James Fisher: It was really our love from E Commerce that really brought about Render.
Greg Liebowitz: What differentiates us is really this technical or this fulfillment platform that we have built where we aggregate all these different couriers and carriers.
James Fisher: That's what happened in the payment space. When you look at the buy now, pay later space, customers drove that need and I think it's going to happen in the delivery space as well.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to ADD to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers Adding to Cart.
[Ad]: Hello and welcome to Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, host of add to cart and director E Commerce
Nathan Bush: talent agency E Suite.
[Ad]: Now I've had my fair share of tradies come through my house over the last 18 months.
James Fisher: Months.
[Ad]: Everything from a major renovation through to probably the most important project I've done
Nathan Bush: in the last 18 months.
[Ad]: A TV on my back deck. Yes, I know that's very Queensland Bogan of me, but don't judge. However, today's guests actually had Tradies help them dream up something much, much bigger than what I had in mind. Co founders Greg Liebowitz and James Fisher started render back in 2018 as a side project after spending their gap year in one of the leading tech hubs of the world, Israel. But it was their tradie mates that inspired them to develop their business, Render, a technology fulfillment platform providing same day delivery solutions for retailers. Render now has clients such as Aussie Disposals and Chemist Warehouse and has attracted investment from the likes of Ahmed Foer, ex CEO of Australia Post and Stephen Lu, Chairman of Global Retail Brands. In this chat, Greg and James discuss the importance of the local factor in their success. They also talk about why they believe delivery advancement is customer driven and how they're taking Click and Collect to new levels of awesomeness. Now Render caught my eye at this year's Retail Global on the Gold coast where I got chatting to the team on the trade floor and while they are at a very, very early stage, I was impressed by the vision of their young founders and the investment they've already attracted and I want to share that with you. So thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio. Here's our conversation with Greg Leibowitz and James Fisher, co founders of Render.
Nathan Bush: James and Greg, welcome to ADD to cart.
[Ad]: Now we met at Retail Global on
Nathan Bush: the Gold coast earlier this year. Was it your first retail global?
Greg Liebowitz: That was our first event and it was super exciting to get out there, you know, it was just after Covid and to see everyone in the space together. It was awesome to be there and yeah, it was good to meet you. Then Nathan was.
Nathan Bush: It was and I loved hearing about it and can't wait to bring our listeners more about Render today. Any first impressions about the retail community that you picked up from Retail Global apart from the drinking?
Greg Liebowitz: I think in Australia specifically it's quite a small e commerce space. So the people that you see at Retail Global, we saw them or similar people a few weeks ago at our retail fulfillment summit in Sydney. So I think definitely in Australia it's quite a small, tight knit e commerce space, which is great.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, absolutely. So let's get into it. I loved hearing about the story. So let's take our listeners on the journey. Let's go back to how Render Start. Can you tell us how you guys came up with the idea for Render and I understand was originally focused on tradies rather than retailers?
James Fisher: Yeah. I'll take you right back to the very beginning. It started. Greg and I, straight from school, went on a bit of a gap year to Israel, just in the midst of finding ourselves and went to Israel, came back and Greg and I jumped straight into a small boutique digital marketing business that we started up where we literally just went around door knocking cafes, small retailers, asking them do they want us to do their social media services, website development. So we got a few clients on board early, learned the ropes fairly quickly. The first client we had, we walked in and we said, can we do your social media? And she's like, do you have a business card? And we didn't even have a business card. So it was learning the ropes from day one.
Nathan Bush: Why'd you focus in on local businesses and cafes and those services at that time?
James Fisher: I think when you look at the local market, they're very big with a social presence, a social, local community following. When you look at the food space, look, I jump on Instagram, Facebook every day and I see the next biggest cafe popping up with food. I want to go try. So that was probably the first market we wanted to tap into. But then it got to a point where we could really adapt our services for all markets. So yeah, we really tapped into that social media digital marketing space to kick off things. But it was really our love from for e commerce that really brought about Render. So we had mates in the trade in the diy space that were getting on the tools that would go down to their local hardware store, pick up their it's in bits and take it back. And around the same time, Uber doordash were very prominent in the delivery space, particularly in the food space. So we looked straight at the hardware and the home and hardware space as our mates. That was probably the biggest challenge I found was going into store and not being able to have all their tools just delivered from site. A lot of them didn't like that quick coffee break to go out and pick up their goods, but nothing worse
Nathan Bush: than when you're halfway through a DIY job. But I can imagine if you're a tradie and you've got to stop everything, pack it all a go down to Bunnings and get what you need.
James Fisher: It was definitely a challenge. And that brought about Greg and I first real tapping to that market. So we'd walk down to local hardware stores, walk through the aisles. We first did a bit of market research where we we bring iPads out and just ask simple questions like did you purchase more than you originally intended? How much would you pay for the delivery of your goods straight to your site or straight to your home? And then we really got to a point where we can really take this concept and offer it to customers, both from a trading side but also a DIY side. Because as you would have seen during COVID it sprung about so many DIYs just doing odd jobs around the house. So we built a Shopify website. We'd walk the aisles of local home and hardware stores, take photos of products and then load them up on the Shopify website. We posted in driver Facebook groups and pages to attract drivers. We had about 100 crowdsourced drivers on our books. And really the mission was to provide the home and hardware space with a two hour delivery offering through a single app, both for Tradies End and DIYers. And we launched that right in the heart of COVID So as I mentioned before, it sprung up the DIY space but also construction stayed open. So we saw a nice boom in sales. Actually our first one of our first orders was by a Bunnings executive, which was pretty exciting. Just proved to us this concept is very relevant and it's really forward thinking.
Nathan Bush: So did you get any feedback from that Bunnings executive?
James Fisher: We did, we did. From what I recall they received their goods in under an hour. So it was that pleasant delight. Probably something they hadn't seen before in that space. And look, we were seeing customers pay upwards of 50, $60 for delivery and wanting to pay that because of that convenience. So it got to a point where we're tapping into the home and hardware space. Why can't this be adapted into more verticals? Obviously the food and grocery space being an essential service, was already out in market, but why can't this be adapted into more verticals? And that's where render v2 really came about, where we were unlocking same day sub two hour delivery for retailers, giving customers an offering that they'd never really seen before. That choice at checkout, that convenience and certainty.
Nathan Bush: And just before we go down that path, tell us about your experience with recruiting drivers. Because that's very different to creating social media posts and developing websites. Once you start getting into that fulfillment space, what were your initial experiences with that driver network?
James Fisher: It was very interesting. Our whole sort of driver engagement process. We collided. I think it was a short list of about a thousand drivers and Greg and I would just go one to one interview each of the drivers. We did obviously the background checks, the police checks and then it was just get them going and really testing the platform, seeing how they work at the platform. That was obviously our own driver network that we were utilizing, which has changed to what the product is now. But it was very interesting. Obviously we had some drivers that did a lot of the volume that just loved it. Other drivers that were some days on, some days off. It was that challenge. But obviously during COVID with jobs being at a bare minimum, we were able to find quite a number of drivers that were able to get on the roads and really entice our customers. So yeah, it was an interesting experience.
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Nathan Bush: all right, so we're now going into render version version 2. Started off servicing tradies and it sounds like you've learned a lot along the way and you've proved the concept. What's the vision for version two of render?
James Fisher: The vision for version two of render, there's two sides. So provide retailers with the ability to entice their customers, give their customers that convenience and certainty. I think when you look at the logistics and shipping space, customers for too long have been met on checkout with the standard and your express options where you have no visibility of where your orders at when it's going to be at your door. And I think that's what we're trying to unlock for retailers. Obviously there are challenges on the daily face with retailers. They have their own challenges. But what we're trying to do as a business is provide them with solutions to bring same day delivery forward in their business. So that's exciting. And then yeah, from a customer's standpoint, as I mentioned before, it's about giving them that surprise and delight. I think customers are now expecting speed of their delivery and we're seeing a nice uptake on that. So that's the future. That's the vision. We want to be the best on demand delivery platform in Australia. That's our mission. So that's the vision.
Nathan Bush: It's a nice mission. Can you talk us through, from a customer's perspective how they would experience render through their e commerce journey?
James Fisher: So there's a few ways in which they can interact with render. When you look at customer experience, something we're really promoting is that choice at checkout being able to get your goods not just overnight, not just as a standard method, but also be able to get it delivered on the same day, delivered within a matter of hours. So in a customer experience there's many ways. Obviously when you go through a website on checkout, Render presents and can give you the options of 3 hour, same day, next day delivery. We also are building out solutions to bring same day delivery forward for retailers that can't provide or aren't ready to provide that choice at checkout through forms like same day delivery of your click and collect order. So that's on a customer side of things, from a merchant side of things, it's providing their customers with that surprise and delight. I think instant gratification in the retail and e commerce space is something that's very prominent these days and that's something we're trying to do. We're trying to give that merchant the ability to say to their customers, do you know what? You don't have to wait days for your order. You can buy it and get it Delivered straight away. And that's an exciting proposition. I think it's going to become more relevant than ever. What we're trying to do as a business is trying to bring this forward as quick as possible. So yeah, I think customers are really driving it. That's what happened in the payment space. When you look at the buy now, pay later space, customers drove that need and I think it's going to happen in the delivery space as well.
Nathan Bush: So when you talk surprise and delight, are you talking that customers get to that checkout page typically and expect to see standard and maybe express delivery, but they're still surprised when they say same day or three hour delivery.
James Fisher: Of course. And it's not just on checkout, it's actually the package at the door. Because it's all good and well to click that button and say I'm going to be able to get same day delivery, but actually meeting that with the customer experience of getting their goods at their door within a matter of hours, I think that's the whole idea of, of surprise and delight in giving that customer that new way to get their products delivered.
Greg Liebowitz: I think as well, because it is now the norm, or historically it's the norm that customers will have to wait days for their delivery to be picked up from the single fulfillment center, go through the dc, you know, all these different carriers or these different parts of the journey that are involved until there is that final mile of the delivery customers do actually have, or they did have that expectation. That's what it was like. But when we talk about surprise and delight, we're providing these tools for retailers to give customers a better experience and actually make sure that they do have their order same day, they have a good experience and from there they'll be more inclined to actually shop with that retailer moving forward.
Nathan Bush: It's about options, right? It may not be every time that you need it, but that one time you need it. Wow, it's going to stick in your head. From a last mile delivery standpoint, we're obviously seeing more and more players get into this same day, instant delivery space. How do you differentiate render from other players coming into the market?
Greg Liebowitz: It's a good question. And I think, you know, these days there are a lot of these businesses who are saying that they are providing same day delivery or they do have this network of carriers that are able to deliver same day. But what render is and what differentiates us is really this technical or this fulfillment platform that we have built where we aggregate all these different couriers and carriers. So we've got over 25 providers on our network, whether it's the crowdsource delivery providers or the professional network who have specialized vehicles, whether it's refrigerated or tailgates. And we provide that single touch point or single integration where the retailer can actually get access to that whole range of different providers that we have on the network. So what that means is, let's say I'm a customer and I go onto a website checkout and I'm at the checkout and there's rights loading. When the request is made, we'll actually go and ask all the different providers on our network for how much the delivery will cost, how quickly they can do it, and also take in a range of different factors. So, for example, the time of day, the location and the profile of the freight. And then we'll work out, based on those different calculations, who is the most appropriate carrier to fulfill that specific delivery. And I think what it means for retailers, that is that they always can uphold this guaranteed SLA where they meet the expectations of the customers. Because if you go and say, plug into another shipping aggregator or you go work with an individual partner, you only get access to that network that they provide. Whereas with Render, you get access to the full suite of carriers that we have. But also it means that we're the single point of billing, the single point of customer service, and we really manage that expectations between the merchant and the carrier. So no longer will the merchant have to go directly to the carrier, or will the merchant say to the customer, go call carrier X and ask them where your delivery is. But rather they'll come to Render, who sits in the middle, who manages that relationship between the carrier and the merchant,
Nathan Bush: and how do you make sure that you've got availability of that network? Because obviously we've seen services like Uber more recently, especially during COVID struggle with both Uber Eats and Uber Rideshare, struggle to meet the demand in the market. How do you make sure that you can meet those promises?
Greg Liebowitz: There's a few different ways that we do that. The first way is by looking at all this data that we do actually aggregate. So because we're always seeing how many deliveries are occurring in a specific region, how long drivers are taking to allocate themselves, how long it takes to deliver, we've actually been able to build these different models where our system will work out who is the most appropriate for that job, and also be able to predict things like there aren't many carriers available in this area on a certain time of day. So rather than allocating to carrier X use one of the other providers that we have on our network. So we've got that level of redundancy where if the driver assigned to the job isn't available, then we'll just fall back to the next provider and keep doing that to make sure that the customer does get their order when they expect it.
Nathan Bush: And I'll take my hats off to you because it's a huge problem to solve. Right. Like a lot harder than it is. Creating social posts and websites like solving that last mile delivery for instant delivery is a big one and we've seen many try it in Australia. And Australia is notoriously a difficult market because we are very much spread out and we only really have two big cities to service. How do you set up render to make on demand delivery profitable?
Greg Liebowitz: I think it's a challenge that a lot of retailers are looking to solve because delivery and fulfillment has always been one of those things where it's expensive. You know, a lot of retailers, they do often contribute or subsidize to the delivery fee because they're only able to fulfill out of one DC on the other side of the country, which means it has to go to the fulfillment center and then go through all those different routes. Like I mentioned before, the way that we actually look to make same day delivery or on demand delivery profitable for both the retailer and for Renda as a business is by localizing same day delivery. So what that means is let's say we've got a retailer who has a large national footprint. Their warehouse or their store should actually act as a mini distribution center. So there's a lot of the inventory in there and these hubs should really be where these orders are fulfilled out of. And what that means is that we can take a certain range of retailers in a X radius and actually complete milk run. So what that means is the driver, they'll go in there, they'll pick up a whole range of different items, they'll then throughout the day go and deliver them to customers who live in that particular node. Which means that the cost is less because they're picking up multiple orders and it's no longer a one to one like these instant sub 30 minute deliveries which aren't so profitable. There's definitely a case for these instant deliveries, but in terms of scalability we don't really think that's where we should be focusing on, but we should rather be focusing on these milk run style same day deliveries where we complete multiple deliveries within one pickup.
Nathan Bush: And as you grow is the focus on Locating communities that you can service. So does it still have that local focus?
Greg Liebowitz: I think definitely local is key. We look at one of the partners on our network, DoorDash, they say that 60 to 80% of what we actually buy can be found locally. So I think definitely local is key and it means that we can get orders to customers quicker and for cheaper. And you know, a lot of retailers or the, specifically the multinational retailers, they've got a national footprint and I think those are the best types of retailers that render should be working with or that we are working with, which is those who have multiple stores and they can use their stores as these little fulfillment centers or micro hubs.
Nathan Bush: And at the moment we're seeing on demand or same day delivery percentages of sales being in the very low single percentages of selection as fulfillment options with obviously like we said, standard and express delivery make up the most or click and collect make up the most. When you're forecasting for Render, where do you forecast that same day delivery as a percentage of online orders will end up?
James Fisher: It's an interesting one because when you look at for example the payment space and you look at say after pay, they were accounting for say 20%, I think it was 20% of all online transactions in Australia. And when you look at a checkout experience, what needs to happen in the checkout experience? You pay for it and normally you get it delivered. So when we look at where I think delivery will go as an option, in particular on demand delivery, I think it will sit around that 10 to 15% mark which is still fairly strong and it's very much going to be driven by the customer. I believe obviously the merchant has the power to offer the option but I think the customers really have to drive it. It's what drove the buy now, pay later offering and I think it's what's going to drive this new way of getting delivery. When you look at markets like Europe and America, on demand, same day delivery, it's the norm there. You expect to get your goods delivered day, you purchase it and that hasn't come around yet in Australia. It's been worked on and we're one of the players working on it and really driving the need for it. But I think customers are continuing and we're saying on a day to day basis, customers are continuing to crave it, they want that instant gratification, they want to have their goods delivered when they purchase it. When you look at categories, I think Craig mentioned it before, there are certain categories where on demand delivery suits than others for example, when you look at pet supplies or you look at pharmaceutical supplies or even the food and grocery space, they're essential services. So the uptake on that is for same day delivery is going to be a lot higher. But I still think in industries like fashion and even home and hardware, we saw it firsthand, tradies, they need their goods on the daily so I think it's going to take up a bit. Quite, quite a large percentage and I still think 10 to 15 is quite a large percentage. There are still customers that are happy to wait and that's okay. I've had to wait up to four or five weeks for my deliveries and I'm sure there's, there's others out there that have had to wait longer. But I think it's going to be a customer driven initiative is bringing about same day delivery and I can definitely see it. We'd say internally by 2025, same day delivery is going to be 99% of retailers around Australia. I think it could be sooner. We're driving that, so time will tell, but I believe it's definitely going to account for quite a large percentage.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's not that far away. We're talking two and a half years there. Right?
James Fisher: Exactly. Yeah. It's crazy to think and I think
Nathan Bush: you're right around, the experience will drive expectations. So like you said, it's like it might not be all of retail being same day delivery, but as it creeps past our fast food and our on demand restaurant services and into things like pharmacy or pets, it'll start becoming the norm as people go, well actually if they can do it, why, why can't everyone else do it?
James Fisher: Exactly. Where retailers internally, for example, standard is normally either 3 or $5, express is normally $10 or so we're seeing express delivery account for around 10 to 15% right now of deliveries. So for an extra $5 to turn that into a same day offering, it's pretty enticing. So that's where I, I see a
Nathan Bush: potentially going and tell us about Click and Collect because this really caught my eye because we're seeing for Australian retailers, Click and Collect be a really great option, upwards of 50 to 60% for some large retailers being Click and Collect deliveries. How does render fit a proposition around Click and Collect?
Greg Liebowitz: Yep. And this is one of the coolest products that we've developed and I think the reason that we did this, just to give a bit of context, is when we were talking to many retailers, specifically the multinational ones, it's very difficult to actually integrate with them because they are often, they don't know themselves where their stock is. And as a delivery provider filling out a store networks, we need to know at the time of checkout or post checkout where the inventory is so we can actually go and pick up the order from the closest store to the customer. We also found that many retailers, they do have these antiquated systems and they do have a lot of technical debt. So what we had to do was come up with a solution to still allow retailers who want to offer same day delivery the ability to do that by bypassing a lot of these challenges that we had faced previously. So what Click and Deliver is, is let's say you're sitting at home, you're shopping on your favorite brand and you decide to select click and collect. Because of that convenience and certainty, like many customers, you actually, you know, decide that you want Click and collect because you want to get it that same day or the next day and you don't want to wait, you know, a few days for someone to deliver the order to you. So you select Click and collect and you receive a few hours later or a few minutes later or even days later, depending on the retailer, you receive that message that says, hey Nathan, your order from storex is ready to be picked up, come and get it, or pay $5 or $10 or whatever the retailer wants to offer to have that order delivered to you same day or by 5pm tonight. And what that means is a customer no longer has to go into store, they no longer have to wait behind people in line, they no longer have to look for parking in the shopping center, but rather using the network that we've developed, they can actually send one of our drivers to go and pick up that order for them. And we're really finding that customers love this because they've never seen something like this before. And for the merchant, they're able to offer that surprise and delight experience that James was was mentioning by bypassing all these different barriers to entry of offering same day delivery.
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Greg Liebowitz: I
Nathan Bush: love that, I love that idea of getting that notification for clean collect and at the time it seemed like a really good idea. And then you're like, oh, not really ready to go to the shops or it won't be until next weekend. I get there if I can change my mind around that. Do customers have to re input their payment details to take up that offer?
Greg Liebowitz: So essentially what we do is we will provide the retailer script to put on their existing click and collect email or sms. So that will appear as like a button on their communication medium. The customer clicks on the button and it will already have all their information pre populated. So literally all they have to do is click show me when I can have my order delivered by. And they can either have it, you know, same day, within a few hours or even schedule it. And we've seen a large uptake in scheduling because I think it is that customers, they'll order, click and collect, say from their home and they expect that they'll be able to go and pick it up on that day or during that time. But when they actually want it delivered, they want it delivered to their work or to another address and they want to actually schedule it for a time that suits them. And once they've selected the time within like two clicks, they can pay Apple pay, Google Pay or credit card and have their order delivered. It's a super amazing experience.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, that's very cool. So tell us about the technical integrations that you've got there. You've touched on the script that you put into the email. What other integrations do you have available and do you see retailers having to implement to make the most of the solution?
Greg Liebowitz: Yep. So we've got native integrations with many of the leading e commerce platforms. So for a retailer who's on Shopify, Magento, WooCommerce or BigCommerce, they can actually install our render plugin, which means that when customers go to checkout, they see those available render services based on factors like time of day and the location. And then we've also got integrations with leading shipping providers. So one of our key partners that we've just launched an integration with is Starship It. They're one of Australia's largest fulfillment platforms where they have a range of different carriers on their network. We have actually integrated with them. So Merchants who are using Starship it can, at the flick of a button, enable Render as a same day delivery provider to offer their customers our services. So that's quite amazing for us and for our sales team to go out because a lot of what we were seeing is that retailers, they already use Starship IT or a similar platform to fulfill their orders. So that was one of the barriers that we were facing. But now because we have this integration with them and then other providers that we're working on, merchants who are existing Starship customers can actually enable Render, which opens up, you know, many, many doors for us.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, we had a great chat with the team at Starship probably about six months ago and the team at Lioness were putting Starship on. So if you're interested in Starship and what they have to offer, go back and have a listen to that episode. And obviously the options keep expanding to include Render. From a commercial perspective, how do you work with retailers?
Greg Liebowitz: It depends on the retailer, but essentially when we onboard the retailer, we look at the profile of freight that they offer and things like their locations and how many stores they have and then we'll charge them based on a SaaS model. So we'll charge them the delivery fee and that fee is collation of all the different carriers we have behind the scenes, but it's only the Render fee. And then we'll charge them a monthly fee based on how many transactions they do per month. But I think the benefit for the retailers is by working with Render we're really that single touch point so they integrate with us, they get access to all the carriers. We are that single point of billing where that single point of customer service. And we're really looking to be that outsourced same day delivery provider for merchants so they don't have to go through the hardship of going and integrating all these carriers, working with the different account managers, but rather coming to Render where they get all of that covered for them.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, brilliant. And is there a retailer that's implemented Render that you're extra proud of and that you've seen a huge change in their business?
James Fisher: When you look at our retailer fleet, there's stores with national footprints, but there's also your one day E commerce stores that are utilizing Render to tap into their local community and that ties back into the local commerce because a lot of these local E commerce platforms have a local community that's very close to their brand. So when they do promote a new offering, the buy in is quite large. I think when you look at our retailers, harehouse has been a huge one for us. And when I touched on before some of the key categories where same day delivery is super important and super relevant, I think when you look at the hair space, the beauty space, I think everyone wants to put their glam on as quick as possible, whether it's morning and night. So being able to give that offering to customers has been super exciting for them. I think it's also been backed up by that on site offering as well. It's all good and well to promote to have a same day delivery option, but to really educate that customer on what's on offer is very important. That's what Harehouse have done fantastically. They educate the customer throughout the journey. That same day delivery is an option and that's just increased the buy in from customers. So they're probably one of our proudest in terms of some of our local retailers. Literally just around the corner from us, my local bakery, Cremorne Street Bakers, they're doing bucket loads of orders. They have a very local community following that just want their treats on demand.
Nathan Bush: Have you just approached the bakeries and the eateries that you just want to eat at?
James Fisher: That's actually exactly right. It was similar to back in the day with Greg and I when we looked at some of the local businesses we wanted to partner with. When it was cafes, we looked at what food can we get our hands on as well. So it was that type of a thing. But yeah, Cremorne Street Bakers have seen a huge uptake in same day delivery. They love using our platform because it's really about giving their customers that offering of being able to get their traits and suites delivered on demand.
Greg Liebowitz: I think as well. Just adding on to that, the most exciting thing for me is seeing retailers who couldn't even fulfill same day out of a store before they started working with us. So we look at one of our retailers, Aussie Disposals, they've got a single dc. They were fulfilling only overnight orders out of there, but as we partnered with them within a couple of weeks we were utilizing their store network to offer same day delivery to customers who live near those locations. And they've got stores that are regional as well. So through our network, because we are able to service both metro regional all over the country, we were able to see customers of Aussies actually uptake our services. And that's super exciting to see.
Nathan Bush: And you mentioned before that obviously you've had this idea coming out of school, you've had your gap year in Israel where you found yourselves and then you started the social media and the website business, moving into the trade and now into rendering and you're now speaking to some of the biggest retailers in Australia. What's been the best and worst thing of being such young founders solving such a big problem in retail?
James Fisher: I think when we look at the best thing, it is exactly what you just touched on, solving challenges. We're able to solve problems for some of the biggest retailers in Australia, give them the ability to think the impossible is possible. I think that's the most rewarding thing. It's why we, we get up every day to do what we do is we love what we do and we really believe that this is one of the most relevant industries in the world. We want to give retailers the ability to offer their customers an unrivaled solution in the delivery space. And that's, that's probably the best thing. And when we look at the worst things, I think what Craig touched on before is there's a lot of retailers out there that are built on archaic systems and have legacy systems and have challenges, but I think that also ties in with the best because we're able to understand retailers a bit more. But not all retailers turn us on at the flick of a switch and we've come to realize that and that's understandable. And they're the learnings. So when you look at the worst, you take your learnings from the worst, which is that some retailers are just not ready to take that next step. But I think it's on us and it's also on customers to drive that need and drive the needle. So it sort of becomes that fomo. I think FOMO has become quite a, quite a nicely used term in the last few years, especially with the likes of the Buy Now Pay Laters where it became a fomo. I can't really build an E commerce website without Buy Now Pay Later. We want it to be the same where it's that missing out on not being able to offer your customers same day delivery.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, I think you've done a great job. Seems like you've brought in some really experienced retail heads to join the team to kind of plug some of those knowledge gaps around legacy retail and some of those relationships that are existing. How do you go about building the team?
Greg Liebowitz: I think it's about knowing where our limitations lie. James and I being young, we're still learning and we've learned a lot along the way, but we've been lucky enough to be able to bring on people who are experts in their field. So knowing where our limitations are and being able, able to build a team who actually complements and can help accelerate what we're doing and the mission that we're working towards, I think that's been really key for us to make sure that we are, you know, that household name for delivery and that retailers actually understand how simply we can benefit their business and offer their customers these services.
Nathan Bush: And it's not only the people that you've had join your team, you've had some really notable investors so far in the rating that I did before we got in here. What have you learned so far in that capital raising process?
James Fisher: Yeah, I think it's been a super exciting learning experience. I think both Greg and myself being involved with such leading players in both the retail e commerce logistics space. We've got the likes of Ahmed Farhor, who was ex CEO of Australia Post, Stephen Liu, who was chairman of Global Retail Brands. I'm on our board. The wealth of knowledge they bring from a retail and logistics standpoint is invaluable because what we're trying to do is something that is slowly becoming relevant and I think having people like that, which we look at as strategic partners to really drive the mission, drive the vision is super rewarding. I think bringing the likes of a global retail brands into our team from a strategic standpoint allowed us to really showcase our solution with one of Australia's leading retailers. So from a capital raising standpoint, we're obviously currently in the midst of our series B funding round and we're learning daily the challenges and the excitements of that, speaking on a local and global scale with some of the biggest firms in the world. So it's that balancing act of not everyone is in some love what you're doing, some have recommendations, some have opinions, good and bad. And I think you've got to understand that and work with what you've got. But I think a lot of what we're seeing is we're seeing a lot of attraction in the space because I think people are really saying how relevant it is and how exciting it is and it's really been a very strong learning experience for us. And yeah, it's exciting.
Nathan Bush: So you must get hit left, right and center with opinions, questions, directions and you obviously already seen your own vision of where render can go. Can you sum up what is next for yourselves and render? Where do you focus on next?
James Fisher: I think what's next for us is real scale. We need to drive this message. We want to be the best on demand delivery solution in Australia. That's our mission. That's what permeate throughout the four walls of our office. I think there's probably a few more than four walls but it's really driving, driving the message of it's time to change. It's time to give customers this offering that will excite them. That is the future. We're providing tools, we're providing solutions for retailers to serve the next generation of consumers that are being born right now. I feel like I'm a part of the next generation of consumers and with the next generation of consumers comes the next generation of retailers. And even if you're a long serving retailer, it doesn't mean you can't offer your customers that exceptional offering. So I think it's scale where we're obviously, as I mentioned, currently in, in the midst of our series B funding which will go towards elevating the solution and moving the needle. But yeah, it's an exciting space to be in.
Greg Liebowitz: Yeah, I think for me it's really just to empower retailers to offer these same day services and it's definitely not a one size fits all. There are many challenges that we do see because every retailer is different, they've got different systems, they've got different operational process is in store. But working with us and you know, through the different tools that we developed, we do empower retailers to offer these services and like I said, we want to make render a household name. When you think of delivery, you think of render where that single touch point and really solving a core problem for retailers for the next phase of E commerce and what we're going to see coming through the next few years.
Nathan Bush: James, Greg, thank you so much for sharing the render story today. It's been fantastic hearing it and I absolutely echo what you said James, that you are pushing the boundaries and you're leading that next generation of retail. So well done and keep it up. If we've got retailers who are listening to this today and they want to know more about render, potentially how they could start bringing on same day delivery, what's the best way to get in touch?
Greg Liebowitz: Yeah, you can check us out on Google by searching render.delivery or check out our LinkedIn or Socials and get in contact with us. Beautiful.
Nathan Bush: Thanks Greg. Thanks James.
Greg Liebowitz: Cool. Thank you very much Nathan.
[Ad]: Now given everything we've seen around same day delivery and on demand service delivery models recently, I think this is another one to watch. It's an unpredictable space but there are so many trying to shake it up right now. It's good to know what is out there here are the three takeaways I took away from the conversation with Greg and James. Number one Servicing communities, not Geographies. I got really excited personally when James and Greg started talking about their vision for serving communities at a local level. Now we've seen plenty of delivery services and other technology companies focus rollouts based on territories or postcodes, but I think the focus on communities makes much more sense. Sense to get those breakthroughs at speed and being able to utilize word of mouth and local area marketing makes a lot of sense and shows that you're in it for long term. Number two New opportunities open new opportunities. Hang with me here. With COVID we saw the explosion of services such as Click and Collect and Same day Delivery and with Render, James and Greg have not only capitalized on these opportunities, but are taking them to the next level. I really love the idea around delivery for Click and Collect. It doesn't make much sense when you say it, but when they explain it and the customer motivations behind it, it makes a lot of sense. It would have seemed crazy 12 months ago, but they've been able to push trends to the next level. Number three, age is no barrier. If you're surrounded by experience, there's no getting around that. James and Greg are young, this is their first gig out of school. But what they've done really well is surround themselves with teams, advisors and investors that plug the gaps with experience and connections. And we've seen this pattern before with guests like Brad at Refunded and Josh at Single use ain't sexy. That mixture of youthfulness and the idea that anything can be taken on plus experience brought into pluggaffs can be really, really powerful. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to add to cart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday we will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level on. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and visit us at East Suite we're dedicated E Commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to espeettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to car.
