[Voiceover]: We're basically an analytics tool disguised as a creative playground. It's not to be an AI company, it's not to be a co creating company. It's to uplift consumers and then unleash commerce. This is your early advantage as a 15 year old to start building your LinkedIn profile. Welcome to Add to Cart, Australia's leading E commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy.
Nathan Bush: Hey, it's Nathan Bush or Bushy joining you from the land of the terrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. Wouldn't it be lovely if your customers spent more time on your website than they do on other platforms like TikTok or Snapchat or Tinder? Michelle Reeves is the co founder and the CEO of Zipline AI. It is a co creation platform that's changing the way that brands engage with their fans. And when Michelle says engagement, she's not talking about incremental bumps, she's talking about turning the standard 54 second scroll on a website into an 11 minute, fully immersive, fully engaging experience. That's 11 minutes on site. Through Zipline AI, little brands like Disney, Gucci, Hugo Boss are all inviting customers to to co create products with them such as building fantasy kitchens with branded wallpaper or even designing emotion inspired sneakers for movies like Inside Out 2. It's wild, it's a hell of a lot of fun and it has been founded right here in Australia. So if you've ever wondered what would happen when you put the power of AI design into the hands of your customers with your guardrails on it, keep on listening. Today, a big shout out to Shopify and Klaviyo for bringing this episode to you. And if you're enjoying the free content that we share across the Add to CART community socials or this podcast, we would love your support hit subscribe. To help us keep bringing you the best e commerce insights around and keep you ahead of the game, here's Michelle Reeves, Founder and CEO of Zipline AI. Michelle, thanks for joining us on Add to Cart. Brilliant to have you here. We've been trying to line up this chat for a while but you've been busy jet setting to some horrible places. We've like Europe for the last couple of months so thank you for being here.
[Voiceover]: It was a rough month, you know, a lot of gelato they put in front of you and then if it's not gelato it's cheese and wine. So I paid the price and now it's Time to hit the gym.
Nathan Bush: Well, I'm glad that for you and I'm sitting here in my home office not feeling as great about that, but good on you. Well done for that. Now, in doing our research for this, there were so many places that I wanted to kick off. But there was one quote that I came across on your LinkedIn profile, I think it was, and the headline, it just got me going. How like it got me intrigued. And it was increase user engagement from 54 seconds to 11 minutes. That's huge. 54 seconds to 11 minutes of any engagement on a website. Not an incremental jump at all. I want to understand what you mean by that and how it relates to what you're doing at Zipline AI.
[Voiceover]: We were kind of, I think shell shocked by the number as well. So what we found is when we did our early beta tests with Disney and Gucci, we realized that as people were on the site using Zipline to co design products with these brands, they were really very interested. I mean, it was very sticky. They just kept creating and creating and on average we saw that each user was spending just over 11 minutes co designing items using these very simple text prompts and generative AI. So it's clearly a high engagement, I guess, playground inside the brand's own website that we've created.
Nathan Bush: I love that, I love the word playground to start with, but also, you know, sometimes you are a bit skeptical of these stats. When someone says 11 minutes, it's like, or did someone just press play on a video and then walk away for 11 minutes? But you're literally saying engaged, using. And we're going to work out, we're going to talk about how that actually happens later in the conversation. But I can't let that last passage pass by without a bit of the name dropping that you just did there. You're just casually throwing out Disney and Gucci as some of your early clients. I know a lot of tech startups are out there trying to get their first, you know, users and it's usually friends or family that they can convince to have a bit of a play around. You are just dropping Gucci and Disney as early users. How does that come about?
[Voiceover]: I wanted to be really intentional because this is such a new kind of technology that we've built. I wanted to make sure that the iconic big brands like a Disney or Gucci would find value in it. I knew if we could get it right to their standard, it would be good enough now for everybody else. And you know, I think that that was really important. To me and the team to make sure that other brands coming on later would feel safe in the space. You know, AI is still exciting to me, but scary to other people. So when you've got these global brands taking these steps, it legitimizes it for everybody else. And I think it then kind of wakes up that next tier of brands who've been thinking about it and just needed a little extra, know, credibility box to check before they would dive in. And, you know, for us, that kind of proof and momentum is what was necessary to help get others to follow and try this kind of new AI technology for themselves.
Nathan Bush: And I mean, full credit to you and your team for getting such amazing case studies on early, but also full credit to them for giving it a go. It's a theme that we hear coming up over and over again, is that brands really want to get into AI, but there is a real risk barrier there, which is real, but also can go too far in terms of being left behind. Do you find it easier to get big brands to say yes to trying your platform, or is it actually easy to get the smaller players experimenting with AI?
[Voiceover]: So across the board, enthusiasm is very high. Whether you're a startup or you're at the enterprise level, everyone inside of these brands is, is thinking, looking or being told they need to look into AI. I think the difference is because of my background, you know, I'm not a college kid in a dorm with 10 others, you know, hacking away at things. I've got a fairly reputable background of working with these global brands before it allowed me to get that foot in the door and to have meaningful conversations. So when I put something in front of them, they knew my history. We've worked together, they've seen my work, it's proven. And so they're more inclined then to take a moment and really understand what we're doing. And I think for those brands, it was a really quick and easy yes because they've been looking for a credible way to enter into the space. And on the flip side, for smaller brands, they're looking for really interesting ways to leapfrog the big brands because they can't outspend them. You know, there's just no way they can compete in traditional marketing channels. So they are so hungry to discover something new that might get them to stand out and not just keep up, but just overtake as quickly as possible.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. Thank you. How do we bring this to life? Can you tell us how zipline AI works? Maybe talk us through an execution that you've done with one of your favorite brands, pick a favorite child.
[Voiceover]: What I'll do is I'll tell you actually why it even exists, because I think that kind of like connects the dots for why we're doing this with brands. And that was I've spent my entire kind of career working with brands to help connect them to consumers. And back in the day, it was social media with talent like Roger Federer, Tiger woods, when brands were wanting to connect with them in Facebook. And our talent would say, that sounds super scary. It sounds like a scam. No way. So I spent a lot of time educating our sports managers and agents and our talent about what to do there and kind of like obviously took them through that process. We now know where that's ended up today. And so more recently have, you know, gone through, you know, e commerce apps, Web3, you name it. But speaking with Fortune 500s about the future of commerce and this idea of collaboration kept coming up, they can see that consumers of the future, Gen Z, they don't just want to shop, they want to shape what's next. And that distinction kept coming up. And I looked at some numbers of the data of consumer behavior, basically, and this one stat came up and it just like hit me so hard. And that is, last year, gen Z spent 58 billion hours creating digital products and content. So what they're doing is they're using Mid Journey and Runway chatgpt, you name it. And they're creating all these branded assets without the brand's permission. And it's all basically counterfeit. But there's a ton of brand passion. You know, these people, for the most part, they're just having fun. They love Nike or Patagonia or Lululemon or whoever it is, and they're creating stuff. But there's nowhere to put it.
Nathan Bush: I was about to say, what are they doing with it? Are they selling it? Are they creating fashion? Are they doing anything?
[Voiceover]: AR filters just to create for their own socials, they're creating gaming skins. It could just be content that they're posting as part of their social feed. It's just fun. And when you realize they're doing this just for no gain, they just want to express themselves. There's something here.
Nathan Bush: So brand is part of their identity.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. And we realize that the brands are missing out on a huge gold mine of the data. You know, what are people putting into the prompts here? And also the connection. There's no relationship. How can we connect these super fans to the brands themselves? And so that's where Zipline was reborn. From was the idea of instead of having all of these people going to third party platforms, what if there was some portal, some thing on the brand's own website where people could, yes, shop the existing collection or actually start creating with the brand new and do it within the brand's own ecosystem. And that's what we do. So with very simple text prompts, people can come into the brand website and start creating anything. And the brands can decide if they want to put a design challenge up. If it's, hey, help us create, you know, a backpack for the summer, or if it's create anything. It could be crazy. We have some brands who are like, maybe that we could have them create a dream, you know, boat, a yacht, you know, what would that look like? And these are clothing companies. They're not in the boating business. But it's a fantastical way to just take the relationship to the next level with their big super fans.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. So I can see how you can get up to that 11 minute mark of engagement pretty quickly when you frame it like that.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. It's been wild to talk about where companies want to take it. So we've had brands in the food industry who of course want designs of food packaging, but we have food brands who are saying, no, no, we have a really colorful logo. What if we have people create their dream kitchen using all of our brand colors or a dream home interior? You know, what does it look like with our logo as the patterned wallpaper and rugs and home decor?
Nathan Bush: All I'm thinking about is like the Skittles house at the moment.
[Voiceover]: Yeah, exactly. And that kind of like really fantastical. They're not trying to make it seem realistic. It's clearly A.I. you know, it sparks the conversation. And for brands who know that they're spending so much time pushing content out there that they're paying to create it, they're paying influencers. This is a really easy way to turn your average website traffic into brand amplifiers who are going to come in, create and share and that costs you nothing.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. All right, can you talk us through an example? Because I've seen on your website some of the examples that you've got and I'm hoping that we can talk the Disney one, because I think that's really interesting.
[Voiceover]: The Inside out one, it was phenomenal. So we partnered on the Inside Out 2 movie and it was all about having users come and create a sneaker inspired by their favorite character, emotion. So people were creating, you know, sad sneakers and angry sneakers and joyful and all the things and it just took it from that character into a whole new dimension. A shoe. And people felt really proud. In all the testimonials and follow ups afterwards, people were expressing how amazed they were by their own creative abilities. And even though they knew they didn't actually create it, that it was generative AI, they still felt really personally connected, like, no, that's my sneaker, that's my shoe. And then they leveraged that, transferred to the brand. That brand affinity extended over back to Inside out and Disney, of course. And I think we just got to see discussions erupt in a new way. It gave people a reason to talk about Inside out long after the movie had left the theater.
Nathan Bush: And did Disney set the boundaries around that, that they necessarily wanted sneakers? And did they have assets in the background that would help design this in the shape and the form of characters along brand guidelines? Like, how does Disney put the rails around this?
[Voiceover]: We provide all those guardrails. So in that example, it wasn't, hey, everyone, come and create anything. It was really specific. So we refined the model. We basically train a custom model to be just on sneakers and, you know, not just shoes in general, but sneakers more specifically. And then we trained it on just the guardrails of the brand IP for the Inside out characters or the guidelines, you name it. So, for example, if somebody typed in, you know, a Nike Angry High Top sneaker, Nike would not actually pop up in that example because that's not an approved IP that's been trained on. So the user would have kind of a thanks, but no thanks. Here's a sneaker result, but it doesn't have the swoosh and there's no brand confusion. So that's kind of what Zipline is. We are that layer that provides all the guardrails. But yeah, we work with them to then decide, is it going to be backpacks or T shirts or in this case, the sneaker.
Nathan Bush: So cool. Some of the designs are awesome. They're wacky, they're wild. And I could just imagine, like, I think there's something fun in that example, because it's that idea, even if it's not real, of having this rack of shoes of all different six, seven different emotions. You go, which emotion am I feeling today? Like, which shoes am I going to put on?
[Voiceover]: And the commercial side of it is, you know, like, that's fun. But I think this is where, you know, that next piece, you know, reveals itself is we're basically an analytics tool disguised as a creative playground. So while all that fun is happening over there in The Disney example, what we talked about them that they would like to do with this in the future is unlock rewards for people. So every time you come in and you create something, whether it's a shoe or whatever the challenge is, it's, hey, Nathan, thanks so much for creating this. We love what you've done. You've just unlocked 15% off to shop our current collection valid in the next 24 hours. Here you go. Or personalize even more, Nathan. We see that every time you are designing, you've always got lime green and navy stripes. Here's a curated collection of our current collection that's navy and green. We think you'll love it, and we'll give you free shipping for the next 48 hours. So it just gives brands now a really hyper personalized way to convert a sale with data that's so relevant for that user that you're more likely to see it actually pay off than a general email. Hey, everyone, it's summer. Here's 10% off to shop our collection. Yeah, that doesn't feel connected.
Nathan Bush: You're actually scaring me because as a Camber Raiders fan, I wear a lot of lime green and navy blue. So I'm like, what do you know about me? So from the that perspective, I was thinking about it the other way is there. So if you're saying, great, you've created your wildest dreams and it's, you know, you've put your personalized touch on it, and then you want them to actually shop the standard range in your store, is there a way to keep up that excitement? Because I could imagine that if you're creating something that's all yours and you're fully invested in it and you love what you've created, and you're like, actually go choose from One of the 10 shirts that we've created that's available to to everyone, it's like a different level of experience. Is there a way to kind of go from that excitement into the standard
[Voiceover]: range when you come to brands, particularly in fashion? Because that's definitely, you know, on the back of everyone's mind to message something on the lines of like, hey, thanks for submitting this. We're sending it to the design team and we'll let you know if it makes a social contest where people can vote or maybe this will be a filter one day. So we definitely encourage our fashion customers to think about messaging that with some kind of weight attached of like, the design team is going to see this, and we think you're awesome.
Nathan Bush: That's cool. What Are the other ways that you're taking some of those creations and socializing them to kind of keep building the hype and reward people for their creations.
[Voiceover]: Customers or brands who are looking at doing that, they're socially validating what people are creating to almost guarantee the next bestseller. And so we don't, we don't do that part of the relationship in terms of like talking to their customers. We give the brands the tool for people to create and all the back intel of, you know, what prompts people are using, what was created in those images. We definitely help the brands think about, okay, what next? How can you do it? And the idea of having social validation where they will put that out onto their social feeds or have influencers maybe vote every week on, hey, we've been seeing what you guys are submitting. You know, I love this and this one. That kind of recognition, we know, actually pays off really well, you know, if somebody that I admire as an influencer or a content creator called out, Michelle, I love your design. You submitted last week. Super cool. Oh, I got tagged. I got noticed. You. You see me?
Nathan Bush: Yes.
[Voiceover]: You see me. You know, that's. That feels good in that relationship. So we really try to give some guidelines for how they can best use these tools and maximize the social content. Get some social voting and maybe if you're a company that's set up for it, put a top design in production. You know, nothing says, we see you. Quite like, hey, we're going to put the top 10 T shirts or bags into our next collection.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And I think it's important too, isn't it? Is like, you don't have to have your customers create products necessarily. I like the example you gave of turn our brand into your dream home. So I could imagine that the amount of ideas that are coming across your desk at the moment for brands wanting to stretch the boundaries is pretty incredible.
[Voiceover]: A sports team in the US that we're running demos for right now, and they have a big cruise partner as one of their sponsors. And we're talking about how people could create suites inside of the cruise to be themed as the team. Like the ultimate fan experience on a cruise liner sailing around the world, fully decked out, customized for this team. And, you know, it's so fantastical. And that just gets people talking. And, you know, I think a big part of all marketing challenges is getting your customers to talk about you for you and even without you.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Especially when you don't have to commit to the execution of it. So there's so many ideas out there that customers want to see brought to life. Are they always brought to life in still images, or are you generating video as well?
[Voiceover]: Currently just still images. We have had some discussions about further in our roadmap of adding things like video and AR filters. Again, for fashion, especially when you've created something, the payoff might not be that you have to manufacture it for your customer, but maybe people could download it as an AR filter and share. Whether it's a free Download or it's 99 cents, depending on the brand and your customer, you know, there's definitely some digital opportunities there for brands to drive real revenue.
Nathan Bush: It must be hard because you just must get ideas coming at you left, right, and center on what this could turn into, especially as AI develops so quickly. How do you pick and choose what you say yes to?
[Voiceover]: I, of course, on every call, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then my team and I go back and talk about, like, okay, yes, in 2026, yes, in 18 months. So having to provide that, you know, extra layer of reality is, you know, my least favorite part of the job I could imagine.
Nathan Bush: And is it hard for you to pick where AI will be at in 2027, 2028? Or are you. Have you got a rough idea?
[Voiceover]: Yeah, I think it'll be extraordinary. I think the outputs and the quality will continue to just become phenomenal. I think I've learned enough to know that you don't know, because I go back to the social media days and when we had our top athletes connecting with brands and doing collaborations in Facebook. I remember there was a brand who said, okay, we're going to do this with Roger Federer, but it's just for three months. We just want to test it for three months, and then you're going to shut it off. We're very, you know, conservatives. Let's just put some very tight rails on this thing. I'm like, that's fine. Three months. Great summer campaign. It'll be fine. And at the end of the three months, wouldn't you know it, they're like, wait, we started a conversation with all of these people on Facebook. We can't close the door on them. We can't shut it off. What do we do now? And I think that's kind of what we're seeing. Like, we're going to open a door to something, and we're going to invite people in. And I think what we need to do is just continue to be great hosts, read the room, understand how people can best interact in the space that we're creating here for brands and customers and just keep making sure that we're delivering best in class, whatever that interaction is. I go back to what our core mission is, to zipline. It's not to be an AI company, it's not to be a co creating company. It's to uplift consumers and then unleash commerce. And everything we do will fall very focusedly, very narrowly in that.
Nathan Bush: I love that. Uplift consumers and unleash commerce. Tell me about that from a Gen Z and Gen Alpha perspective. Because you mentioned those audiences when you were coming up with the idea. How do you feel that those generations will shape what the online shopping experience will look like in 5 years, 10 years time?
[Voiceover]: I think it's already happening. You know, like, I'll tell you this, when I was 10, I'd never heard of Gucci. You know, my kids age 9, they knew exactly what Gucci was. In fact, I remember I was holiday shopping with my 9 year old son and he went past the store, the designer, Balenciaga. I only learned how to say that brand when I was 35 and my 9 year old says, mom, mom, can we get a Balenciaga? I was like, sure, happy to. Let's go on in. And we walk in and he goes straight up to the sales team and he says, do you have the Fortnite T shirts? And they're so happy. They bring out these Fortnite T shirts and they're nothing. These T shirts look like they're from Kmart. They're primary colors, red, yellow, green, blue. And they just say Fortnite on them. It's a Fortnite logo. I could take that down to like the local Westfield and get that screen printed on and it's a $1600 Fortnite T shirt. And my son starts trying them on. I'm like, oh God, this kid needs to know that there's not enough pocket
Nathan Bush: money in the world.
[Voiceover]: No, nothing. And I think to myself, how am I going to explain Not a chance. In a very polite way in front of the staff. And it turns out I don't need to because he says to them, okay, so if I get the red shirt, do I get the red skin in the game versus if I get the yellow shirt or the blue shirt, do I get the blue of yellow skins that are in the game? And they say, no, no, no, those skins have sold out. This is just the T shirt. T shirt comes off, who wants the shirt? I just thought it was a back door to get those skins because they sold out overnight because the time zone of the release here is not great. I was like, what, so you don't actually want the shirt? It's the digital asset has value. So.
Nathan Bush: Oh, I just had this conversation with my son this morning. We were getting into the car to go to school and he's like, guess what? It's my birthday in 17 days, whatever it was. And I'm like, yeah, I know that, but. And he's like, well, what's going to happen is that Fortnite are going to send me a present. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, I get a present on my birthday. I can't wait. It's the most excited, like, the thing that I'm most excited for. And in my old head, I'm like, oh, maybe they'll send you a cap or something like that. And he's like, no, it's a brand new skin and I don't know what skin it is. I can't wait. So it actually holds more value. Like he doesn't care what we're going to buy him.
[Voiceover]: He.
Nathan Bush: He's more excited around what's going to drop into his account in a virtual world.
[Voiceover]: The digital value is really high for this generation. And not only is it the digital piece, but it's the collaborative. It's so native to them to collaborate in Minecraft, in gaming and in school, too. All of these programs kind of come together in this communal way where you're shaping things together, where you have a voice, you have a say. Nathan, I'm sure you grew up the same way that I did with children are seen and not heard. It has been flipped. Now parents are seeing.
Nathan Bush: Can we go back to that?
[Voiceover]: They're used to having a voice. They want a voice. And we're at the place where TikTok and Instagram trained us to be their marketing team. And we do it for free. We take a selfie and we tag what we're wearing, we tag the restaurant we're in. And we are their free marketing team for life. Our kids have no interest in doing that. They want a say in the product, the communications about the product, how it's made, how it's sold, when it's sold, the price, everything. They want to be an authentic part of the culture of the brand.
Nathan Bush: And is that scary for some of the brands? Like, I love the analogy you gave there, around talking to Roger Federer's team, around opening up social, and then all of a sudden it's this base that's just out of their Ownership essentially does that scare brands? When you start giving customers a say and start going okay, cool over to you, what do you want to see? And then there is that implied pressure of well, maybe what we're giving them isn't good enough. When I look at what they're actually
[Voiceover]: creating, I think savvy brands are going to have to let them in. And it doesn't mean that they're all going to let them in in the same way. You know, I think there's different rules of engagement. Designer brands, they're not going to make things that I create on their website, but for me to feel like they see me, that might be enough. Or for them to maybe give me exclusive access to shopper collection before anybody else, that might be enough for a customer versus, you know, brands like a Uniqlo or H and M, they're used to being, you know, pumping out product constantly. They're going to have to engage their community in a very different way. Local community collections or recognition or gaming skins, you know, I think that's going to be a different way that they have to engage. I don't think you can avoid it. If you want to stay relevant, you have to let them in.
Nathan Bush: Anyone who's had a personal trainer knows that whatever targets you set, they're going to raise them. So when Nutrition Warehouse looked to engage Klaviyo, it wasn't just about sending emails effectively. They tasked them with increasing revenue, driving awareness and building customer lifetime value. That's a spicy set. But Klaviyo were up for the challenge by creating the right email flows triggered by customer actions. Using geotargeting for their 110 stores and using predictive analytics to target high value customers with personalized offers, they proved that they were up to the challenge. Smashed it in fact with a 47% year on year year increase in placed order rate on email flows and a Klaviyo Roi of 50 Times Nutrition Warehouse remain ahead of the pack. To explore how Klaviyo can grow your E commerce business and to see more case studies like this, visit klaviyo.com au and the brands that you're talking to when you give them that stat around 11 minutes engagement on site, are they getting excited by it because they see engagement as a pathway to conversion for that customer? Or are they truly understanding that engagement means that it's like a lifetime value and a brand investment? Play that over time. Your 10 year old son, my 10 year old son, maybe when they're 30, when they're 40 they can afford what they're actually falling into now, do they see it as a long term play or are they hoping that it converts?
[Voiceover]: So one it's actually requires a little bit of untraining because all of the current marketing teams and ECOM teams have had to train their financial models to rely on influencers and content creators. So most sales happen outside of their ecosystem and they don't get any data from that. They're not getting any insight other than just basic conversion. Okay, if we, you know, send a sweater to this person, we'll get 10,000 views which converts to, you know, 300, add to carts which then gives us five sales. So they've really got to think about now. Hang on, what if we owned the experience now from start to finish? Because they haven't been owning the experience and that I think can be, you know, a little unknown for younger marketing teams for older, more established legacy brands. I think they're really excited, like yes, bring them back to us. We want to own everything. And now it's just, you know, discussing how, what's the best way to do it?
Nathan Bush: And you've given some great examples of brands like I'm in awe of the brands that you're working with, from Hugo Boss to Disney to Gucci. When we bring this back to an Australian context, is it affordable and accessible for retailers and brands in Australia who might be playing at that mid market level?
[Voiceover]: So I think our first customer was a challenger brand. I think it's extraordinary to think about this in parallel. So no one has been doing co creation tools the way we're doing it until April 3rd. Nike launched it in the US. So Nike launched Air Imagination which people, it's kind of Geo blocked. So sadly we can't see it here in Australia. But over there you can go on and you can, with a few simple text prompts, create your dream Air Max shoe. And they're doing it purely for all that intel. All the prompts give them great data. There's no physical shoe, there's no download, there's no filter, there's no nothing. At the same time that was happening, I was talking to a small challenger brand that hasn't gone live yet here in Australia. And we're offering our product for a few hundred dollars a month versus the millions that Nike has poured into a tool that they're not going to share with anyone. Yeah, so we, we've really thought about our tiered pricing so that this can be a solution for the 99% for everyone else. And ultimately our goal is that we're an add to cart product ourselves. You come onto Zipline and you just pick the package that makes sense, add it to your Shopify and there we go. That's the long term vision for us is very much just like every website has a search bar, in the future every website will have a create bar and that's what we will power.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome. And is the pricing based on a monthly subscription or is it based on number of images generated? Like how do you structure that so
[Voiceover]: it's the traffic and image generated so it's pretty simple. And then also on the number of custom engines. So if you're just one brand or if you're a multi brand and there's different number of engines we have to custom train.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. And from how you've seen it work best integrated into websites, do you find that it's best integrated into the homepage or do you find that you've got to create a whole new landing page for it or you put in the product page. Where does it work best?
[Voiceover]: It might be a bit too early to give such directive advice on it, but I think it's going to be wherever you're engaging most with your customer right now. So if you are really reliant on TikTok and socials, which most brands are, then having that as a link in your link tree or as the link in your stories, you know that's going to be the most organic place to put it. So you put the link wherever the most eyeballs are and just get people to the site and it's just a landing page within your own website.
Nathan Bush: I love that too and I love what you were saying around making it a campaign of sorts. I don't love the word campaign, but in terms of if you've got a design challenge out there, how do you not just have it on your website and have it as a nice thing, but how do you integrate it into all your content across all your channels so that you're surfacing the best designs, you're integrating with your influencers and it's really this content engine and community engine that just keeps giving back. So it's not just a website play.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. And one great example is this is a beverage company in the US where they have a huge sampling initiative and so every year they know that particularly for beverages, they've got to hit certain sampling metrics to know that it'll convert to sales. We're working with them right now to create a design challenge so that on 400 campuses and around US colleges people will come in and they're going to do a quick, you know, type of prompting on the, on the iPad. Nathan v. Michelle. Design a new wrapper around our can and then everyone votes in real time. Whoever votes, great. You've now want a case of this to take back to your sorority or your fraternity house.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome.
[Voiceover]: And that's how they're creating more interest around sampling versus just trying to hand it out.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. Nice. I know that on your site you're still. It's open for beta testing, is that right?
[Voiceover]: We're onboarding our first customers, which has been wild in the past few months. They're all going, yeah, it's a busy time for our team right now. So definitely the best way to get in touch is through signing up on the website and then our team can reach out.
Nathan Bush: Love it. All right, cool. I'm so curious. We had a great chat a couple of months ago and we found a bit of a common passion around education and upskilling those in the industry. I know that you lead Women who Innovate. Can you tell us more around how you try and give back and share your experience back to others?
[Voiceover]: This is like my core passion. I think this is my secret agenda for everything I'm doing. I just want to put more power into more people's hands, particularly for women who are often left out of the room. You know, it's just the basic stats of industry, particularly in tech. But women who Innovate came about because I've lived most of my life in the US And I realized there the cross collaboration of executives and industry was really natural because all these events constantly happening, the events are always free. You meet people and they're just so willing to open their network to you and make introductions. I came to Australia, where I'm from here originally, and I realized that that wasn't happening as organically. And it was really hard to meet people. It was very siloed. You know, there's tech events, there's finance events, there's retail events, but how does anyone meet anyone to then build, grow, innovate anything? And so, in talking to some other women here that I have worked with across different industries in sports and impact and Web three, we thought, let's just build this ourselves. And so Women who Innovate was born really organically. We held our first event back in 2023 during a time when south by Southwest was launching. And I love, I love south by Southwest, but it's a really high ticket. You know, it's a few Thousand dollars. And it's mostly top executives who are mostly men who can go. And for the average mid tier woman or student, that's so unattainable. So we thought, okay, let's put together a full day, 30 guest speakers, make it free, see who wants to come. We had 250 people sign up. We had another 350 people on the wait list. We had the founders of sir the label. We had the head of digital for Mecca. We had Cartier. We had the head of marketing for modibody.
Nathan Bush: That's awesome.
[Voiceover]: It was insane. And to see so many of these executives wanting to give their time to come and speak to this room of people. We then at the end of the day, I heard this clicking. And if you're an Aussie, you probably don't know what that really means, but in America, clicking is snaps. Snaps means like great stuff. Like, we're here, we're celebrating. And I was like, wait, there are Americans in the room? And I look over and Chance the Rapper has come into our event with his entourage. He left his keynote at south by Southwest and came and spoke because we had invited his co founder for his foundation, an incredible woman. And she was speaking and he was like, I wanted to see what this room of women were doing who couldn't make it to south by Southwest. What's this event? And so it's like, great, come talk.
Nathan Bush: Good.
[Voiceover]: So that just really kind of sealed the deal of like, okay, there's something here. We've got to keep providing as many events as we can to women. And actually they're open to anyone. Men come too. That has to be free. It has to be an accessible way that people can come and not another ticket that you're having to pay for. And then you organize babysitters and like, just, no, let's do it, we can.
Nathan Bush: Shopify is committed to keeping their merchants at the cutting edge of innovation. And the features released in their Summer 25 edition are no different as they give brands the tools that they need to work smarter today and thrive in the future. For example, Shopify's AI tool Sidekick just got a lot more smarter. It's able to synthesize data from multiple sources simultaneously. Moving beyond basic Q and A to solve complex business challenges, they've also made scaling globally even easier. With Shopify payments, you can now manage various business entities and settle up in multiple currencies from a single store. And for instore POS has been redesigned, making the day to day experience for retail staff easier with improved search, intuitive navigation And a more flexible card. Check out over 150 features that have been released by searching Shopify Summer 2025 Edition. And so you rely on a partner ecosystem to support that, to bring it to life.
[Voiceover]: Exactly. Pack.com support Mastercard, Coinbase, Google. Really so happy to see that there's corporate partners stepping up to help make that possible.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. And you mentioned students there, which I think's really interesting. And I think there's a huge opportunity in Australia, especially with innovation and tech. I see it in E commerce all the time that E commerce is just not a skill that's taught in unis at all really. And we're what, 30, 40 years into E commerce now. I know that you're doing work with QUT at the moment. Can you share how you're helping students approach innovation and also what you get out of that? Because I could imagine that they would help you unlock new ideas as well.
[Voiceover]: I'm on the advisory board for QUT for their business school and I more provide insights into what I'm seeing happen around the world in the industry so that the faculty can think about those micro credentials as well as the MBA program. I think where I'm really most passionate is there's a high school that I teach at and it's for an all girls school. They're grades 10 to 12 and they're in this entrepreneurial class. And I think you're right. Like it was kind of shocking to me at first to realize that they didn't have some of the basics down. They weren't being taught the language of E commerce. So my first class every year is, let's go through the acronyms here, aov, cac, you know, ltv, roas, you know, all the things just so you can speak the speak. Because you want to be taken seriously here, you want to run your business seriously here, you need to know these metrics. It's not just profit and loss. Like to get your accountant, you need to now understand the tech speak of your business. You think you're in the business of selling hoodies and water bottles. You're not. You're in the business of eyeballs into conversion.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: And so, you know, I think what I get mostly out of that is it lifts my spirits to see this youthful energy and belief in, you know, what's possible. We want to create stuff. I hear their ideas, they pitch their ideas. We have Q and A about that. So it actually fuels me back in my daily grind of like, huh, okay, keep that inner child alive, Michelle. Like the inner child of you is like focused on the big vision. Don't give up. Whereas I feel like I impart to them the Debbie Downer of reality. So you know that it's going to take this, right?
Nathan Bush: You want to go and design some cool new hoodies? Actually, no, you've got to learn about
[Voiceover]: CAC and you will like it.
Nathan Bush: Yes.
[Voiceover]: Yeah.
Nathan Bush: So I had a pretty similar experience and we discussed this because I did a bit of work with Parramatta High School, teaching through some e commerce concepts. But as part of that, we do activities where you've got to study a retailer and then come up and pitch a new idea. And that to me was so refreshing because they asked all the questions that I think a lot of professionals are too afraid to ask. So I was able to kind of amend some of our materials for the unasked questions. But also there's not this lens of, well, this isn't possible, this is going to cost too much. This won't integrate with this. It's just like as a consumer because everyone shops. So when you're 16, you've got a good idea of what the experience looks like. I would like to see this and I would expect this. And for me that was really interesting to see that future generation in the expectations and what they think is possible and easy to do.
[Voiceover]: I try really hard to bring in guest speakers to all of my sessions. So for example, last time I had the founders of Rally, which is Pat Rafters new company, like a tennis racquetball inspired by the clothing company Mingle Seasoning Cool and Kalani Kinis and firstly like huge shout out to those brands because they gave their time, they do it and they have the same great generosity of like, let's help the next generation. But it was. They were really real about it too, you know, like to talk about like the warehouse and the chaos that goes on and when orders totally get go awry or when tariffs are now coming in and totally upending your business plan and your model is now tanking because of it. Like they were just so, so real. And it allowed us to touch on different ways too, that retail isn't just any one model. You know, when you've got Rally, how can you use celebrity endorsements? When you've got Mingle Seasonings, it's a commodity that no one's been thinking about in the seasoning aisle for decades. How do you create interest in a boring, you know, quote unquote category? So I love that those kinds of guest speakers can just give some, like, hard facts, some real stories and make it feel really approachable. And then I encourage everyone, like, follow them on LinkedIn. Connect on LinkedIn. This is your early advantage as a 15 year old to start building your LinkedIn profile and connecting with people that now others will see that you've got them in your network. That's the game changer. When you start applying for jobs, do that now.
Nathan Bush: Goodness me, if I spent my time on LinkedIn at 15 instead of drinking Goon on the beach, I'd be in a much better place, wouldn't I?
[Voiceover]: We'd be in Italy, we'd be drinking. Drinking expensive wine on beautiful hills overlooking lovely oceans.
Nathan Bush: Exactly. Learn from our mistakes, kids. I want to tie back to your amazing career because I'm so inspired by your journey. Because we talked about social and I'm sure there was a career even before that, but social into things like crypto and blockchain. I know that you were deep in those areas and now into AI. And this is kind of the helicopter view, obviously, but there's obviously a thread there around innovation. How do you approach innovation in terms of do you feel like all those things are connected or are they separate pieces that are out there in the world when we look at where we're going in digital? Or do you see that there's a common thread that's tying them all together and evolving over time?
[Voiceover]: That's a common thread. If I think back, God, I feel like a really old person now. I think back, oh God. To the 1900s. So my first ever company was one of the first E commerce wine companies in the US selling wine back in, like, early 2000s was weird, but I wanted to empower people who couldn't come to California Vineyards. The same thing with social media. I felt like that was empowering people to have a connection. Blockchain. It's all about decentralization and empowering the individual. I think if I'm going to really take this, like, reflection moment. I'm a kid from Cornuvia. That's Logan in Brisbane. Okay. Logan represents, I gotta tell you, like, best founders come out of Logan. Savage Garden came out of Logan.
Nathan Bush: Lskd.
[Voiceover]: Yes. I just discovered that he and I grew up like two streets from each other and went to the same primary school.
Nathan Bush: What?
[Voiceover]: I just learned that. Yeah, but I think it's when you're on the outside or you think you're on the outside looking in. I was always like the kid in Logan who's like, oh, my God, like America. Oh my God. Europe. Oh my God. Like these big companies, sports like I was 16. On my whiteboard I had written down, open a restaurant, own Manchester United, own a fleet of yachts, know how to sail those yachts. You know, start a media company. Like, I was like, I was looking into all these windows of worlds that I was like, I want to do all of it. And I think when you are from Logan, like, you, you've got no pride. Like, you're like, I'm just going for it. Like, people are going to think of me, whatever they're going to think of me and I am just going to like, I'm doing it. Check pride at the door. I'm going to walk into rooms I don't belong in, I'm going to ask the dumb questions and I'm going to figure this out. And you just kind of like, have this like, I don't care determination in a really, like, nice way, like, respectful way.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
[Voiceover]: But like, I have to see it. I want to go into the window, I want to go into the room and you just do. And so, I mean, power.
Nathan Bush: People could go two ways though, right? You could have your approach or you could go, well, this is the world that I belong in and this is what I know and this is where I should be. There must have been something pretty special in you to be able to go, actually, fuck all that. I'm going to bust out of that. I've got bigger dreams, bigger ambitions.
[Voiceover]: I think that's where the empower piece comes. For those who think that they do belong in a world that they were just, you know, put into, I'm like, no, no, I want to empower you, let you know that you can too. Like, if I can make it easier, it's been a long, long ride for me to do this. If I can make it easier and faster, then yes, I would love to do that for others. So I don't know, I think at the heart of everything I'm doing, while it might seem weird, from wine to social media to sports to blockchain and now to this, it's really at the heart just empowering everybody to be able to have a voice and a presence.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. And you are doing that. And I love your work. I love everything that you're doing. Tell us about the next 12 months for Zipline AI. What's on your priority list?
[Voiceover]: It is game freaking on. It is like build and chase customers and deliver world class product and learn when we've got it wrong and keep focusing on when we get it right. So yeah, for us it is just listen and learn and we need to be obsessive about it.
Nathan Bush: Amazing.
[Voiceover]: That's it. That's the boring focus of my next 12 months.
Nathan Bush: Obsessive focus. All right. If people have learned about this we've talked about before on the website, if you're interested and you want to see what it can look like on your site, you can go straight to the Zipline AI site and sign up for the beta testing that's available at the moment. What are the other ways for people to learn more or get, get in touch?
[Voiceover]: I think LinkedIn is great. You know, I, I try to respond within 24 hours to everybody and all the DMS there, but I think LinkedIn is great. That's pretty much it. I mean, LinkedIn is the portal to all of our professional universes.
Nathan Bush: I agree. Especially if you create it when you're 15 years old. Yeah. But I can highly recommend, go onto the Zipline AI website. We'll have the link in the show notes here and have a look at those initial examples from Disney and Gucci and Hugo Boss. Because it's one of those products that, yes, we can talk about it here and you've explained it really well. But sometimes it's not until you see the creations that are being made and how imaginative and how involved customers can be with those brands that it really brings it to life and really sparks ideas for what that could look like in your own business. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cart.
[Voiceover]: A lot of fun, Nathan. Anytime.
Nathan Bush: Well, it was a bit of a ride, wasn't it? I love when we hear about founders in Australia who aren't settling for step by step. They actually know they've got something big and are working with brands like Disney, like Gucci, to bring them to the masses straight out of the gate. But I also love that it's available to everyone. How cool is that? Here are the three big takeaways that I took away from this chat with Michelle. Number one, co creation is the new conversation. Michelle's whole thesis is that when customers get to co create, they stick around and eventually they end up buying. Sure, it's a long game, but it's a game that we know works. The principles haven't changed in hundreds of years. Zipline isn't just a fun gimmick. It's an engagement engine that's outperforming TikTok on session times and turning fans into brand builders. If you've ever wondered what it would be like to bring your customers into the design room, this is a way to do it. Number two, Gen Z and Gen Alpha. They want to say this generation isn't just tagging brands and uploading drunken photos on social they actually want to shape brands with you. Michelle's son was won't pay $1,600 for a designer tee, but it'll chase digital Fortnite skins like Treasure. I know that feeling. The brands that let the younger generations in on their terms will win big in the long run. And number three, you don't need a Gucci budget to play. Don't be fooled. Zipline isn't just for the global luxury brands. For a few hundred bucks a month, even Aussie mid market retailers can play in this co creation space. Think about design prompts, personalized offers and data that actually reflects your customer's passion. The biggest thing holding you back here won't be dollars, it'll be imagination. A massive thanks to Michelle for taking us behind the curtains of Zipline AI and how they are working with such amazing clients and bringing that to us on Add to Cart. Don't forget, if you want more of the good stuff, come and join me and hundreds of other e commerce legends in the Add to Cart community. It's over on add to cart.com to sign up. We would love to have you in the mix. And while you're here hit that little subscribe button so you don't miss a thing. Catch you soon. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep those customers Adding to Cart.
