in the US the freight side of things, shipping, you would expect they would have that down pat. We actually find it's actually much more expensive shipping in the U.S. yeah. Whereas yeah, Australia doesn't have that. Australia has a higher concentration amongst the capital cities, but the US is so spread out. So that's one of the challenges.
[Voiceover]: Do you have your own warehouses or use a three PL in the U.S. we have both.
James Van Rooyen: We have our own warehouse and three PL warehouses.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Okay. And why do you think it's more expensive? Because it is a. You're Spot on. It's a preconception that a lot of people have that fulfillment will be a lot easier and cheaper in the us.
James Van Rooyen: The reason we've noticed is the big players have such a monopoly over the distribution Networks. There's really FedEx, DMT, DHL and those guys have such huge demand online and shipping is under such huge pressure at the moment. So that's how they're able to increase their prices. I think that simply they make more money.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. And it's been fascinating to watch obviously from an external perspective. We've seen lots of news around those shipping providers increasing their pricing and reducing their thresholds of what they'll carry.
James Van Rooyen: That's it. And bikes aren't that easy. It's not their highest first choice.
[Voiceover]: One of the things that we often get when I ask the question of founders and leaders in E commerce here in Australia is what's next for your business? A lot of them are saying our next step is the US and it seems like the next logical step. What advice would you have for founders who are at that stage of. I've done pretty well in Australia. We've got this set up, we're comfortable with the processes, we've got a good market here. For us to grow, we really need to hit the us. What advice would you have for them based on what you've been through?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, I mean, I think the shorter answer is to do it, you know, simply do it. That idea of the, you know, sort of the land of opportunity is so true. You know, in our industry it's 10 times bigger and it is a lot easier to sell 10 bikes in the US for everyone in Australia, you know. And so in other industries, you know, it's 17 times bigger in terms of population size. So I'd really recommend people, people get over and do it. It's purely that market size. That's where it is.
[Voiceover]: That sounds a lot like we had Rob from Quad Lock on a couple of weeks ago and his advice mirrored yours as well as like, just try it, get over there, get started, don't pre plan it too much, just get on.
James Van Rooyen: That's it.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. Now I want to go back to the websites because we talked a little bit about bringing them together. You're on the Neato platform and obviously Australian born and bred here in Brisbane platform that's grown over time, but recently got acquired by Maropost. Have you seen any significant changes, positive or negative, with what you're getting out of Nito recently?
James Van Rooyen: Yeah. So Nito since changed to Maro post Ecommerce cloud and it's been a great shift for us. So, you know, there's been a couple of different owners of Neto the last few years, but Nito has been great. This, the acquisition by Maripos has been great because it's now enabled them and us to have this North American focus. So they're based out of Canada, sort of trying to push NATO from Australia to the us From Australia is so much more difficult and so having that additional resourcing and funding is fantastic. And you know, Maripost is a great system because it's really a tier one ERP system. So for those who aren't familiar, basically everything is integrated into the one system. So some of the other cloud based e commerce systems, you have a lot of plugins, a lot of APIs being pushed and pulled and it makes it more difficult. So for us as a mid sized business, it's good to have all that integrated into the one system and we've been able to roll that out into the us. So it's basically a stamp hit and repeat, basically.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. Brilliant. Now, I can't let you go without asking you yourself, what's your bike of choice and what do you ride?
James Van Rooyen: Well, I. Rather well, no, not embarrassingly, but at the moment I've got an E bike and it's a prototype E bike. So, you know, E bikes are certainly the way of the future, but this isn't, you know, super fancy. It's one that, it's more for the everyday person and want to make sure it rides well.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, great stuff. All right, James, you've given us a little bit of insight into what's coming, but we might get more out of you here. What's next for yourself and bikes online?
James Van Rooyen: Look, bikes online has, and online in general, I think has been focused around value. You know, that's probably been a really important point, but it's changing now and Covid's sort of given us that big leap ahead and it's now much more about customer experience. And so it's the convenience, the service, the all those additional things that you can do online that you simply can't do out of a store. And I think that yes, you need to have value, that's important, but now it's much more about customer experience.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and obviously lighting the way and showing Australian retailers how to expand internationally as well, which is great to see. James, people have heard this and want to get in touch. What's the best way for them to find out more about bikes online?
James Van Rooyen: I mean certainly through the website, that's best part. But look, we're, we're on all socials as well, even TikTok. So yeah, you get on there yourself,
[Voiceover]: create any videos yet.
James Van Rooyen: Yeah, we, I have, I have. I would actually say we. We've got a sponsored writer who's like, he's got millions of viewers but I will say that I've got more views than him on TikTok at the moment. So. So check it out.
[Voiceover]: The original influencer.
James Van Rooyen: That's it, that's it, that's it. I'll do some dances soon.
[Voiceover]: Great stuff, James. Thank you for joining us on that.
James Van Rooyen: Add to cart maybe great to be.
[Voiceover]: Now, as promised, James and the Bikes Online crew have given Add to Cart listeners a very generous $50 off any bike. To claim your discount, head ON over to bicyclesonline.com that's bicyclesonline.com and add the code Add to car cart. All one word add to cart and your $50 discount will be applied. Maybe even check out those electric bikes that James was talking about. Alright, here are the three biggest takeaways that I had from our chat with James. Number one, Creating value exchange with suppliers. The Bikes online model is based off the direct to consumer offer, which means they need to develop and maintain relationships with suppliers. It was, it was interesting to hear James talk through this because it didn't come off as a commercial relationship but more of a mutual value exchange. Bikes online help with marketing and product development. Their suppliers help with new market development and innovation. This is obviously a really deep relationship that goes beyond transactions. Number two, being better through flexible returns. James talked about building trust for online customers potential, particularly with how hard it is to buy bikes online. One of the ways they've created this trust is through a flexible returns policy that obviously de risks the purchase for the consumer. But more than that, it encourages the Bikes Online team to be better. Because a return is the worst and most expensive result for both the customer and the business sake. Everyone wants to avoid those returns. It's a great motivator. What customer policies could you put in place to push you and really make you better? And the third one I've called this you'll never know your luck. As in URL will never know your luck. Get it? I love the story of how James and the team acquired their prized domain name with $1,000 and a couple of cases of beer. These kind of domains that James has got are typically in the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. So is it worth a sneaky reach out to some of your ideal domain owners via whois to see if there's ever any interest. You never know. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and visit us at E Suite. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
