Nathan Bush: Making an effort to go above and beyond and give back to the community. You kind of generate this goodwill, this bucket of goodwill. You've got to have today under control before you can talk about tomorrow. I had this epiphany and literally one night I was like, no one's looking after people in E commerce. No one's looking after this talent pipeline to help businesses that's most important.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week, Nate, Nathan Busch from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers. Adding to Cart.
Tom Hinser: Welcome to Add to Cart. My name is not Nathan Bush, it's Tom Hinser, a former Add to Cart guest and head of operations at Mr. Poolman. This pod's going to be a little left to field and I've jumped in the hot seat to turn the tables and hand the mic over to Bushy. Firstly, we need to call out that Add to cart is 100 and that's 100 episodes from absolute legends, inspiring founders, disruptors and entrepreneurs all here in our backyard jumping on Add to Cart to tell us their epic stories. Now, Bushy, he's a digital God in himself, consecutively ranking in the top 50 people of E commerce, which is no easy feat and this bloke's done it four years in a row. Today I'll take you down memory lane with Nathan Unpack, where it all began with super retail Group and driving it home to co founding and directing his own e commerce talent agency, E Suite. As always with Add to Cart, there'll be nuggets throughout the conversation of the high fives and the low blows, this time with Nathan's own spin on it. So, thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Signet, here's our conversation with the one and only Nathan Bush from Add to Cart. Welcome to your own podcast, mate. How are you feeling about it?
Nathan Bush: Oh, mate, I'm not sure about handing the reins over to you. What has happened to this podcast?
Tom Hinser: Mate, I've got to thank you for it. I just think it's such a good opportunity where you've put so much time and effort into all walks of life here in the digital landscape within Australia. And I think why not a better opportunity now to put you under the spotlight and turn the tables. And let's hear about Nathan Bush and your story thus far.
Nathan Bush: Well, it was funny. It was funny. When we had our conversation and after it, you were like, I remember you phoning me up on the Wednesday or whatever afterwards. And you're like, bushy idea for you when you get to episode 100. And it was episode 20 something at the time. So it was really early days. I'm going to interview you because people need to know where you've come from and what you do. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. But 100's a long way off. Yeah. And here we are.
Tom Hinser: That's it. We've made it, Mike. So congrats.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tom Hinser: And I think that's a massive call out for. For Ad to Cart and for you and your team at Add to Cart to be able to proudly say that you've interviewed 100 people within the digital landscape of Australia. I think it's unreal. And I'm sure all the listeners do, too. And, you know, we've all sat back and gone. There's some really good takeaways that you've brought to the table. I'm sure that have. That have helped other. Other business owners and entrepreneurs and founders and the like. So, mate, congrats to you and the Add to Cart family.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, thanks. There's just like, there's obviously a team that. Behind this. I've got it to a point where I'm able to turn up and just have good chats with good people, which is what I love. Right. And then we've got Amy and Gil and the expressway team behind it who are really driving it, and they're the real people who make it work. But I just feel so lucky that there's so many people like yourself and other founders and leaders in E Comm in Australia that actually just want to sit down for an hour. And the amount that you guys share is crazy. Like, I love it. And for me it's just chats and I love E commerce. I love chatting, so it works for me.
Tom Hinser: Yeah. And I think that's where you get the best, is where people like, yeah, coming onto us, our podcast like this and being vulnerable and talking about those highs and the lows, which I'm sure we can touch on a few stories later on in the pod. But let's go back a step there. And where did work start for yourself? Where did Nathan Bush come into his working life and where did it progress? Walk us through that.
Nathan Bush: I'll pick out some of the parts of that story, I think, rather than tell it all. But I was lucky enough that when I went to School. I got a scholarship at Southern Cross University, and I was 17 at the time. And I remember getting the call after sitting the HSC and them going, you can come to Southern Cross. And I was like, well, I don't even know what I want to do yet. And they're like, you can pretty much pick whatever you want to do and you can do it. And this isn't me being arrogant. This is just the situation. And I didn't know what I want to do. And I was like, what do I do? And at the time, I had visions of being Jerry Maguire. Like, I just love that movie. And I am nothing like Jerry Maguire. But I was like, maybe if I do sports science mixed with law, that'll be. That'll be my path. So that was kind of where the. The thinking was that that didn't work out. I kind of sat in 18 months of law school, debating and reading a lot of law textbooks. I was like, yeah, that's not gonna happen. So I dropped out and went and studied marketing at qut, which was awesome. And much to the display of, I think my parents at the time, they were like, what the hell are you doing? Like, marketing. What even is that? Because, you know, teachers and nurses, you know, at least if you're a lawyer, they know exactly what you are. Like, if you're a teacher, you're a nurse, you're a lawyer. That's kind of all fits. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do marketing. And it's like, what job is it? I'm like, I don't even know yet. Like, I couldn't tell you. So I did that. And then I was in advertising agencies for a while, leading strategy and stuff like that, until I got to the point. Probably in my late 30s or early. Sorry, late 20s. I'm aging myself where leading strategy in agencies across some good clients, but got to the point where agency life, I feel, has a shelf life on it. Lots of fun, lots of parties, lots of great clients, interesting briefs, but it burns you out pretty quickly. And I said, I really want to be in control of something. And that's when I got the offer from Super Retail Group to come over and head up their digital and E commerce across the group of Rebel Sport, BCF and Superchip Auto and a couple of other brands. And that was kind of my birth into retail, I suppose. I'd worked on retail clients before in agencies, but I think working in agencies on clients is a lot different to being in the business. And I quickly learned that retailers are a Special breed, right? Yeah, it's a whole new mindset.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely. And then so with super retail group, and I guess just to give myself and I guess listeners some context there. So did you start at the bottom and work your way up or were you sort of kind of to come straight in at a team lead role and you had. You had a team above and around you?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I came straight into that team lead role. So my official title was Group Digital Manager, but the role changed a lot in the time. So started in a marketing role, leading a team of developers, designers, mainly online teams. And then that changed. I was there for six years and moved more into a technology role, leading platforms and roadmaps and that kind of thing for the E commerce team. So looking back, it was a blessing in that kind of putting those two worlds of marketing and tech together. Yeah, yeah, you know, that's. That's a really great skill. But there was a lot of change and there was always a little lot of jockeying for where do you fit in when you're trying to lead across such a big group?
Tom Hinser: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Bush: I think the hardest part along that journey was trying to get, you know, five, six, seven brands into one direction the whole time. So even though they're all outdoor and lifestyle brands, trying to get five brands all thinking the same way and going, yes, we're all agreeing on that because everyone, and I'm not just saying this about srg, but I think every retailer thinks they're a special snowflake and have all, you know, hugely different requirements. But when you break it all down, retail is actually a fairly simple game with some, you know, great 1 percenters on top of it. So we were trying to give the right foundations and then let the brands do their 1 percenters on top of that. And the brands did most of the hard work, to be honest. So I found the biggest challenge is in alignment. And, you know, when I started there, we were doing as a group, about $4 million online, and by the time we finished, it was 140 and obviously huge teams behind that. So I'm not taking credit for that at all. But the landscape of the business changes a lot when you start being a significant part of the business is online. So you start, you know, at the start was really about going, I think this is where we should move and this is where we've got to go and to kind of get there. And people are like, yeah, that's nice. All right, cool. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And then all of a sudden it's like, ah, this is significant. And then the requests come the other way. It's like, no, we've really got to push this online, let's do this. I'm like, so it was hard trying to manage that change in expectations along the way and I think I spent by the end more time in meeting rooms than I did with the team. And that's kind of when I think it becomes really draining. Some people will try and tell you that turning traditional plastic packaging tape into strong eco friendly paper tape is impossible. Well, not for our friends at Signet. In fact, it's a simple and cost effective way to reduce your plastic usage and create a more sustainable packing offering. And it's available to everyone. Our partners at Signet have been helping leading retailers such as T2, Lush Cosmetics and Mecca and reduce their plastic usage and create a more sustainable supply chain with their range of eco friendly packaging products. To get started today, visit signet.net au and find out more.
Tom Hinser: Obviously you're quite a creative person as most people are on this podcast and a bit of a go getter. Were you confined with budgets and timelines and that kind of level from management, you know, trying to work within certain aspects that just didn't fit the bill?
Nathan Bush: I wouldn't say confined. I mean if you look at Super Retail group, there's plenty of money there. Yeah, it's just how good you are at unlocking it. And I think if I had my time again, I would have played the game a little bit better. Like I was probably immature at the political game and I don't think I'd still be good at it right now if I'm honest. But there were times where I felt it was battling uphill. So for example we were, you know, when I got there we were on a net custom built platform and we knew that it was never going to last us. You know, the test of time. Like the first two Christmases I spent all Boxing Day on the phone trying to sort out outages and this kept happening and it got to the point where we had to re platform but we ended up replatforming onto Salesforce Commerce Cloud. But that took five years, but only 18 months of that was implementation. The first three and a half was business cases and two lots of RFPs. Because in a business like that there is always competing priorities and that's the reality of it. So at one stage my funding for that got pulled to be put into building a new warehouse which is the right call because there's no use us building this great platform if We've got nowhere to ship and store products.
Tom Hinser: Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: So it's just the realities of a big business that you've got to compromise and work within the beast rather than try and fight against it.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely. No, totally agree. And then did you find that your skill set developed a lot working in, in that role, which I guess led you to leave Super Retail Group? Did it? Is that what was the driving factor with you now have this skill set, you had this experience and you thought that you could do something yourself?
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. I think, you know, super. I o so much to my time there and you know, some of the people I worked with, they were phenomenal, like the best retailers you will ever meet. And I learned so much there. And just seeing that kind of growth really sets you up to look at this not from just a digital perspective, but from a retail end to end perspective. Because it was like I said before, there was no point us driving, you know, acquiring all these customers, converting customers. If we didn't have the customer service set up, if we didn't have the fulfillment, the logistics, the in store, everything matching up to the experience, unless we tried to pull that together, not just worry about the pixels on a page, there was no point. So it really gave me a really well rounded vision of what good retail experience looks like.
Tom Hinser: Yeah. So during your time at Super Retail Group, Nath, at what point did you go, hmm, I kind of, I want to do this for myself. Or you found that you'll say not growing within that role anymore and that you could potentially leverage that skill set now outside of that and like do some sort of like strategy yourself. Where did that come about?
Nathan Bush: I think there was never a question of whether I could grow more in the role. There was always more growth there. And you can see some of the great stuff that they're doing right now. There's, there's, you know, huge opportunity there. I think it was a personal thing for me. Honestly, if I look back on it. I remember one day I got home and my wife just looked at me and Sarah and she was like, you just look gray. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, your face is gray. You just have lost the passion and the energy and the excitement. And she's like, it's not just today. It's been been for the last few weeks. When's enough's enough. And I think it was that combination of not being hands on, not being creative, spending a lot of time in meeting rooms, you know, convincing heaps of people of a direction and Trying to play that game rather than just getting in and doing things. And even though that stuff's important, it's not where I get my energy from. Yeah, absolutely. So I think there was a really great lesson for me. There is that you need to respond to your energy and what excites you because it impacts everything. Right. Because I had two young kids at the time, they would have been one and two. And so you come home and you've got nothing left for them. And that's just the worst feeling in the world because that's what you're doing it for. Right. So that was a turning point for me to kind of have that conversation. To have someone else realize it in you, even though you were innately feeling it. To have someone else realize it was like a real, oh, wow, I've got to do something about this. And so I kind of looked around, what do I do now? I've done agency, I've done retail and I wanted to stay in Brisbane. I love Brisbane. Great place, want to bring my family up here. And I looked around, I went, there's nowhere else that's really exciting me. I always talk about the Brisbane Merry Go Round around Domino's, Suncorp Flight center, all great organizations. And if you want to stay at that corporate level of Super Retail group, all great organizations. But I was feeling, you know, my energy was saying, I need to be somewhere else. And looking at those lessons that I'd had from super retail Group about the end to end customer experience, not just looking at E commerce from a website perspective, I was like, I bet there's a lot of businesses out there that could benefit from this end to end view. And I tested it and yeah, there was, it was, it was, you know, I remember setting my sights on the first client. I was like, if I could have any client anywhere, like anywhere in this area, who would it be? Who would be the ideal client? And I landed on Stone and Wood. I was like, if I ever got Steiner Ward, yeah, I'd be stoked. Like, if I ever got to work with those guys. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Hinser: And now you've done a podcast with them. Absolute legend.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, they're awesome. And I remember Cam put me on to them. I got introduced, I kind of put out into the world and you know, this is who I'd love to work with. I got an introduction and we just clicked straight away. Benny. The XMD of Stone Award. We just clicked and ended up working with them for 18 months along with other clients. But it was just so nice to go, yeah, these Skills translate and I've developed and can make a difference to other businesses.
Tom Hinser: And I think that's like what you said, where you start and feeling more fulfilled within the work that you're doing, like, not only rewarded, but in yourself. You've got the confidence, you're implementing this skill set that you've obviously practiced over time for so long. And not so much reaping the rewards, but seeing the benefits of how you can give that skill set to somebody else or to a business or an organization, no matter what the commercial agreement may be, is just to be able to provide and, and execute and have that fulfilling moment where you're seeing your projects go live or you're seeing the, you know, the fruits of your hard work and being able to stand back and go, you know, that, that, that was me.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. And I think there's something in my mission. I'll call it a mission. I don't know if it's really a mission, but it's. I'm probably better at being outside of a business and helping amplify success rather than being in the business. I'm not. I don't have the grind in me. I don't think that you need in retail. I don't know, you probably shed more light on it than me. But I like being those big creative ideas. Setting the big roadmap, setting the strategy, how to get there.
Tom Hinser: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And then moving quickly.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can relate to that. I think there was a transition for myself and Matt within Mr. Pullman where a few years ago we stopped working in the business and we worked on the business. It was actually the boys from Aus, Hair and Beauty as well that said the same thing to me when I was. I jumped on a call with them and just had a chat about business and obviously growth and whatnot. And I remember it clearly. And they were like, oh, you know, are you still working in the business? I said, here I am, unfortunately. Obviously, you know, you wear all hats when you, when you're, when you are that startup phase and trying to cover all bases. And they were like, wait till you get into the role where you're working on the business and you've got a, you know, the team around you for whatever that channel may be, whether it be customer support operations, that kind of stuff. And it is only of late when. And I now have an extended team both in house and remotely that is just able to pull those levers and. Same thing. Like, it's just, it's completely different when you're setting strategies and Game plans rather than picking packing orders. As rewarding as that still is, you know, in time to time I do go down to the warehouse floor and help the team out and, and that too is also rewarding in itself. You still get a little bit of everything, but I totally get where you're coming from, from that high level strategy and building that out for the people to execute and again, providing assistance where you can business or within that role based on your experiences from the ground up.
Nathan Bush: So, and don't get me wrong, there's nothing better than nerding out in, you know, getting deep into GA or overhearing customer calls or being in the warehouse with the team to understand really what's going on. Because you can't set strategy without being on the ground or in the tools. If you don't know what's going on, then you can't just be this, oh, I just sit here and I set strategy and I move, you know, pins around a board. Because PowerPoint won't solve anything in retail, you've actually got to get shit done.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. How would you find that? The transition from super retail group to your own startup, 12 High, we'll call it a startup because it was.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, it was.
Tom Hinser: How did you find that transition from going working in a corporate world to standing your own two feet? And from memory, was there any sort of key challenges that you faced that you look back on now and think, shit, how did I do that?
Nathan Bush: I think it was like, it was so refreshing. It was like scary as hell because I'd never run a business right. Like I said before, Mum's a nurse, dad's a teacher, we come from a very much a paycheck family, which is fantastic. But there was no one really that I've gone, oh, this is how you run a business. Like I was, even though I did a business degree. They don't teach you how to do zero. They don't teach you how to, you know, invoice contracts, all that sort of stuff. Geez, I don't even know where to start. But luckily I had a good, good network of people around me to kind of call upon. But then once you get over that, I think it's just from a consulting perspective. How do you manage doing good work and also find new business? So that's the hard balance. And early on my strategy was just do good work and the business will follow rather than trying to do two separate streams of work because it can be so distracting when you're working for a client. And then also chasing the next client. So I was just like, no, just do good work, and then that will speak for itself. And that seemed to work really well.
Tom Hinser: And I think we here at Mr. Poolman have, like, worked with consultants as well, obviously quite extensively across the various channels. And some, like, feedback that we've had and seen with them as well is that it's hard to continuously bring that same amount of energy to every client that you may be working with. And especially when every business can be so different that one customer or client may be, like, on the ball, things are working and it's great. And then you go to the next one, and it's kind of like, mission critical. The ducks aren't aligned. You guys aren't seeing eye to eye and trying to have that switch between, like, if you've got consecutive clients in a day or in a week, it can become quite draining. Is the feedback I've had from, you know, consultants working with us, I guess, you know, Nat and I have always brought a lot of energy to the table, so I think they've always had, you know, interest in working with us. But I can see how other businesses or people in roles within businesses, that they may not own that business or that company, and they're just there doing their nine to five. It would be hard working with that, with that person, because they are only there for, you know, maybe their paycheck. And you're trying to bring that strategy to the table.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Tom Hinser: And just getting nothing back from them. You kind of like, what do I do?
Nathan Bush: And you have to win. You have to win some people over. Right. Some people just hate consultants because either one, they've had bad experiences with them before, which is totally understandable, or they feel threatened that the consultants are here to make them look bad and to do their job. Like, I remember one senior manager, I wasn't a consultant at the time, but one of my bosses that I worked with one time, we had a consultant in, and we were doing the introductions, right? And these aren't small consultants. These are, you know, we're talking big, four big consultants. And came in, into the office, took him into the office of this person. And the first thing this person said to this consultant was, do you want my watch? And the consultant was like, no, no. I don't know. Why would you say that? He's like, oh, oh, I thought you just want to take my watch so you could tell me what time it is.
Tom Hinser: What?
Nathan Bush: And so that was their view. Right. And that's just one individual, but it was just like, oh, you're going to just come in, pillar me for information, and then relay it back in another way that doesn't actually add any value.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, right. They definitely got burned.
Nathan Bush: And you get those kind of personalities. And that's the beauty of being an independent consultant, is that you can pick and choose the people that you match the energy of and that you get along with, and you feel like you can create value together. Because at the same time, I can come up with ideas and I can share where I think the road to gold is, but I'm not going to be the one in there every day. So if I don't have people who believe in that with me and we can develop it together, then no matter how good that strategy is, it's not going to lead to results.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, and I agree with that. And I think that's something that, again, Natalie and I can refer to, is that ourselves have been guilty of it, and I'm sure many businesses, too are as well, is that people have the misconception that they're going to get a consultant and they're going to come in and just be the silver bullet, whether that be an accountant or a data analyst or, you know, an operations or a supply chain manager or something like that, where you, you know, a, you're paying this person probably a lot of money, and B, you're expecting the world of them, but they as well, do not know every moving part of your business, and nor should they really. Like, at the end of the day, they're there to consult to you, not to execute and be in the trenches and that kind of stuff. So I think that's also something where we at, Mr. Poolman, have also in the past assumed or expected too much from a consultant, and they technically have delivered, but to us, they underperformed and we were kind of left going well. And then you start justifying the costs and all of that, and it starts getting really gray and really fluffy. And you kind of start then not so much questioning yourself, but you're like, whoa. Like, that was six or 12, 12 months of that contract with that, you know, and you kind of think, was it beneficial? And it just. It can go very south, very quick.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely, absolutely. It's. Unless there's synergies there, it can get really off track really quickly. And that's where I came in really early. And one of my first, and this was a lesson for me in consulting was to try and productize things. And I had that advice from a good mate of mine, Anthony Deva, really early on, he Was like, if you can productize things. But I really struggled to do that in the early stages because everyone wanted something a little bit different. And then as soon as I landed on a 90 day E commerce strategy that seemed to hit the spot. And where I was like, we're not going to sit here and do a five year plan for your business because who knows where the hell we'll be in a year, let alone five years. What if I just come in and help you on the next 90 days? And that seemed to hit the spot. So as soon as I was able to productize that product were away. But I think where I fell down, not fell down, but where it kind of capped out was that I never created it to be a consultancy where I wanted to hire heaps and heaps of people and turn it into an agency. It was like, it was almost like that stepping stone into something else that was coming. I didn't know what, what else was coming, but it was the stepping stone into something else that was allowing me a really good lifestyle helping. It was just myself. But then I partnered up with a lot of other consultants and agencies to deliver in there. So trusted people that I trusted I'd bring in and go, I've worked with these guys before, they'll do a good job with what you're after. So people had had me on a hook basically. So if they had agencies or other people that I brought in that didn't perform, I'd absolutely have to try and, you know, make that work. So that model really worked, but I never really wanted to take it to the next level.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, okay, okay, okay. I guess just to grab you there and like, let's just, let's just pause on that thought for a moment. If you've got, obviously you've got a very wide audience that listens to add to cart. If you've got, say some listeners at the moment, which may be in a agency role that are absolute ninjas in their field, what would be, say a word of advice that you'd give them if they're contemplating taking that role to become a consultant or a strategist in their own respectful space? I know it's quite a broad question, but you know, if somebody said to you, hey Nathan, want to do consulting? What would be your basic recommendations to make that step? Like looking back on your experience, what could you provide there?
Nathan Bush: I'd probably say that you need to start giving early on, right? So don't wait till you go. Don't just sit there in your job at the moment. And go, this is good. Getting a paycheck. And when I need to consult, I'll go out and find business. It's like from the early stages of my career, back when I was in agencies, I'd always try and share what I could, whether that be in social forums like LinkedIn or Twitter or speaking at conferences or whatever, that there was usually absolutely nothing in it financially for me at the time because I was happy in my job. It was just a chance to meet new people and to be part of a community. And I did a lot of that. Even at Super Retail Group. Did a lot. Even though it had to be more kind of corporatized. I suppose there's. Being a publicly listed company is only so much you can share. But just by continuing that and making an effort to go above and beyond and give back to the community, you kind of generate this goodwill, this bucket of goodwill and people know what you're about. And then, so when it came time for me to be a consultant, I actually didn't have to do any business development. People already knew what I stood for, kind of the value that I could offer through my time there. And we're ready to go. So that would be my advice, is like, start early, just start giving. You never know where it'll lead.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely. And play that long game, I guess, like you said, is provide that value initially for really no monetary value and prove your worth. And then if obviously if it is worthwhile to that customer and they're worthwhile, then you're gonna, you're gonna make that money back down the track.
Nathan Bush: That's it. And like it's not even a big about the money most of the time. Like some of my best friends I've met through the industry and it's just because you're open and you're honest in yourself and you're available and you just meet some of the best people. So that's just, that's been the biggest payback for me, is just this network of trusted people that I feel like I've got around me now that I can always call upon people like yourself, you know, in. Whether it's in retail, whether it's in advertising, whether it's in tech, you just have this feeling of support and community just by giving.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, and I totally agree with that. I think especially here, you know, I always refer it to on LinkedIn as our digital family. And I feel like the digital community here in Australia, like you said, whether it's logistics, marketing, operations, all of that kind of aspect, I feel that the community here in Australia is pretty tight. You know, you can always reach out to somebody on LinkedIn, connect with them, shoot them a message, as I have done so. And I know there's a lot of people out there on LinkedIn and put a message off me, so. And I think that's just what's so cool. And I guess that's what I'm about. That's what I value. If someone shot me a message, whatever it may be, I'd always give them the time to at least reply or if I can't help them, maybe connect them with somebody that can and just do that because I guess that's where I've received so much value from people like yourself, other merchants of our size, if not greater, that have always been willing to just, even just reply. Maybe they might not be able to give you what you need, but for them to at least acknowledge you, I think unreal. And that's just common courtesy really. Because, you know, no one really knows what they're doing. Everyone's just out there having the best crack at every day.
Nathan Bush: Oh, that's. To be honest, that's why I started ADD to cart, right? Because I got a great contract was with Michael Hill three days a week. Started as a month contract, ended up being 18 months ish, which was fantastic. Great organization to work on, did some really cool projects. But my worry at the time was that it's going to. By putting myself into a business three days a week was going to take me away from that community and seeing all different clients and different types of businesses and making those connections. And that's why I started ADD to cart so we could stay connected with people and share stories and all that sort of stuff. And it's been the best thing for that. Like the amount of people like just privileged to meet through ADD to cart. It's been phenomenal. And where I was going. Sorry, is that the one theme that keeps coming through on ADD to CART is most founders at the start didn't know what they were doing.
Tom Hinser: Oh yeah.
Nathan Bush: And just jumped in, had a great idea, had an opportunity and just went. Didn't research it too much and just went, we'll figure it out.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I and Nat have done everything we could in the business back to front. I don't think we've done. I don't think we've done anything in a normal methodical way. It's all been back to front. So yeah, Kevin, definitely relate to that. And amen with. With ADD to cart, it's definitely what I think the podcast has brought to the Australian digital community is that connection and that level of understanding that you see these big brands and then they jump on, add to cart and you're like, oh shit, they're going through that same thing as well. And that's definitely something that for me has sparked conversations with various people in the Australian digital ecosystem. I'm like, well, I didn't actually know that they were going through that. I'm going to ping them a message and sure enough, we've teed up a call or had a coffee or a beer or whatever it may be. And it's just opened up a whole new aspect of, of learning basically. And it's really cost that person, you know, five or 10 minutes of their time. And it's been invaluable to myself and again, my business as well. So, yeah, I think that's great.
Nathan Bush: Australian brand Rolly Nation makes footwear that is lightweight and the favorites of suitcase stuffers around the globe. So when Rolling Nation wanted to put a greater focus on direct to consumer, they migrated to Shopify Plus. With integrations into Gorgias for customer service, Smile for loyalty, Klaviyo for direct marketing, and Okendo for customer reviews, Rolly Nation were able to deliver a site that was as lightweight as their shoes. They immediately achieved a 62% improvement in page speed, which contributed to a 3.5% increase in conversion. As Limp Bizkit would say, they're now rolling, rolling, rolling. To read more of Rolling Nation's story and to see other case studies, visit the customer sections on shopify.com/plus. It's not about the size of the business either. It's about the personalities behind it. Sometimes you find some of the smallest businesses are the most closed off and some of the bigger businesses are the most open. So you never know. Like, I would never be intimidated around speaking or reaching out to founders of bigger businesses because sometimes they're the most giving people and that's how they became big, by continually giving and then getting those returns. And that network effect.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely, mate, absolutely. So how long, how long did you spend at 12 high doing your consultancy?
Nathan Bush: It would have been about three years. Three years. So left Super Retail Group and did that for three years.
Tom Hinser: And then you moved into where you are now, which is E Commerce, Talent Agency, E suite. Dive into that for us. Unpack that and tell us all about it.
Nathan Bush: So it was a bit of a left hand turn. So it was the, it was the light that it was the end of 12 high that I didn't know was coming. Right. So during COVID obviously consulting to a bunch of e commerce retailers and some were scrambling to catch up. Right, because we, you know, we've had this whole five years growth in one year. We've all heard that and, and we'd get a lot of requests for hey, can you, we just need to move platforms, we need to get to Shopify plus or hey, we need to double our ad spend. Whatever it was, it was like there was lots of catching up being done and the story that it kept coming back to is like, we can do this, like this is all fine, it's all achievable, but if we do it and if your sales triple, who's going to look after it? Because I'm a consultant, I'll come in and help you get the direction. But I'm not running this ship for you. Where's your team, where's your expertise, where's your skills? And a lot of them would turn around and go, we don't have that part sorted out yet. We'll get the technology first or the marketing first, which obviously then if it can't be supported, leads to a horrible customer experience and it's really short lived and you won't get long term roi. Absolutely.
Tom Hinser: And just to grab you on that point, Nate, I think I've firsthand asked you point blank about staffing and e commerce roles within our business and Mr. Bullman and you just said, mate, there's a shortage. There's an absolute shortage. What are you seeing at the moment across the digital landscape? What kind of roles are in demand and what bums in seats are you trying to fill?
Nathan Bush: So we created E suite to help people fill the gaps in their business. So we, our motto is around connecting fast growing retailers with the best e commerce talent. All we do is e commerce talent, but it's every role from at the moment we've got a fashion director through to e commerce managers, to UX specialists, to warehouse managers, to product specialists. So anything in the e commerce sphere is where we play. The ones that we're seeing the hottest demand in at the moment is I would say too is paid performance. If you're in paid performance, you're in hot demand. And development, the development one's an interesting one. I'm not sure how long development will stay in high demand as we see more platforms become more off the shelf. There's obviously always going to be a market for custom development and custom platforms, but we're seeing especially those small to medium businesses have Less reliance on developers than they would in the past.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And shout out to Shopify. With sections everywhere, it'd be great to finally get that live and working.
Nathan Bush: So did that excite you? Unite too? Did that excite?
Tom Hinser: It did, mate, it did. It's just, I guess there's aspects and elements of Shopify that, like, they tell you these product releases, which is unreal, everyone gets excited. It's like, oh, shit, hold on, when's that going live? Or, you know, you might have a development roadmap. Like what we do three, six months built out down the track and then Shopify throw something like this and it's like what we need to change it all to Jason, like, and it's just another whole realm. But mate, we won't go into, we won't go into that now I want to circle back. So shout out to Emily, your co founder at E Suite. Now, did you guys work together prior to E Suite or how did that come about?
Nathan Bush: No, we didn't. She tried to poach me a couple of times from Super Retail Group and we always got along. So I'd always, you know, we'd always hang out, have chats and stuff, but. But never actually took her, never helped her with any of her commissions. So she was, she's been, you know, a recruiter in the digital marketing and tech space for about 15 years now. And, and always for me, Em was always kind of the shining light of recruitment, ethical, hard working, always in the interests of both parties. And so I always had so much time for Em and we became really great friends and I think in a way became my career counselor, which didn't help her with any of her targets or budgets. It probably cost her more in coffee. But when it came time, I still remember a conversation right at the end of Super Retail Group, when I sat down, I was like, well, I've got to do something, I've got to find. And she, you know, I talked about energy before. She's next level. Like she's crystals on the desk. Mushroom tea.
Tom Hinser: Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: I take the piss out of her all the time about this. It's great. So we're kind of polar opposites when it comes to this, but we're really, what we've found is we're really united in values, but the way we operate is fairly different. And I remember sitting down with her, she's like, bushy. I've got this just this feeling that you're going to end up running an agency. And I was like, nah, that's not going to happen. I was like, I've managed teams for this long. I can't imagine employing people. So then I started 12 high, and I was by myself for three years. I was like, MC didn't come true. And then I had this epiphany. And literally one night I was like, no one's looking after people in E commerce. No one's looking after this talent pipeline to help businesses that's most important. And I literally sat down one night and wrote a business plan for Esweep. And I knew nothing about recruitment. I knew nothing about the recruitment model, but I knew there was something there. And I called them up and I said, can we go to lunch? I've got something to show you. And I took a tour. And I didn't actually say I wanted to go into partnership with her, but I said to em, I've got this idea. Here's the plan. Here's what I think it could be. And she looked at me and she was like, yeah, it's okay. And that was it. And then she calls me up about a week later. I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting feedback. And she calls me up a week later. She goes, bushy, what do you want from me here? I'm like, I don't know. I just want to see if it's a good idea. And, you know, is there any interest? And she's like, I think it's a cracking idea, but you know nothing about recruitment. The business model you wrote is totally wrong. You know nothing about recruitment, but the idea is absolutely right. So she's like, if we re. If we reshape this, I'm in.
Tom Hinser: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And I'm like, cool. Never asked you to be in, but I'm glad you're in. And then from there, we hit the ground running, like, really quickly, and we launched in October last year.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, right.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. It's, you know, the thing that really excites me. 12 highs on the back burner, and we won't continue down that path. And E Suite is, you know, where we really want to focus in. Around people in E Commerce. Yeah.
Tom Hinser: Nice. And then how do you find. I guess, question for me here is obviously, firstly, your growth at E Suite. How have you guys found that in the last six, eight months since you've started? And what are the challenges that you can, I guess, face in E suite compared to 12 high? Like, obviously, 12 high was your first one. Now this is your second one. What are the differences in the challenges that you face between the two? And how has that worked with the growth that you've had.
Nathan Bush: I think the difference is a totally different business model. Right. Is that E Suite is people focused, which if you're setting out a strategy, you're in total control of that strategy to a certain point. Right. Covid obviously throws things up and you get curveballs here and there, but you can set a plan and you can pretty much stick to it or change it as needed. People are a bit more unpredictable, which is kind of great and it kind of makes it fun. But you can never be certain where you're going in recruitment because you've got to respond to what's out there. So for me, actually one of the things that's been good for me is that we've split it so that EM heads up the recruitment division and I head up the consulting and the training. So we're a talent agency, not a recruitment agency. So we realize that, that we can't just shift bums around on seats because Australian E commerce is small. We've got closed borders, there's a skills shortage. If we just keep moving people around organizations, that's going to get real old real quick. Right. So we've got to play a role in breeding the pipeline and helping people find their opportunities and advancing to different levels and skill sets. So EM leads the recruitment, I lead the consulting. So I help a lot of, I do some coaching with executives and founders to kind of find through org structures and leadership teams and all that sort of stuff. But we're also developing some really cool training programs at the moment to help graduates find their way into E commerce businesses. So hoping to launch that in November. More details to come on that. So we want to be well rounded talent agency. But where I was going with that was about a month ago Em got sick and she was really sick. She, you know, she was out of action for a week and we had jobs running and she was like, pushy. You're gonna have to become a recruiter for a little while. And I was like, oh really? Like I have to get my hands. I have to actually do the recruitment. And it was fascinating. And it took me probably, you know, there was 24 hours there where I was like, you know, I don't feel comfortable doing this. It was exactly what we're talking about before. It's like throwing yourself into something. We're talking about this at the start of the podcast, throwing yourself into something. And then I was like, actually no, take this as a challenge. Like you've never ever completed a recruitment job. That's a great opportunity to Learn. And it was fascinating to be able to throw myself in there. And I learned so much and was actually able to place, you know, place a role or two which had this great sense of achievement just by being uncomfortable and finding a way through. So it's pushing me. And again, because there's no one doing this in Australia, not to this specialty level, to this specialty level, just to E Commerce, it's really exciting because we get to tread our own path into where it is and what it turns into.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you guys, you guys are based. Based in Brisbane.
Nathan Bush: Yep.
Tom Hinser: Plans on staying there or you're gonna, you're gonna open up somewhere in Sydney or Melbourne or you're able to work fully remote.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So we have jobs all over the country. You've got Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Byron, all sorts of jobs everywhere. So national. National listings actually hired Yulia and Yulia's joined the team. She's in Melbourne and heading up our Melbourne office, which has been fantastic to have her come on board. She came on board about two months ago, but we still haven't been able to meet her in person because of COVID Every time we've booked about flights about four times and every time we've had a lockdown. So you know, we're still. We. We talk every day and you know, she's phenomenal. So it's been great to have someone on the ground in Melbourne to do that and plans are to kind of.
Tom Hinser: And we've got the same, we've got the same issues even at Mr. Poolman. Like we just. We hired a head of customer. Head of customer support. He's based in Brizzy. Shout out to Luke. Great, great asset to the team. But Nat as well. A lot of. A lot of my team is obviously boots on the ground in the warehouse. So where we're located on the central coast. But a lot of Natalie's team's remote and located. Yeah. Brisbane, Melbourne. We've got a few offshore guys as well. So yeah, can definitely relate to the whole extended team. Trying to logistically meet and greet and build those teams remotely is also a challenge in itself.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. And what we're seeing at E Suite is that there is a transition to back well before these latest lockdowns, but back to requiring only workers that are local. Local or team members that are local. So it was like, we're hiring, we're in Sydney, we need people in Sydney. We don't need them in the office every day, but we kind of need them at least three. We need them local. So they can be in the office when needed, whereas we thought when Covid hit that this be this influx of remote working. And I don't think it's become the case. But when you're forced into remote working, you realize that there's new ways to build repertoire and relationships that are just as deep and just as effective as in person if you put the right structures around it.
Tom Hinser: Absolutely. Absolutely. In communicating, I think so many people. I was listening to a Tom Bielew podcast the other day. One of his guests that he has on there talks about how we've never had more tools to communicate. But so many people struggle with listening to understand rather than listening like most people listen to respond. And that's great in a debate or a strategy and you need to have like rapid fire responses. But in this day and age, so many people struggle to listen to understand. That's something in myself that I'm trying to work on as I manage a team and Natalie manages a remote team as well. So whether we're implementing that own lesson within our workspace or our warehouse at Mr. Pullman or Natalie's implementing that with her digital team via Zoom and whatnot, we as business leaders are trying to understand and communicate at a better level while we manage work from home and remote teams. I think you've got to have that in a business. If you can't communicate, it doesn't matter what platform you're using, Trello or Jira or Confluence or whatever it is to implement your work strategies. If you can't just simply have a conversation, a constructive conversation that also welcomes criticism, you've got to be able to take criticism and implement that and pivot on that. That's when you're going to start seeing the best results with any sort of teamwork.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. And you got to take the little cues. Right. So it goes both ways, is that if you're starting, if you're using Jira, using Slack or whatever, a message can come across as aggressive or, you know, just, you know, out of sorts. And you can get offended or you can clarify it quickly because it often mean nothing. But at the same time, the tricky part of remote is you don't see those little cues around the office. You know, what was the mood like when this person walked? Are they putting headphones on at their desk because they're feeling a little bit, you know, overwhelmed? You're not getting all those little cues. So you've got to exactly, like you said, when you're on with them remotely, really be on and really trying to Pick up those little cues that you would get elsewhere. So it takes a little bit more work but it's all doable.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, I agree. And yeah, coming unstuck with communication is obviously one of the biggest, biggest pain points I guess for any business, whether that be with suppliers, customers, staff, is that communication. And I think that kind of dovetails into what I want to cover off with you mate, is I've always picked up a lot of nuggets out of your add to cart with mistakes people have made and being vulnerable and all of that. So I think I'd like to ask you, in your experience and looking back across your working career now add to cart E suite and even 12 High Super Retail Group. Looking back, what were some key mistakes I guess you've made either within your role or within yourself that you've gone, shit, could have done that better or should have done that better that have burnt you in the past.
Nathan Bush: Oh, do we have another hour?
Tom Hinser: Don't get started.
Nathan Bush: Look, I think there's a few that if you want to go to a real practical level, really practical, sometimes I just didn't know my numbers and I think as someone who's creative strategy thinking, you know, 12 months ahead, if you leave today behind, if you don't know your main numbers, then you'll get caught out real quick. And just especially when you're playing big games, if you get put on the spot and you can't talk to what's happening today operationally, you can't get the trust and the buy in for the long term vision. So you've got to have today under control before you can talk about tomorrow.
Tom Hinser: Absolutely. And I think the numbers game is such a hard one as well because I guess when it clicks you're like, oh shit, how did I get that so wrong? But when you're wearing so many different hats yourself as a founder, myself as a founder, sometimes knowing your numbers and knowing your metrics is actually quite hard to understand. We've had a lot of help from Jason Andrews. Shout out to Jason. I know he's been on the podcast before and he gives great guy, great content around operational finance is what he calls it. And that's word that I'm probably going to get tattooed on me somewhere one day. Whereabouts on my forehead. I think just so it sinks in. Yeah, one takeaway I would really heavily recommend and you know, if you're sitting there now going, I don't really know what my profit margin is or that's you, you need to, you need to understand that and however long it takes, just crack on with it.
Nathan Bush: But I'd also say too, it's not also the founder's job to do, I think, work out what you're responsible for and know what numbers are important. You don't need to know every number. You need to know, say, three to five key numbers that you can always keep your finger on, whether you're in marketing, whether in tech, whether you're in, you know, leading an organization. But if you can't speak to numbers, then you're going to get caught out and you're going to lose trust and not to be able to do the cool shit that you want to do.
Tom Hinser: Now, mate, fast forward. Let's. We've covered all the history of math and push fast forward. So you've got E Suite at hand at the moment.
Nathan Bush: Yep.
Tom Hinser: You've got an office in Melbourne, you've got a small team around you. It sounds like it's going great and you're loving it. What does the next three years look like for yourself?
Nathan Bush: Goodness me. As a strategist, I'm horrible at planning what my next three years are. So, look, the focus is 100% E Suite and add to cart. So they're my two focuses. So I think both have so much amazing opportunity with E Suite. Obviously we want to continue the recruitment. So important to have the right people in the right roles, but we also want to play a huge role in helping bring talent into the industry and showing people how they can keep moving through the industry. So that's a real focus for me. And yeah, like I said, we've got something really exciting dropping in November, which will probably announce around September, which we're super pumped about. So that's, that's, you know, there's more than enough there to keep us going. And for ADD to cart, I just want to grow this community more. To me, the podcast is one thing, but it's just a small part of what this can be like to. It's. It's about. We've got all these listeners out there and the growth over the last 12 months has been phenomenal. It's just been so good to see get traction because podcasts are a funny beast in that when you start it, you're going, oh, 20 listens a day. That's not much. Especially when you come up from an E commerce background where you're looking at, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of visitors and, you know, big numbers, you get to podcast. Oh, and it takes a long time to build up because all you're trying to do is get people to hit that subscribe button and almost develop a relationship with them. But a podcast by itself is a one sided relationship. You know, we get to record this, but then how do we actually do the follow up? How do we make a bit of a conversation out of this? So that's a real focus for me is how do we build these communities both virtually and potentially in real life once we can. So.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, I agree. And then who would be your just circling back to add to CART there? Who would be your three top dogs that you'd want to have on here that you haven't had yet?
Nathan Bush: I don't, I don't necessarily have people. Like I said, some of the best conversations happen with people that would never expect it and some of the worst ones have been with people that I was really nervous about meeting.
Tom Hinser: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: So I don't do that. But what I am really interested in is speaking to more diverse background people. Like as a white, hopefully I don't think I'm middle aged yet, but I'm probably getting there. White, middle aged, male. I've got a network that's probably very similar, you know, that's just naturally where you fall. And I really want to bring more diverse people onto the show. Like for me, I make a real effort to try and reach out to, you know, female founders, female leaders. I'd love to get more indigenous e commerce leaders. Like there's all these stories out there and that I really want to help bring to life. So to me, add to cart's just about showing all the different ways that we can do E commerce and all the. There's not one playbook. Right. And just being able to help people get inspiration and action from all different sources. Pick and choose what you like out of it. You're not going to agree with everything. Not everything's going to be for you. But hey, there's more than one way to do this.
Tom Hinser: Yeah, absolutely, mate. Agree. Agree totally. And again, congrats on delivering such good content to the listeners and on that. Nathan, how's the. What's the best way for people to get in contact with you or to connect with you? Whether it's via or whether it's for add to CART or if it's for E suite. If they've got some employment or some talent, what's the best way to connect with yourself?
Nathan Bush: Yeah, great. So for both E Suite we're always looking for. If you're in the market for a new job. Absolutely. Reach out to us. If you're Looking for help building your team, whether that be actually people in there or you just need an opinion on how to go about that, contact me via LinkedIn or Nathan sweettalent.com and for add to Cart, we're always looking for new guests. So if you've got a great story to tell, if you want to come on and have a chat, reach out, don't be shy. Find a lot of people are really shy about approaching me and then when I approach them they're going, oh, I was hoping you'd ask me. I'm like, just give me a note. You know, I always love hearing from people. And then also if you are interested in partnering on Add to Cart, let me know. We're always looking for new partners. We're loving having Shopify and Signet with us for so long but, but we've got other opportunities like the explainer episodes, so. And then if you're a listener, I always love hearing from listeners around episodes they liked episodes they didn't like. Like I said, I don't want this to be a one way conversation, so don't hesitate. LinkedIn's probably the best way, but otherwise. Nathan.com yeah, beautiful.
Tom Hinser: Nice mate. And I guess for anyone listening that, yeah, like want to pick my brain a little bit further about stuff I've touched on as well. LinkedIn's always the best way. Add me on LinkedIn or otherwise. If you need to shoot me an email tomrpoolman.com and just like Bushy here, I would be more than happy to share any sort of nuggets that I can with anyone else that's, you know, facing challenges or even just the ear to listen to. You know, if anyone's got any questions, challenges that they face, like hit me up, hit Bushy up.
Nathan Bush: Love to have a chat and I can't recommend it. You'll get the no BS version of Tom if you go direct. I love it.
Tom Hinser: I've kept this pod pretty sensitive.
Nathan Bush: It's been awesome, mate. Congratulations on the, the hosting role. I think, you know, you can have a regular gig if you want. Yeah.
Tom Hinser: Oh mate, now I'll hand it back over to you for the next episode but mate, thank you very much, Pushy for having me on and as always providing so much value and content to the listeners. So mate, thank you very much.
Nathan Bush: Thanks Tom. It's been fun.
Tom Hinser: After Nat and I did our pot with Bushy on Mr. Poor man, I got off the call thinking, shit, what about Bushy? What's his story? This is the reason why I wanted to put a spin on Add to Cart, not only to return the favor, but for all listeners to hear Nathan's story. A great takeaway would be to give, give, give. Especially in these challenging times where you may have a skill, an asset or wealth, however you value it, that could greatly help someone or give them the inspiration they need to keep on grinding. Pay it forward. I love Nathan's approach of always being honest with yourself and your audience as we both agree this will always pay the best ROI for all you marketing nerds out there. I also like when Nathan talks about the lessons he's learned. These are parts of the business that everyone can relate to and while it's important that we share the success of all businesses, I feel we need to see more vulnerability in our digital ecosystem as the mistakes that are shared could give the listener the golden nugget they really need. Thanks for listening to my takeover on the Add to Cart podcast. Bushy will be back in his usual seat next episode. I'm Tom Hintzer from Mr. Poolman Happy Swimming.
Nathan Bush: To finish up, I have three resources for you. Firstly, if you're a first time listener of Add to Cart and you want to stay up to date with me new episodes, head over to addtocart.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll let you know every time a new episode drops as well as giving you my three takeaways from each episode and a link to the transcripts so you can know that this is an episode that you want to dive straight into. Secondly, if you want a weekly roundup of the best e commerce case studies, tools and research, sign up to the Hi5 Friday newsletter which is delivered to inboxes at 8am every Friday morning. I read all the e commerce news and send you the bits that I think you can take action from. Sign up at 12 high 12 h I g h.com au hi 5 and the last thing if you are looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, head over to E Suite. We are a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands. Check it out. Sign up to the email and get in touch with me if you want to discuss your next move. Until next time, thanks for listening and keep those customers adding to Cart.
