[Voiceover]: Welcome to the checkout. We catch up with previous guests of Add to Cart where we ask them five quick questions to understand more about them and leave you with a little extra inspiration to get through your Friday. Today's mini episode features Carl Hartman, who is the co founder and director at non alcoholic drink company Liars. Lyers has won multiple tasting awards and recently raised $16 million in capital to continue their expansion across 11 countries. Carl is also the co founder of talent intelligence platform Shortlister and was the co founder of fulfillment aggregator and intelligence platform Tomondo. Carl, what is the weirdest thing you have ever bought online?
Carl Hartmann: Weirdest thing? I don't think I've ever bought anything too crazy, but probably the. The least everyday item was a stern anchor for my boat.
[Voiceover]: A stern anchor? What are we talking about? Stern anchors? I've got no idea. No, no.
Carl Hartmann: So, well, you get your bow anchor, that's the one that's at um. But a stern anchor is one that you put up optionally at the back. So if you're in like a high current area, you can basically stop the bum of the boat from swinging in the way that you don't want to do it. So you can kind of like leave it straight against the current. So I figured that was heavy and, you know, fairly enough. They sell everything online now.
[Voiceover]: Assume you don't just go onto ebay
Carl Hartmann: and buy one now, you go to a boat supplier's website. But okay, yeah, that's probably the, I guess, most unique thing.
[Voiceover]: Good stuff. Who is your favorite retailer?
Carl Hartmann: Aside from liars, of course. Given our retailer now, probably Amazon. I think just because I'm always amazed on the scale of business they built globally and I think just the detail they go to in thinking about their customer, you know, everything from, you know, payments to returns to notifications, it's just such a seamless experience.
[Voiceover]: And you've seen it from a different angle to most in Australia in that you've lived in the US and you've seen how dominant it is, right?
Carl Hartmann: Totally. I think a lot of people dismiss Amazon in Australia, but just wait because they've executed this playbook in every country and it takes time to build the level of maturity, but they'll get there because they know what they're doing and they have lots of resources. But having lived in the US for a number of years, honestly, it just becomes the default experience. You go onto Amazon, you search for the thing you want. If you don't find it, then you untick the prime box, because the prime box is always done by default, particularly in places like San Francisco where you get free to our delivery on most of the key skus. And then only if you don't find something on Amazon do you consider going somewhere else. I mean, that's the default behavior at least half of Americans, I'd say every so often you'll see like a Facebook ad or a Google Ad or something and then you'll go, you'll discover the product that way. But generally when you're thinking about a product, I think Amazon is a huge percentage of initial product searches, which is probably in contrast to Australia today. But you know, just look at the data, the growth, growth there. It'll happen. As it gets more mature, it'll happen.
[Voiceover]: Number three, which retail fad do you wish was history?
Carl Hartmann: I don't know if this is much a fad, but obviously the other day having to go to the Apple store and get my temperature checked and put on a PPE mask and gloves and everything else in Queensland where there's no community Covid transition, that's definitely not top of my favorite retail experiences. So I look forward to there being a vaccine and or being able to normally shop and enter stores again.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, and it's funny, isn't it, that Apple are the ones that are really strict around this and for good reason because they're rolling out throughout the world, but their stores are all about experience and it's just that it really clashes, doesn't it just hard experience when you're going through all going in and you're
Carl Hartmann: manhandling the latest iPhone 12 or Apple Watch 6 and God forbid you are COVID positive and next thing you know there's a community outbreak. I'm sure that's the reason they do these things because they don't want the bad PR that would come with it.
[Voiceover]: Oh no, it's all for good reasons.
Carl Hartmann: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: Number four, can you recommend a book or a podcast that our listeners should immediately get into?
Carl Hartmann: I think one recent one that I have read a couple of years ago, but I think it's a good lesson is one called the Hard Things About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. So he's one of the founders of Andreessen Horowitz and there's this whole chapter about being a peacetime CEO as a wartime CEO. And I think that's just something that's always resonated with me, as in there are people that are great at running businesses that are mature and there's people that are great when it's tough and it's a startup and it's an entrepreneurial adventure. But, yeah, I think that's a great one to read, if you haven't already read it.
[Voiceover]: And I think I know the answer, but where do you put yourself in those two camps?
Carl Hartmann: I'm actually a wartime CEO. Like, give me the bombs and the chaos and the challenge. And I love it, to be honest. If something is about managing for EBIT at 0.1% every just, I'm bored. I'd be bored. Next challenge, someone else business whose career at that, it's, you know, their kettle of fish. Because, I don't know, I like that. I like the fun of building and scaling and, you know, it's like I say, business is my sport. It's my primary sport. Right. Like, I don't know, I just enjoy seeing something come to life and all the challenges and adventures. It's not easy. It's not for everyone and has its ups and downs like a yo, yo. But I think the. What you can get out of building something and watching that, you know, it's. It's a very unique experience.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, Cool. All right, that was the Hard Things About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. Finish this sentence. The future of retail is.
Carl Hartmann: Oh, I think it's just experiences. I think the people that can offer experiences in their product or enable experiences. I mean, whether it's the Apple Store at normal times or, you know, in our case of liars, being able to teach people how to make their first cocktail, even if it doesn't have alcohol, or teach them how to enable mindful drinking, I think ultimately, if your product can enable a new experience, people are just craving those. And that's the whole way people like to shop now and experience products.
[Voiceover]: Beautiful. Well, Carl, it must be time to go check the weather and get out there.
Carl Hartmann: Hey, you're not wrong,
[Voiceover]: mate. Thank you very much for joining us. We'll leave it there.
Carl Hartmann: Thanks, mate.
[Voiceover]: Add to CART is hosted and distributed through acast, the home of podcasting. It wasn't until I started this podcast that I realized how powerful podcasts are in creating real connections with listeners. I love when listeners contact me and speak to me like we're lifelong friends. And I know this carries over to our advertising partners. My relationship becomes their relationship, and because I value my listeners above all, I only partner with brands I'd recommend as a friend. It's kind of like influencer marketing, but without having to see me in a swimsuit. So if you're looking to explore the power of podcast advertising for your brand, you should check out Acast Acast hosts over 20,000 podcasts, a mix of amazing local and international content, and can deliver credible mentions to an engaged listener in an uncluttered environment. Check out ACAST Advertising on Google Today to hear more from Carl and his adventures, jump back into episode 29, where we speak to Carl about why you need a triple redundancy plan for your fulfillment, how Amazon helped launch Liars, and why the first thing he does every day is check the weather. Thanks for listening, and until next time, keep adding to cartoon.
