Steve Blick: That beer education, that beer knowledge is important for us because it's beer, right? It's not just a product on a shelf. This direct to drinker space has become more and more important. You know, the tasting rooms, the online store, the beer club, these different things that allow us to actually build up rapport and have conversations with our drinkers. There's something really special about being able to deliver fresh beer from the brewery directly to people's front doors. I get a kick out of that.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to Add to Cart, the podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of e commerce. Every month, Nathan Bush from 12 High and an E commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course, keep your customers Adding to Cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of Add to Cart and director at ecommerce
Nathan Bush: talent agency E Suite. When I started my e Commerce Consultancy,
Nathan Bush: 12 High, I made a really short
Nathan Bush: list of the clients that I'd just
Nathan Bush: fall over to work with one of those companies. On that list is actually today's guest.
Nathan Bush: It's Steve Blick from Stone and Wood.
Nathan Bush: Now, in case you're not familiar, Stone and Wood are based in beautiful Byron Bay and they're the pioneers of the
Nathan Bush: craft brew scene in Australia.
Nathan Bush: They're one of the largest independent brewers in Australia and are very, very well known for their famous Pacific Ale. Highly awarded and now have a number of other brands including Counterculture Fixation and the recently acquired Two Birds Brewing.
Nathan Bush: Steve is the head of Direct to Drinker at Stone and Wood.
Nathan Bush: In today's chat, Steve dives into the complexities of running a website based off two different platforms. We're talking Shopify and WordPress at the
Nathan Bush: same time, how a subscription offering has
Nathan Bush: changed, how they mix with their customers and and how the majority of the Stone and Wood team actually own part of the brewery. Make sure you tune in right until
Nathan Bush: the end and I'm going to let
Nathan Bush: you know how you can go in
Nathan Bush: the draw to win a six month Stone and Wood Beer Club subscription.
Nathan Bush: So, thanks to our partners, Shopify plus and Signet, here's our conversation with Steve
Nathan Bush: Blick from Stone and Wood Brewing Company. Steve Blick, welcome to Add to Cart.
Steve Blick: Hello Bushy, how are you, mate?
Nathan Bush: Good, mate, thank you for joining us. I must let everyone know before we start that we've had the pleasure of working together for a number of years now, which has been awesome.
Steve Blick: That's right, mate.
Nathan Bush: And I'm gonna lead with the most
Nathan Bush: important question of today.
Nathan Bush: What's been the best thing about working with me?
Steve Blick: Of course he asked that. Oh, mate, you've brought stuff to the table that we haven't been able to. You know, there's fairly traditional model in the way beer businesses are run, and E Commerce certainly hasn't been on the radar that long for a lot of people in beer. So I don't know if I want to float your boat anymore.
Nathan Bush: I was about to say I was expecting an insult or something of the sorts. I wasn't actually expecting a serious answer at that point. So now I look like I'm fishing for compliments when I was actually fishing for an insult.
Steve Blick: Excellent. I'll keep track of a couple of derogatory comments for later then.
Nathan Bush: All right, good, good, good. Let's get into it. So for people who don't know Stone and Wood, can you give them a bit of an overview around who Stone and Wood are and how you guys operate?
Steve Blick: Absolutely, mate. So we're a brewery. We're a brewery based up in Northern Rivers, set up in Byron Bay about 12 years ago. And outside of just being a brewery, the founders have always design the business to be a sustainable business. So it's a brewing business, but it's. It's a business that is trying to take a non traditional approach to how we grow and how we kind of hang around for the long term.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And the founders, as I understand the three founders, they came from Big Brewing before establishing Stone and Wood.
Steve Blick: Absolutely, mate. So Jamie, Ross and Brad, who are all still in the business, they came from Cub and different roles within Cub. So they worked on getting Matilda Bay up and running from the brewing side of it, the sales and marketing side of it, and then, you know, the business operational side of it as well, as well as heaps of other roles within the broader Cub business. But they were actually the first guys to leave Cub and set up another brewery. So that's not trying to float their boat. But that's probably an indicator of how UNCOMMON it was 12 years ago to take that brewing experience and go do your own thing. It's kind of a market dominated by a couple big breweries.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And in terms of what we've seen over the last two or three years, where we've seen a lot of independent breweries snapped up by the Big guys, there's been a lot of investment, especially in the craft beer space. You guys have remained totally independent.
Steve Blick: Correct, mate.
Nathan Bush: What kind of impact does independence have on a business like Stone and Wood
Steve Blick: kind of impact does it have? I guess it allows us to make our own decisions is the biggest impact. And coming back to that progressive business model, it's allowing us to make the right decisions for the right reasons. Our reasons rather than someone else's. Yeah, that's probably the biggest, biggest thing there, mate. Other than that, I don't know. Like, the independence resonates with consumers. It's important for the team. There's all sorts of reasons that we all value that stem from that independence.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And one thing that has stood out for me working with you guys, and you especially, is the value that you guys put on things, I think that a lot of larger corporations wouldn't. So, for example, customer experience is always at the forefront. Local giving back to the local community is always forefront. And making sure that you're sustainable for the community and the environment as well is always part of those big conversations, which has always impressed me, which I feel as an independent with the founders still there, allows you to keep that focus firmly on those things. Bigger than profit.
Steve Blick: Totally, mate. That's it. Profit will come. It's not about it coming overnight, it's about it coming over the long term in a sustainable way.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Bush: Now and about yourself.
Nathan Bush: I met you when you came in as the direct to drinker and the E commerce leader at Stone and Wood, and you've been at Stone and Wood for nine years now. But your history is that you were a schoolteacher.
Steve Blick: That's it, man.
Nathan Bush: Tell us how a schoolteacher becomes an E commerce leader.
Steve Blick: No, it's interesting. So definitely my first love teaching. And yeah, still a special place in my heart for it, but I found myself brewing a lot of beer and exploring different beer styles and trying things out. And it took me a while, it took me three years, but I eventually realized that other people were brewing much better beer than I could ever brew myself. So I was just super interested in it and caught up with one of the guys at my local pub and turns out they were looking for someone to join the team. Early days for them. And so a couple beers later, we. Yeah, I actually sent one of the founders a tweet, which is the last, and I think probably the first time I've ever used Twitter. But here we are nine years later and a lot of the roles have been building the business and introducing it to new people, building awareness, some similarities to a classroom. You know, instead of standing in front of a bunch of kids teaching them something, you're standing in front of a bunch of people in a Pub trying to let them know about beer.
Nathan Bush: Do you remember what that first tweet
Steve Blick: said to the effect of thanks to the beer? Because obviously they were trying to shove as much of it down people's throats as they could at that time to introduce it to people. Thanks for the beer. If you guys are ever looking for someone to represent you down here, let me know how good.
Nathan Bush: So you had no sales experience before that?
Steve Blick: No sales experience, mate. But I think what allowed me to sneak in the door was it was as much about representing the brand and just selling a product. It was being able to have the opportunity to help represent the brand and build the brand in those early days. And a lot of the sales experience has developed as that's become more relevant to us.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So talk us through West Underwood now, obviously as the head of Direct to Drinker and the E commerce leader, you've got a few facets to your business. Obviously supplying pubs and retailers and the Direct to Drinker as in the website and E commerce is relatively new. How does it all come together for you guys in terms of sales channels?
Steve Blick: That's is new, but a big part of it has come out of making sure we're staying relevant. It's a really dynamic industry. Beer like we all are changing our tastes more than ever. And it's our job as a brewery to make sure that what we're doing is relevant and that's relevant products and relevant channels. So this direct to drinker, which is your traditional B2C approach, this direct to drinker space has become more and more important. You know, the tasting rooms, the online store, the beer club, these different things that allow us to actually build up rapport and have conversations with our drinkers rather than their only experience of us being through grabbing our beer from the bottle shop shelf.
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Nathan Bush: Is there anything that stands out for you in terms of a learning that's come out from amplifying the Direct to Drinker rather than going through B2B channels? Is there anything that you've brought back into the wider business. That's been a particular surprise or kind of an aha moment, Even after almost
Steve Blick: 10 years in the business. It blew my mind initially that there are people out there that are willing to spend that much of their hard earned cash directly. With us, as one of six or seven hundred breweries in the country, is people that have chosen to spend thousands of bucks a year supporting us and drinking our beer. So that's incredible. You don't see that when you're selling to bottle shops, but to see people actually choosing to spend that money and do it regularly and repeatedly is, yeah, it's super cool.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. You've got some really, really loyal followers there. And I think a lot of that comes back to is that for a lot of people, especially in this region, northern New South Wales, Queensland and New South Wales, Pacific Ale, which is your leading beer, is often the first craft beer that a lot of people try. It seems to be the entry point for a lot of people. Is that what you find? And if so, is that a barrier to being able to open up to other varieties and products?
Steve Blick: Yes, and yes, like Pacific Ale, for sure. It's that it's got all sorts of names and monikers about it, but it's definitely one of those gateway craft beers some people call it. It's a good introduction to something different than what people may have traditionally been drinking. And it's a huge part. It's the majority of what we brew still. And we still have times when we can't brew enough of it. So it does make us question the other stuff we're brewing as well. But it comes back to that dynamic market, that sustainable approach. Pacific Ale is a great, unique beer, but there's people out there that want to drink different things than Pacific Ale. If we're going to be relevant, it's important to brew different things and connect to different people and have different offers out there. For those people that might not be into a fresh Pacific Ale, you know?
Nathan Bush: Absolutely. And you've got some crazy beers out there. Like everyone knows about Pacific Ale, but you've got some crazy beers out there. Like one of the ones is you have Counterculture, which is another brand which kind of has the license to do crazy beers and recently tried Tequila beer, which was it, You've got access direct to drinkers. How do you go in terms of dividing messages between those people who, you know, just want to order six cases of Pacific Ale every year versus those who want to try every crazy variety that you put out throughout the year?
Steve Blick: Yeah, That's a great question. And, you know, starting to build an E comm business, the initial thinking was, oh, it's going to be easy. We're going to have access to this data, we're going to be able to understand our drinkers way better. But ultimately it's only a small set of our overall drinkers. And ultimately a lot of the people drinking Pacifica also want to drink this other stuff, just not at the same frequency, but they still want to try the other stuff we're doing. It's exciting for all of us to try new things. Right. So to answer your question, it's tricky to differentiate, but it's a lot of fun to do different things. We have a couple of tasting rooms and we have these direct drinkers and that's the best feedback we can ever get. So if people are liking something that's different, then maybe we'll do it again. If they don't like it, we've got a better chance of knowing why it didn't resonate with people. So the data is not fixed, but it is a cool way to understand what people are into.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I think one of the best ways that I've seen you tap into that crowd of the people who want to try everything, and some people call them beer nerds, is your subscription service, which you've just started up and you've referenced to it before, around Beer Club. Can you tell us about Beer Club and how that works?
Steve Blick: Totally, mate. Yeah. Beer Club's pretty cool. It started as a way we have these counterculture beers, right? We do one every two or three months. There's always a different beer. It's always pretty exciting to see it released. There's never huge quantities of it, so it does sell out. And the Beer Club started as a way for people to actually be guaranteed that they're going to receive this beer. So if they're in the beer club, then we absolutely have their name on the list to make sure they get it. They don't have to risk it running out at the local bottle shop. So they're always going to be able to get it delivered normally a week or two before anyone else gets it. And so they get to try that as part of the beer club. So that's kind of where it started. But it's become more than that. Like, it's become a way for people to actually chat with each other about different beers. They're liking to become a way for us to put on special events for Beer club members if we want to release something Else. And we don't have a lot of it, like a cool counterculture T shirt or a special perk that we're offering. We can do that just with beer club members. So we get to connect with them more. We get to give them a bit of special treatment. They get to get those countercultures. We kind of give them a bit of inside gossip on what's happening at the brewery around hops or new types of malt. All that beer nerdy stuff. So yeah, it's some products, it's some events and special treatment, it's even some content. You know those beer club members get a monthly newsletter and they are super engaged. Is it like an 80% open rate on those newsletters? And they love hearing what we're up to and then telling us what they think of it. Too good, bad and in between.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. Can you talk us through the mechanics of beer club? What's the actual offer and then how does it work?
Steve Blick: Yeah, so that's, that's evolved. You know, we wanted the opportunity to keep it dynamic and change and evolve it over time as we understand things better. We didn't want to set up a fixed lock in people for 12 months. So at the core of it is those countercultures that we brew five or six times a year, plus our limited release stone beer. That's guaranteed as a beer club member. You can be a beer club member for a month or six months or 12 months or ongoing. We've still got beer club members. More than half of them have been in there since day one, yourself included, mate. So thank you. And we set it up through the Bold subscription app. It's not a pure subscription though, it's a membership. So we use Bold to collect the $15 a month membership fee. And that goes against the beer club virtual product. And then every time we want to send something out, we'll just pull out a list of all the active beer club members, we'll export it and then import it back in with a new order for that group of beer club members. So a couple of elegant and not so elegant hacks, but we've managed to retrofit existing off the shelf products to help us evolve that beer club and keep it dynamic.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. And so customers pay $15 a month. Every second month they receive a parcel in the mail. They also get a welcome pac which has is it a hat and a couple of glasses and a beer in it as well when they first join up.
Steve Blick: That's it, mate. Let's say you sign up immediately after a release you know, you might not receive something for six to eight weeks, but we want to say thanks straight away. Thanks for joining. So, yeah, we'll send you out a welcome pack. It's got a beer club cap, it's got a couple of beer club glasses, it's got a four pack of something else we're brewing, whether it's East Point or Cloudcatcher. And, yeah, you get that straight away as soon as you join, just to recognize that you joined.
Nathan Bush: So cool.
Nathan Bush: And it really is a community because I think one of the things that you've done really well is you've created a Facebook group, a closed Facebook group, and it's only available for those who are registered beer club members. And the excitement on that group when a new parcel is due is just palpable. Like, people go crazy because they want to be the first to taste it and tell others what it tastes like. And then you've got the other end of the spectrum where people are, like, in regional areas and going, I still haven't got mine after five days. And they're genuinely freaking out. So you've got some people who are just frothing over how much they love what you've sent, and then some people just weeping because they just don't know when they're going to get theirs. It's a funny group, isn't it?
Steve Blick: It's amazing. And it's those bragging rights. People love it in beer, you know, like, I get it first, I'm straight onto social media and, you know, it's not rubbing up people's faces, but it is kind of like, hey, look at me, I've got it. Where's yours? So it does stir the pot and you got to be choiceful about when you jump in and when you don't. But it's good fun, mate. And we'll see that again in a couple of weeks with the next release.
Nathan Bush: Have you had any troubles moderating that group? Has it been time intensive?
Steve Blick: Yes and no. We don't want it to become a dumping ground for delivery challenges, because of course we're going to have those and there's been heaps of those in the last 12 months. We want you guys, if you've got a specific issue, to touch base with directly because that gives us the best chance to help you. We want to keep it about beer. We want to have fun, chat about beer. We've got Jess, our tasting manager, who's a certified cicerone. She can get on there and talk beer smack with you all day long. And we Do a bit of that. Our head brewer, Kiehls, jumps in there and shares some stuff. So we just keep trying to bring it back to beer. We don't want to wave the stick and tell people what to do. We're not in primary school anymore. But we just want to keep it about fun. Beer chat.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask, what's a certified Cicerone?
Steve Blick: Ah, yes. So Cicerone, it's the beer equivalent of a sommelier. So you can study wine to the nth degree and know all the ins and outs about how it's produced, all the flavor profiles, all the terroir, all of that stuff. You can do something similar for beer. And there's a couple stages of Cicerone certification and there's only the highest certification. There's, you know, there's less than 50 of those in the world. So it's a fairly intensive amount of knowledge retention that people need to know around beer and that beer education, that beer knowledge is important for us because it's. It's beer. Right. It's not just a product on a shelf. We're happy to be the experts and we want to be the experts on our craft.
Nathan Bush: Ever been tempted to become a Cicerone?
Steve Blick: I have the entry level Cicerone certification, so that's cool. The next level up is a bit more chunky to get my head into. So there's two or three people in the business that have that, but it's three people actually. There's Varenne, sales team leader, and then there's Jesse, who's our tasting room manager. And then there's Krista. So two out of three girls that know everything there is about beer. And it's. It's incredible what they can, you know, that they can come up with.
Nathan Bush: It's amazing. I think I've found my next career after E Sweep. We've gone off track. So let's get back. I thought it was fascinating there where you mentioned Bold and I know you've had some. It hasn't always been an easy subscription model, especially the billing monthly and then the sending every second month. But if we take a step back from that, you are set up. You're a Shopify site. Standard Shopify, not Shopify Plus. But you're also got WordPress as a CMS there. Can you tell us about that setup before we dive into Bold around how that works for you, having essentially two platforms running side by side.
Steve Blick: Yes. And it was an easy decision before we started bolting things on like Bold and everything else that comes with building an e comm. Business. But we've always used WordPress. It does an awesome job of the content. We put a lot of great content out there. We've got guys in the business that are great at creating awesome content. We've got a team that's familiar with WordPress and for us that stood out as still the best choice as a content engine. And so we didn't want to lose that by pushing everything over to Shopify. On the flip side, Shopify for us was the best choice to grow and E commerce side of the business and manage products and transactions and customers. And it's just that easy back end management that we wanted access to to kind of grow things without having to pull in developers. And so we couldn't choose between both of them. Between either of them. So we went with both of them is kind of how that ended up.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: And what have.
Nathan Bush: Because you are so. You do some fantastic content. You have for years. You built a beautiful brand based on all of that content, whether that be videos showcasing the region, going behind the scenes or recipes. And there's a whole bunch of stuff on there. What have been some of the challenges in making those two work together?
Steve Blick: Yeah, we always want to present a seamless experience at the front end. Right. And therein lies the challenge when you're using two platforms, when we are pulling people in through the content and taking them through the checkout on the other side. WordPress and Shopify don't always play nice. They both do things different ways. So trying to get them to talk to each other, trying to keep the front end looking the same when people jump between the shops so they don't feel lost or disorientated. It's the simple little things that seem simple but have a big impact on customer experience. Yeah, that's the juggle. And we're constantly aware of it and constantly looking at how we evolve it into the future.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's kind of been my experience with it. It's some of the things too that you don't think about until you actually put them side by side. So if you've got WordPress on the front end and you do a search on site, search in WordPress that it doesn't automatically obviously pick up your products and everything that's in your shop, which is a big issue.
Steve Blick: Right? Correct. Yeah. You end up doing a lot of things in duplicate, but you don't want it to feel like duplicate on the front end. So we have realized that we. Yeah, we've given ourselves a challenge trying to maintain it.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. And Tell us about some of the apps that you rely on with Shopify to run that successfully. You mentioned Bold before.
Steve Blick: Yeah, Bold's a big one for the B club. We also. People can also get test your recurring orders. If they just want a cart in the Pacific Ale to rock up every week or fortnight, they can do that. We use Bold for that as well. We use xlify more than with thought we would. Yeah. It's an app that allows us to export data, import data, whether that's customers, products, whatever it may be. It's really handy just to allow us to manage, manipulate things as we need to. Outside of that, we are really trying to keep things as simple as possible and use the tools available in the existing platforms. We've got a beer finder on our website which is, I think, a Bold product as well. We've recently switched that over. But other than that, we work with a great web developer who is able to build a lot of things into the website so that we don't have to go fishing outside the platforms to do what we want to do.
Nathan Bush: And in terms of warehousing. So I know that you've had a lot of changes to that recently. Well, not recently. In the last few years. Can you tell us about your journey around how you get your product to customers?
Steve Blick: Totally, mate. So we like to do things in house when possible. So being able to bring things in house just gave us a lot more flexibility. It meant that we could put personal touches on things, whether that's a little thank you note on a cart. And it meant that we could change things overnight if we wanted to. It meant that we kind of knew our customers more because we were the ones fulfilling their orders. And there's something really special about being able to deliver fresh beer from the brewery directly to people's front doors. You know, I get a kick out of that. I don't know if other people do, but we're a brewery and we brew beer. And to go straight from the brewery to someone's front door, you know, in as little as 24 hours, is pretty cool, pretty amazing.
Nathan Bush: And I've seen it when we've been down there is like. You literally have those cartons roll out of the brewery and into the courier van.
Steve Blick: That's it, mate. Yeah, it's a little bit romanticized, but it's good fun.
Nathan Bush: And before you were using 3 PL all around the country, is that right? And now all distributed out of one warehouse?
Steve Blick: Yeah, we were used three pl and for the scale we were at, it just didn't make sense to try to carry huge inventories to distribute sizes of shirts and keeping stock super fresh in half a dozen warehouses around the country just for the extra day or two in delivery efficiency that it gave us. So now we get to deliver the freshest beer. We get to keep all of our stock in one place and in time we might grow out of that. But for now the benefits outweigh that distributed 3 PL model.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, you mentioned merch there and obviously beer is your game and you've got some really strong followers and a great community. What role does merch play in the overall mix for you?
Steve Blick: It's a very small role, but it's a. Yeah, it's a connection and relevance thing as well. So you know, you mentioned it earlier, maiden we do have some really loyal customers and people that have been drinking our beer for a while and love it. And we're lucky enough that someone want to rep us out in the street by wearing a shirt or a hat or by grabbing a bottle opener or stubby cooler. You know, it's super cool that people want to represent us by buying some merch. So we are constantly looking at different ways we can put stuff out there that people want to grab.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. I love what do they call the coldy holdies that are made out of recycled wetsuit material?
Steve Blick: That's it. Yeah. So yeah, little coldy holdies made from the same factory that makes Patagonia wetsuits and brings all the wetsuits back to the factory, recycles them and we hit them up and yeah, we made some coldy holdies with them.
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Nathan Bush: What people may not realize is that you are an omnichannel model. Like, you're actually a really complicated model. When you look at the business setup around the beta B side, you've got B2B plus B2C. But you've also got breweries in Brisbane and Byron Bay where people can actually come in, taste, order, dine. What has been your biggest challenge around creating one experience in terms of an online and an offline experience to make sure they mirror up?
Steve Blick: Yeah. You want to solve that one for me? That'd be nice. It's hard, right? Like, we've got different markets, we've got different channels and we've got different offers that are relevant in different ways across those markets and channels. So we have by no means solved it. Please tell me if you know anyone that has. But we're working on it. It's a big part, consistent values across the team. It's a huge part that at the moment, because if we're all thinking and feeling the same way about the experience we want to give our customers, then we've got a better chance of. Of giving that rounded, consistent customer experience. But things like connecting the data between point of sale tills at the tasting rooms with the online, with the beer club, things like connecting through to people that come to our events, having that kind of one source of truth. I know it exists. I know some people do it really well. We're not there yet, but we are really conscious that that's going to add value to people. So we're working on it. Yeah, I don't think anyone solved it.
Nathan Bush: If it helps you sleep at night, I don't think anyone solved the optimal omnichannel experience.
Steve Blick: Yeah, that's it. But I don't think in a pure technical sense, I don't think it's solvable. Right. Because it's dynamic. Things change. People want different things from you in different ways. Ultimately, most things come back to really good customer service and customer experiences. And if you can do that, then people will forgive you for all the little technical glitches along the way.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. People.
Nathan Bush: And I think people, because you are
Nathan Bush: independent people, might be more forgiving than if it was a VB that went wrong for them. It's kind of like, well, I know there's real people behind this and it's a real place and it's. You've got that in your favor. You mentioned there around the team having to work together for a good omnichannel experience. One of the cool things that I think your founders have put in place is an employee share program. Can you tell us how that works?
Steve Blick: Absolutely, mate. So employee share program was set up quite early on in the business when the business was still pretty small. So setting that up just was recognition that the business is only going to succeed because of the people in it. And so being able to give back to the employees some of that value that's created in the business has been what that employee share program is all about. So we get, as an employee, you get offered shares in the business. You purchase those at 100% on a loan. Sorry, at 100% discount. The business actually loans you the money to purchase those. You don't pay interest on that loan. You pay it back if you ever cash those shares in. But as that share value hopefully goes up, then you as an employee adding value to the business get to benefit from that value increasing in the business.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Awesome. What has surprised you most about retailing alcohol online? That those in E commerce but in other industries may not realize some of the complexities around it.
Steve Blick: Ask that one again. So what have we realized about retailing booze online? That is complicated.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. You should actually host this show because you asked the question better than I did.
Steve Blick: Yep. Okay. Yeah, I think there's been a few learnings. Right. Like the complicated part of it. There's definitely an RSA responsible service of alcohol. We, we're sending beer to people's front doors. We don't want you to order it if you're under 18. We don't want you to order it if you're drunk. That's our responsibility. And we share that responsibility with the people delivering it to your door, the couriers. That's got complexity. And that's probably a case of the industry and consumers moving faster than legislation and governments and not avoiding our responsibility, but not being totally certain on how we meet that responsibility. So be really conscious of that. Mind you, if somebody's going to try to get cheap foods as a 16 year old, they're probably not going for a $75 carton of beer. That's all right. We still want to be responsible in that regard. Trying to understand where people want it, how they want it delivered, I don't think that's distinct to alcohol. But you open yourself up to everyone everywhere online. And trying to be all things to all people is an impossible task. So just trying to be relevant to the right people is a challenge. And then there's funny little things like complexity around packaging you know, beer is effectively already packaged in a carton. So do you add more packaging? How do you manage the fragility of glass? You kind of got to educate each other and the courier partner to be careful if you don't have a carton, if it's some beers in an unlabelled box, then how do you kind of make sure the brewery, the courier knows not to throw that over the fence and to kind of look after it with. Yeah, like it's glass. So all that funny stuff, mate, like, it's not all distinct to us, but it is. It's some of the challenges we've had.
Nathan Bush: Do you have a high breakage run?
Steve Blick: Surprisingly, not. Surprisingly not. And that's. I like to think that's part having a good partnership with a courier and being able to have that conversation that we are a big business, that if you drop it, it will break. Who's accountable, who's responsible for that? Let's work together to solve it, rather than just being another number on their list of deliveries. And then we have been able to put stickers and manage deliveries to try to avoid that as well. So a little bit partnership, a little bit education, a little bit adapting our packaging.
Nathan Bush: Are you able to share the courier
Nathan Bush: network that you do use?
Nathan Bush: Yep.
Steve Blick: Yes. We work with Aramex, formerly known as Fastway, and their model is interesting. So they franchise. So we work with a local depot that is a second generation family business and they run that depot and they bring all of our deliveries into that depot and then they distribute them out to the country, to the other franchises from. From there. So they are super keen to partner with us and try to solve problems and challenges that we're having. It can get tricky when you've got other franchise in other parts of the country for that last mile bit, trying to manage expectations and have some accountability there. But by the by, mate, they've been really good and we keep working with them to try to solve the challenges that crop up.
Nathan Bush: That's nice. It fits your local story as well, doesn't it, to be able to have local partners like that?
Steve Blick: 100%. Yeah. We don't need to be sending our beer to somewhere else in the country to get sorted and split and then sent back up the coast to someone a couple hours away from the brewery. If we can do that locally and set it out from there, then we're winning.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask one more thing on the things that are unique to alcohol? The age gate that goes on the front of alcohol websites, is that mandatory? Or is it a nice to have?
Steve Blick: It is mandatory, but again, it's one of those evolving things. It is mandatory because we are showing pictures of alcohol across our whole website. So we need to let you know up front that if you're under 18, you're not meant to be looking at those and you should leave the website. Yeah. We also try to catch it at the other end when it's been delivered and Fastway will check IDs when they deliver. So that's kind of how we manage that. We have probably going off topic, same topic, but different answer to the question. We have a self exclusion opportunity for people if they're not wanting to receive emails or hear comms from us. We can block them the same way you can block someone from a pub. We have RSA requirements on our website, our license on our website. So it's really a matter of best effort on this stuff across as many ways that you can to meet your responsibilities.
Nathan Bush: That's interesting.
Nathan Bush: Now we've got to wrap up.
Nathan Bush: Really grateful for your time. You mentioned at the start that you came into Stone and Wood because you got drunk and tweeted. The owners
Steve Blick: may have put a little
Nathan Bush: bit of sauce on that one.
Steve Blick: I definitely drank a couple beers.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. But that's probably going to end up as the headline now, so. Sorry.
Nathan Bush: Oh, good.
Nathan Bush: What is your favorite Stoner Wood beer? And as a follow up question, have the brewers let you go back to your brewing routes and brew your own beer?
Steve Blick: The second one's quicker to answer, so I'll say absolutely not. They and I both know that the beer would not taste as good if they let me at it. So, yeah, that's who that is. But my favourite beer, we brew a beer called Greencoast Lager and that's probably a default go to. And it's just crisp, easy drinking lager and I love that beer. But we have this thing in the brewery, we have a fridge, we have the staff beer fridge and we call it the overs and unders fridge. And it's where all the raggy dolls go. It's where the beers that have a scratch label, they're not quite to the fill height or they're over the fill height. They all end up in the star fridge. So that's always fully stocked. So that beer is in the fridge the same day that it was brewed and packaged. So it is the freshest beer you're going to taste. So to be able to take a couple of those home at the end of the day is a lovely privilege.
Nathan Bush: Oh, how good. Now tell us what is on your radar for say the next 12 months and what's exciting you around where E commerce is going on. Potential opportunities for stone and wood.
Steve Blick: You know we've talked about it in a roundabout way but it is trying to connect Those customer experiences 100%. So we know that it's important to us to have those direct experiences at events, which events are funny thing to try to organize in a Covid world at events in our tasting rooms and online. So connecting those experiences is a big one for us. Making sure the platform is the right platform as we continue to grow, whether it's a WordPress plus Shopify Forever or whether it's just one unified platform, that's another thing on the radar. Evolving the beer club and growing that to make sure that the people that want to be part of that are aware of it and have the opportunity to delivery is an ongoing forever task because it is growing and changing so quickly in Australia. So how do we continually make sure we've got the best delivery offer for what we're trying to do and for what our customers want? I think I put anything else on that list I'd probably self combust because they're all big chunky things in their own right. So yeah, that's where we're at.
Nathan Bush: Brilliant mate. And like you've made massive steps over the last two or three years already. And I always say to people, I always hold you guys up as people who just move at pace and you made some really big calls as soon as you made that decision to go into E commerce and you made the big calls straight up. You didn't kind of dilly dally around the edges. You went for the big items and got that set up. So you had really strong foundations from the start. So you guys are doing phenomenally awesome mate.
Steve Blick: It's a lot of fun. Hey, E comm is not, it's, it's not a distinct product based industry. It applies to all products and I've actually enjoyed just some similarities and how dynamic and how much energy there is in the E Comm industry similar to the beer industry as it's grown. So it's, it's a great place to be and a great opportunity to learn lots and take on some new challenges and opportunities.
Nathan Bush: Absolutely mate. How can people get in touch with you and how can people buy some of your beer?
Steve Blick: I'm Steve@stonenwood.com I'm at the brewery. So come knock on the door, we'll have a beer. You can jump online stonewood.com to grab some beer. You can come visit us in the tasting room. You can come do a tour, you can come meet a cicerone qualified person who can tell you anything you want about beer and some things you probably don't care about as well. But that's where we're at.
Nathan Bush: Beautiful.
Nathan Bush: Thanks for joining Steve.
Steve Blick: Cool, mate. Thanks, Bushy. Catch you soon.
Nathan Bush: As you are probably very well aware, there's no doubt that we're in an E commerce ecommerce gold rush right now. It seems like every other week there's
Nathan Bush: E commerce brands who are really cashed
Nathan Bush: up and ready to acquire their competitors or there's other industries which are looking in on E commerce ready to spend big dollars and make acquisitions. There's a huge amount of money out there. And so it's also been like that with craft beer, especially over the last five years. And I've got no doubt that the founders of Stone and Wood have had multiple offers over the years, but they've stuck true to their independence. And independence can be a really strong selling point for customers. It means that Stoner would have been able to stay true to their mission, their community and their customers. And I think you definitely hear that in the way that Steve speaks. Bigger isn't always better. And I think independence is actually a selling point that many independent businesses don't take the time to explain to their customers and use as a selling point. Now Steve has very generously put up for grabs a six month subscription to the Stone and Wood Beer Club. It includes a welcome pack with glasses, a cap and some beer and then a special counterculture brew delivered to your door every second month. It's hands down my favorite parcel that I receive. We released the competition in this morning's email, but in case you missed that or haven't yet subscribed, I'll let you in on it. Simply email us on hellodtocart.com with your favorite Stonewood beer and why you love it and you'll go into the draw. That's email through to hello at Stone and Wood. Not a Stone or Wood. Hello at add to cart.com don't email stone and Wood.
Nathan Bush: Whatever you do, don't email Stone and Wood. They don't want to hear from you.
Nathan Bush: Email hellodtocart.com with your favorite Stoner Wood beer and you'll go into the draw. We'll draw our winner at the end of this week on the 26th of March. Actually, this time next week we're going to be at Retail Global on the Gold coast literally on Monday next week and I can't wait. If you're going to make the trek there, please please let me know. It'd be great to catch up with old friends after such a long time of COVID separation.
Nathan Bush: It's going to be like a big
Nathan Bush: get together again and it'll be also
Nathan Bush: brilliant to meet new listeners in person.
Nathan Bush: So don't be shy. Shoot me a note@nathanadacart.com and I'll see you there. To finish up, I have three resources for you. Firstly, if you're a first time listener of Add to CART and you want to stay up to date with new episodes, head over to add to cart.com and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll let you know every time a new episode drops, as well as giving you my three takeaways from each episode and a link to the transcripts so you can know that this is an episode that you want to dive straight into. Secondly, if you want a weekly roundup of the best e commerce case studies, tools and research, sign up to the High Five Friday newsletter which is delivered to inboxes at 8am every Friday morning. I read all the e commerce news and send you the bits that I think you can take action from. Sign up at 12 high 12 h I g h.com au hi 5 and the last thing if you are looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, head over to esweettalent.com au we are a dedicated e e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with
Nathan Bush: the fastest growing brands.
Nathan Bush: Check it out. Sign up to the email and get in touch with me if you want to discuss your next move. Until next time, thanks for listening and keep those customers adding to cartoon.
