Making the Bed Beautiful: The Sheet Society Story

Hayley Worley: The other day, Hayley came home and was like, I'm quitting my job.

Andy Worley: Yeah. And he's like, don't quit your job. Nah, don't. You can't afford it. And I was like, all right, I won't. And then I came and I was like, I've got news. I quit my job. He's like, what?

Hayley Worley: I think we were about 100k in debt at that point. Personally, it was, what else we got? Okay, there's probably 20k sitting in your car. Their house, that's gotta go.

Andy Worley: We've made a rule. No business in bed, even, like, if you're falling asleep. And Eddie's like, oh, but what about. I'm like, no.

[Voiceover]: Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nathan Bush from E Suite and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game. And of course, keep your customers adding to cart.

Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart.

[Ad]: My name is Nathan Bush, host of

Nathan Bush: Add to Cart and director at E commerce most talent agency E Suite. Today we're getting into bed with Hayley and Andy Warley from the Sheet Society. See what I did there?

Nathan Bush: It's not even funny.

Nathan Bush: It's probably even bordering on creepy. Anyway, Hayley and Andy started the Sheet Society because they wanted to make the worst job in the world putting sheets back on the bed easier, and they wanted to bring beautiful design into the bedroom. They started four years ago with a 20k investment, shooting web content on their iPhones and they even sold a car to pay for stock. They're now generating over $15 million worth of sales every year. They have a retail store, a team of 50, and operate out of a 3 1/2 thousand square meter warehouse in Melbourne. Stay tuned right until the end where we get a very special Add to Cart exclusive on a big move for the Sheet Society. So thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Signet, here's our conversation with Hayley and Andy Worley from the Sheet Society.

Nathan Bush: Andy and Hayley Worley, welcome to ADD to cart.

Andy Worley: Thank you.

Nathan Bush: Good, good. We've been trying to line this up for so long that things like just having kids gets in the way of it. How's it all going for you guys?

Andy Worley: Yeah, I think we were really in the thick of it when you first said, come on, and we were like, oh, I don'. Not the best people at the moment, but yeah. Miller's now nearly six months and we've got Jake, who's two and a bit. So, yeah, we're through the thick of it now.

Hayley Worley: We have to find time for us to be, like, in the same place with quiet. So it's taken a good few months.

Nathan Bush: Insane couple of days in daycare now

Hayley Worley: so we can get some time together.

Nathan Bush: Brilliant. So we're here to talk about your other baby, the Sheep Society. For anyone who hasn't come across the Sheet Society, can you give people an idea of what Sheet Society is?

Andy Worley: Yeah, well, that's probably a me question. Which made the idea of shopping for sheets fun. You know, I had a really shit experience in a department store buying a set of sheets and, you know where they were wrapped in this little plastic brick of a block and I thought I was buying quite a conservative color, but when I got home, it had this, like neon orange piping around it and I was so disappointed and I'd unfolded it and that. I'm just past the point of being able to return it. And I just thought, why is the experience of shopping for sheets so different to the experience of shopping for clothes? Like, when you buy a new outfit, you take it into the change room, you take off all your clothes and you try on something that you haven't paid for yet. I just couldn't understand why those two experiences were so different. And, yeah, set out to build the business of making sheets.

Nathan Bush: Brilliant. And from what I understand, you started with a 20k investment and grew this. This beast into $15 million. Sounds easy, right?

Hayley Worley: Yeah, absolutely. 20k. Gosh, that was a while ago. That was kind of just the start of it. Hey.

Andy Worley: Yeah. It was 20k of, like, startup money. And then I remember having to call Mum before their first shipment arrived because I hadn't factored in, like, the import charges before I'd even launched, I was already asking for favors. Yeah. It's a bit of a myth, isn't it? People say, like, startup money and I feel like we needed a lot money just to keep going. No one says keep going capital.

Nathan Bush: No, exactly. And what was the hardest part about going from this idea of unwrapping the sheets that were shit and then bring it to reality.

Hayley Worley: Gosh. Do you reckon, day one, when we launched the website and then we googled ourselves and couldn't find it and wondered how it all worked.

Andy Worley: Yeah. We'd had the Instagram and all my friends, I was like, go on. But the sheets starting buy our sheets. And then everyone was googling the sheets and, like, Flicking through, like, got to page 6, page 7, page 12, and they were like music sheets. There was Google sheets, all of these things. And we're like, hang on, we've got a website. Why can't Google find it? Like, how come no one can find us? So we had absolutely no idea.

Hayley Worley: So, yeah, just starting from scratch, learning every bit about how this all works. I mean, Hayley, expert product developer, I'd say. And then it came to the marketing and E Comm side and we were very fresh.

Andy Worley: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: So it leads to the question of how do you. How do you make sheets exciting?

Andy Worley: Yeah. And then there's so many things that you can improve about the product. And I think, like, changing the bed is like, the shittest household activity. The worst.

Nathan Bush: Yeah.

Andy Worley: And the worst is when you've stripped your sheets and you've washed them, it's Sunday and they're still not dry and you're like, do I sleep on this bed without any sheets?

Nathan Bush: The worst is when you go to bed on a Sunday night, it's like 10 o', clock, and you get there and you go, oh, I didn't finish that job. The worst feeling in the world.

Andy Worley: And so when you're doing that, you know, if you've got, like those pesky little buttons, when you're changing a quilt cover, that's annoying. So we've swapped it over for a zipper. You know, the fitted sheet elastic, if that's. You know, I've had ones before, they go all crunchy and they're not stretchy enough. So we fix that with our signature ribbed elastic or made them extra deep. So you're not really, like, having a workout, just changing the bed and then the colors and textures as well. A big believer in colour really being used to translate your personal style. And it can really say a lot about yourself. And you wear a new outfit to express your personal style, and yet, you know, you're sleeping in these sheets that are either plain white or hand me downs or race cars on them still. And, you know, why isn't your bed an expression of your own personal style?

Nathan Bush: I get so many weird looks with my race car sheets.

Andy Worley: How many people have you got in your bedroom?

Nathan Bush: It's another podcast in itself.

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Nathan Bush: When you are creating these features of sheets and you go and you're designing this to kind of take sheets to the next level, how do you communicate that to a brand new audience to go, hey guys, we're not just another sheet company, we're doing things differently.

Andy Worley: It's through all of the different things. And I think by having a product that has so many unique selling points and features and benefits, by having a really good marketing funnel that speaks to a lot of those points. You know, we might hit them with like a styling inspiration video and then we might talk about our invisible zipper, our free express shipping or all of these little points. One of them is bound to resonate with you.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. And did you say three years ago? Is it? When did we start?

Andy Worley: February 2017.

Nathan Bush: So right in the middle of like the Instagram boom for E commerce. Is that fair?

Andy Worley: Look, it was right after, I reckon, yeah. And it was probably like a good year or so after that. So we knew from the get go that we weren't going to be able to generate the type of following that we could organically. And we hadn't done those tactics about creating a blog and then selling something afterwards. We were late to the game in that. But it's been a bit of a blessing because, you know, we realized early on that our time and money was better spent just paying for the correct targeting and actually using digital marketing the way it's intended. And it's actually a great tool if you're willing to actualize that cost in your first margin. And that was a really turning point for us, I feel. We factor in our first margin of cost of goods and cost to sell those goods on digital channels and paying for that has really changed the game

Nathan Bush: work to a specific ROI target.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, we do. Well, it used to be two and then it was three and then it was four. You know, just steadily working away. And we're trying to stick to running about a 10 at the moment in ROAS.

Nathan Bush: That's a high target.

Hayley Worley: It is a high target.

Andy Worley: Yeah. And a lot goes into that. Like, you know, we have a quite a high repeat customer rate. So if you factor in that in terms of the whole digital landscape, you know, maybe we just need to send you another hey, this is new ad and then that's enough for you to check out. You don't have to go through the whole funnel again.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, I read that you have a returning customer rate of around 30%. And correct me if I've got any of this information ring, because I often do, but I read there was about 30%. And I can imagine that sheets isn't something that's always on people's mind or a frequent purchase. Do you have any other tactics to bring people back in for that second, third, fourth purchase?

Hayley Worley: You'd be surprised. Bushy. I reckon that's maybe you don't buy sheets.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, I reckon that's probably it.

Hayley Worley: There's definitely a couple of distinct questions groups in there. There's the people that you know that you just buy a pillowcase to test it out and then you go, right, this is amazing, I'll go and get the whole set. Or then the people that get the set and they have the best live of their lives and they love it. And now they can't sleep on any of their other sheets. So they got instantly replaced, the entire linen covered. And then yet there's people more like you that maybe six, seven, eight months need a new set.

Nathan Bush: Look, people like me is that my wife orders the sheets and then they just appear and I've got no idea how frequent they are or where they come from. Of course they come from the sheet society, but yeah, I just don't play a part. Now, Hayley, I saw a quote from you that says that you're building a brand, not just a product. We've talked a little bit about the product. What did you mean by building a brand, not just a product?

Andy Worley: Look, I think if you think about the product, it essentially is like a lifeless piece of fabric.

Nathan Bush: There's your next marketing campaign.

Andy Worley: I mean, we've had jokes with our videographers before and we're like, you know, breathe some life into this inanimate object that just sits on a bed. And so it really does need the brand to bring that to life and to help tell that story. So that's exactly why we can't just sell you a sheet for a sheet's sake. It's why we sell you a sheet that reflects your own personal style and a sheet that performs better than anything else. And a sheet that it's got free shipping and all these five star reviews. And yeah, everything that makes up a brand is all of those other components, you know, right down from the product and obviously the labeling and everything we stand for as a brand. Right. To like our warehouse and the way we interact with each other as employees. So everything to me falls under that heading of brand.

Hayley Worley: And then they should speak for themselves. I'd say once you get them and you get tucked up in bed.

Nathan Bush: Yeah. And in terms of building a brand and all those elements that you encompass, which is great because a lot of people think of brand, you go, I've got logos, I've got colors, we're sweet, we're good to go. But it does encompass, you know, a much wider range of things. What's been the hardest element to get right or where you put the most effort into?

Hayley Worley: I think we put effort different areas at different times, depending on where it needs it, so that we can incrementally bring up all areas of the business. I mentioned we focus on every touch point. I mean, very early on it was developing the product, then it was developing a really efficient marketing strategy. And then we had some really big growth and we had to really level up the back end operations and the systems and tech stack and implement things like WMS systems so that we could keep matching the experience that we're presenting with what the reality was of the business as well, and then keep leveling up customer service and give them more tools and freedoms to make everybody happy. Really?

Andy Worley: Yeah. See, it's not one thing. It's just one thing at a time.

Nathan Bush: And as founders who started this business and now have a big and growing team, how do you keep the essence of what you want the brand to be throughout all those teams?

Andy Worley: Yeah, that's something we're really struggling with at the moment. We've grown our team really quickly. Like we were maybe five or eight people this time last year, and we've got about 45, 50 on payroll, 50 on payroll now. So that's our new challenge. You know, how do we still keep connected to our team as founders and how do we clearly articulate the vision so that everyone is clear on what they show up to do every day? So we're trying that at the moment. I can't give you a definitive answer.

Hayley Worley: Yeah.

Andy Worley: Defining the mission and the vision and the values. And we really see people as the missing the last kind of little.

Hayley Worley: It was very easy, you know, and it was just me and you around that kitchen table. You know, we got it. We spent a bit of time in a couple of workshops really getting it out of our heads, like what the why is, what the reason for this all is, and what the values and what culture we want to create. And we recently kind of published that out to the team. In our own way. And we're starting to kind of work that through into the ways of working, which is super nice. Yeah.

Nathan Bush: And you got that feeling. Andy, you gave me a quick tour of the head office when I was in Melbourne, and as soon as you walk in those doors, it felt like you're in someone's house. Even though it was an office attached to a warehouse, it felt homely and nice and safe. I don't know. It was obviously intentional, but is there any tricks to kind of developing an office feel like that?

Hayley Worley: Oh, Hayley's definitely the interior stylist. You should have seen the building beforehand, though.

Andy Worley: Yeah, it was awesome.

Hayley Worley: It's come a very long way.

Andy Worley: But, yeah, you're not the first person to say that. And I don't know how he quantified that, if I'm honest, but it is just the vibe and the energy that people bring into the office. Yeah. We take a lot of pride in the space that we work out of, and that's reflective on the work that we do in this space.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, it's cumulative. Of all the little things that we think about, because we're just working so hard to create an environment where everybody enjoys coming to and has a great culture so people can have fun and do their best work.

Andy Worley: And selfishly, too, because we want to come to a great place that has a great culture.

Nathan Bush: Oh, absolutely. People ask that even what we're creating at E Suite, it's like, how do you create a culture? It's like, as long as I just keep creating a place where I want to turn up to work every day, I think we'll be all right.

Hayley Worley: I fill it with the people you love, too.

Nathan Bush: Yeah. Now, Andy, you mentioned tech before, and I could imagine that there's been huge changes in that amount of growth over the last three, four years. What's been the piece of tech which has really helped scale the business from your point of view?

Hayley Worley: There's a couple. I'd say one of the biggest kind of step changes was, and your sponsors will like this moving from Shopify kind of regular up to plus, because that really opened up up that custom dev work that we could really get stuck into actually executing the vision in the online experience rather than simple product grids and things. So that really opened up how we structure our products so people could mix and match through the bed builder tool and things like that, and then open up the possibility of augmented reality that we've been working on. So that would be one of the biggest ones then for the scale upside Implementing the WMS when we first moved over to the Brunswick warehouse was a big challenge.

Nathan Bush: So for anyone who hasn't got to the scale of needing a WMS yet, can you give our listeners a little bit of an overview on how that impacts your business?

Hayley Worley: Yeah. So that's a warehouse management system and that allows us to really automate our pick pack and ship processes and label printing. I mean, before we had that system, we were printing out a pick slip for each order, running around manually, remembering where everything was, just getting one of these, one of those, one of these and bringing it all back and then trying to find where that label was that went with that slip and that order. And there was just so much room for human error. I mean, it was fine when we were doing like 20 orders a day, you could, you could manage it. But then when you know it was upwards of a thousand and more, it just.

Nathan Bush: And you don't have a small warehouse.

Hayley Worley: Well, we did, we did. It was 200 square meters, but now it's, it's three and a half thousand. So there's just, there's just no way you could run it in the same or nor would you want to. So now everything, you know, everything's barcoded, everything scans. Pickers just, you know, they don't need to remember where everything is. They just get guided by handheld Android devices that go, go here, get one of these, put it here, and then as they do a complete loop of the warehouse, they come back with all the orders completely picked and then the labels just print out and then they go off to packers.

Nathan Bush: Beauty. And this isn't a high tech innovation, but when you were showing me around the warehouse, one of the things that caught my eye was the custom boxes that you've created with your partners. And I don't know how to explain it. Can you explain it for me? Because I was like, that just makes so much sense. But I've never seen it before.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, it's a. So the shippers that come with the product in, when we were picking, we used to have to take the box off the shelf, open the box up, dive in, grab the item, put the box back. So we managed to get the suppliers to put like a custom perforation pattern directly on the front of the box so that when it got into the warehouse you could just punch a hole through it and rip the front off and create the pick face. So you save yourself about three steps in the picking process. I was kind of inspired from like supermarkets. I used to work in grocery. And working with Coles. So they need shelf ready packaging that's efficient and, you know, it all comes perforated and ready to rip off and put on the shelf.

Nathan Bush: So because they're built perfectly for your shelves that are on a bit of an angle and, you know, at the right height and all that sort of stuff, it's really nice design.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, we've thought of everything. You know, on the heights in that warehouse, you know, people used to be climbing shelves and, you know, in a

Nathan Bush: safe whs way, of course.

Hayley Worley: Yeah. More so now, you know, there's no peaking below knee height, no peaking above shoulder height. No need for ladders. Yes. My much, much nicer environment to be in.

Nathan Bush: What's been the biggest lesson, I suppose, in that growth? Like, because we've talked about so much stuff from technology to culture to workplace, what's been. Has it been an aha moment where you went, oh, that makes sense.

Hayley Worley: Probably.

Nathan Bush: It's a broad question.

Andy Worley: Yeah.

Hayley Worley: I'd say the importance of culture. I know we've kind of touched on it, but, you know, Hayley and I really get our energy from working really hard. Like 2020, pretty much head down, just going as fast as we can, trying to keep up. You know, we had a big realization that not all the team get their energy in that way.

Andy Worley: I think for me it's about really enjoying what you do and, you know, making light of it. Like, we have photo shoots where, you know, you might change the bed like up to 25, 30 times, and that's like a shit activity. But like, let's have a race and like, you know, I've done this one, you do that one. And it's all about pitching in and just making everything you do enjoyable and approaching it with the right attitude.

Nathan Bush: Normally, photo shoots are a lot of fun. Right. Like, they're usually like a bit of a party atmosphere. Yours just sound horrible.

Andy Worley: I mean, yeah. Changing your bad non stuff. And that's what I'm saying, make them fun.

Nathan Bush: Awesome. All right.

Hayley Worley: They've changed. I mean, I remember we would rent Airbnbs and we shot the whole first website on an iPhone.

Andy Worley: Yeah. The first photo shoot we did, we actually took our mattress from home and ratchet strapped it to the roof of our car. We didn't have roof racks. We just put it on the top of the car and drove it to an Airbnb and even like shoots within the first year. I remember turning up to shoots and we obviously bring doonas to shoot with. I remember mine was still warm because it's the one that I Got out of bed,

Nathan Bush: still had your auggies in there. Speaking of cars, fun fact that I learned about you in a bit of research. I heard that you had to sell a car to buy stock for a Black Friday sale. Is that right?

Andy Worley: Yeah.

Hayley Worley: Oh, that's true. It was about mid-2018 and we were, you know, obviously managing cash flow. Super tight, super stressful. You know, we had what, five credit cards, juggling balance transfer cards and 50 day interest free periods on the MX and PayPal working capital loans. And we just needed a bit more. I think we were about 100k in debt at that point, personally. And we had nothing else left like commbank, we're not interested, thanks. And it was what else we got? Okay, there's probably 20k sitting in your car. Their house.

Nathan Bush: That's gotta go now we get the mattress to photo shoots.

Andy Worley: This was before that. That was before that actually. We put that on your old work car. And I remember Andy saying when I bought this car that don't buy a new car. Cars are an awful investment. And I was like, you know what, Andy? I'm really bad with money and I can't save things, but I can pay things off. And so I just paid this car off. And then when we realized that we needed that money, I was like, see was a good investment.

Hayley Worley: In the end, that was basically a savings account for you. And then we were stuck in your mum's Corolla.

Andy Worley: Yeah, Mum lent me her Corolla.

Nathan Bush: Nothing was rolling along in a Corolla.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, but that all came good. I mean, what? By December 2018, we'd turned over our first million, which was nice. And all the cards got paid back and we bought another car in about January time, I think.

Andy Worley: Yeah.

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Nathan Bush: Was that 2018 Black Friday? Was that kind of a make or break point for you?

Hayley Worley: Look, it was. We were so deep in and if it didn't come off, I don't know, didn't know where we were. Because the goal from the very start is to, is to stay kind of as self funded as possible and not have to get investors and, you know, shareholders and things. So just, you know, keeps things nice and simple for us. We don't really want to switch our focus from, you know, pleasing customers and pleasing our team. So that's, that's been the goal.

Nathan Bush: So is it a no to investment and third parties forever?

Hayley Worley: Gosh, good questions. Can't say forever. I don't know, but definitely not. Right. It's not on the horizon kind of at the moment we just want to see how far we can go and how big we can get it.

Andy Worley: Yeah, it goes back to we just want to have fun. And answering to shareholders is just not fun.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, it's funny just talking to customers than talking to investors, isn't it?

Andy Worley: Absolutely.

Nathan Bush: Just going back to the inventory piece. Right. I remember walking around your warehouse and Andy, you were saying about it looks like there's a lot of stock here and there is a lot of stock here. It's because we've got to plan so far in advance for different sales and seasons and things like that. How hard is that? Especially in today's climate of COVID God,

Hayley Worley: what even is a forecast anymore? Yeah, it was really hard. 2020 was just insane. It was all about get as much stock as possible as quick as possible and keep it moving and pre ordering and yeah, I guess we came a bit unstuck at the end of the year because another lesson we learned was if you get too much stock, you end up with no cash and a warehouse full of stock. So we learned a few lessons there.

Nathan Bush: Yeah. And is there any techniques that you use now to predict what stock and inventory you need?

Hayley Worley: Yeah, we recently hired our first merchandise planner, which we probably should have hired much longer time ago. And I mean, and I always go, you know, kind of baseline sales and layer on promotional uplifts at a multiple of base is kind of how I work things out. But then we've got the lead times to factor in as well. I mean, you know, our suppliers, you know, a lot of manufacturing was shifting out of India and into China and causing a lot of delays and things through last year. So we were working on 4, 5, 6 month lead times on some styles. We really had to find the working capital to sustain stock.

Nathan Bush: Sounds like that's a common theme coming through is cash flow, especially when you're self funded and bootstrapped, is that cash flow is the thing to keep an eye on. Do you have any tips for anyone who's kind of in your shoes four years ago around managing and keeping an eye on that cash flow?

Hayley Worley: Absolutely. Be all over every single dollar in and every single dollar out. Otherwise you just lose track. We managed or did in the past manage cash flow almost to the day at times.

Andy Worley: Yeah. Andy's been really strict with marketing spend as well. Like, we've never written off anything for brand awareness or we just haven't been able to. We haven't given that luxury. And even today we really keep ourselves accountable to that. And it's like, okay, if you're going to put this rock poster up in this area, what do you think the extra sessions will be? So making sure that the business is profitable is really important to keep growing.

Nathan Bush: Does that make it hard when you start thinking about, as you get bigger and you start thinking about things like above the line media, where it's harder to track direct conversions, does that make that difficult to get into?

Andy Worley: Yeah, it is. And I think Kate, our head of marketing, is really frustrated with Andy at the moment. She's like, I just can't track it, Andy. Like, I can't tell you how many sessions will come through from a billboard. And Andy's like, well, if you can't track it, then why should we doing it? It's just this constant battle in the office.

Hayley Worley: It's not about tracking. I just think, you know, let's take a stab and make an assumption. And it's fine to be, to be wrong, but if we didn't think it was a good idea, we wouldn't do it. So how good of an idea is it?

Nathan Bush: So it's not so much about being able to directly track, but actually being able to go, I think this will be the impact, the end impact that it'll have this activity.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, just a gut feel over a period of time just to justify the investment. And it's hard. Yeah, it's a stab in the dark sometimes. But if we don't do it, we won't learn.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. Now, you talked about caught my ear before when you said that you were looking at some AR technology, AR and bed sheets going together. The mind boggles. What are you guys doing in that space?

Andy Worley: Yeah, well, we've built our bed builder and we launched that last year. And the business is all about mixing and matching, so we don't sell anything as sets. And you're encouraged to really create your own personal style that reflects you and your personality. So we didn't feel like we were able to offer that to consumers until we built that little model where you can have a play and add a fitted sheet and change a of ton to like a blush pink or change it to terracotta. And so once we built that, that was a really big moment for us. Cause I've been talking about that for a few years. And when that was up and online, I was kind of thinking, okay, well, what's the next big goal? And then I remember we were in a meeting and I was like, what if it was in ar? And everyone's like, oh, sure, okay.

Nathan Bush: And Andy's like, what's the return on that, Hayley?

Andy Worley: Yeah, I know.

Hayley Worley: I was all in on that one.

Andy Worley: Yeah. And so we put it out to our network. And then it turns out the girl who designed our store knew a guy who she met in a wine bar who was AR designer. And he was right around the corner in Melbourne. And so we had a meeting with him and he had just built another AR model. And, you know, we're in this meeting and he's like, okay, so any questions? And I was like, I don't know what to ask. I never built anything in it. What do people normally ask you? And then we built it out and it was a beast because we think it's the. It's the world's first configurator ar. So it's not just. Just here's this bed in your space. It is something that you've designed out of like 51, quadrillion options.

Hayley Worley: It's up to 512, quintillion different options.

Nathan Bush: Don't even imagine, holy moly.

Hayley Worley: That it'll render in just a couple

Andy Worley: of seconds in your browser. So, you know, something you've just designed in your space is just game changing. And yeah, it's so fun to play with. You know, you're able to scan the corners of your bed and then it drops this mattress over the top of your existing bed so you can see it with your wall color, with your bedside tables. And yeah, really, you can walk up to it and through the browser, look at all the textures and the pillows and things. So, yeah, it's a bit of fun.

Hayley Worley: It's an exciting space. I think it's going to come a long way soon. There are limitations with the current tech that's out there based on iPhones and Androids, but it's something we're really interested in and just want to keep an eye on that tech and keep innovating and seeing how Far we can push it.

Nathan Bush: Is there any of those limitations that you think is holding back from becoming mainstream?

Andy Worley: Look, the experience isn't great. Like, if the mattress moves around a little bit, like, the colors are really hard. And if you've got different lighting in your room, you know, a lot of people only have artificial lighting, and so it is a bit hard to see the shadows and the true colors. So, yeah, it'll get there though, I reckon.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, it's a really, really good start, I think.

Nathan Bush: And it's really interesting what you said there around. You don't sell sheet sets. And then going into being able to create quintillion options of sheets and bedding and pillows and all that sort of stuff, there's kind of. It seems like there's two school thought at the moment around this for customers. Either make it really simple. I don't want to think, just tell me, you know, give me four options and I'll pick one of four and I'll be away. Or there's let me customize and personalize to my style. Have you found that giving customers so many options and so much flexibility has led to any kind of decision paralysis at all?

Andy Worley: Look, it probably does, yeah. And we probably need to be a bit more mindful of that on our website. And we're going to go through a rebuild that'll launch before the end of the year. So, yeah, there is those two people. And how do we capture both of those? Like, how do we really satisfy both of them? And we do a great job on our Instagram about showing you inspirational looks with our colors. But, yeah, I don't think we do a good enough job of the person who just wants. Wants to come in and just be sold something.

Nathan Bush: Yeah. Now, guys, I can't let you go without, you know, your husband and wife team. I feel we've got a bit of your personalities across already and a bit of your differences. Take us into the working life of Andy and Hayley. What do you guys. How do you guys split responsibilities and where do you pay each other off?

Andy Worley: Yeah. When we first started working together, we wrote a list of like, you know, what business functions there were and who got final say of them. Those business functions. And that was actually really helpful because we had a few heated conversations and disagreements and it was like, oh, you've got to win this one, don't you? But now we've got a really opposite skill set, which is really funny because we've got really similar personalities.

Hayley Worley: We actually didn't know that when we started. It was Just the kind of areas that we naturally fell into. I mean, Hayley, just a brilliant creative. But, you know, I noticed early on that some of the more technical and financial side and numbers side of the business just needed so much more focus, and I just naturally slipped into that side, which is what kind of I loved and kind of linked Hayley to all the creative stuff.

Andy Worley: And then I know what pisses Andy off when I've got these big ideas and haven't really thought them through financially.

Nathan Bush: Here's another one.

Andy Worley: Incoming.

Hayley Worley: That's it.

Andy Worley: But I've got Andy down pat. If I've got an idea, I need to be really big and bold about it and give him a week to think about it. And then he usually comes around, and sometimes he spits it back at me like it's his idea.

Hayley Worley: Well, when it's refined into possibility. But that's it. You throw amazing ideas at me and expect, like, a yes straight away, and I immediately think about all the things that are going to go wrong. So it takes me a week of really honing it in and saying, yeah, let's do it, but this is how

Nathan Bush: we're going to do it.

Andy Worley: But I think those tests that you can do online that talk to you about, like, your personalities, a few people go through them with the recruitment process. I think they're so valuable. Like, we can figure out what feels in his cup and what drains his energy. And, you know, HR is something that really drains Andy. Like, having serious conversations he's not great at, but, like, give him a spreadsheet and he'll just be so energized by that. And I'm kind of the opposite. So it's like figuring out how to structure your week and make sure that, you know, if you've got a really tough conversation with someone in the morning, throw some spreadsheets in the afternoon, balance it out again. But, yeah, chill out with a spreadsheet, Andy.

Nathan Bush: Just chill out.

Andy Worley: Yeah. Work towards your skills.

Nathan Bush: That's awesome. But then do you find because you know each other so well, that when it comes to key decisions that impact both of you, say a critical hire in your business, that you can kind of second guess what the other would think?

Hayley Worley: I'd say we're really well aligned most of the time.

Andy Worley: Yeah. And sometimes Andy says yes, and I'm like, oh, I didn't think that was going to be. But I think the thing that's really interesting lately is our team. They kind of know when to go to me and then when to go to Eddie. That's been really interesting. And then they kind of assume that we talk a lot about our days at home and we really try and make an effort not to, like, when we get home, like, the time is for the kids and, you know, we could talk about the sheep society all day, every day, but we need to switch off. So. Yeah, that's something you're really mindful of.

Nathan Bush: Is that hard to switch off when you're growing so much and you've got so many ideas and it's always in the back of your head.

Hayley Worley: Right.

Nathan Bush: Is it a real hard, conscious effort to switch off around the kids?

Andy Worley: Yeah, so hard. And even though we've made a rule, no business in bed, even, like, if you're falling asleep and it's like, oh, but what about. I'm like, no, write it down. Talk to me about tomorrow. Because if you give me an idea, my head's just going to tick over all night. So, yeah, really setting those guardrails in place.

Hayley Worley: Right.

Nathan Bush: And my research has gone to the next level for this one. Right. I heard that you guys met on a dance floor in St Kilda, is that right? Was Andy dancing?

Hayley Worley: Was it?

Andy Worley: No, Andy was sitting down.

Hayley Worley: No, I was standing up.

Andy Worley: Yeah. Yeah. We were both out on a Sunday night. It was. Yeah. Absolutely free, kids. And then, yeah, Andy was sitting down and I kind of gave him the eyes across the dance floor and, you know, hoped that he'd come over and talk to me. And we kind of, like, I was with the maid at the time, we kind of hustled up next to him and, you know, I was standing there for a while. He didn't come and talk to me. And so then my friend said, oh, Hayley, he's not going to talk to you later. Just go. And I'm like, fine, let's go. And then Andy stood up from his chair, tapped me on the back, he said, no, don't go. That was his first words. And then the rest is history.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, it's most beautiful.

Andy Worley: Yeah. He.

Hayley Worley: Then we were engaged 10 months after that, actually.

Nathan Bush: Oh, wow.

Andy Worley: So he sent me a message the next day and he said, we're going out tonight. I really need to see you again. And then within four weeks, he had to move back to England, and I packed up everything and moved over with him.

Nathan Bush: Wow. And then who had the idea for Sheet Society?

Hayley Worley: No, that was definitely Hayley's idea.

Nathan Bush: Yeah. And did it take much convincing Andy, to follow the journey?

Hayley Worley: Look, I didn't get a choice. And then we, you know, we need. I needed. Haley didn't have any savings. It was all in the car. So I needed to dip into mine, you know, and then I needed to make sure it was a safe investment and jumped in to back Hayley up on all the areas that she wasn't particularly strong in from the start. And the other day Hayley came home and was like, I'm quitting my job.

Andy Worley: Yeah. And he's like, don't quit your job. Nah, don't. You can't afford it. And I was like, all right, I won't. And then I came home, I was like, I've got news, I quit my job. He's like, what? And I work better like that. If I've got like a. It was. If it's do or die, that's when I'm like, okay, I need to pull out all the stops and it's not right for everyone. And I'm definitely not recommending that to all of your listeners. But for me, you know, we invested our life savings into the business and I was still trying to hold down a full time job, you know, shipping out orders at the post office on my lunch break. And it just, we'd given all our money to it and I needed to give all my time to it to really make it thrive. And yeah, there is such a different

Nathan Bush: energy to a business when you've got to cut the right and you've got to earn an income and a living from it as opposed to doing as a side hustle. Right?

Andy Worley: Absolutely. And I needed that to really push me.

Nathan Bush: How would you recommend having done both? How would you recommend anyone who's listening who might have a side hustle? Is there any triggers or any signals or any metrics, Andy, that you would go, now's the right time to make it a full time gig?

Andy Worley: I think when you've got opportunities. Yeah, you've got opportunities that you can see are there, that you just aren't allocating your time for. Yeah, I think that's a really big one. If you can, you can see that it's holding you back, then go ahead and you know, when I quit my full time job, I still had to pick up some side hustle. Like I was making wedding dresses on weekends and then eventually phase that out. So, yeah, when I think the, you can see the opportunity there and it just needs more time. That's a really good decider and I think you'll know when that feels right.

Hayley Worley: Yeah. Nice.

Nathan Bush: And look how it's worked out. Perfect.

Andy Worley: Lucky.

Hayley Worley: Yeah. It was touching going for a while.

Nathan Bush: What's next on the radar for yourselves and the Sheet Society.

Andy Worley: We're actually going through a rebrand bombshell. I know. Bombshell. So, yeah, we're going to be called Sheet Society, not the Sheet Society.

Nathan Bush: Any reason for that?

Andy Worley: I feel like when I first started the brand, I wanted to call it the Sheet Society because I wanted to give it a bit more credibility. But now we've built this brand and we've got its own credibility. Like it is just Sheet Society now, and that's just who we are. And we thought that was a big call. And then we researched how many people were googling the Sheet Society. More people actually Google sheets, so I feel like that's a good call. We're building.

Hayley Worley: Yeah, we've got to build our website from scratch again. We're actually still running on a out of the sandbox theme that we bought for 250 bucks back in 2017. Get some decent ROI out of that.

Andy Worley: Yep. And then you're gonna start looking to loyalty programs. Yeah. A lot of really fun projects and

Nathan Bush: mix just a few small things.

Hayley Worley: Yeah.

Nathan Bush: Awesome. Now, if anyone's listening to this and wants to get in touch with you, especially Shopify Theme Builders, what's the best way to get in touch?

Andy Worley: Thanks for that. We're just on LinkedIn, so. Yeah, I'm Hayley Worley.

Hayley Worley: Andy.

Andy Worley: Yeah.

Hayley Worley: I love chatting to other business owners. Yeah.

Andy Worley: Andy's got, like a Friday slot where he just has other business owners in and chats to them. So if anyone wants one of Andy's Friday slots.

Nathan Bush: Look at you pimping Andy out now.

Andy Worley: He loves it.

Nathan Bush: No, that's awesome. I love that idea too, because. And that's what I'm finding in this podcast is that Australian e commerce business owners are just so generous for their time and the connection and what you can learn by sharing with other business owners is just phenomenal. So I think it's a great idea. Well done.

Andy Worley: Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? Someone said to me the other day that, you know, e commerce is so supportive because we're all just trying to get people to buy things online. And if we give someone a good experience buying things online, then that's better for other people selling things online, because people are more inclined to shop online. So it is such a great community.

Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. Hayley and Andy, thank you so much for giving us an insight into the Sheet Society and yourselves. It's great to hear you stories and Andy's dating techniques. So they work. They work. Take note. Thanks, guys.

Nathan Bush: Look, I'll level with you. I'M not sure any of the highlights that I'll pull out from that episode are going to top Andy's dating skills, but I'm going to give it a go. Here are my top three actionable takeouts from today's episode with Hayley and Andy handy. Number one Even though the social advertising game is getting harder and we're hearing this from a lot of retailers at the moment, the Sheet Society still aim for an ROI target of 10. That's 10 times the amount of advertising dollars they expect to get in revenue. This is at the higher end of what we typically see, but it is possible with great strategy and content. Don't give up on the those high ROI targets just yet. Number two Once you get upwards of, say, a thousand orders per day, as in Hayley and Andy's story, it is essential that you start considering an automated warehouse management solution. It will likely be one of the most expensive and complicated technology investments you will make, but it will increase efficiencies dramatically and allow you to scale if you get it right. Number three I think we can universally agree that making the bed is a shit activity. Now imagine having to do it up to 30 times in a photo shoot. I loved when Hayley talked about turning dreaded tasks like making the bed into fun team building activities. See if you can take those activities that are really dreaded in your organization and give them a new perspective, perspective and a bit of fun. They can actually work as a team building activity. Great tip.

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