Victoria Beal: What's this additional buy in for them? Do they feel a part of something bigger? Can this be really important as a part of the employee experience? And it absolutely can be. Learning is only valuable if you're sharing it, not just as the recipient, but if you're bouncing ideas off people. Moving forward. I just know that I've only scraped the surface of who I know in Ecom. So if you're listening and I don't know you, come along.
[Voiceover]: Welcome to add to cart, Australia's leading e commerce podcast that Express delivers all you need to know in the fast moving world of online retail. Every week Nathan Bush from E Suite and an e commerce industry expert will share the news, research and insights that you need to know to keep you at the top of your game and of course keep your customers adding to cart.
Nathan Bush: Hello to our E Commerce community. Well, this episode today is a little bit different and if I'm honest, is probably one of the more awkward ones for me. But I think it's going to be
Nathan Bush: very useful for you.
Nathan Bush: I've invited E Suite's very own Victoria Beale to join me to talk all things community building. Now the reason for this isn't just a shameless E Suite plug, which is where the awkwardness comes in, but Vic or vb? Definitely not Vicky. She's created an amazing e commerce community that I think will be of interest to you and we want to invite you into so a little bit of background on vb. She joined E Suite in September last year as E Suite's Head of Learning and she's absolutely smashing it. You might have seen that we've just launched our new e Commerce Accelerator, our 10 week course to upskill and in the foundations of E commerce and we will have specialist on demand courses launching in the coming weeks. So that's all really exciting. But the extra layer that VB has added is her experience around building a community. It really is her passion and today we're going to hear about why VB thinks it's important to connect E commerce folk in a real and a safe way. We also dive into how to develop successful communities for for e commerce brands and she has some great examples of brands doing it well. So if you're coming at it from the other side in thinking that you want to create a community for your brand, there's some gems in there as well. If you are impatient you can jump straight in and join the e commerce community. It's all available for you to do so@esweettalent.com Join eSweet Community Link in the show notes. As always, this will give you access to the Slack channel that VB talks about and invite you to upcoming events. But trust me, hang in there, hold fire on that Slack urge and hear from VB on the impact that we can make, we can all make by bringing good people together. Now, one thing is, you're going to have to excuse my interviewing style here. It was actually a really weird one for me to navigate because I obviously know VB really well, but I wanted to put myself in your shoes and and ask questions which would be new for you. So if sometimes it sounds like I have absolutely no idea of what's going on at E Suite, I do most of the time. But I wanted to ask the questions
Nathan Bush: that you wanted to hear.
Nathan Bush: All right, I am going to put my cringe at bay and press play. As always, thanks to our partners Shopify plus and Paclio. Here's our conversation with Victoria Beale, Head of Learning at E Suite. Victoria, welcome to ADD to cart.
Victoria Beal: Thank you for having me.
Nathan Bush: I mean, how odd is this? I speak to you every day and now I know and now I've got to like do it officially.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, well, maybe we'll just be a little bit more professional today. Who knows? Maybe not. I don't know.
Nathan Bush: Maybe not. Probably not actually.
Nathan Bush: So Vic, we are having this chat
Nathan Bush: because you're doing some really incredible work at E Suite and I thought it was a great opportunity to bring you in and share it with our ADD to CART community because it's something that they can really get involved in and I think it will help them a lot in meeting new people and having some of those conversations. So we're going to get into that. But before we do, let everyone meet. Victoria, give us your background. Firstly, what is your role at E Suite?
Victoria Beal: Sure. So my role at E Suite is Head of Learning which is building this new of an already people focused business but really centering that around education and growth. So. So fledgling stages which is an exciting and daunting task. But yeah, as a part of that we're exploring this concept of community for E commerce, whether it's for brands or whether for people in brands. And I think that that's where a lot of my interest lies and has developed over time because my first role in E Commerce was as a community manager at a co working space specifically for E commerce businesses. So that was how I was introduced to both the concept of community and also the pain points and the trials and tribulations of being either a founder or an E Commerce and what were
Nathan Bush: you doing in that community role?
Victoria Beal: So it was the early days of that business as well. I've really found myself in a particular niche in E commerce, which is building things with people, co creating new experiences. And that's exactly what it was. So it was about identifying where we could provide a little bit of collective bargaining power, a little bit of extra support for these businesses who typically didn't have exposure, exposure to, you know, account managers at Australia Post or people that could really help them. How do we plug those gaps for people and really get them the benefit of being a part of a collective or a community? What's the value that we can bring? And that's where my role came in, which was exploring all of that and building out these partnerships and beneficial programs for members.
Nathan Bush: Amazing. And what I love, when we were in the early stages of talking is that you are deeply embedded in the E commerce community. You've been around E commerce for a while. What are your links into the E commerc community?
Victoria Beal: I mean, particularly from that first role, I now am really great friends with some of the members from that community and still talk to them even though I haven't been in that business for quite a few years now. And I think that generally the people that find this stuff exciting are values aligned with me and my personal life as well. So I just really like getting to know people and I think the people that persevere in this industry and the people that really are passionate about it are so inspiring and I want to spend more time with them. So I used to run the Melbourne E Commerce meetup as well and I've hosted quite a few Shopify meetups in Melbourne, spoke at the Shopify conference this year. So there's. I've been sort of around a lot of the social events for quite some time and all of those social events may have been around this concept of community and building really genuine, authentic, long lasting relationships.
Nathan Bush: I'm sure there's a lot of people
Nathan Bush: listening, whether E commerce managers, marketing managers who are like, oh yeah, creating community for my brand. That's the holy grail for a lot of brands, right? Is having fans, raving fans of your brand who actually talk together and make this stuff happen behind the scenes. When you talk about the actual knowledge and the rules for creating a community. If you were sitting in the seat of a brand manager or marketing manager and thinking about starting a community, what would be your top tips for making sure you're getting that off on the right foot?
Victoria Beal: So many it's hard to know where to start? I mean, I think the great place to start is McKinsey Co. Actually had a really great example of like the eras of the way that brands connect with people. Now that it started with this mass media approach was like, oh, all of a sudden we can do ads on Facebook. Cool, let's do that. Let's just reach everyone. So you were solving for reach, then moving to solving for effectiveness, which is like, okay, we're going to throw a lot of money at these ads, but how do we make them targeted and really effective? And now what they're saying is we're in this era of community which is solving for influence. So how do we actually be really influential in someone's psyche and their decision making process? So I think the first thing that everyone needs to do is understand their why. Why are you building a community? What unmet need are you meeting, what problem are you solving? And then from there you start to be like, well, what can we provide long term? Who's going to stick with us outside the lifecycle of a customer purchasing with us? Why would they stick around? What's the value that we're providing on that social psychological level? I think that Your episode with ZeroCo is a really great example of that. About what is important to someone long term. Even if potentially they stop purchasing your product, why would they still want to be around what you stand for or the people that you've brought together? So there's a couple of like key questions you, you can ask yourself around that in early days to get a real fundamental purpose statement for your community. That is absolutely where you have to start because it has to be about an experience, not a product. So what experience are you providing for these people? And gymshark's a really great example of that because they go on these gymshark world tours, right? It's about experience of connecting with everyone they want. They share about the experience on their vlog. So people share if they've been featured in the video. It's not just about going along to these events. With wearing gymshark, you could wear any activewear brand. It's about the experience of like minded people who want to go somewhere really cool and experience it together. So that's the place I would start.
Nathan Bush: Are there any local e commerce brands that stand out to you for the community that they've built? I mean, obviously you've just talked about Xeroco. Any others?
Victoria Beal: I mean, on that ZeroCo thread? I mean, I think Dirt Company is doing a really similar thing. I think that that's another great example of someone really founder led community of her saying that this is what is important to me as a I think that software skincare are doing an incredible job. They actually just did a huge marketing campaign during the Australian Open and I think that that's proof that they're expanding, which is wonderful. But if anyone doesn't know their community story, it was really about finding this subset of people looking for skincare who were really vulnerable and embarrassed about what was going on with their skin and they didn't want to go into a clinic and expect explain their acne to someone. They didn't want to have to go out into public and say help me. So they built this really safe online space for people with skin concerns to connect with dermatologists. And that community exploded because it was absolutely servicing an unmet need in an industry that's typically very vain and judgmental. And I think that they are an excellent example of what good you can do with a brand community.
Nathan Bush: That's an amazing example. When you talk about safety, obviously you can't think of a much more vulnerable space than you need to be. And to create something where people do feel comfortable immediately is an incredible achievement.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that you can establish that safety without them experiencing your product is the perfect example of. It's more than that someone wanted to be a part of that community, but they'd never even tried your products before before. It's not because, oh, I tried their products, I love it. I'm going to stick around. And I think that that's so powerful. If you can connect with them on that emotional level, then I think, you know, you're onto a good thing. Phew.
Nathan Bush: I bet you're breathing a sigh of relief now that Black Friday is over for another year, right? Well, according to our friends at Shopify customers, they haven't stopped looking for bargains and they are going to keep chasing them all the way through 2023 as the cost of living takes its toll. Yes, that old chestnut. But Shopify have surveyed 2000 Australian customers and they found that 3 in 4 Australians are already reducing their discretionary spending and 84% of customers are comparing prices with price and value. Such a hotel point for customers. It is worth considering how you are going to continually send price messages throughout 2023 to keep your customers interested. The battle for the wallet is going to be fierce. To view more resources to help with your 2023 planning and see how Shopify can take your E commerce business to the next level, visit shopify.com a today.
Nathan Bush: So I think the hard part for a lot of communities is bridging that gap between when you're first starting a community and it takes a lot of kind of fuel to kind of get it going. And then by the time you get to kind of a software skincare or a gym shark, it's like, oh, that's a no brainer. That's this thing's going by itself. It's got such momentum. It's that hard part in the middle. Right. To keep it up and totally get where you're coming from around meeting emotional needs and making people feel seen and safe. From a commercial or a business point of view, if we've got people going, well, yeah, I'd love to pitch a community to my boss. What are the some of the commercial benefits that you see coming from developing strong communities?
Victoria Beal: It's this concept of a community flywheel, right. That once you are empowering people to become leaders of that community, it becomes less expensive as you move on because you're building these people who have co created and feel ownership over that community space. So hopefully it takes on a bit of a life of its own and that's a really powerful marketing presence. If you are empowering other people to contribute, to create content, to talk about it, to start initiatives on your behalf, you know, that's where the investment starts to pay off. I also think that the biggest pitch is for anyone that wants to feel a sense of belonging these days. It can be really valuable for your employees and I think that that's an interesting thing that businesses need to think about. About this longevity as we're coming into a stage of retaining staff is really important and that training up new staff is quite difficult. What's this additional buy in for them? Do they feel a part of something bigger? Can this be really important as a part of the employee experience? And it absolutely can be. And for a lot of businesses they should be way more focused on community and people than they currently are.
Nathan Bush: Do you think that's changed over the last couple of years? As people are working remotely, teams aren't necessarily sitting next to each other all the time. Got different emotional, psychological needs now I feel than we did pre Covid in the working environment.
Victoria Beal: Absolutely. And we're far more socially responsible now that we had went through this shared experience of wear a mask, protect people around you, wear what are we doing for the world around us? What are we doing for the people around us? We want to feel like we're a part of something really impactful and Even if you know your business is really based on capitalism being a great thing, which debatable. But if doesn't mean you can't be giving back in some way, doesn't mean you can't have some sort of socially responsible purpose. And I think that that's what people are looking for now in a workplace as well.
Nathan Bush: So let's just take the band aid off, let's talk about what we're building because, you know, we want to explain what we're building and that's the purpose of today. You came on as a head of learning and it was really exciting for us because we'd done the early stages of the E commerce accelerator, proven there was a concept, and we were like, we need to bring someone else in to actually run this and do it properly. And you came in, oh, I meant
Victoria Beal: to be doing it properly.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Victoria Beal: Oh, that's uncomfortable.
Nathan Bush: But you've already taken it to the next level and we'll talk about that later. But what I was surprised by is your passion for community and how everything kind of ties together. So in the time that you've been with us, you've already started developing this E suite community, E commerce community. Tell us what that is and how that works.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, every community manager has a different definition of community and I think that that's really important because the community you're building needs to identify with you. And so for me, a community is a group of people with a shared interest or location. Now, typically, we had found communities in E commerce were shared location. Absolutely. Or they were shared use of a product, shared use of a platform. There was something that you. That connected you to other people and connected you to that program. The issue with that is that if you stop using that product, does that remove you from the community? If you stop using the particular platform, if you move on to a different business who has a different tech stack, does that community come with you? Or do you need to maintain those relationships as really individual connections? Which is fine. It's just much more work. Right. And it doesn't expand your horizons moving forward. You have to go back to square one, start with a new community, understand a new product. There's a lot of work involved and particularly post pandemic where everyone's really exhausted by social connection now and everything feels a bit more work than before. We wanted to find a space or create a space for people that could be open to them and be accessible no matter where you are in your E Comm career. So when we were looking at does this already exist? It actually doesn't. There are a couple of e commerce sort of informal E commerce communities, particularly in Australia and New Zealand, just by the fact that, okay, maybe we go to the same conference or we see each other at this event, but there's not a real sort of safe, accessible, connected space for us to meet new people and frequently connect with these people that we might be seeing at conferences or irl. So that's a very long way of explaining why we found the need for an E commerce community. And so that's what we're building based around the concept that learning is only valuable if you're sharing it not just as the recipient, but if you're bouncing ideas off people moving forward. So if you complete a course and you go away and you just knuckle down and you could try and instigate or implement what you've used, you're kind of still doing it in a silo, you're kind of still doing it in a bubble unless you can continue talking to people and continue building on what you've learned. So learning is really that growth journey from our opinion. And I think that that's why this is a really great initiative. To go hand in hand with learning is to be able to compound what you've learned. And every day is a school day. So you might not learn from us, but you might learn from someone else. And if you're exposed to people using different products or exposed to people in different verticals of businesses, there's no end to what you can learn.
Nathan Bush: And I love what you're doing there around combining learning and sharing and both being beneficial. It's not just absorbing.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, exactly. And it's about validating what you've learned and having busting a lot of that imposter syndrome which is so rife in in any tech, not just e commerce. Imposter syndrome is there for everyone. So if you can have a safe space to share some ideas and validate what you're learning or validate what your assumptions are, that's outside of your business. I think that's so valuable.
Nathan Bush: You've refreshed your website. The new range is about to drop. You've never had more customer service options.
Nathan Bush: Hey, but take a look over there
Nathan Bush: at that boring pile of packaging boxes.
Nathan Bush: Ugh, ugly.
Nathan Bush: Time to give that some love. Luckily, Paclio is here to bring some joy to your customers. Delivery and unboxing experience. It's been ignored for way too long. With vibrant colors, cool designs and eco friendly credentials. There are no more excuses for boring boxes. Even better. Paclio is Australian owned and operated with same day dispatch and 14 day returns. There's nothing boring about that. Check out the Paclio range of E commerce packaging options@paclio.com that's Paclio P A C K L E O paclio.com can
Nathan Bush: you share with everyone how the Espeite community is working at the moment? Like you said, early stages. But what are the channels that we, that we're using to bring people together? So.
Victoria Beal: So to start with, we've got a digital and a physical space. So the digital space is the Slack, which I know that everyone's in about 50,000 Slack channels. I know that I am. And we debated Slack being the right place for it, but because it is in so many people's workflows on the daily that it kind of just makes sense to not have to navigate somewhere else for us to fit into your life.
Nathan Bush: And I think a big part of that was also not having the rules dictated to you by someone else too. I think we've seen a lot of communities on other channels, especially social media platforms. Obviously Slack can still change the rules, but it feels like there's a lot more natural conversation that happens without algorithms changing and all that sort of stuff that kind of hinders a community.
Victoria Beal: Yeah. And particularly in a time when, you know, data and privacy is so important to people. Being community used to happen on Facebook, but I think we saw people getting off it and so many people protecting their own data. I think Slack makes sense. So we've started there for general advice, banter, chitchat.
Nathan Bush: But you've done it in a really well organized way. So can you share what some of those channels and conversations are?
Victoria Beal: Yeah. So we've got a bunch of channels. Reading Room is a good example, which is where we're sharing some topical articles, books that we're reading. Anything that you think might be of interest to other people. We've got Asking for a Friend with the anonymous function, so you can come in and ask someone a question and not let anyone know who you are or what business you work for, which is a great tool I think, and is already being utilized by some people. And then we've got the members channel, which is just a really nice casual way of everyone introducing themselves to break down that barrier of water cooler chat or getting to know you. Icebreakers. It's just a nice way for you to quickly see who's in the space and who might be able to help you. There are people already having private discussions on there about building on something that someone else has shared, giving them access to what they're building on. There was a great example of someone sharing some screenshots of automation flows to AB test brochures in orders and people took that conversation offline about what they were testing and what was working for them and I think that that's really great. It's not meant to be just public sharing of what's going on. It's just a genuine space for connection and I prefer that to LinkedIn personally. And then our other space is the physical events which is really cool because I have missed physical events in the pandemic and this one's a bit different because it really is a sales free zone because physical events are fun until someone tries to give you a business card and pitch you on a product. Because I just want to be there to connect with people and catch up and learn what's going on. Stay connected, stay on top of trends, stay a bit informed about what's going on in other businesses. So this is just a social event which is really nice and I don't think those exist for E commerce. Well as at the moment so it's just a chance for people to get out of their PJs if they want to. If you don't, that's totally fine. I'm not saying come in your PJs, I'm saying stay at home in your PJs although come in your PJs. I don't know who am I to tell you what to do but yeah, we're starting them in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne and we've already. I'm already excited about maybe adding Adelaide to the mix. Maybe Perth. Yeah. Look, you're not meant to tell people I'm from Adelaide but I am.
Nathan Bush: I think Byron Bay is on the cards. I think New Zealand's on the cards. I'm just trying to think of all the places I just want to go.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, me too. I've never been to New Zealand.
Nathan Bush: Oh beautiful.
Nathan Bush: And so tell me about these events.
Nathan Bush: I mean I'm a sucker for going to an event and also creating event. We had ADD to Cart Live last year which was great fun and we've had the digital social running in Brisbane for many years which reached its conclusion last year. What are you hoping to get out of? What do you think a typical E commerce social will look like?
Victoria Beal: Well, I don't want to dictate what it is again I think this is the very much our community. I think I want to really create a space that's built around co creation. So I'm excited for what people want to get out of it and I hope people share that and come along really sort of with an open mind about what it could be. But generally we're starting with just a come and say hi and learn that I do in fact have legs and I'm not just a head and a video box. And long term, I think that it'll really grow into a number of different programs for people with different experiences. But we're starting very social and I think that that's a safe space for people who want to come and meet someone in person, but also a safe space for people who've never been to E commerce events before, haven't touched our community. Just come and meet a few people and learn about what's going on. And it's for newbies and oldies. Is everyone offended by the term oldies? I don't know, but I think I'm an oldie.
Nathan Bush: Yeah.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, I'm an oldie.
Nathan Bush: Okay.
Victoria Beal: All right.
Nathan Bush: Yeah, well, I'm offended.
Victoria Beal: Got it.
Nathan Bush: By the time this goes to air, we will have hosted three events already. Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne. They are happening on the week of the 6th of February. So we should have more idea of what kind of beast you've created from there.
Nathan Bush: One of the things that's always interesting
Nathan Bush: to me when we talk about community is your philosophy on community is very much, I don't set the rules. I'm here to guide. I'm here to make sure there's the right guardrails, I suppose, to make sure that everyone's safe, protected, enjoying the space. What kind of guardrails have you put around the E commerce community?
Victoria Beal: Bad puns only.
Nathan Bush: No, that's why I got in.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, that's why you're like one of the founding members, Nath. Okay, so yes, we're talking about safe space. What does that actually mean? Well, a community, I think, is only a community if it reflects the people around us. So communities often kind of start a bit homogeneous and they start with the people that you know, and they start with some sometimes already established relationships. But for them to really flourish, we need to be introducing and welcoming people who haven't typically had a seat at the table. So that's something really important to us. And that's why we will be actively looking for more interesting, diverse people to come and join us. Typical. Like different entries into the community, into the industry, different backgrounds, different countries. We just want someone with a different experience to come and add something different to broaden our horizons. A little bit. My big thing around community is this psychological element. And I think that that's where the safety comes from is based around Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Right. So from work, from a workplace, we get, we get banter, we get companionship, we get a level of psychological fuel that we need to exist. You know, we know human touch is a basic need. We know human connection is a basic need. What I love that community outside of your workplace adds is this sort of self actualization and self realization that it's only valuable if you're building on top of your work relationships. And I think that that's what we can provide for a lot of these people is just an extension of helping you realize what you're capable of that maybe you're not getting at work or you're not getting it, you know, with your friends. And I think that that's the real psychological safety element. And otherwise I just want to see where it goes and see who comes along from the woodwork. Because I'll tell you about to say
Nathan Bush: I just want to drink wine.
Victoria Beal: Oh, that too. But I don't have to say that. People just know that that's my brand. I just know that I've only scraped the surface of who I know in E Com. So if you're listening and I don't know, you come along me, that's the
Nathan Bush: really exciting part because we go to the conferences, we go to the big events and every time and you catch up with some great people and you see a lot of the same faces you've seen for many years in E commerce, which is always fantastic and I love that. But also just the opportunity to meet new people doing interesting stuff who might be tinkering, playing, looking in areas that you've never even thought about. I think that's really, really great connection points.
Victoria Beal: Yeah. And people who typically wouldn't come to those events because they don't have E Comm in their job title, they're not directly connected. But as you and I know with our definitions of E commerce, there's so much that is really technically under that umbrella. So it's not just for people who are an E Commerce manager or an E Commerce coordinator or a founder. It's for anyone connected to this world of interacting and transacting online.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And so the events are an open space. We always put out a link if you want to come along. They're usually at local pubs or breweries or bars. What about the Slack Channel? How do people get into the Slack Channel? What's the criteria there to getting involved.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, at the moment it's super easy. It's fill out a form and we'll send you an invitation. So we are, I'm connecting individually with all our founding members just to make sure that we're really understanding the needs of the community. That's another core function of a community, is to service unmet needs. So it's important for us to have that as a data point in the early stages to make sure what we're building is relevant and valuable. So if you fill out that form, I'll probably reach out to you personally and invite you along and encourage you to give me some feedback and share what your experience is like and sort of handhold your first entry into the
Nathan Bush: community and you don't have to take up that offer. If you want, you can just go in by yourself. You don't need the hand holding if you don't, you know.
Victoria Beal: No, I recommend it. It's really nice. But
Nathan Bush: trying to attract people into the community.
Victoria Beal: Oh, okay, fine. Do your own thing. I don't know. I don't know how to let people do their own thing. Nathan. I'm very involved and needy.
Nathan Bush: Well, that's a question for a later date. But being very involved. I have been watching on as you've gone through this journey. Obviously you've been on it well before E Suite with your past roles, but it feels like you've taken it up a couple of notches in the, in the last 12 months and you've gone on some courses and done your own research and study to kind of make sure that what you're building around community is worthwhile and serving the needs of the community. Rather than being not an egotistical, but like a kind of a business driven approach, you're actually going, well, look, what do people need? How do we make it happen? How can we just be the facilitators in that?
Nathan Bush: Can you tell us about the course
Nathan Bush: that you did most recently around bringing community together?
Victoria Beal: Yeah, absolutely. There's an amazing woman by the name of Paz Pazarski, who was working in startups in Victoria and was working with Startup Victoria themselves. And she has created a business called the Community Collective, which is herself and some other community managers come together and they created their first interactive course which was the Community Cohort. And I was in that first cohort that they ran, which I was very honored to be a part of because I think that they have so much to share. But essentially that course was for community managers or people connected to community who wanted to Sort of validate what our assumptions had been. Community management has been a really popular career path for a lot of people over the last five to 10 years. But it's definitely not been something that's really well documented or nothing that where people, people were sharing it informally. But it was never. This is the rulebook for running a community. So it was a nice way to co create this kind of guidelines and rulebook for a bunch of us. So we started off with identifying our definition of community, why we're there, what we wanted to get out of it. Some people were from really established communities, some people were building new ones. So it was a real mix of experience in there. And then they got experts from all around the world. So they had the community manager for discourse and they had one of the founders of Junkie Media who started really a cult community there and built, wrote a book called Cult Status which is amazing. And so they kind of shared their experience about what works and what doesn't. And then we dug into some really detailed stuff around using data to identify unmet needs, finding connection points. The concept of bridging, which I really like and I didn't know anything about before, which is essentially that in community obviously everyone's bonding. It's very easy for you to bond with someone who's similar to yourself. So how does a community manager bridge people who maybe are a bit less similar but still will find some value from connecting? And that's a really important piece about making sure that it's a safe space. Is that bridging concept that, you know, we, I hadn't explored before. So it was a really valuable time especially to take it at the end of last year, moving into what we're building here. I, I'm taking a lot of that really new and exciting information into what we're building. So it was. I'd highly recommend it. If anyone's thinking about exploring community for their business, check out the Community Collective. They also run meetups around the country for people not in the program. So they run free meetups.
Nathan Bush: We mentioned that the E Suite E commerce community is a slack channel and some meetups at the moment in its early stages. If you're looking to engage your team in a community because I think that's a really great point about bringing your team together. What are some of the other tangible ways that might not be slack, that might not be organized events that you can bring together your team in a more community based mindset?
Victoria Beal: I think at the end of the day it comes back down to collaboration over Competition. Right. There's so much to go around and you don't have to compete with people in a local market to have market share. So connecting them with similar businesses to yours to share ideas, to see how you might be able to ride this rising tide together. I think that there's some really good examples of businesses partnering that maybe wouldn't have partnered in the past because they're in a similar space. There's a good example of, you know, like July are doing that a lot more now. You know, typically a business where they would have just. They've had such momentum, they don't need to partner with a lot of these other businesses, but they see the benefit. And I think that again, this comes back to this community connection aspect that you don't necessarily have to handhold or direct them, but as long if you're the one empowering that connection or introducing them to people, then they'll see the benefit in being in your orbit.
Nathan Bush: You know, I loved when we interviewed Erica, CEO of the Iconic, and one of the last things we talked about was her idea of a great talent tech swap of, you know, large companies where skilled specialists in different technology sectors are able to go around and do time at different companies to understand how different processes work, different software, like to understand and get hands on with different leadership styles even. And that's such a beneficial thing for the whole community. But then the benefits directly come back into your business as well.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, and I like the analogy of the brain surgeon right now. If someone asked him, oh, how do you do brain surgery? He wouldn't. I say, this is being so sexist. I'm saying it's a he. But in my head, I once knew a neurosurgeon and he was a man. So that's who I'm thinking of. So pardon me, everyone but the brain surgeon isn't scared about sharing how they do something because they're not worried you're going to go out and do brain surgery. Right. It's like it's not. You're allowed to share this kind of information with people and empower people to be better and be more excited about what they're doing or find new ways of being efficient and productive. And I think we're definitely coming into an era. Again, back to this sharing concept of that. It's not. People aren't protecting their ideas as much anymore. They're like, hey, we did this really cool thing. You should share it. And I'm already seeing that in the E suite community. I think we'll start to See that a bit more in E Commerce post pandemic of people sharing again.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And we've talked about all the beautiful behaviors and connections that can come out of communities and I'm kind of just really keen to explore the other side of that briefly around what kind of bad behaviors, what kind of negative outcomes
Nathan Bush: can happen, you know, when you do
Nathan Bush: bring people together because the natural, it's like humans coming together. Right. It's always going to happen. Are your kind of hard no go rules when developing a community? What are the things that you cannot stand for?
Victoria Beal: I have a list and you will be on it. No, you won't be. Generally, I mean from a management perspective, it's about no one owning it. So it's not, it's not exclusive for a particular provider of a particular product. So if there was a reviews app that came in and there was someone else from another reviews app and they were wanting to be an expert on that particular area, there's no such thing as ownership. We're all leading, we're empowering other leaders, we're learning from each other. So it's not a sales zone, it's not a promotional zone. Listening is a big one. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that it's right. And all opinions are welcome and safe as long as they are not harmful. So I think that it would be unusual for you to see a harmful behavior, but it's worth saying that it's not acceptable. But generally it's a safe for all opinions, right or wrong in your view. They're my kind of two major ones. Everything else is kind of no brainer, but it's about honesty, vulnerability, authenticity, all those things that we like to think we are but maybe aren't always when we're on LinkedIn. But we will be on Slack.
Nathan Bush: Right? Okay, cool. You mentioned some of the conversations that are happening in the E suite E commerce community already. Has there been any kind of conversations that have surprised you that have popped up already in that community?
Victoria Beal: I think I was surprised that people were so open with sharing what they were working on straight away. I thought people would probably be a bit voyeuristic for a little while and just see where it was going and see if anyone interesting cropped up. But it was obviously it was very clearly people were excited and it was an validated for me that it was an unmet need, you know, because people came straight in and were like, hey, I just did this thing in my job, check it out. I think the one thing that surprised me was the social banter that when people were coming into the members channel and sharing what they'd last bought online or where they'd come from, people really connected really quickly and that surprised me. I thought maybe would people would want to get straight down to brass tacks and talk business and who's got a referral for this and which of course has happened. But the social element has been surprising to me because I really wanted it and I was nervous it wouldn't be there and I shouldn't have been nervous.
Nathan Bush: A bit of banter, a little bit of Premier League talk in there already, it's.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, that went over my head, but
Nathan Bush: we took that into DMs.
Victoria Beal: Don't worry, I didn't participate in that one.
Nathan Bush: When you. Because as you talked about you're reaching out personally to invite people into the. Into the community to start with, what have people's reactions been when you first said that this is what we've got going on.
Victoria Beal: Super positive. And I want to make sure that people know that when I say I'm reaching out to people, not from an exclusivity or a VIP element, but just in that exactly as we said before, trying to expand horizons of who's. Who's coming in and making sure it's not just the same old crew of people I grab a beer with after a meetup. So yeah, it's been really positive. Lots of people saying that they've never been to E commerce events, lots of people saying that they would love to be in the Slack Channel, that maybe in person events aren't for them but they'd love to stay connected. So I generally have had pretty unanimously positive feedback from people, particularly strangers, which is surprising as well, because I guess if you're spamming someone on LinkedIn or dropping them an email and they don't know who you are, it could go either way, but it's been really positive. And I think that again comes back to making it really important that you've got your why in the early days and you're identifying where you sit in this minefield of community at the moment because a lot of people think they have a community or think that maybe misconstrue engaged audience for a community, but they're very fundamentally different things and making sure that you understand that going in is really important.
Nathan Bush: It's nice to see strangers being nice to you for once.
Victoria Beal: Not shouting at me in the street. No.
Nathan Bush: So if we've got listeners who are thinking, yeah, I work in E commerce or I'm interested in E commerce and I'd love to be a part of this and I love what you raised there around. Hey, if you love events but aren't a huge fan of Slack, that's okay. If you love slack but aren't keen to get out of your pajamas, that's okay as well. We've got options here.
Nathan Bush: Where can they go?
Nathan Bush: How to get involved.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, I mean it's going to sound like a no brainer, but head to esweettalent.com but also reach out to me on LinkedIn or reach out to Nathan or any of the team. We're all wanting to connect with you in whatever place feels most comfy. So it doesn't necessarily have to be through the formal channels. If you just want to connect with us in some way, then that's step one.
Nathan Bush: Awesome. You did very well not to make that sound like an infomercial.
Victoria Beal: Oh, I thought it did sound like an infomercial.
Nathan Bush: That's what we're turning it into.
Victoria Beal: So I thought this was my audition for the Home Shopping Channel.
Nathan Bush: Well done. You get the saucepans.
Victoria Beal: Damn, I wanted the steak knives.
Nathan Bush: The other thing that you're working on, which alongside the community is our learning program, which I'm really passionate about and excited based on what we've experienced in 2022 and seeing people come through the accelerator, you're taking it to the next level. Can you share with our listeners where we're at with that and what's coming in 2023?
Victoria Beal: With pleasure. So based on. Yeah, as I would say that people probably saw Nathan running the accelerator last year. I don't know why I'm talking about you like you're not here, but.
Nathan Bush: That's right. I'll leave.
Victoria Beal: I think I'm taking over hosting add to CART now. I think that's what's happening.
Nathan Bush: It's called delegation. It's great.
Victoria Beal: I don't have enough time. Don't worry about it. So post accelerator we wanted to provide something for people that didn't quite need such a full course but still wanted to be continually learning, upskilling, refreshing, refining all those things. So we are launching on demand learning which will be short modules and lessons related to everything that touches E commerce. So we'll be looking at tech, we'll be looking at marketing, we'll be looking at brand, we'll be looking at finance, we're looking at all the different areas that could possibly be there, all the way from a really foundation level up to. To really niche actionable workshops and masterclasses. So it's different because it's gonna fit in with your schedule. You can do it on your own time. You don't have to sit down and do it all at once. It's really talking about this accessibility point of education, that it's accessible no matter where you are located, no matter your ability level, no matter your learning style. We will have something for you. And so that's what we're working on at the moment. We've been working on it since middle of last year and we're getting very close to launching, which is exciting.
Nathan Bush: So exciting. What courses on demand courses are you launching?
Victoria Beal: We are starting with three modules which are all built from some of the excellent content from the accelerator. So we're starting with a CX module, a business models module, and finally returns and refunds, which is the juicy one because we get legal in that one.
Nathan Bush: They get legal.
Victoria Beal: We get legal.
Nathan Bush: A triple C. Yeah.
Victoria Beal: The sexiest of all commissions.
Nathan Bush: No, it is all great stuff. And the way you've packaged them up so that you know if you can't do a full accelerator, you don't need to do a full accelerator and you just go, I need to get up to date with regulations and practices in returns and refunds. I can do it in a couple of hours, an hour, two hours and be up to speed. So we hope it makes a huge difference for some of those teams that are looking to specialize in certain areas and get their offering up to scratch.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, definitely. And from my early experience in E Commerce, I knew that I'd spent a lot of time in one particular corner of E Comm and if I had thought maybe, oh, let's look a little bit more at the financial side or let's look a little bit more at more advanced technology or fulfillment or something that maybe I hadn't touched in my day to day and I knew I didn't want to do a whole broad course. This is exactly what I would have done. So I definitely. And building it from a perspective of that this would have been valuable to me a few years ago as well and is currently valuable because I am learning so much.
Nathan Bush: Oh, Vic, we're going to have to wrap it up there. I must say this has been one of the hardest interviews that I've ever done. One because we just had to keep it professional.
Victoria Beal: And I was like. Because I'm really mean.
Nathan Bush: And it's also because it's like it's hard because I'm interviewing you about what we're working on every day and. But I'm Doing it as a third. It was weird. It was like. But I think we did a good job. I think we did all right.
Victoria Beal: It's a good exercise for reflection and like seeing it from that, from a different perspective rather than being so embedded in it. So it's kind of. And it's nice to again, refresh on the why.
Nathan Bush: Yeah. And you nailed that at the start. Well done.
Victoria Beal: Oh, thanks, man.
Nathan Bush: That's all right. So we will put all the links to join the E Suite community, E Commerce community in the show notes and on the email. It goes out on Add to Cart. But like you said, it's all on the website and we will keep publishing all events. We don't know where we'll go. Maybe not Adelaide. No, there's some good.
Victoria Beal: I know some good wineries down there.
Nathan Bush: No, we've had some incredible people from Adelaide. We've had Kelly from Edible Blooms and Andy from the Wildlife. There's a lot happening there. So I think we will have to get there.
Victoria Beal: Yeah. Well, like I said, glass of wine, let's go.
Nathan Bush: Vic, thank you so much for joining us on Add to Cart.
Victoria Beal: Thank you so much for having me. See you around the community.
Nathan Bush: I'll see you there or maybe in Google Chat or something.
Victoria Beal: Yeah, I'll talk to you in 10 minutes. Yeah.
Nathan Bush: I mean, how amazing is VB? I hope that you loved her as much as we love her at E Suite. We are so lucky. Work with someone who is so talented and considered and inclusive and thoughtful as vb. And I'm really excited about her vision
Nathan Bush: to connect people in E commerce.
Nathan Bush: And even though I thought I knew Vic really well here, here are the three takeaways that were new for me that I got out of our chat. Number one, leading, not owning. Vic shared some great tips in there around what to consider if you're thinking about building a community for your brand. And my favorite was to lead, not to own. So you might have a vision of what you want your community to do or to look like as a brand. You've got your brand guidelines, but once you launch is no longer your community, it's your community's community. So you need to keep fueling it, you need to lead it. But be prepared to change direct direction at any time based on the ownership of your community. Number two, upskilling in community. VB did a brilliant job here of showing that creating a community isn't just creating a Slack channel and inviting your contact list in. It needs to be considered, needs to be safe, inclusive, inspiring, adaptable. This isn't easy if you're looking to formalize your knowledge of community building and actually do it right. The course that Vic did and recommends is called the Community Cohort and it's
Nathan Bush: by the Community Collective.
Nathan Bush: Give it a Google and check it out if this is a path you want to go down. Lifelong Friends, not just Contacts and no, it's not a bumper sticker on the E Suite car. But I loved how VB shared how she's been involved in e commerce communities for many years now and the people that she's met aren't just business associates on her contact list, they are now some of her best friends that she probably actually doesn't talk that much E commerce with anymore. And I've had exactly the same experience. I actually love going to most industry events because I know there are friends there, not just colleagues or peers. And if you put the time in, the right people will become friends and that's what we really want in the community. And it's the ultimate outcome of being involved in a specialist community. And now finally, if you are listening to ADD to cart, it means that you have experiences that you can share in E commerce or are continually learning and eager to learn more. So I invite you to become part of the E Suite E Commerce community. We'd love to see you in there. Visit e suite to talent.com au join e suite Community the link as always
Nathan Bush: in the Show Notes.
Nathan Bush: See you in there. To get the highlights of today's episode, head on over to addtocart.com and sign up for our free newsletter each Tuesday. We will send Monday's episode summary links and discount codes for you to go next level. And if you're looking to explore your next e commerce opportunity, come and Visit us at eSweet. We're a dedicated e commerce talent agency connecting the best e commerce talent with the fastest growing brands in Australia. Head on over to esweettalent.com where you can download the free E Commerce Salary Guide and sign up to our weekly e Commerce job emails. Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those customers adding to card.
