Ed Ross: One day his son walked through the front door wearing one of our shirts and the old man's like, mate, what the is this thing? Yeah, it was crazy. We're like, cash flow positive in three days. It just went absolutely bananas. The old man was telling me this story and he's like, yeah, my son just sat me down and we spoke for like 45 minutes to an hour and just like cried it out about how we'd never spoken about it. And yeah, it was just incredible. We're here for the long run. We're gonna build this thing into an absolute beast and try and make as much impact as we possibly can.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of E commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart.
Nathan Bush: My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and E commerce strategist at 12 high. I had a first with our guest today. I got goosebumps during one of their stories and trust me, it wasn't from seeing them in their speedos. Joining me is Ed Ross, one half of the Mate duo who started Trademark. They've basically redesigned workwear into colors and patterns that are bit crazy and in the process have developed a cult like following. But they have a vision that extends much beyond E commerce. They want to save lives, literally. Ed and his partner Daniel Allen have used Trademark to become leaders in the mental health space with their foundation, tx, which stands for this is a conversation starter. Now, if you haven't heard the Trademark story before, you are definitely going to be blown away by how two tradie mates got delivered some devastating news which then inspired them to change what workwear looks like and have a real impact on Australia's mental health. In our conversation, we dive into how they set up their E commerce business from from the start to incorporate social impact, how they got burnt by marketing agencies early on and why these tradies have gone into fashion, including modeling the speedos I was talking about. It's worth a look. Be warned, you've entered into a tradie
Nathan Bush: zone here, so there are a few
Nathan Bush: f bombs thrown around, but it's all worth it. Also, in case you are not in the right headspace right now, we do discuss mental health and suicide in this episode, so let's get into it. Thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Signet. Here's our conversation with Ed Ross, co founder of Trademont.
Speaker E: Ed Ross, welcome to ADD to cart.
Ed Ross: Hey, pleasure.
Nathan Bush: How are you?
Ed Ross: I'm very well. Had had a couple of extra vinos last night after the Maroons series win, so. Yeah, but I'm feeling okay. Feeling good.
Nathan Bush: Are you a Queenslander?
Ed Ross: Yeah, mate. Born in Longreach, Central Queensland, so yeah, couldn't get much more Queenslander.
Nathan Bush: Happy night for you.
Ed Ross: It was great, great evening.
Nathan Bush: Now, Ed, before we get into it, let's get everyone into the right headspace. If you were explaining trademark to my grandma. Yeah. How would you explain trademark?
Ed Ross: I'd explain that, yeah. Trademark is a social impact business by tradies, for tradies that make funky workwear and now lifestyle products to start conversations about mental health and make an invisible issue impossible to ignore.
Nathan Bush: Mate, you've got that nailed, haven't you?
Ed Ross: Yeah, I've said that a few times.
Nathan Bush: All right, so let's take us back to the start. You mentioned there. It's for tradies. I understand you started life as a tradie and that's where the idea around trademark started. Can you give us a bit of a background on that?
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah. So I actually was never going to do a trade ever, sort of. When I went through school, after I finished boarding school here in Brissey, I went up to the territory for a couple of years. I'm working on a really big cattle station up there for my cousin. He was managing the place and, yeah, living in stock camps and stuff like that. Roughing it. And yeah, my parents putting the hard word on me after two years up there with all the money they'd poured into my education that I had to go and do some sort of tertiary degree. So I went, yeah, down to Marcus Olam. It's a private ag college type thing. They just do three programs down there. Horse business management, agricultural business management, farm management. So I did agribusiness for 12 months. And yeah, I sort of realized that I didn't have sort of anything to go home to, you know, from a. From like a large, you know, property asset, land asset to go home to. So the only real place for me to go if I stuck around was to get into a bank and there was absolutely no way I was going to work in a bank. So I cashed my chips in down there and went back to the territory for sort of nine months. And I lost a mate in a helicopter accident around Easter time that year. And it sort of changed all my perspective and I Came back to Brissy for the EKA and caught up with some mates, had a really good time, went back, gave him a two weeks notice and then moved to Brisbane just on a whim, just wanting to be close to mates and live my life and yeah, sort of fell into a carpentry mature age carpentry apprenticeship after just doing a few months of laboring and that's when I met Dan. So yeah, the carpentry life wasn't in the plans but became part of it and yeah, I wouldn't have wanted any other way.
Nathan Bush: And Dan's your co founder of Trademutt?
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah, co founder, best mate. We started TradeMut on March 16, 2018.
Nathan Bush: And what was what made you go from carpentry into let's call it fashion?
Ed Ross: Yeah, well we, yeah we've always, we're always brainstorming different business ideas on the tools. Like yeah, here in Brizzy in summer obviously it gets pretty warm and yeah, you're often thinking of things that you, you'd rather be doing and you know, building a frame on a 45 degree day in the middle of the sun. So yeah, we're always spitballing different ideas. And one of those ideas was that there was probably a really large gap in the workwear industry and that there was sort of no variety or people being able to buy anything different than just your standard sort of car key or high vis yellow and orange with a pretty plain sort of color scheme. So we started to investigate that and then tragically at the end of 2015 or nearing the end of 2015, Dan lost one of his best mates to suicide obviously very suddenly here in Brisbane. And that was sort of our first direct connection to someone that had taken their life and sort of opened our eyes up to, you know, a people are actually doing this and B just how big an issue it actually was. So the more we investigated it, the more we realized that I had never been educated around mental health or mental wellbeing. Neither had Dan. We're both from you know, private school education and it was just sort of beggars belief that we, you know, this wasn't front of mind. And yeah, one thing led to another. We met some people, found out what social enterprise was and profit for purpose and mate, we just merged the workwear and the, and the message together and, and that was it. It was, yeah, it was crazy.
Nathan Bush: So you already had the idea for trademark when.
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we already had the, we already had the idea for funky workwear but then Dan's Like, I think we can do something really positive with this rather than just being a business. And yeah, that's what we did. We said, why not? Why not make an impact while we, while we do what we want to do anyway.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. And had you being on the work site before this and obviously the tide of mental health now is so strong. If you go onto the trademark side and we'll talk, we'll get into everything that you're doing around mental health in this episode. But being on the work side previous to this, had you had any connotations of how prevalent mental health was in that industry?
Ed Ross: Well, I think the, the ironic part is, is that me as an individual, as a person didn't really understand my own mental health, my own mental well being and what made me tick and when I was low, without realizing I was low and et cetera. But I suppose, you know, looking back now, I can see, you know, when I was having issues, but I didn't really realize it. We also had one of. Well, he was our boss at our old construction business that we're working for. He went through a divorce, he went through some real financial hardships and, you know, he, he was in a horrible, horrible place for it for a long time. He was having a. Yeah, a horrid time. But again, we sort of didn't realize why it was all happening. Yeah. I mean, the amount of work that we've done now and bringing it to the forefront and actually helping people, you know, understand what mental health and mental wellbeing is and the importance of it has been. Has been phenomenal.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: So it was always around you, but it wasn't like you could put a finger on it and understand it.
Ed Ross: Yes. It was just like it wasn't that. It wasn't what we were. What would you, how would you say it wasn't? Front of mind.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, gotcha.
Nathan Bush: And so you've got this idea for this crazy, colorful workwear and if you haven't been on the site, go on and pause this and go have a look because I think it's, it's really good to get on there and have a look before you get into this conversation. Because you've got to kind of see it to understand it, I think. Because it's totally different workwear.
Ed Ross: Yeah, absolutely. It's right out there, it's funky.
Nathan Bush: And then you go, great. We want to be a social enterprise and make a difference straight away. Was there anything that you did in setting up the business model for Trademark from the start to make sure. That you can optimize the social side of it. That it wasn't just a business that had social as a side outcome.
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when we first launched, when we were going, because we raised seed capital, our post seed capital and that was the first thing Was that right, 5% of all of our profits will always be going into, you know, a non for profit mental health organization. We from the outset we'd actually connected with some guys here in Brisbane who had the branding for this as a conversation starter and they were a non profit foundation and it was sort of like an activation that they were going to do with musicians and comedians about writing songs about mental health and then that being a conversation starter itself. So that's what we're raising funds for in the get go. And then we were getting to the point where it was, that was sort of supposed to happen, the activation, but they just weren't coming through on their end. So we were like, mate, we'll acquire this from you. We'll turn into our own non for profit foundation. And that's where you know, this is a conversation starter foundation was born from. So what we learned along the way was that like majority of blokes especially breakdown in their mental health and mental wellbeing was due to finances and relationships and obviously when both of those things happen, you're not going to be investing in your own mental health and mental well being and going and seeing a private psychologist. So we're like there's too many barriers to entry to go and see a psych, it's just too hard. So let's remove all those. And yeah, I've created a text and call service direct to clinical psychologists free of charge, 9 to 5, Monday to Friday.
Nathan Bush: And that stands, it stands alone outside of trademark, doesn't it?
Ed Ross: Obviously, Yep. It's its own non for profit foundation. Yeah, yeah. This is a conversation starter. Yeah, it's amazing, it's awesome.
Nathan Bush: And why did you go down the path of creating something new rather than just partnering with like a Beyond Blue or someone like that who's well regarded already?
Ed Ross: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean the biggest reason we did it was because we just didn't want to be saved. We're donating money somewhere and not wanting to care about the outcome. You know, it was sort of, we could easily, we could easily done that but to be honest the suicide rate isn't going down. So we're like these huge organizations have been, you know, around for a long time and they're there for A necessary reason, there's no doubt. But we wanted to create something that was relatable, reliable, professional and instantaneous and something that people were willing to use but then tell their mates about it. You know, that's what we're, you know, my sort of vision for it is hopefully one day I'm in a pub and I overhear someone telling their mate about how they use T axa that they should, you know, hook up and talk to them too. That's sort of. Yeah, the North Star sort of look out for the foundation.
Nathan Bush: That's the kind of impression I got from, from my look around is that TX was like the therapist and I don't know the actual terms, but you could kind of walk into a pub and speak to.
Ed Ross: Yeah, 100. It's. It's. That's the best part. Because it's like free and they're professional. That's the best part. It was sort of like we can get, you know, like there's counseling services out there or just crisis support where it's volunteer based. But we're like, when someone does muster the courage to reach out and say that they need help and show that vulnerability, we want someone there that can actually help them straight away. So that was always the reason we went sort of like the professional route, basically.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. And you've taken that. This is a conversation starter and actually it's an integral part of all your product as well. Right, so it's not just a tagline on a website, it's actually on your product. Tell us about that.
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah, so it's on the back of all of our work shirts. So, yeah, it's blatantly obvious that that's what it stands for. And yeah, it's just sort of a reoccurring theme out of all of our stuff. It's sort of peppered through their marketing material and mail out collateral and emails and yeah, it's just a way of us making that the center point.
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Nathan Bush: pace, page speed, which contributed to a
Speaker E: 3.5% increase in conversion. As Limp Bizkit would say, they're now rolling, rolling, rolling. To read more of Rolling Nation's story and to see other case studies, visit the customer sections on shopify.com.
Nathan Bush: Any great stories that come to mind from people who have seen the shirts or. This is a conversation start. And actually started that conversation for the first time, mate.
Ed Ross: Yeah, we had, we've had heaps, you know, stuff from. There was a guy, it sort of, it's.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Ed Ross: Stuck in, in my memory, a guy down in Tamworth. He had a. He's what lost his wife to cancer a long time ago and he had a. They had a young family and their young son. They sort of never discussed it. You know, the father and the son. And then one day his son walked through the. The front door wearing one of our shirts and the old man's like, mate, what the is this thing? And anyway, the old man was telling me the store and he's like, he's like, yeah, my son just sat me down and we spoke for like 45 minutes to an hour and just like cried it out about how we'd never spoken about it. Yeah, it was just incredible. So stuff like that. And then there was a guy, yeah. Not long ago at all that reached out through to the TIACS Foundation. He. He was on his way out. He. Yeah. Got all his affairs in order. He's. That night was going to be his last night and his dad was wearing a trademark shirt, breakfast table and yeah. Started a conversation. He reached out and we got him. Yeah, got him. It was incredible.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Ed Ross: I mean stories that. Yeah, we're sort of. Yeah, we sort of not, not that we become numb to it, but it's sort of like. I don't think we really realize the impact they're making at a community based level because it's sort of like we're in the bubble and we're seeing it all every day. But the amount of people that it is actually helping just through a funky work shirt and some branding that we're saying that we're there for everyone. Yeah. Really is resonating on a lot of different levels, mate.
Nathan Bush: I've just, I literally got goosebumps just hearing those stories. It's incredible the impact you can have. Right.
Ed Ross: The ironic thing is that we don't really like, we don't like telling people very much at all because it's sort of like we're not here to big note that this is what we're doing and it's working. It's like we know it's working so we don't need to like validate at 21, if that makes sense, like. And it would be wrong of us to ever push and say that this is what we're doing and. Really? Yeah, it's just like, people know why we're here, they know what we're offering and it's just like a really amazing community of people.
Nathan Bush: No, and I think you're right. It's like. It's not like you give people who buy your work shirts a book or a pamphlet that comes with the workshops to go, hey, guys, this is actually how you have a nice conversation around if you know someone's in trouble.
Ed Ross: It's just.
Nathan Bush: They see the shirt opens up, the conversation just flows. Right?
Ed Ross: Yeah, exactly. It's just not putting too much in a box and just sort of allowing it to sort of unfold on its own accord.
Nathan Bush: All right, so let's talk E commerce. Did you always start out as E commerce or did you start out B2B originally?
Ed Ross: No, it was always E commerce. Yeah, we launched on a Shopify site.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Ed Ross: The night. So, basically how it all launched was. Was crazy. We just got picked up in the media. We're on Channel 7 news. One evening, they came out and filmed us on site. And then we're like, oh, when is this going to where? They're like, oh, in about an hour and a half. And through again, Crazy coincidences. We were renovating a mate's house in Albion. Twin brothers. They were graphic designers. Rob had been working on our website, sort of without really telling us how much he had been working on it. And we rang him up and said, holy fuck, mate, we're about to be on the news. Can this website go live? He's like, boys, I've been working on this shit for two weeks. Yeah, it's ready to go. So we got into our manufacturer in China. We're like, let's buy 1500 of these shirts, put them on the website. And then. Yeah, up and away. And we were. It was crazy. We're like, cash flow positive. In three days, it just went absolutely bananas. Our Channel 7 video got 1.2 million views. It was just. Nah. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: Did you have that manufacturing relationship set up already before that was ready to go?
Ed Ross: Luckily, we'd already been. Yeah. Been working with them. We'd finally got the right samples back that we were ready to put into production. And then, yeah, put every last dollar we had between Dan and I into it and, yeah, cashed our chips in and went for it. It was crazy.
Nathan Bush: And away you go. And is it 100% E commerce or Is it retail?
Ed Ross: Yeah, no, we don't, we don't really retail. We're doing some stuff with trade tools. But, yeah, you know, it's 99% online. It's. Yeah, it's. It's amazing. Yeah. Direct, direct to customer. And yeah, we've just started using a 3PL as well. Sendable, who are also a social impact business. We've got about seven people through Multicap that we employ full time through that. Yeah, collaboration as well.
Nathan Bush: Tell us more about Sendable, because I think it's, it's a brilliant concept and, and I'm stoked that you guys are using them. Can you share how that works?
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny. It's the, the running joke in the office gear. It's the first time someone's cold LinkedIn me and I've actually replied. So, yeah, Declan reached out. I mean, yeah, Dan and I laugh because we reckon his mate, you know, the reason we started this just pulls these levers upstairs. We're just like this guy's doing because, yeah, for Declan to reach out, like, we were just coming to the stage where again, the ironic part is we move into a warehouse in Morningside and we're like, yeah, this would be big enough to sustain us for, you know, two years. We're here for three months. We're like, fuck, this place is already too small.
Nathan Bush: How big are you talking at that stage?
Ed Ross: Well, we moved here with must have been about five employees. Now we've got 12 with Trademark and then we've got about six with TAC. So had to build them their own office at the back and then sort of that took up half the warehouse space. And we're like, we've got all these new SKUs coming to Christmas, we're never going to fit them in here. So, yeah, I was looking around, reaching out to people logistics wise, what can I do? And then, yeah, Declan miraculously linked cold LinkedIn me. He's like, hey mate, just let us know if you need any help. And yeah, rang him and I was like, mate, yeah, you'll have the goods around there by the end of the week. So, yeah, it was really good. Send able, obviously, yeah, a profit for purpose business as well. They work with Multi Cap to have people with sort of an intellectual disability to have full time employment. So otherwise, you know, they obviously need full time care, but they wouldn't otherwise be working. So, yeah, it's really, it's really amazing. I mean, when we first started with them a few months ago, there was three people working on Our stuff pick and packing and dispatching every day now there's seven. And yeah, it's sort of end to end impact. It's great.
Nathan Bush: So have you had to change the way of working to work with that team or has it been flawless, like.
Ed Ross: No, it's about that process. It's been quite seamless really. Obviously we were pick and packing ourselves. My mum was sort of doing it all in the. Because it got so busy that I was like, mum, can you come help us out? So mum was coming down and pick and packing all our stuff and poor mum was.
Nathan Bush: She has faith that you're going to become a millionaire one day, right?
Ed Ross: Oh, I was slave labor there for a while for her. But yeah, she punched through and got it done. But yeah, we send able. It's been, it has been quite, quite seamless. The only real thing obviously is like the comm stuff and that's just sort of internal processes like who's talking to who when stocks coming in and out and sort of what's left over. But all in all, mate, I wouldn't change a thing. They've been absolutely fantastic and saved us having to put, you know, more people on here and more people to manage internally. It's sort of like what I've realized through, you know, what we've realized through the, through the business so far is just stick to what you're good at and outsource what you're not and get people outside that are good at what they do and get them involved. So yeah, that's sort of our motto.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, great. It's a nice motto. And we'll put a link to send Able into the show notes as well. Yeah, but are they national or are they kind of Brisbane based?
Ed Ross: It is Brisbane at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that, yeah, Declan's quite a. Yeah, a go getter, mate. He'll. He'll have that thing absolutely crunching. So. And they're expanding really quickly out there. I mean they've got. A lot of people have got. Yeah, buying deco. They've got um. There's another one as well. The uh, it's something denim.
Nathan Bush: Outland denim.
Ed Ross: Outland denim. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: We had James on a few weeks ago, so.
Ed Ross: Yeah, right.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, they're doing cool stuff as well. So tell us then about. You talked about sticking to what you're good at. Now I opened up your website and one of the first images I saw was a picture of you in your Speedos holding a sausage. Is that sticking to what you're good at?
Ed Ross: Yeah, I Mean, yeah, I mean, we really do not take ourselves too seriously at all. And I suppose again, Dan often speaks about it. We sort of just fell into being ambassadors for this brand. We never intentionally set this business up for us to be in the, you know, spotlight and be the guys that were doing this. It just sort of. People were resonating with Dan and I and it was sort of like, this is working, let's just keep, keep giving more of it. So that's what we've sort of done. And yeah, I mean, that photo shoot for the new launch of the lifestyle colle, again, yeah, we don't take ourselves too seriously. So when someone had to don the new the dts, I was more than happy to slap them on and get in the focus.
Nathan Bush: I've got a feeling you didn't need much encouragement there, mate.
Ed Ross: Nah, mate, nah, nah.
Nathan Bush: So let's give people some context. So you've started out with workwear and you kind of transform the traditional workwear that people would see on building sites or road workers or anywhere like that to, to make it a little bit more fluoro and a little bit more colorful patterns. And now you, you've expanded into what you call the barbecue range, which is the non work day gear.
Ed Ross: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: How, how did that come about?
Ed Ross: Yeah, we've got an amazing in house design team. So Annika Pole, she used to work for Lorna Jane and Iris hall, she's a QUT graduate and she's won like a national design award. And they sort of came to us and said, hey, look, we've got this crazy idea for Christmas. We want to bring in a lifestyle range and, you know, give people an option to get into trademark that aren't in the, you know, work workwear industry or the blue collar industry and allow them something to wear. And we were like, this is awesome. Let's, let's test out and see how it goes. And one thing, yeah, snowballed into the other and yeah, we finally got into market. It's just a, just an ability for us to, to give because people just email us flat out. They're like, oh, you've got to make this, can you make that? Can you do this for us? And you know, we laugh about it in here. We're like, you know, obviously it does get on your nerve in the end because there's like so much stuff coming. Like, I'm so sorry we can't do everything, you know. Yeah. But we're like, well, bugger it, let's just make this stuff and see how it goes. And yeah, we've had an overwhelming response. It's been amazing. It's just, yeah, giving people the ability, you know, when they do clock off to still wear something, start a conversation and yeah, really look after themselves. That's right. The really big point of this collection, it's not worrying about everyone else for the lifestyle range, it's just worry about yourself and get yourself in check. And you know, I for one have had a massive, well we've all had a massive year here at Trademark. You know it's been a crazy 12 months and yeah it is really time to you know, shut it down coming into Chrissy and yeah start looking after ourselves and reset and refocus for 2021.
Nathan Bush: It's a great message because you know we speak to a lot of people, especially in the retail side that have struggled throughout the year, whether it's been the whole year or parts of it, especially those based out of Melbourne. What has been your perception since coming from the construction industry into retail around the state of mental health in retail and how we treat ourselves in this industry?
Ed Ross: Yeah, I mean it's, it's a tough one. I mean it's, it's, it's quite different. Obviously the online retail space, I, I think what I like about the online retail space is obviously people can sort of work more to their own hours and they're not locked in to sort of a set schedule. So much with, you know, when you're building a house for someone, obviously you gotta be there from 5:30 in the morning until 4 in the afternoon and you know you gotta get it done a certain way and you're out in
Nathan Bush: 40 degree conditions, you're not stuck in a nice aircon office with nice coffee
Ed Ross: and yeah like the online retail space people are so adaptive to new things and trying new things comparatively to like the building construction industry, it's quite hard to bring in new innovative ideas. I like, yeah, I like this space a lot and I mean yeah, the mental well being I think there's a lot more avenues for people like to connect and people are very happy to share ideas among one another and you know, when we're tradies you barely ever sort of hang out with other trade crews. Obviously you've got mates that aren't tradies but you're not hanging out with whole other businesses. Whereas you know we've got lots of online retail businesses that we're very friendly with and often communicate with about different ideas and what we're up to. So it is a good support network for Sure.
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Ed Ross: a box which prevents product movement during transit.
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Nathan Bush: Some would even say they're shining a light for smart packaging.
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Nathan Bush: You are now looking to establish an advisory council? Advisory.
Ed Ross: Yeah, yeah. So that was, that was before the, the lifestyle range. I started putting that into place. Dan and I wanted to have some people are going to hold sort of us accountable to our work as well. And yeah, obviously it's been put on the back burner because it's just been so, so flat out. We've got an overwhelming response. We've got a, a really awesome shortlist of people we're going to reach out to over sort of before Christmas and hopefully get that up and running sort of quarter, quarter, one next year.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, nice. It's a nice way of doing. I love the idea of advisory boards rather than a board because it allows you to get all that input from people who have done it before or seen different things without actually having that corporate structure in place.
Ed Ross: Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose from Dan and I and Trademode as a brand, we want to be able to set an example for other business owners and stuff out there to say that it's okay to ask for outside help. I mean, it would be insane to think that we've been doing all this on our own. And a lot of people grit their teeth and think that they've got to know everything themselves and they've got to do the stuff that they're not good at because that's what business is about. And that's, you know, what we're trying to do is set an example and be like, hey, look, doesn't matter if you're, you know, a handyman or, you know, you're running 30 tradies or you're, you know, working at BHP. Everyone needs assistance, you know, everyone needs help. And we're more than happy to put our hand up and say that we do. Absolutely.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Nice. And I'm sure that you will actually give those people lessons that you've had along the way as well. So it's a Mutual thing. Right?
Ed Ross: A win. Win for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Bush: From the time that you have been in business and being a pure play e commerce business, is there any particular lessons that stand out for you that you went, oh, we fucked that up. But it's actually been really valuable in the long term.
Ed Ross: Oh mate, fuck. Paid media buying like, you know, working with agencies. We've burned some money with agencies and yeah, like a lot of money. A lot of money for when we didn't have much. And I'm so glad it happened when it did because it would have been catastrophic if it happened now. Yeah, it really annoys me because, you know, not to go on off on a tangent here but the marketing agency space, they really pry on people that do not have a clue with what's going on and that was us. I mean we had no idea. They sell you, sell you the world on what they can do and then, and then majority. Well I'm not saying majority but the ones we were working with just never delivered and you sort of get stuck into a false hope because you've invested so much of money to a certain point that you sort of like at the end casino where you're like, well I've got it. If I tip in again then that hopefully it'll, it'll bounce back. Like they're saying it's going to happen, it's going to kick back but Matt, it never does. We're so lucky. We're working with. Yeah, Farsight. They're at an agency here in Morningside, Ben and Josh Somerville. I mean, yeah, they're absolutely incredible. They're fantastic. So trustworthy, you know, none of that lock in contract 12 month stuff. It's just, yeah, month by month, they're fantastic. And you know, I absolutely, yeah, push everyone to. I think I've got about four or five clients this year because yeah, I mean I just. When you find someone that. That is good. Yeah, you just tell everyone about it.
Nathan Bush: No, we love it. We love specific recommendations on this show so hopefully we send a few more there on your recommendation. Just going back to the agencies in those initial early days, was you mentioned there around lock in contracts? Was there any other lessons out of that that you'd will share with people who are establishing their own businesses now to look out for if they are looking to go?
Ed Ross: Yeah, I think the really important thing is to reach out to people that you admire in the same vertical, the same space that you're working in because I think they've all made the same mistakes and it's going to save you making the same ones on the way through. That's. We didn't have anyone like, we had business mentors, but we didn't have people that had been on the same journey as us on like an online retail business side. So that's why we did make those mistakes early on. But I suppose, yeah, if it sounds too good to be true, fucking 99% of the time it is. So, yeah. And I mean, if anyone does want to reach out to me, yeah, please just hit me up on LinkedIn for sure. I'm happy to help.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant. And you might be the second person who gets a response from your LinkedIn messages and from the way you work with the guys now, do you give them specific roas targets or anything like that? That.
Ed Ross: Yeah, we do. We, we budget everything. So our CFO sort of budgets everything off like a full roas. And I mean those agencies that are telling you a one, a one row ass is your money back. I've got, it's just rocks in your head because, I mean, yeah, we're not going to go into that now, but. Because I'll go on for an hour. But yeah. So our minimum ROAS to 4 last month we had just under 8, 7.8 our row. Yeah, it's incredible. So, I mean, yeah, those, those guys out there that are telling you you need a one or a two to one return is you just, you're burning cash. You're burning cash.
Nathan Bush: And a one or one or a two just shows that they don't understand the business model. Right. Because you generally can't be profitable off of one or two. No.
Ed Ross: And I mean, but they suck people into it because a 2 to 1 return sounds great. But the thing is, if people aren't across their numbers and again, that's like a huge learning curve is finding someone that's good at the numbers. I mean, we've given a piece of our business away to someone that we wholeheartedly trust in doing all of our cash flows and all of our budgeting and zero work for a good reason. Because we can sleep at night knowing that it is fully sorted. And if he's worried, we're worried. But if he gives it the tip, we've got nothing to worry about. We've got to keep punching at our sales target somewhere away. You know, that's. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: If you walk into the office in the morning, he's got his feet up on the desk, you go, oh shit, today's going to be a good day.
Ed Ross: Going to be a good day. Yeah, I Mean, getting someone that's, that's really savvy around your finances is the most important thing in business. I mean without that you are no point turning the website live.
Nathan Bush: Yep. And sorry, last question. On the marketing side of it, you mentioned the 8 to 1 roas. Is there any specific channels or strategies that are really working for you right now that you can share?
Ed Ross: Ours is a long, long form copy which we've, we've found. So, yeah, long form copy in the ads is working really well, obviously like portraying our message and our story. So Dan writes like amazing copy and Gemma, our community manager writes really good copy. So they're doing that plus the farsight write great copy as well. So they've noticed that as well as some of the reels, like the video reels where it's short clipped and quite engaging, that stuff as well is working really well. So another thing for people out there starting, don't spend money on high end production. Just get your iPhone out and fucking clip it together, guys. We've burnt money that way too and we get a better return on just using your iPhone in the office.
Nathan Bush: That's it.
Nathan Bush: And I think too, it's about knowing your audience, right? Is that your audience isn't expecting beautifully polished photos that are shot in France.
Ed Ross: No, no, no, no. They're just absolutely not. They just want to know what we're doing while we're doing it and how we can get a shirt and be a part of it.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, beautiful. Now you've had an amazing personal journey and doing great things in E commerce, doing great things in social enterprise. What advice? And you've already given a lot. Is there any other advice that you give for people looking to go out and create their own social enterprise business?
Ed Ross: What would I say? I'd say don't. I wouldn't be starting a social enterprise business if you're not really, really focused around making the social impact. I mean, if you're just doing it for the sake of doing it and using it as like a marketing add on, people see straight through it and it's not going to work. You're better off just sticking to a quality product and selling it and making it a great customer experience. I mean, if you do want to make change in the, in the social impact space, find something that you're really passionate about because yeah, I tell you what it, you know, Dan often says it, he's like, it'd be a lot easier for us to do marketing here if we didn't have to push a mental health message. So you know, it is a, it's a huge responsibility to take on a social impact business. It's massive and we're here for long run. We're going to build this thing into an absolute beast and try and make as much impact as we possibly can. And then sort of through our supply chain, which I sort of haven't touched on, is. Yeah, making it sort of end to end as well. So, yeah, that's my biggest recommendation for social impact businesses.
Nathan Bush: It's a great tip and say we're talking again in 10 years time. What do you want to be remembered for? Do you want to be remembered for Trademark? Do you want to be remembered for TX or something else?
Ed Ross: No, I just want to be me personally. I just want to be remembered as someone that was willing to just have a go and not, you know, sit on the, sit on the earlier wins, like sort of just building from, from a certain spot and try and do as sort of much as I possibly can. I think. Yeah, there's, there's so much opportunity out there, especially you know, the online retail space at the moment. You can see that, you know, how everything's been going the last couple of months through Covid. There's just such a huge opportunity online direct to customer that, yeah, it's just the more I can be involved in that space the better and yeah, if people sort of can remember me for, for being involved in a few really successful, you know, online businesses, that'll be
Nathan Bush: great, mate, you're doing fantastic things yourself. And Dan, so congratulations to both of you from both an E commerce perspective, but also to the huge impact you make into people's mental health. So fantastic. Now we've talked about how people can get in contact with you via LinkedIn. You've also got a podcast. Tell us a little bit about that and how other ways that people can connect with you. Trademark and tx.
Ed Ross: Tx, yeah, yeah. So obviously for our podcast it's trademarks 120 grit, the podcast for the working class. So it's, I think it's had about 40 odd episodes and we've just, just finished up, wrapped up that season. So it's, it's done now. We're starting Trademark Radio as of the next few weeks, the first episode will be coming out. So it's a bit of a different format. So you can check that out. Yeah, on any podcast app and on YouTube as well with the video format on there as well. And then, yeah, hit us up on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and yeah, more than, more than happy to help and tx is just tx.org t iacs.org and yeah, they're available 9 to 5, Monday to Friday at the moment and yeah, free and yeah, discreet. It's great. Check it out.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful. And can I recommend some budgie smugglers for dads around the country? I reckon it's a great Christmas present if anyone's stuck for ideas.
Ed Ross: Yeah, the barbecue collection's online so yeah, jump on and check it out. The cutoff date is the 11th of December, so yeah, jump on and book in.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Cheers Ed, love your work and thanks for sharing.
Ed Ross: Thanks Nathan, really appreciate it mate.
Nathan Bush: There were so many great stories in there. But you know what I loved most from an e commerce perspective? Ed actually lit up when he talked about his partners, whether that be sendable or his marketing agency. He went out of his way on this podcast to blow the trumpet for them and share their success. He gave them a really good plug, which I'm super happy about. It shows how important finding good partners are and a great measure of success being mutual success. If you're thriving and your partners are thriving, isn't that a nice sign of a healthy ecosystem? But much bigger than e commerce was the impact that Ed and Dan are making in mental health. So if you are looking for support or you have a mate that could be, check out tx. This is a conversation starter to speak with a qualified professional. You never know as Ed showed, it could be the conversation that changes everything.
Speaker E: If you're looking for more e commerce news, case studies and research, sign up to 12High's High5 newsletter. Every week I read all the e commerce news and send you five things which I've found which will help grow your business. Visit 12 High.
Nathan Bush: To sign up for free.
Speaker E: Thanks for listening and until next time, keep adding to cartoon.
