[Voiceover]: And it all goes back to childhood because resistance to change is the result of our mindset. I believe that every single person at some point of their life will have a one million dollar idea. But unless those skills are consistently practiced and implemented and improved, there is no long term result. Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers. You need to know in the fast
Nathan Bush: moving world of online retail.
[Voiceover]: Here's your host, Bushy.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome back to add to CART, the very last full interview for 2024. My name is Bushy and I'm joining you from the land of the terrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. Now, like I said, it is the last episode of the year and we have a really special one for you which by itself might not seem like it is e commerce specific, but I was fascinated by this one because I think it will have a direct impact on the future leaders and entrepreneurs in our industry in 10 to 15 years time. Plus, if you are a parent you will definitely want to tune in to take some tips on how our children are going to learn skills that they will actually use in life. Today we are in conversation with Elena Cherik, an inspiring leader who is shaping young minds as the owner of the Australian arm of Mini Business School with Mini Boss operating in over 20 countries, Elena has taken the reins here in Australia to equip the next generation with entrepreneurial skills and creative problem solving techniques that aren't taught in the traditional curriculum. From leading high stakes transition projects at companies like Virgin, KPMG and Deloitte, Elena has pivoted her career to guide kids as young as eight to think, act and dream like entrepreneurs. Whether it's learning how to launch a business, tackle fear of failure, or prepare for a future where AI and creativity and meet, Elena is all in on equipping these future leaders with the tools that they need to thrive. You'll hear today Elena's passion for creativity and how it is taught, her vision for fostering a fearless mindset in kids and how she's turning real world mentorships with e commerce legends like Simon Beard, founder of Culture Kings, into transformative experiences for her students. I think this episode is a must listen for anyone who wants to future proof their thinking. I know it's targeted towards kids, but I got so many great tips on how to help unleash my own creativity and think bigger than what I might do in the day to day and a great chance to rewire our own brains on how we've been taught to think. And again, if you've got kids. This is a great one to think about what they're being taught in school and what other skills they might need for their future. As I mentioned at the start, this is our last full length episode before we take a break for 2024, but keep an eye out over the next few weeks. We're going to have a few special episodes coming up, including a countdown of the most downloaded podcasts from this year, as well as my selection of the best conversations from the year. And of course, if you're missing us all too much over the holidays, come and join the Add to Cart Learning Community Campus for free. Head on over to add to cart.com campus. You'll see a whole bunch of inspirational articles, meet some great people, get involved in some e commerce conversations. We'd love to see you there. Now I know I'm pushing the love in how long this intro is, but I want to say a few quick thank yous to for making this year so amazing on Add to Cart. Firstly, I want to thank our partners, but especially our gold and silver partners, Shopify, Deliver In Person, Convert Digital, Amassis, Farsight, Impact.com and TikTok. It's incredible to have all of you on board such amazing names in the e commerce space. You have enabled us to do what we love this year and it's been a pleasure to work with you. Thank you so much for your support. I also want to thank the Add to Cart team and this includes Gil, our amazing audio engineer at the Podcast Boss, the teams at the Big Smoke and Expressway for your amazing support, and of course Amy, our wonderful producer who was with us for most of the year. You guys are all brilliant and you make me look really good. But most of all, I want to thank all of you who listen, especially the 190 odd of you who had Add to Heart as their number one podcast in Spotify this year. Just incredible. After doing this for five years, it still gives me such an amazing sense of warmth and gratitude. When I meet people for the first time and they say that they're regular listeners or that they made a new connection through the pod, or that the POD helped them grow their business. It's really, really special. In 2025, my goal is to not only connect with you more, but also to connect you all together. So stay tuned for that. But for now I just want to say thank you. I love what I get to do on a weekly basis and it's amazing that thousands of you enjoy it as well. So thank you very much for continuing to listen let's get into this episode with Elena. A big thanks as always to our partners at Shopify plus and Deliver in person for making this episode possible. Now let's jump into my chat with Elena Charik, school director of Miniboss Business School Australia.
Nathan Bush: Elena, welcome to ADD to cart.
[Voiceover]: Oh, thank you, Nathan. I am so happy to be here. Very excited.
Nathan Bush: I'm so excited for this episode. It is, to be honest with anyone who is listening, it is a bit of a left turn from most of our e commerce centric episodes. But I think it is so important for how we foster talent and how we create pathways in E commerce, which is something that I'm truly passionate about and I can't wait to get your take on it today. So, Elena, tell us, who are you and what do you do?
[Voiceover]: Okay, so I am Elena Chidic and I am the owner and the franchisee of the Australian branches Miniboss Business School. So it's an international education network, minibosses in more than 20 countries around the world. The head office is in the UK and I'm the person for all. So I have come from very different background. So I started miniboss only four years ago, but before then for over 20 years I was actually in it. And that's probably a little bit part of my story, how I came to that. In my childhood I was very creative person but my parents were very pragmatic and they were saying whatever I was thinking about creativity, it's not going to pay your bills. You have to choose a career that is potentially lucrative, where you can stand on your own feet. So that's where initially I chose finance because my dad was saying banks and taxes are forever, so that's guaranteed job. And then I came to Australia almost 25 years ago and at that time it was popular. So I thought, well, following the same path, you know, following the dollar, I should go to it. And that's where more than 25 years of my life have spent. But then I guess coming to not midlife crisis, but there is a point in life of probably every human being where we start thinking what's the point of it all? And even though I had very successful career, have worked for hp, kpmg, Deloitte, Virgin, there was a little bit emptiness because I was making richer people richer, so wanted to find a little bit more purpose. And again, how I have worked on large transformation programs. So they started usually early in my career in it, but then it's business transformation, business renovation, how I also called it. And there was a lot of Change and resistance. And when you try to implement a big change particularly quickly, there would be a lot of very unhappy people. And it's challenging, constantly dealing, you know, with the flashback, with resistance, trying to push the brick wall. And that's when I started thinking about what the problem is, how to sort it. And it all goes back to childhood. Because resistance to change is the result of our mindset and changing mindset, particularly when we are over 20, 30 or so, it's very hard. Unless a person really wants to change it. There is no way on earth anybody can you change the way you think. So that's why all the roots all goes back to childhood. And that's why I've decided I have to do something about it.
Nathan Bush: And in your career, because you just kind of rattled off some pretty big names there pretty quickly. Kpmg, Deloitte, Virgin, some big businesses. When you're talking about transformation, when you talked about that resistance to change, was there some common behaviors or traits that you saw in a corporate setting that you were like, I just wish we could get that out of us in an early age?
[Voiceover]: Well, from the corporate world, it probably changes depending on who my client was. So for example, my probably most happiest experience was working for Virgin while in the earlier days when it was still Virgin Blue, not Virgin Australia. That spirit of, you know, here is an idea, let's do it. Absolutely loved it. We're working, for example, through I A KPHG for federal government was complete opposite. So the main thing is really working with people who got affected by change. So it's probably from that perspective relevant which organization I worked for or what change I was delivering. It was when, well, the masses of the organization had to relearn how they do things, start new processes, learn new systems, systems, organizational structure, change their position description, responsibility, all that fear. And that's where that resistance of unknown and fear of loss, basically that risk adverseness in general, that is probably the number one reason why most people are unhappy in their lives. Because unfortunately, when they get to a certain position, when there is something to lose, when there is something to lose, we are afraid to lose it. And at that point, to be honest, it doesn't really matter how good it is. But when we can lose, even if it's not that good, but we can lose, it makes us very, very fearful and resistant. And again, that is a mindset.
Nathan Bush: I can imagine that we have a lot of listeners right now nodding along in their car or on their run or wherever they are because they, especially in E Commerce we have so many professionals who are so good at their job in E commerce, like you said, making other people a lot of money. And most have ideas in the back of their head for the idea that they would like to run with in their own business. But it is that risk averseness which holds many people back. And we see and we've had great interviews with people who have had to face that point in their lives where they do take that risk, where they kind of go all in on something. And that seems to be the hardest hurdle for most in E commerce as founders to get over.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. Well, I say it very often that I believe that every single person at some point of their life will have a $1 million idea, but only very, very few percent of people would have the courage to do something about it. And unfortunately not all of those who follow their dream and passion would be successful straight away. So some do fall back and that is a real risk. So that's probably the main reason, the main value of my program. It's when kids start making those mistakes early and they fall back early. Well, there isn't much to risk for them at that stage. But they learn that it's okay if something doesn't work out, that life actually does not end even if you lose money. So that's probably the important hurdle to overcome in early childhood so that later in life those risks will not be perceived as big, as high, as dangerous.
Nathan Bush: Oh, I love that. I love that. And I suppose the other side of that too is making sure you pick the right million dollar idea, not the $1 idea.
[Voiceover]: Yes, absolutely. Market testing, super important.
Nathan Bush: So take me back to that time. So you call it a midlife crisis, let's call it a midlife leveling up. What was the moment where you said, all right, I'm going to go all in? I've heard about Mini Boss School. Tell me, how did that come about from your career in corporate and all the amazing transformation roles that you've had to the moment that you decided, yes, I'm going to go all in on Mini Boss School?
[Voiceover]: Well, very often a big change in life calls for the reevaluation of it. And I became a mot. And as a natural consideration, what do I do? Do I want to go back to the corporate world? Well, it's not nine to five, you know, I've been at the director position, so it's probably like 80 hours per week. Doesn't matter where you are, office or home. And that's where I started. Well, started considering what my life would be as a mother, how much time I would dedicate to my child. And I've decided to do something else. And luckily I had a wonderful experience experience of mentoring teenagers through the Smith Family foundation around 20 odd years ago and the couple of last experiences. So it was kind of one on one mentoring over a year and it was so rewarding. I can't even explain how amazing it was. I always tell that I probably got out from that experience more than those kids, even though they were very grateful and I saw progress, it was rewarding. But I got out of more. And that's where I started thinking I want to do something for kids to prepare them for real, for the real world, for life. Because during that experience mentoring kids, I've realized how limited we are to the experiences of our parents and to our immediate network. As kids we don't have another view, another perspective. It's just our parents and their friends. These are the people who mold us, mold the whole future for us. So that's why it's what Smith Family foundation is doing. There are other programs. It's absolutely incredible and so valuable. It's like a window of opportunities opening in kids lives, giving them another view of possible futures. And that's what I wanted to do. And I initially tried to think about my own program, but I reconnected with my old friend. So we actually studied, we did finance and now PhDs in the 90s together, but then went different paths. So I contacted her because I knew that she has this miniboss school and that's the time when she told me all about it and absolutely fell in love. It's amazing curriculum, amazing program. That is. Yeah, I'm all in. That's when I've decided that's it, no more consideration. This is what I want to do. This is how I want to make my mark.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. And so this was a global program or this is a global program and you've taken on the Australian. Did they come to you saying hey, we really need to expand into Australia or did you seek them out and say I want to bring this here?
[Voiceover]: No, as I said, I was just chatting to my friend, asking her for advice, saying that I want to start this program for teens, preparing them for life. What do you think? Because you're running this and I didn't know really much about miniboss. I just knew that there is some miniboss teaching kids something business obviously because it's called business school. And that's where she suggested Olga, one of the co founders. So her and her husband, it's family business. She's provided, sent me some information, explained how it works and it was me. I just grabbed this opportunity with both hands because what I've learned about this program there is nothing like that.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. So let's talk about the program because I was fascinated when I heard about it and I did a little bit of digging to understand how it works and it's such a cool structure. Can you share with our listeners, kind of set the scene of the kind of children that are involved in the program and then the steps that you take them through in this business school?
[Voiceover]: Yes, of course. So the easiest way, I love using analogies. So the analogy I use for that it's like an Olympic program in business.
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[Voiceover]: So that's very important to set those expectations because I have parents who inquire, oh, I want my kids to learn financial literacy or they have this idea they just need some help to launch a business that's not us what we do. If you're serious, if you want your child to be, you know, successful no matter what they do financially, have that drive, motivation, be business owner, entrepreneur, this is for them. And because of that it's not just school holidays, not one year program, it's eight year program. And the idea again, that's how our brain learns and develops. So you know, if we learn a language and I've experienced experience that going to another country immersive environment, you can spend even three months there and you significantly improve your language skills but you still probably can't write poetry, you still probably can't understand certain nuances. You will never be even heard as a native. And more importantly when you come back and you stop practicing, all of those skills deteriorate. So I used to speak in German and Italian, Japanese, I speak none of those because I haven't practiced. The same with business business. So even though parents and it's fantastic, there are lots of wonderful initiatives. I encourage everyone who is mildly interested for kids in business go and explore all of them because it gives really boost, it creates motivation. But unless those skills are consistently practiced and implemented and improved, there is no long term result. So that's why the program has those eight courses.
Nathan Bush: So talk me through some of the different ages or milestones. So if you've got the younger kids going through business school, what are some of the skills that you're teaching them about business at the younger age versus when they've gone through that eight year journey to be at the end of it? What are some of the skills you're teaching at that upper end?
[Voiceover]: So that is already when a person comes to a profession, you teach them basics and you give them practice. And that is the eight year Mini Boss. There is also actually Big Boss. So that's the next stage. I don't have the licenses in Australia yet or haven't thought about it yet because for me children is the most important. So then there is, it's more of becoming more professional. It's fine tuning, it's you know, first you go get a medical degree and then you do decide if you want to be neurosurgeon to pediatrician or whatever it is, cardiologist. So that's kind of the further finessing and specialization where miniboss is getting that generic well rounded. There is a unique IP as well that mini boss developed. It's called 8Q. So 8 intelligences, you know IQ, intellectual quotient is well what we consider as the way to measure people's intelligence. There is emotional quotient relatively popular. While in Mini Boss we say to be successful you need another six intelligences and like to be teacher, to be manager, to be entrepreneur. That risk averseness from the physical intellect. Very important because we are in our body if we don't sleep, if you don't exercise, our brain by itself can't function. So it's like a complex system holistic approach. So that's where we over eight years we are just building, layering a cake layer by layer by layer. So that all of those skills and most importantly practical activities because apart from the curriculum that kids go through and they learn and we can't again very different to regular school. We have business incubator. So we help kids come up with business ideas they're really passionate about and then we coach them. We coach them. We have our own Shark Tank, we have mentors, Master classes, championships, the next championship just in four weeks away preparing, that's when kids are launching. So right now, this month, Kinta launching their businesses and they learn from the practical experiences what it is to start and run a business. It doesn't matter how many books you can read about startups or leadership or any of that. You have to have to do that to really get it. And that's where the greatest value comes.
Nathan Bush: I love that you incorporate real world mentors into your program. I saw that you have, you've had Simon Beard as one of your judges on one of your Shark Tank activities, which all of us in the world of E commerce will know. Tell us about some of the mentors that you've had join to help upskill your students because that must be mind blown for some of the kids coming through to have access to real world successful entrepreneurs like that.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And I can't tell you how grateful I am to every single business owner entrepreneur who becomes a part of the journey, especially for kids. Parents have also praised the kind of people their kids get exposed to. It's that's probably even a greater value than the program. So yeah, Simon was amazing judge. So that was startup championship last year or the year before and he jokes that kids are there to eat his lunch and he needs to pick up his game. So yeah, kids are very talented. Probably one mentor I keep coming back to on a regular annually. So that was former CEO of Nude by Nature, MC Thompson. So he's been supporting miniboss for a number of years in various capacities as a mentor. So he was working with one student who wanted to launch her skin care products for teenagers. And that's where the mentoring there was about product development and the lesson that he shared with her. And then I was repeating for with number of other students is hero product. Because very often when we want to launch a product, we want to launch multiple versions straight away and this and that and well the new by nature's journey and their success is based on pick one, the most popular, the most basic as well. So that, that's your staple, that's your landmark and focus on that and then you can explore the market and Grow the potential. So but that is related to product launch. We have businesses, absolutely incredible different businesses. So the last one that comes into my mind, one of my students loves I think FPV drones. So it's not the regular drones, but they are free. The 3D glasses, I think the term is FP. And the mentor we found is the founder of the leading Australian drone company. So in Sydney they organizing the drone show for the New Year's Eve. So that is the leader who is mentoring my student. And there again the value of mentorship. Because what we can prepare our kids with is how to put a business has planned together, develop marketing strategies, launch all of that. We don't have the industry expertise. So for example, with Iggy, who is preparing these services, it's educating kids on how to operate essentially drones. What expertise he got was to investigate video filming. Because how you sell your services is by showing amazing footages. So that's for example, I would have never thought about it. But there that's where the industry expertise comes in play that those skills have to be complementary. You can't really have a successful drone business if you don't have amazing videos. So. And many look, we had dozens. We already at the fourth year, so definitely maybe even coming close to hundred of mentors and masterclass presenters who have helped us. The last one, sorry for non stop, probably most impressive was again a little bit left field, Lisa Blair. So Lisa Blair is the world champion. So she's the person who sailed around Antarctica in the shortest period of time. And also she's the first woman who's done that. And she has another four or in total five world records. So what's sailing to do with entrepreneurship? Right. But her masterclass was absolutely amazing because I actually overheard her when I was in the boat show in Sydney. She was speaking from the stage and I had to make sure I meet her personally. It's the perseverance, the story of when you're faced with a challenge, with the problem and everything seems to be falling apart. And she has been in the situations when she nearly died and she could have died if she's given up. So that is probably the most important quality any entrepreneur needs to have because there would be situations where we feel things are not going ahead and it's much easier to quit. But if we quit, we'll never know what's on the other side.
Nathan Bush: And are you seeing your child entrepreneurs, let's call them that, child entrepreneurs launching these businesses straight away while they might still be in school or is it forming the frameworks for them to launch post school.
[Voiceover]: Very good question. And I'm clarifying the expectations with parents every time. So imagine that you do want to have your child to run a marathon. You're not going to get them to run a marathon straight away. And when they do, you don't expect them to be one of the first. So even completion of the process, that's considered success. So similarly with my students, kidpreneurs, so they do go through the full cycle of launching the business, but we look at those businesses as projects, four to six months projects. So they're launching it. So right now in a calendar year terms, they're launching businesses right now after the championship in December, they expected to run those businesses by themselves. It's, you know, when we teach kids to learn how to ride a bike, we push them and hold them, but then at some point we let go and they need to keep pedaling. So that happens for a couple of months until we restart the year in February. And then they have a choice. They still have to run for a couple of months to cover the costs to break even and hopefully make some profits. Or they can choose to do another business. And in most cases we encourage next year, let's do another business. It's another industry. You're working with different personalities in a team. You choose different roles. One year a kid can be cfo. Next year they're cmo. Third year they look after operations and they learn from experience what it's like and they learn. One year they launch a product. Next year they design and deliver services. Third year something else, maybe a combination of both. So that's where the valuable experience counts. It's probably not from there shouldn't be an expectation that any of those businesses will be multimillion dollar business. This is a learning process. However, I do have a few students who really fall into place with their chosen business idea and they run that business for many years. So one of the businesses want to mention I have an incredible student in Perth, Brody. So he started with me three years and because it's in Perth, so it's virtual education online program. I remember an interview with him and he was so shy at nine years of age, he would not, even though it was on Zoom, you know, I wasn't a real person, it was just some picture on the screen. But he would find a cushion and he would hide behind a cushion and he would be vocalizing whatever answers to his mom and mom basically was speaking to me. He was so shy. Three years later. So. Well, it's now one year ago during last summer holidays he was at the market every Sunday selling his products. He gave interviews to local paper. I think ABC was also interviewing him. He was presenting the two day NDIS Expo. He was the presenter, the business owner on the stand and constantly talking and talking and talking to people, his people promoting, talking to strangers. Transformation is incredible and he loves his product.
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Nathan Bush: Why?
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Nathan Bush: And sorry, what was his product?
[Voiceover]: So their brand is called Ultra Zips and it is inclusive swimwear. So these are special shorts which have a zipper on the side. So even though his original idea was for just little kids who get into tantrums because it's a bit too hard to take off wet swimmers, but what we've realized there is a need and a niche in the disability sector and that's where his product is in demand. So right now he is selling his products in pharmacies, so he is in retail, but it took him three years gradual step.
Nathan Bush: Do you find that there is a natural difference in the way that children approach problems from a creativity point of view than we as adults? Because I think as adults we have the benefit of hindsight, lessons and probably intuition. We've seen a few more patterns before, but kids are coming to new ideas and solutions a bit more fresh and probably a little bit more open to solutions. What can we learn from kids in how we solve problems?
[Voiceover]: Creativity in kids and I particularly find it up to the age of 12, so primaries. I can tell when I interview a kid, even if not knowing the age, even if it's blindfold, not even seeing them. I can tell if they're high school or primary school, something happens to their creativity and I know what, I can explain how. But when kids are still Young, they have no fear. So their creativity. And that's where I will jump ahead a little bit and I will mention Sir Ken Robinson's talk TED talk on do school skill creativity. And he very well explains why it is so. And I highly recommend every parent to listen to this TED talk. There was a study, I think, I think it was facilitated by or for NASA every five years. So at the age of five every kid when you test them for divergent thinking, so that's basically creativity ability to come up with new solutions, they rank at the genius level at the age of five, every five years after that their creativity halves. So that's why they've done that longitudinal to test. So at the age of 10 kids are half as creative at the end of as at the age of 5. At the age of 15 they are half as creative as at the age of 10 and so on. And there is a reason for that. So from the. Well, unfortunately that's life and partially it is how our brain develops so neuron connections in our brain that they start decreasing from the age of three. So at the age of three we are at the peak of the number of neuron corrections in our brain. And that's where kids potentially don't know the difference between fairytale world and any imaginary world. And real, they have potentially imaginary friends and all of that. And that is one of the reasons because they have the whole world, they're learning the whole world and it's all one for them. But then from that age it's called pruning. So parts of the neuron connections they die out. And that's where parents and schools play a significant role in which of those neuro connections die. And every time child hears no, no, don't do that, no, that part of the brain gets blocked, basically put in a box. And unfortunately our schools instead of promoting creativity they put kids. So this is the right solution and this is the only way you can achieve it. And you have to remember and learn this solution. And that's one of the problems. While schools are not helping in creativity and kids are incredible. So that's why I love working with kids up to the age of 12. They're happy and our classes is more of a conversation. Why do you think so can somebody come up with an idea that it's all creative kind of brainstorming to a degree and things they come up with is so much fun and so enjoyable. And these are the like muscles in their brain that we train to be creative.
Nathan Bush: Are there any techniques that you think that we can use in professional life, call it professional. Whether we are entrepreneurs working in a big company to help slow down that creative aging process and to incorporate now life so that we can be more creative. Open the brain up to more creative thinking.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. So that's everything to do with neuroplasticity. So the brain is not dead, it's not stiff, but it can be inflexible if it got trained over years or decades to be that way. So the earlier, it's, you know, it's like we are growing a tree. And if we put certain limitations later in life, even if we remove the limitations, it's very hard to expect big growth. That's why it's important to start that as early as possible. There is plethora of material online on how to increase your creativity. The simple things. I even talk to my students about it. While you're brushing your teeth, quickly think about 15 completely unrelated things. So before I even go into the details of the exercise, what is creativity is solving problems in the most statistically unusual or unique rare way. So rather than, again, following the patterns, that's what our brain naturally gravitates to. Here is a pattern. And then we repeat it and it goes on autopilot. That's development of habits. So instead of that, if we want to increase our creativity, we need to be observant and very conscious of our thoughts. So while we are brushing our teeth, we need to think about 15 unrelated things. For example, starting with the toothbrush and then camel and then rocket and then whatever comes into my mind. And it's actually very hard. So if you are not trained. So the first step is to train our brain to make big leaps. So rather than standing in our. Staying in our lane and doing the same mundane thing again and again, having the same conversation about the weather and politics and anything, try to jump out every day. You can challenge yourself when you meet your colleague at work. Rather than asking about how the weekend was or day or whatever, ask something random. And try to ask something random every time. First of all, you will get to know the person a lot. But you will also train your brain to start creating new patterns. That's creativity.
Nathan Bush: What's your favorite random question?
[Voiceover]: So with kids, for example, it's very easy. We always start talking about how you're feeling, and there is a variation of how you're feeling. But for me, the rule is I never accept good. Because that is, you know, it's a pattern. Pattern. It's a pattern. You just say it and you don't Mean it and I have no idea how you're feeling. So I put a ban on. Good. Give me other words of how you're feeling. So that is probably from my perspective. Somebody asks me, I try to answer in a different way. So that's my leap.
Nathan Bush: Breaking the patterns, the predetermined responses in your head.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And from professional perspective. So I actually enjoyed that. So While working in IT, I was implementing ERPs and I had experiences more than 20 industries. And that's the part that I loved because you come to manufacturing industry, you come to service industry. The system is the same but how you adapt it is different. So I loved learning about different industries and whatever I gained recognition of patterns. Something worked in this industry. Let's try it here. So that is probably creative solution problem solving. Coming up with creative solutions professionally is by diversifying your experiences and leveraging whatever worked in different areas.
Nathan Bush: Yep. Fantastic. You mentioned there around not letting your kids come back to you with good and talked about the impact of no, no, no responses. If kids want to try things that are outside of the straight and narrow. Obviously you've got a really important role here as a teacher and a leader at miniboss school. But you mentioned also that you're a parent. What are you conscious of in your parenting style that you think might differentiate you to other parents to really open up up your kids minds and opportunities?
[Voiceover]: Well, I don't think that you know, from the moon or somewhere like they're kind of different parents. I just observed and brought again similarly from my IT experience, whatever I've observed the work what works and learn from books and observations. That's what I bring. And actually as part of me boss, I also coach parents on how to support their kids, how to communicate with their kids, how to give them an opportunity to either to be creative or, or responsible or here. So my rule number one and I deliberately became a mother at later part of my life because to me it's very conscious effort. I believe you have to put quite a lot of effort and do it with purpose to be a good parent. I don't believe that it comes naturally. Well, it comes naturally to be nurturing but not bringing up in terms of their education. So my number one rule conscious is I would never say no to my daughter unless it puts her in danger. So unless it's health risk or whatever, some potential physical or whatever risk, I would not say no. And it can be with damage to the material property, that's okay. But that's how she will learn the lesson. The earlier and that's where the important thing is, is that particularly as a mother of one, I can relate to other parents in the similar situation. We try to cotton wool and protect our kids from the, you know, mean big wild world. But the problem is that if we protect them, if we don't expose them to real life situations, and again, I'm not talking about dangerous situation, but real life, they will become less adept and they will be less successful, essentially. So whether it's relationships, whether it's money, whether it's responsibility, you know, household responsibility. So my daughter, from the age of four and five, she earns her pocket money by doing chores. And that is a little incentive so that I don't have to buy all that, you know, plastic crap in supermarket where kids are exposed to. So that I tell her, well, you've got your money, you pay, you buy what you want. So if you want to buy, you go to do some more work. But also responsibilities. So we share. It's not just because I'm a grown up, I have to do all the cleaning and all the things, all the chores are mine. Even though you're little, well, you can do what you can to step up, but we share, we're a team. And these are very important things to teach kids from very early ages because unfortunately, kind of traditional relationship between parents and kids, parents are superior. They also have more responsibilities, but in some ways superior. And for kids, if it goes on into their teenager age, that's where lots of parents have clashes with their teens because there would be this separation, kind of almost hierarchical separation between parents and kids. So we have to start on the same step. Obviously we as parents are responsible, we have to lead. But kids have to feel that they respected, that they're listened to and they are a part of the team.
Nathan Bush: I was going to comment earlier when you were talking about some of the skills and the life skills that you're teaching kids around management and problem solving. I'm like, I'd almost be worried that if I sent my kids to miniboss school, they'd start managing me. They start out strategizing me.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And we had this case. So parents of one of the younger kids. So that's where again, example, when they start really young, the results are much quicker and more obvious. So at his nine years of age, he was already, after two years at miniboss, he started teaching his dad how to run his business and what to do with marketing. And this example I've mentioned with Brody, the Ultra Zip founder. So he's already Doing the same with his parents. So his mom runs her own business and he's already telling her, you need to do this in marketing. And she said that sometimes while I don't get around it, so he gets impatient and just step and does it. And that is the incredible part where A kid, still 12 years of age or he's 13 now, steps in and does without being asked, helps parents. How amazing.
Nathan Bush: I haven't even thought about that as a chore. You know, $5 and you can do my zero finance reconciliations every week. That'd be great.
[Voiceover]: Excellent. They will learn about money and make money on that. Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome.
Speaker D: One of the questions that I wanted
Nathan Bush: to ask you was around the changing nature of how we learn, especially with new technology such as AI. It's something that we've started adopting in our house around especially with the new GPT where it's voice activated and voice responsive. I used it with my daughter Grace the other night in that she was asking to explain synonyms and I had no idea. I could not remember. And so we sat down, I put the phone in the middle of the table, put the chat on and I said, hey, can you explain how synonyms work and talk through it in steps like it was a teacher rather than just giving the answer, which was really great and a good way for her to learn because she could ask it questions and go back and forth. Obviously there's a lot that you have to teach children around the changing nature of work and how we will work with AI. But also there must be a lot that you need to consider in how we learn. Is it hard to get your head around the role that AI will play in not only the future workplace, but also how we will learn new skills?
[Voiceover]: Well, I think AI is a great help there and I have experienced it as a user this year. So Minibus Head Office already automated, virtualized and avatarized all the internal training. So what was delivered early when I started was in person, one on one. So very time intensive and potentially gap apps because it's human, you know, they might forget something, I might forget to ask something. So now the whole training is all based on AI. AI tests AI. So I would have to record a video. AI assesses me whether I've provided right even attitude. So it's quite amazing for kids though. I've used this function as a Google before there was a chat GPT voice activated so my daughter could ask Google on my phone the question even before she could read and write. So she would ask something and similar Sometimes I can't think quickly because with kids speed, it's same as going to the market. Speed is very critical. If you don't give them the answer straight away, five minutes later they're not interested and you've missed an opportunity to teach them about something. So that's why I started using voice activated Google search. And she learned to ask a question and she would get an answer and that's obviously short and succinct. So that is quite important generally AI because kids again are very technology natives. So it's probably for my generation and when I worked on projects we had to write very comprehensive, exhaustive manuals. Click on this button, then you do that, then you open new window. So that was right now kids these days, they don't need this instruction. You just give them the tell them about an app, they will download it, they will learn it, they will figure out how to use it and they will provide you feedback and tell you what's wrong with it. So they are very quick in learning with the help of technology. And AI is fantastic because it provides the answers. Obviously there is lots, particularly recently in the media it becomes more and more topical to discuss the boundaries. So because it's AI, it can lead down the path which is, shouldn't be any normal person wouldn't do that unless they are malicious and you know, then there are criminal consequences. So there is still a lot of guardrails that need to be put there. But generally again it's like everything, you know, nuclear bomb, it was invented, there were some great things, there were some not great things but we didn't really just because there is a risk we're not going to use it. So there is always approach when something new happens. And like AI with such great potential, there are two ways. You either deny and afraid and stand aside or you embrace and take advantage of the positives. And with kids we work on, let's embrace it. So everything new, let's learn about it. So we teach kids how to use AI to generate their logos, how to generate their brand board.
Nathan Bush: Brand guidelines. Yeah, yeah, Brand board, yep.
[Voiceover]: We also encourage them to use ChatGPT to generate social media posts like a set, a series of posts with images and emojis. So let's leverage existing technology to make it easier and better rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Of course again with social media it's very difficult topic because kids underaged, can't use it. But we encourage, we work with parents so parents create a business account for kids and we teach how to Manage that business account because you can't sell without social media platform these days. It's a necessary skill.
Nathan Bush: That's going to be interesting, isn't it? If you've got young entrepreneurs who want to start businesses that are under 16 and some new legislation comes in.
[Voiceover]: Yeah. So that's where again, it's under parents profile. So there is potentially going to be more honors on parents. And at the same time, I'm now trying to think how we can automate it potentially, because there are various apps and tools so that kids would still do that in terms of they would create the social media campaign, so to speak, developing texts, and then we'll just use some tools to upload it. But yeah, with that topic in particular, I'm a bit frustrated with their products. Just banning is not going to solve the problem. Just banning will create more people who will break the rules. There are better ways to deal with it like banning. So my approach on this, you know how kids, when they learn how to drive, when they're ill platers, they have to have somebody with them in the car. We need to have a similar system so that kids learn how to use social media with their parents overseeing control. So, for example, I would want to catch every message. If my daughter decides to text with someone, I would be, you know, kind of policing. But from the perspective that if something inappropriate comes from her side, I need to have a conversation. This is not appropriate to say because xyz and if something comes to her, I can stop it and address it the other way. So that is. That's learning. We can't just. First of all, it's just delaying the time bomb. So it's just moving from 36.
Nathan Bush: It's almost like a gatekeeper approach.
[Voiceover]: That's right. It's not going to eliminate the issues that the government is aware and there are a few tragic incidents that happen. It's not going to eliminate those incidents. It's just going to delay it. We still have to teach kids how to be responsible on social media and how to not react to negativity that comes from it. That's unavoidable.
Nathan Bush: We have to teach some big issues here that I wasn't, you know, I wasn't expecting to get into. But I can see that you are
Nathan Bush: at the forefront of it because.
Nathan Bush: Exactly. I've heard Simon talk to this before. Simon Beard, when we're talking about him, about him, he's legitimate when he's saying that his competition is in schools who are playing around with AI tools because it's Just natural for them, you know what I mean? They're on the edge of all this stuff. They're curious, they're playing. That's where his competition is going to come from. And you are right in the middle of all of that, which I think is just a fascinating space. And you're going to leave a huge impact on the direction that these children take in these careers. And what I love is that at the start, we talked about how you started this because you felt that we shouldn't just be forced into guaranteed careers. And it's almost come full circle now because no career with today's technology is guaranteed anymore. So you're really teaching life skills.
[Voiceover]: Absolutely. And that's where that readiness for whatever unpredictable situations might happen. And just statistically speaking, there will be more and more unpredictable situations. And we just need to teach kids how to respond to that rather than reacting. It's how to respond. And be ready, be prepared, don't get anxious or stressed. Expect the unexpected.
Nathan Bush: I love it. I love it. Elena, what does the next 12 months look like for you and the Mini Boss school team?
[Voiceover]: So it is about growth. So earlier this year I've opened two new branches. We are in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne. So Sydney and Melbourne, it's the first year since I've opened those branches. So I need to keep growing there to spread awareness, attract right people, have more students, kids, the opportunity to start more businesses. And later I am very passionate again, probably from my experience from the Smith Family foundation, very passionate about helping people who really need that and want it. I would love to start a sponsored kind of branch of miniboss for refugees and first nations people. Because the greatest part value of miniboss is about how we teach. It's very different to traditional teaching approach. You know, when teacher stands in front of the class, the authority and these are the facts and this is what you do. That's not real life. You don't see it in a workplace. And if it happens, people are not happy and they leave. So that's not normal, that's not real life. So how we teach it's all is through engagement, interaction, gaming. And this is the best way for kids from the first nations to learn because it's interactive, it's strong on the community and communication rather than sitting and reading books or sitting in front of your computer in isolation. And also for refugees, it's bringing in the community. So communication. So when we think about the origin of human race and what helped us progress from the Stone Age to today's modern technologies, is ability to communicate and work together, achieve those synergies and achieve goals together. It's not individual work. I do my thing and you do your thing. It's working together. And that's where really how we teach and how we learn, we really need to focus on that togetherness and communication. And that's why miniboss methodology is so amazing. I would want to give, as I said, first, first nations people an opportunity kids to embrace it, particularly those who don't do very well in regular schools. They will love it. I know that and same from refugees kids, so that you give them this opportunity to make their parents proud.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. Oh, I love that vision. Elena, if people have heard your passion today, which no doubt there's so much passion there and I love that you see things a bit differently and they want to get in touch to either inquire or talk about how their kids might be involved or potentially come on board as a mentor if they've got some great experience that we think could benefit younger generations coming through. What's the best way to learn more and get in touch?
[Voiceover]: Well, any social media platform, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. So we are very small team. So whoever catches it, I will know and we respond very promptly. So either through social media or just Google Mini Boss, Business school or Google Me Elena Chiric, it doesn't matter. So one, there is one 300 number website. So whereas the will there is a way all roads are open.
Nathan Bush: Elena, thank you so much for joining me on Add to Cart. I really, really enjoyed that conversation. Like I said, it's a bit of a left hand turn from where we normally go in E commerce, but so, so relative relevant for how we foster creative thinking in ourselves and our teams and also help new talent emerge in our industry. So thank you.
Nathan Bush: There you go. I told you that it's not directly e commerce related, but if you're like me, I got so much out of that that I was like, am I thinking about things right? Am I really challenging myself? Am I stuck in old patterns? And I think Elena, and I think Elena, what she's doing there is really inspiring. Not just for kids, but for anyone who's challenging what they've been taught and how they're attacking problems, especially if you've been doing this for a long time. So I'm in awe of the work that Elena is doing. But here are the three things that really stuck with me. Number one, foster creativity. Early Elena stressed how creativity is like a muscle. It needs to be developed and maintained. It's a fascinating Insight on how children's creativity peaks at age five and then halves every five years unless it's nurtured. Pretty scary when you think of it like that, right? That's why miniboss students as young as 8 work on brainstorming innovative business ideas, often coming up with solutions that adults wouldn't dream of. I know those of you with kids are probably seeing this all the time the time thinking how did your brain even go there? For us in business, it's a reminder to shake up our routines. So if you think about flexing that muscle, if we are not constantly flexing, if we are stuck in routines and ways of doing things, then we are not going to be flexing that creativity muscle and it's going to go backwards. So we need to start brainstorming with a no bad ideas approach to look at something solutions with fresh eyes or collaborate with people outside of your usual circles and your usual business to break those mental patterns. Number two Build resilience through experience. The Mini Boss approach to learning through doing is a real standout. Kids launch real businesses and experience the highs and the lows of entrepreneurship in a safe environment. But there is no shielding them from the potential that business will fail because it's real. Take Brody for instance. That 12 year old student in Perth runs his own inclusive swimwear brand, Ultra Zips and it caters to kids and individuals with disabilities. Amazing. How do they even think of this? But his journey from shy student to local entrepreneur, giving media interviews and selling in pharmacies is an incredible testament to how experience builds confidence and resilience. I'm sure it's not all clear sailing for him and he's coming up across obstacles that no 12 year old should really ever come up against. But the resilience that he will have in his mindset from that early age, rather than being given everything on a platter, will definitely help him as he transitions into adult life. Not necessarily just as an entrepreneur, but in being able to take everything that life throws at him. It's a reminder for all of us, whether it's trying a new marketing strategy or entering a new market, that trying new things, sometimes failing is all part of the process. We've got to embrace it. Number three, Learn from real mentors. Mini Boss students don't just learn business, they learn from the best in the business. Elena shares how students have been mentored by top names like Simon Beard from Culture Kings and Mike Thompson from Nude By Nature, these mentors provide insights that books or courses can't replicate, such as focusing on hero product to build brand recognition or understanding niche markets like drones or skincare for teens. I'm really lucky because I kind of feel like I get to do this every week on Add to Cart. And for me, my growth over the last five years has been phenomenal, even though I haven't been able to put everything into practice because we cover such a wide range of topics in e commerce. But just being exposed to these ideas and different ways of thinking, even if you don't always agree to them, is so beneficial for us. It's a reminder that actively seeking out mentorship opportunities, whether as a mentee or a mentor, can be hugely rewarding in ways that you won't even understand until you've put them in practice many years later. So seek them out. If you haven't got them, maybe now's the time time at the end of 2024. Who's going to be your mentor in 2025? Who can you mentee in 2025? If you found this episode valuable, I would love if you shared it with a friend, a colleague, maybe even a parent who can take some of these tips to help their kids grow on their future entrepreneurial journey. Please share it. We'd love you to spread the word. You can also leave us a review on Spotify or Apple podcasts. And of course, thank you to our amazing sponsors, Shopify plus and Deliver in Person for making Add to Cart possible.
Speaker D: Before you go, we'd love to invite you to join our free e commerce learning platform, Add to Cart Campus. Meet other professionals and learn from e commerce experts to take your business and your e commerce career to the next level. Register to join campus at add to cart.com au campus now. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague. Or even better, leave us a review
Nathan Bush: on Spotify or Apple. It really makes a difference.
